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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

An Open Letter To Seth Davis

Dear Seth,

You know, Iowa basketball fans really are trying to move on. Honestly. There's a genuine sense of enthusiasm about the program with current coach Fran McCaffery and while the level of buy-in varies from fan to fan, most of us are pretty happy with the direction things are going. We're not eager to still wallow in memories of the tenures of the previous coaches here. But then we get a week like this, where Todd Lickliter's new boss at Miami University feels the need to trash Lickliter's old digs and where you feel the need to defend Steve Alford from the slings and arrows of disgruntled fans by painting Alford's Iowa tenure in the most favorable light possible -- to Alford. And, frankly, we feel compelled to respond. Especially when the piece is so divorced from reality.

If Travis was trying to pay Alford a compliment, he did a pretty lousy job. Frankly, it doesn't take a whole lot of guts to rip someone from the safety of your cubicle in Ypsilanti, especially if you're not going to provide your last name. You want to show some guts? Voice that opinion to Alford directly.

That's right, Travis from Ypsilanti, stop being such an Internet tough guy. Send that missive to ol' Steve himself. You know, where it will probably be deleted sight unseen by his secretary. But I digress. There's another purpose to your jab at poor Travis at work here...

I'm not sure if it showed guts or foolishness, but I decided to reach out to Alford myself on Tuesday and read him Travis' e-mail, word for word.

A-ha! To boost your credentials as a real journalist, unlike those keyboard warriors that gripe on message boards. You're not afraid to do the "tough" things in this business. You know, like read a mildly critical email to a coach. I assure you, Seth, that Alford has been called far worse things than "inept," both in print and to his face. But feel free to celebrate your "guts."

"We had seven winning seasons and we won two Big Ten [tournament] titles," he said. "If you look at the history of Iowa basketball, I think they've won four or five Big Ten titles of any kind. Yet, the perception is we weren't successful there."

To be sure, seven winning seasons sounds impressive after suffering through four straight losing seasons, but compared to what had come before Alford? Not so much. Iowa had winning seasons in eight of the ten seasons prior to Alford's arrival. They also won 20 or more games in seven of those eight seasons, something Alford's teams managed to do just three times. As far as Big Ten titles go, it's not "four or five" -- it's eight. Mind you, those were also regular season championships, a far different beast than the tournament titles that Alford won. Those tournament titles were nice -- they're impressive accomplishments (winning 3 or 4 games in 3 or 4 days isn't easy) worth celebrating -- but they're a much different thing than winning a title over the grind of 14-16 games that span a few months. The Big Ten Tournament titles that Alford so proudly celebrates also stem from a creation (the Big Ten Tournament) that debuted just two years before Alford arrived at Iowa.

Star-divide

All you have to do is look at Alford's record before and after his Iowa tenure, not to mention Iowa's record before and after Alford coached there.

I might suggest following your own advice there, Seth. If you had taken even a cursory glance at Iowa's record prior to Alford's arrival, you might have a better idea of why there was so much dissatisfaction with his record at Iowa.

It starts with unrealistic expectations. If Alford were the coach at his alma mater, Indiana, and he took the team to the NCAA tournament three times in eight years and failed to reach the Sweet 16, that could rightly be characterized as a disappointment. At Iowa, however, that was very impressive.

Ah, and now we arrive at the condescending part of this argument. Is Iowa on the same hoops plateau as Indiana? Certainly not. They're one of the top ten programs in the history of the sport. But Iowa also isn't chopped liver. It was "very impressive" that Alford "took [Iowa] to the NCAA tournament three times in eight years" and "failed to make the Sweet 16?" Really, Seth? In the eight years before Alford, Iowa went to the NCAA tournament five times. They made the Sweet 16 once (the year immediately before Alford showed up, in fact). Also of note: they made it to the second round all five years they were in the NCAA tournament. Alford's Iowa teams won precisely one first-round NCAA tournament game. So Alford's "impressive" accomplishments were, by any standard, less impressive than the accomplishments of his predecessor.

He got fired and was replaced by Fran McCaffrey, who had just gone to three straight NCAA tournaments at Siena. In his nearly two years at Iowa, McCaffrey's teams have gone 10-22 in Big Ten play.

