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Mayhem Averted: Iowa Wrestling Advances To Semifinals of NWCA National Duals Tournament

6983837-las-iowa-city-duals-11_25_2011-18

via thegazette.com

(This is not from yesterday's meets; you can find some nice pics from yesterday's duals at this Daily Iowan gallery, though, including some excellent shots of Mike Evans' amazing 'stache.)

Heading into Sunday's Ames regional, there wasn't a lot of doubt about the most likely outcome: Iowa advancing to the semifinals of the NWCA National Duals Tournament. They already had lopsided dual meet wins over three of the teams in the regional (UNI, Iowa State, and Wisconsin) and, on paper, appeared to be too much for either Virginia Tech or Oregon State. If Vegas set odds on college wrestling (and, um, they don't), Iowa probably would have been something like a -800 favorite to advance to the semis. And, indeed, they proved to have too much firepower for either Virginia Tech or Oregon State.

After receiving a first round bye, Iowa blitzed a Tech team that had narrowly escaped UNI (20-17) in the first round. Their 31-3 win included four major decisions and the lone loss was (where else?) at perennial problem spot, 197 lbs. Tech had just three ranked wrestlers in their lineup (Devin Carter at 133, Zach Neibert at 141, and Peter Yates at 165) and Iowa beat all three, the latter two with bonus point victories. Unlike Tech, Oregon State at least had a plausible route to beating Iowa: win the matches they were favored in (149, 197, HWT), pull an upset, win the swing matches (141, 184), and avoid conceding bonus points. They were successful in the first two parts of that plan (they won all three matches at 149, 197, and HWT) and grabbed an upset win (Pena's dominant major decision over St. John), but they failed in the other two parts: Iowa won both swing bouts and picked up a pair of tech falls (at 133 and 174). So Iowa does what was expected of them: win the regional and move on to next Sunday's final four in Stillwater, OK.

#5 Iowa (12-3) 31, #23 Virginia Tech (8-5) 3
125: #1 Matt McDonough MAJ DEC (16-5) Erik Spjut (Iowa 4-0)
133: #4 Tony Ramos DEC (3-2) #1 Devin Carter (Iowa 7-0)
141: #6 Montell Marion MAJ DEC (13-2) #19 Zach Neibert (Iowa 11-0)
149: Michael Kelly DEC (2-1) Nick Brascetta (Iowa 14-0)
157: Nick Moore DEC (5-2) Matt Stephens (Iowa 17-0)
165: #8 Mike Evans MAJ DEC (9-0) #7 Peter Yates (Iowa 21-0)
174: #9 Ethen Lofthouse MAJ DEC (12-3) Chris Moon (Iowa 25-0)
184: Vinnie Wagner DEC (9-2) John Dickson (Iowa 28-0)
197: Nick Vetterlein (?) DEC (11-7) Tomas Lira (Iowa 28-3)
HWT: #14 Bobby Telford DEC (4-2) Chris Penny (Iowa 31-3)

#5 Iowa (13-3) 22, #18 Oregon State (10-3) 14
125: #1 Matt McDonough DEC (7-2) Pat Rollins (Iowa 3-0)
133: #4
Tony Ramos TECH FALL (24-8, 7:00) Garrett Drucker (Iowa 8-0)
141: #6
Montell Marion DEC (6-4 SV) #4 Mike Mangrum (Iowa 11-0)
149: #16
Scott Sakaguchi DEC (8-3) Michael Kelly (Iowa 11-3)
157: #18
R.J. Pena MAJ DEC (9-1) #5 Derek St. John (Iowa 11-7)
165: #8
Mike Evans DEC (4-0) Joe Latham (Iowa 14-7)
174: #9
Ethen Lofthouse TECH FALL (21-6, 7:00) Cody Weishoff (Iowa 19-7)
184:
Vinnie Wagner DEC (7-6) Ty Vinson (Iowa 22-7)
197: #17
Taylor Meeks MAJ DEC (14-3) Tomas Lira (Iowa 22-11)
HWT: #5
Clayton Jack DEC (5-3) #14 Bobby Telford (Iowa 22-14)

Star-divide

A few weight-by-weight thoughts...

125: Two ho-hum wins for McD. It was disappointing that he couldn't get bonus points in the OSU match, but he seemed to spend most of the match practicing his ability to turn guys with a chicken wing hold (watch out, Bob Backlund!). He just couldn't quite get the turn on Rollins. It might have been wiser to just run a takedown clinic on Rollins to guarantee at least a major decision.

133: Speaking of takedown clinics... that's precisely what Tony Ramos did to Garrett Drucker, taking him down early and often in their match before securing a nearfall at the very end of the match to get the tech fall. It was a brilliant performance against a clearly overwhelmed opponent. His earlier match with Carter was a much cagier affair, but that was to be expected with Carter being a top-ranked guy and already having a win over Ramos this season. Tony managed to get the decisive takedown this time, though, and avoided Carter's own takedown attempts. Carter getting an escape with less than ten seconds remaining in the second period was disappointing, though -- in a close match, it's important not to give away cheap points like that.

141: A fine day of work for Marion, honestly. He blew past his first opponent after a slow start and, somewhat unexpectedly, looked aggressive and energetic against the highly-ranked Mangrum in his second bout. Mangrum was able to get the first takedown of the match, but Marion continued to push the pace and got a key takedown in the third period and the winning takedown in sudden victory. There were also some highly entertaining scrambles and it was, all in all, a very good match and a very solid win for Marion. If he continues to wrestle like this the rest of the year, we'll have very little to complain about.

149: More of the same from Mike Kelly. He edged a narrow win over a lesser opponent but was overmatched against a higher-ranked opponent. Right now, Kelly really does seem like essentially Vinnie Wagner minus 40 points: great effort but not enough skill to win matches when effort alone won't do the job. He is just a redshirt freshman, though, so hopefully greater skill will come with more experience.