10-22 is one way to look at his record, a particularly useful way to look at it if you want to prop up your argument that Iowa has always been a bunch of losers except when graced with the coaching acumen of Steve Alford. Iowa went 4-14 last year in McCaffery's first season, but is 6-8 this year with four more games to play. If McCaffery wins two more B1G games this year, he'd have more conference wins in a season than Alford had in five of his eight seasons at Iowa. This despite playing in the most difficult conference in the country.

Remember, too, that Alford didn't get fired at Iowa. He voluntarily left for New Mexico. Why? In the first place, he was undercut by his then-athletic director, Bob Bowlsby, who refused to stand up to the message-board crowd in Alford's defense. In addition, New Mexico offered Alford a commitment to basketball that Iowa couldn't. When Alford got to Albuquerque, he had a new practice facility and a full-time strength coach, two things he didn't have at Iowa.

First, you're right that Iowa didn't live up to its commitment to provide Alford with a new practice facility and weight room -- they didn't get around to those things until this year. That's on Iowa.

(Ed. Note: Bob Bowlsby wasn't the athletic director at Iowa when Alford was "undercut" -- that was Gary Barta. Yet another factual error in a piece rife with them.)

But your account of Alford's demise curiously omits several factors. Like the Pierre Pierce incident, a flashpoint of negative publicity exacerbated by Alford's clumsy handling of the situation. Or the fact that season ticket sales steadily dropped under Alford. (You tout New Mexico's rabid fan support, but decline to mention that Iowa had excellent attendance through the '80s and '90s.) It wasn't just "the message-board crowd" (no doubt related to those nefarious bloggers in their mothers' basements) griping about Alford -- it was former season ticket holders (speaking with their wallets), it was women's rights groups (speaking via rallies and editorials), and it was several other members of the community who were turned off by Alford.

Keep in mind that the year before he came to Iowa, Alford had piloted Southwest Missouri State to the Sweet 16. That's right, Southwest Missouri State. He is, by any standard, one of the finest college basketball coaches in America.

Any standard except one that looks at postseason success, apparently. Alford has made it to the Sweet 16 exactly once in his illustrious career -- that magical run with little ol' Southwest Missouri State. In fact, so far all of Alford's fine coaching has led to a grand total of four NCAA tournament wins in his entire 12-year coaching career. Shaka Smart won five NCAA tournament games with VCU last year. (Incidentally, Tom Davis, the man Alford replaced at Iowa, won 13 NCAA tournament games at Iowa.)

Your account also suggests that when things go awry, the problem is the fans or the administrators or the program itself (which just isn't that good, of course). Why, Steve Alford and Todd Lickliter took mid-major teams to the Sweet 16 -- of course they're good coaches. It's not their fault they couldn't succeed at Iowa -- who could? Well, Tom Davis could. George Raveling could. Lute Olsen could. Steve Alford couldn't. Todd Lickliter couldn't. That in itself doesn't make them "bad" coaches. Your general point -- that coaches get too much blame when things go wrong -- contains some merit. But that doesn't mean you should construct hopelessly one-sided and factually inaccurate defenses to absolve them of blame.

Sincerely,
Ross

Comment 107 comments  |  32 recs  | 

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Too legit.

Too legit to … not read it word for word to him on the phone.

by McNutterButter on Feb 23, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

By the end I just got the feeling that he was friends with HWSNBN.

Why call up a coach to read him some internet chatter when the coach is in the home stretch of the season (and so should have much better things to do with his time)? Why do it in the middle of “bubble” season, when sports reporters have TONS of stuff to write about (though I get that not ALL men’s college basketball reporters have the same beat, and I commend any reporter who isn’t lazy and doesn’t go with the herd on story ideas)? And why would HWSNBN actually sit and listen on the other end?

Seriously, this seems like a butthurt friend’s writing, and not that of a legit reporter. My two cents.

Also, I LOVE the smell of a good Fisking in the morning (or evening really).

"Gophers are filthy digging rats"
-one of HFMR's many amazing tags

"It's Northwestern," he explained. "A smart school."
-TMart on jNW reading signals

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Feb 23, 2012 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Great idea.

I’m doing that.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Feb 23, 2012 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Did that as well

"Well, he's not crazy enough to get thrown into the asylum. But once he got there, they'd never let him out." - Norm Parker on Matt Roth

by ManziBall on Feb 23, 2012 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

.
Is Iowa on the same hoops plateau as Indiana? Certainly not. They’re one of the top ten programs in the history of the sport.

I found this to be pretty interesting. Would like to see more about how they determined these rankings, of course.

by Xarin on Feb 23, 2012 3:10 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

very interesting

It is easy to forget that Iowa has a pretty stout history of basketball success that far predates Lute Olsen. The Hawkeyes appear in the top 20ish for every decade from 1940’s – 1990’s then disappear in the 2000’s.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Feb 23, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

One of the finest college basketball coaches in America.

Too bad we made them practice in a utility closet and share one old-timey barbell as our entire strength program, right? That HAD to be it.

"I’m not going to comment on anything beyond where I’ve been so far." - Gary Barta

by SomeJerkPoster on Feb 23, 2012 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

But we had a jiggler!

It was never good enough for One of The Finest Basketball Coaches in America (“OFBCA”). He wanted Gazelles for the entire team.

by TwistConePlease on Feb 23, 2012 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Adam Haluska: "COACH, this shit SUCKS!"

Photobucket

“Fuck it, I’m not going back to Iowa State.”

"Gophers are filthy digging rats"
-one of HFMR's many amazing tags

"It's Northwestern," he explained. "A smart school."
-TMart on jNW reading signals

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Feb 23, 2012 7:47 PM CST up reply actions  

"Shut up.

Horner never complained. Get your ass back on the Jiggler"

by TwistConePlease on Feb 23, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Quite interesting indeed.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 23, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting

in a we are truly all-time awesome kind of way. BTW this, or a similar ranking, is something Fran has touted to recruits and on the speaking circuit.

by Sky High King on Feb 23, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Probably about as effective as

Minnesota claiming 6 national championships in football.

Really? Better all-time than Michigan State?

by burglinturds on Feb 23, 2012 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

When you say "all-time" you include pre-Heathcote MSU

So yes, “all-time” it stands". Post-Nixon, no, it doesn’t stand.

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 24, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions  

As I mentioned in the other thread about this before reading Ross' excellent response

The aspect of Davis’ column that I find most strange is how he seems emotionally invested in defending Alford. It’s one thing to point out misconceptions, to separate the wheat of truth from the chaff of popular perception about coaches, but it’s another entirely to get so angry and pissy in defense of someone you, from a professional ethics standpoint, ought to keep a detached interest in.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Feb 23, 2012 3:13 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, the tone was very strange.

I didn’t want to speculate up above, but I wonder if Davis’ impression of Alford-as-a-coach is still hopelessly intertwined with his impression of Alford-as-a-player. He was an excellent player. He’s an above-average coach, at least at the mid-major level. But they’re two separate entities.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 23, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I will speculate...and they call it puppy love.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Feb 23, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I just saw that shortly after I scheduled this post.

Nicely done.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 23, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

That. Is. Awesome.

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

by Brock8144 on Feb 23, 2012 5:49 PM CST via Android app up reply actions  

Clap, clap, clap

Thank you, Mr. WB.

Das Stochern gewinnt.

by Blackheartnopants on Feb 23, 2012 3:21 PM CST via Android app reply actions  

Ross

Did you write the entire letter from your mother’s basement?

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Feb 23, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure he wrote at least part of it from Starbucks

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 23, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

No, the living room.

It’s too dark downstairs.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 23, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

But he has to clean up after himself

before Mom gets home.

"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer

by Flakbait on Feb 23, 2012 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Ross, you fucking nailed it.

In fact, Gatens is gonna print this up, shoot it from half court and swish it in the basket for three, then slam Zach Bohannon’s head into the hardwood.

/Kingsbury’d

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Feb 23, 2012 3:21 PM CST reply actions  

I’m going to yell this one more time:
ALFORD WAS UNDER .500 IN THE B1G.

by txhawkeye on Feb 23, 2012 3:25 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

You're counting reg season

Or just B1G tourney games? ;)

Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.

by BoiseHawk on Feb 23, 2012 8:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I'm calling for an Internet Tough Guy battle to the death between Seth and Travis

Tonight. Under-card. Carver Hawkeye-Arena. There Will Be Blood!

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Feb 23, 2012 3:26 PM CST reply actions  

Fuck you jSeth Davis!

"GO HAWKS!" - only cure for Hawkeye Envy

by BentNotBroken on Feb 23, 2012 3:29 PM CST reply actions  

He is, after all,
just Seth Davis.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Feb 23, 2012 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa

seth davis went to Duke, not Northwestern

by Loretta8 on Feb 23, 2012 11:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Same dudes, different zip code

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Feb 24, 2012 12:22 AM CST up reply actions  

The picture from Davis' article

makes [coach redacted] look an awful lot like Tim Matheson in a red blazer.

Executive Producer - WRNL TV

by CyHawk on Feb 23, 2012 3:34 PM CST reply actions  

I was waiting for this.

I knew one of you would easily be able to dissect his piece. It’s either incredibly obvious that he has some sort of friendship/connection to Alford, or was very lazy in writing that response.

About the only thing he got right was that the administration didn’t support Alford in regards to facilities upgrades.

They say you're a pitcher, you're sure not much of a dresser. We wear caps and sleeves on this level, son.

by isHawkeye on Feb 23, 2012 3:35 PM CST reply actions  

This falls firmly under the "don't subject straw men to the scrutiny of Blogfrica's idle lawyer class"

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 23, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Sigh. Too evenhanded.

Needs more vitriol. I THOUGHT WE WERE BLOGGING HERE!

"I’m not going to comment on anything beyond where I’ve been so far." - Gary Barta

by SomeJerkPoster on Feb 23, 2012 3:38 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

No, you always want to acknowledge one or two valid points made by your opponent

Otherwise it looks too biased and rude.

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 23, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Very true

Yet, there’s still only about .1% chance he’ll read it or respond.

They say you're a pitcher, you're sure not much of a dresser. We wear caps and sleeves on this level, son.

by isHawkeye on Feb 23, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I think maybe 5% he'll read it

0.00000000000001% that he’ll respond.

Still, of the dozens of people who will read both articles this is a slam dunk win in internet warfare for Ross.

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 23, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Seth Davis is a powerful man

as he proved by calling Steve Alford and reading an email to him. Surely he can summon the courage to respond to this unwarranted attack on his journalistic ability.

"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer

by Flakbait on Feb 23, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Seth Davis will fly into MSP,

and embark on a search and destroy mission on Ross, a la The Punisher.

Fortunately, Davis will quickly be distracted by the absolute greatness of Tubby Smith.

Because surely, there is no way a coach like Tubby, with a national title, could possibly take his current team to 9th place in the Big Ten and 4 straight losses (6 losses out of the last 8, also).

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Feb 23, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

That too

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 24, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions  

1. A writer for SI.

2. Because he writes for a respected magazine/website that millions of people read and has egregiously misrepresented Steve Alford’s tenure at Iowa and the program in general.

by mikjones24 on Feb 23, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

LMGTFY

/Ok done being an asshole. He’s a SI/CBS sportwriter.

They say you're a pitcher, you're sure not much of a dresser. We wear caps and sleeves on this level, son.

by isHawkeye on Feb 23, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

He will be on TV a lot for CBS and the Turner networks

as we approach the Big Dance.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Feb 23, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

He also implied that Iowa was to blame for Lickliter's failure

without mentioning that player attrition under Lick made our running back problem look good.

Or that fans weren’t just upset about the W/L record, they were compaining that Lick’s style of basketball was boring to watch, a complaint I don’t think I have ever heard about any coach.

Or that Lick didn’t appear to know how to recruit. How do you recruit for big time college hoops and ignore the AAU?

"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer

by Flakbait on Feb 23, 2012 3:42 PM CST reply actions  

I heard plenty of fans complain about "Butler ball" during his first year

Especially a fan base that had grown up on Raveling and Dr Tom. Even Alford’s team would run on occasion. WInning cures all. You can only run a system that seeks to limit the game to 40 possessions per team if you win. Then it becomes “suspenseful” and “well executed”. Other wise, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I’ve also heard many people compain about Bennett Ball and Bo Ryan Basketball as being boring to watch. Again, winning overcomes that.

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 23, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

this piece pretty much sums up my opinion

expect that its well written, and contains far less swearing.

Well done Ross.

I didn't order assholes with my whiskey

by White Lightning on Feb 23, 2012 3:52 PM CST reply actions  

Excellent article Ross

well thought out, well written, excellent points and counter points, as well as objective. Basically everything that jSD’s article wasn’t

by IrishHawkeye7 on Feb 23, 2012 3:58 PM CST reply actions  

I think an indication of his intelligence level

Is his discussion further on about the RPI and margin of victory:

What we’re arguing, instead, is whether scoring margin should be a component of the basic, underlying metric the NCAA uses to organize its information. That would mean, for the first time in the history of basketball, coaches will be forced to manage a game with an eye on the scoreboard.

I’m pretty sure that part of John Wooden’s Pyramid of Success was “Keep Your Eye On The Scoreboard And Make Sure You Have More Points Than The Other Team”, but I admit it’s a pretty unorthodox point of view.

Beyond that, though, there’s a strong consensus among statheads/vertebrates that taking into account point differential makes your predictions more accurate. It’s really common sense: would you rather have a team that went 30-0, winning each game by 1 point each, or one that went 29-1 and won by an average of 15 points a game?

Also, great post, Ross.

by Horace E. Cow on Feb 23, 2012 4:03 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I think considering score would be OK

but it has to be broken into groups. So like 1 – 3 points would get a certain score, 4 – 7, 8 -15, 16 or more. something like that. So there wouldn’t be incentive to just bury the other guy as deep as possible because once you hit X number, it’s all the same.

(those are just example ranges folks, so don’t get all worked up)

"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer

by Flakbait on Feb 23, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it needs to be further expanded

It is just a lot more complicated, but some metric that looks at the “average” lead over the course of the game would be useful for determining whether a team is “in control” of a game instead of just posting a big margin in the last minute. I’ve seen countless games that were incredibly close, back-and-forth affairs for the first 38+ minutes, only to have a double-digit win at the end because Team A got a small lead forcing Team B to foul like crazy; Team A proceeds to make its multiple free throws while Team B gets increasingly desperate, so at the end of the game what had been a contest separated by only 2-4 points for 95% of the game suddenly has an 8-12 point margin of victory.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Feb 23, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

This

Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.

by BoiseHawk on Feb 23, 2012 8:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

WHAT?! YOU'RE TOTALLY WRONG!

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

by Brock8144 on Feb 23, 2012 5:54 PM CST via Android app up reply actions  

I'd rather have the team that went 30-0.

They won more games. But which team would I rather have going forward? The 29-1 team.

This is a subtle difference and one I’m sure Horace knows. But I think it’s important to be correct as possible when talking about things such as this. The team that’s 30-0 is a national champion. The team that’s 29-1 (assuming they were in the same season, etc. is a runner-up. You’re never going to win an argument/discussion if the person you’re arguing thinks you’re asking them, “Which would you rather have: a national championship team or a runner-up?”

Meh, I’ll stop here. I’m not trying to argue or disagree. [<—disclaimer]

meh

by tyger1147 on Feb 23, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm going to say coincidence

But I’m sure there’s a conspiracy theory that can be drawn up to connect the points if you try hard enough.

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 23, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Must be something in the water.

I blame Jim Delany.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 23, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Speaking of timing

I love that New Mexico had lost to Colorado State the night before.

by mikjones24 on Feb 23, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

In fact

I believe they’ve lost 2 or 3 in a row now

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

by Brock8144 on Feb 23, 2012 5:56 PM CST via Android app up reply actions  

AARRGGHHH-Lil Lick is his one takeaway

The reporter pointed out that in Lickliter’s office at Miami, there is an Iowa wall sticker and a photo of his son, John, in a Hawkeyes uniform.

The 8th best point guard in the Mississippi Valley should have been the 20th best point guard in the intermural league, not the Hawkeye’s back-up when the starter goes down.

AAARRRGGGHHH

by Sky High King on Feb 23, 2012 4:14 PM CST reply actions  

I've tried like mad to block that time from my head

Lil’ Lick never started a game, did he? I know there were a few games were he got some serious run, but I don’t think he ever started a game.

Please tell me that’s correct.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Feb 23, 2012 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope, never started.

He did play in 21 (!) games in 09-10, though.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 23, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank God

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the Lickliter regime that he played in 21 fucking games in 09-10.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Feb 23, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Good stuff, Ross...

One other thing – Bowlsby wasn’t even the AD when Alford left. Barta took over in the summer of 2006. Alford left after the 06-07 season.

by twade70 on Feb 23, 2012 4:16 PM CST reply actions  

Good catch.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 23, 2012 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Ross, I think you've put your finger on what bugs me about this.

I’m old enough to remember Iowa in the NCAA Tourney. Lute’s Final Four run might be my earliest tourney memory. I remember Dr. Tom’s record in the tourney. I didn’t appreciate [Redacted], or his mentor Robert M. Knight telling me three tourney appearances and one first round win in eight years was the best I should expect as an Iowa fan, and I don’t need Davis telling me that either.

by telepathetic on Feb 23, 2012 4:41 PM CST reply actions  

For what it's worth, this is how I feel when people say that I should accept 7-8 win seasons as the norm in football.

In my mind, there is very little reason Iowa should be historically good in basketball.
In my mind, there is very little reason Iowa should be historically good in football.
In my mind, there is very little reason Nebraska should be historically good in football.

Yet, two of those things are true. I want the third to be true. People get upset if someone says, “It’s just Iowa,” when talking about basketball, but they seem genuinely okay when Ferentz implies, “It’s just Iowa,” in football.

History is a long fucking time people. A hundred years from now, or even fifty years from now why can’t Iowa be a perennial Top Ten team in football. Wouldn’t they then have an historically great football program? Expect more.

meh

by tyger1147 on Feb 23, 2012 10:39 PM CST up reply actions  

All three of those are true now.

Hayden and KF have made the middle one true as well.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Feb 24, 2012 12:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Mas Casa made the point

Going to the NCAA tournament as an 8 seed is a 7-5 season in football. I think the amount of success Davis had at Iowa is akin to the amount of success Ferentz has.

by nhradar on Feb 24, 2012 7:34 AM CST up reply actions  

It's also much easier to build a solid basketball program around 1-2 in state recruits per year

The population base of NE and IA makes that much harder to do with a larger team. Pretty much any state of several million people theoretically has the population base to have a historically good basketball program. Indeed, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. You’re historically good in one sport so the best youth athletes in your state gravitate towards that sport. You build a few good teams from local talent and then leverage that into a reputation that allows you to go further and further beyond your borders.

"Shh, I don't want this notion that I can be level-headed getting around it will totally ruin my online rep" - HoyaGoon

by PackerHawk on Feb 24, 2012 9:21 AM CST up reply actions  

/Magic Mountain'd

"I’m not going to comment on anything beyond where I’ve been so far." - Gary Barta

by SomeJerkPoster on Feb 23, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Das Stochern gewinnt.

by Blackheartnopants on Feb 23, 2012 5:23 PM CST via Android app up reply actions  

Shows how much I remember last season.

I completely forgot that VCU made it to the Final Four. Of course, my interest in the game was quite blah since…sigh…the Northwestern State incident. Really just checked out Iowa when they were on and filled out brackets.

Now the love’s coming back though, which is nice. :)

by TheCapitain on Feb 23, 2012 5:45 PM CST reply actions  

Can we also please discuss how interesting ______'s last two seasons were?

05-06 was a great regular season, undefeated at home, won the Big Ten tournament, got a 3 seed and promptly lost to fucking Northwestern State. (Fun fact, NW State has been to more NCAA tournaments than jNW)

06-07 was not as kind. Lost to Drake and UNI (not as common at this point), went 9-7 in the conference and took a team with a >.500 record nowhere in the postseason for the first time since the mid 70s.

Plus he didn’t have a winning year in the Big Ten until his fifth season! I really think the Franimal will get it done sooner than that

"Well, he's not crazy enough to get thrown into the asylum. But once he got there, they'd never let him out." - Norm Parker on Matt Roth

by ManziBall on Feb 23, 2012 5:58 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed

Hell, he might even get it done this year (ok maybe not) but of course he also inherited a far worse situation

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

by Brock8144 on Feb 23, 2012 7:29 PM CST via Android app up reply actions  

The 05-06 team was a game away from tying for the Big Ten regular season title

[Redacted] would’ve done the double that year if his team holds on to beat Northwestern. They were up 7 with about 4 minutes left, but a rain of 3’s from Michael Jenkins, Vedran Vukusic, and Evan Seacat and a poorly-timed scoring drought cost us a title that year. An incredible choke job in that game. If they win both the regular season and the tournament titles, [Redacted] might still be here.

That game and the NW State game basically encapsulated the [Redacted]/Horner/Brunner years – some excellent moments, but they were almost always followed up by a dick kick or two that negated all of the great times.

His last team was a little unlucky, frankly. Losing Mike Henderson before the season started to a broken hand forced Tony Freeman (really a shooting guard in a point guard’s body) into handling Henderson’s responsibilities, which he couldn’t do. When Henderson came back, he couldn’t handle the ball at all with his bad hand. So they were basically without a point guard most of that season.

I don’t fault them for losing to Drake – that’s the year they controlled the Valley start to finish – but the UNI loss haunted them. Not a game they should’ve lost (led for most of it, IIRC; losing late leads – a running theme of the [Redacted] era).

A starting line-up of Henderson/Haluska/Smith/Tate/Gorney with Kurt Looby/Justin Johnson/Tony Freeman as an 8-man rotation would’ve been decent. Good depth at point guard, some good shooters, an athlete in Tyler Smith that few in the league could match, and size in the post (if lacking skill). That’s competitive, which that team largely was in Big Ten play minus ass-kickings at Michigan State and Ohio State (national runner-up) and a couple tough games with Wisconsin (highly-rated that year). Certainly better than 17-14. That team had the potential for more, but a 2-4 start (with really, really awful losses early to Arizona State and Virginia Tech, with the ASU loss particularly poor as Iowa choked away a 12-point lead in the final 6 or so minutes), a late-season choke job at Penn State, and a Big Ten Tournament no-show against OMHR killed any post-season aspirations.

Potential for more – pretty much sums up the [Redacted] years.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Feb 24, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Considering the Hawkeyes' history of success prior to Alford...

…and Seth Davis’s perception of Iowa basketball as a whole, isn’t it pretty likely – if not a certainty – that Alford’s tenure at Iowa CREATED Davis’s erroneous perception of Iowa basketball?

Essentially, if not for Alford’s shittiness, Seth Davis would think as high of Iowa as a whole as he erroneously does of Iowa during Alford’s tenure.

Well, then. Isn’t that…

meh

by tyger1147 on Feb 23, 2012 10:23 PM CST reply actions  

I'll take the one on the bottom left, please.

Sorry I sold your CD Alanis. Even sorrier I ever bought it in the first place.

by HawkeyeInExile on Feb 24, 2012 3:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Very good work, Ross.

I think it is important to include that SMS (Southwest Missouri State) no longer exists. Just another program Steve Alford ruined. For the record SMS is now Missouri State.

by Carfino'sWay on Feb 23, 2012 11:02 PM CST reply actions  

So strong, so enjoyable

This is one of my many favorite things about reading skilled-writing bloggers: The Beatdown.

jtothetweet
"I’m not a from the hip guy," Brands said. "From the hip, gets you in trouble. We continually evolve, and you have to have that mindset.

by jtothep on Feb 24, 2012 10:56 AM CST reply actions  

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