157: A decent (but not eye-opening) win from Nick Moore kicked things off for Iowa at this weight, but the headline story was Derek St. John's miserable showing in the OSU match. He looked nothing like himself, easily conceding takedowns and getting ridden like a dimestore pony (Pena had over five minutes of riding time in the match). One of DSJ's strengths has always been his ability to give opponents his leg, but use his defense and scrambling ability to both avoid conceding points and score points himself. Between his injured leg and his lack of match fitness (he's looked gassed every time he's seen the mat lately), he doesn't seem to be able to do that at all, which leaves him severely limited. There's some scuttlebutt on the Iowa message boards that DSJ is going to shut down for the rest of the season and work on healing up for next year, which is probably the wisest course of action. In his current state, he's just too limited to offer much to the team and it's not worth jeopardizing his long-term future. Hopefully Nick Moore can surprise us at 157 the rest of the way.

165: A bit of a tale of two meets for Mike Evans. In the first meet, he picked up his third-straight bonus point win over a ranked wrestler (and may have had his third-straight pin if not for a questionable "potentially dangerous" call), which is the good news. The bad news is that Evans looked listless and lethargic in this second match, a sub-par 4-0 decision win over a guy who was 1-10 entering the match. Evans should be tearing guys like that apart, frankly. I don't know if he was gassed from the earlier match (if so, he really needs to get his conditioning in order, because wrestling multiple matches in one day is business as usual at Big Tens and NCAAs) or if he didn't take Latham seriously, but he needs to be sharper than he was. The lack of bonus points didn't hurt Iowa here, but bonus points will be vital in all of Iowa's remaining events. At this stage of the season, you aren't going to see too many guys who are 1-10, so you need to take advantage of them when you do.

174: It's not often this year that I would have said that the rest of the team would have been well-served to take a page from Ethen Lofthouse's playbook, but it would have been accurate on Sunday. Lofthouse took care of business with a pair of lopsided wins, a major decision against Virginia Tech and an ultra-aggressive tech fall against Oregon State. Neither opponent that Lofthouse beat down was especially challenging, but hey, neither were the OSU guys that McD and Evans beat and they didn't get bonus points for the team. It's nice to see Lofthouse wrestling with so much confidence and aggression; fingers crossed that he can keep it up next weekend, when the going gets much tougher.

184: A 2-0 weekend for Vinnie Wagner? That's cause for celebration. Like Lofthouse, he wasn't facing the greatest competition, but he still managed to get the job done. His win against OSU officially clinched the dual for Iowa and featured a nice comeback from Wagner, which highlighted his best attribute: that non-stop motor. If this was indeed Vinnie's swan song in the Iowa lineup (Gambrall is expected to be back at 184 next weekend and for the remainder of the season), it was very satisfying to see him go out with two wins. Vinnie's far from the best wrestler on the Iowa team, but he's certainly one of the easiest to root for.

197: This weight just makes me sad. I have no further comment.

HWT: A 1-1 weekend for Telford, which is not terribly surprising given the opponents he was facing. He beat the unranked Penny but came up short against the highly ranked Jack. So it goes. Telford seems to be lacking confidence in his offense -- as well as the strength to finish a lot of his shots. Hopefully he's able to get stronger this off-season.

NEXT: Iowa faces Minnesota next Sunday at 2pm CT in Stillwater, OK in the semifinal of the NWCA National Duals. The winner of that semifinal will face the winner of the Illinois-Oklahoma State semifinal in the finals at 6pm CT later that evening.

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It's almost like the NCAA is already in charge of it.

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Feb 13, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Indeed.

I’ve seen speculation that the reason it’s in Stillwater is that John L. Smith requested that as a concession to participate at all in the event, which wouldn’t surprise me. Definitely a disappointing and frustrating decision, though.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

If that is the case

I am really, really disappointed tOSU didn’t beat OSU. I have no idea why anyone would agree to that stipulation.

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Feb 13, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think it's so much of a decision as it is...

that’s just the format of the tournament? They’re the #1 ranked team in the land, they get the home-mat advantage. If they would’ve lost this weekend and not made the semi’s, I believe the venue would’ve changed to the next highest seed, no?

by hawktalker on Feb 13, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

That's essentially the story they're giving now.

If that was always the case, though, they probably should have made it clear earlier in the process.

I also think prioritizing “home-mat advantage” over potential profits and exposure (particularly when their ultimate goal is to get NCAA sanctioning) is pretty short-sighted.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 14, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Iowa's had a great recruiting class already and I'm not even sure what weight this kid is...

But Gunnar Wolfensperger? Yeah, I’d make room for a name like that.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:18 PM CST reply actions  

He is out of Denver-Tripoli, right?

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I think so, yeah.

He has an older brother named Levi who’s at UNI now.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Gunnar is a tough little dude

Don’t know if he is better than his brother was though.

Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.

by benvious on Feb 13, 2012 9:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Gunnar didn't qualify for state this year.

But, to be fair, he was in the toughest district in the state in Class 2A. Expect the guys who beat him to be at or near the top of the podium in Des Moines this week.

by McNutterButter on Feb 14, 2012 10:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

He's also just a sophomore

And to clarify, he won the state title at 112 last year and is at 125 this year. He didn’t qualify because he didn’t make weight for districts – not because he got beat.

Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.

by benvious on Feb 14, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait, that was last year I think

Ignore me

Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.

by benvious on Feb 14, 2012 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

TV

Any word on televising of this event? The stupid stream didn’t work for me so I was only able to hear audio and gave up after a bit. It’d be nice if this were on TV. I would think BTN would have it since 3 of the 4 teams are B1G.

Also, what are your thoughts on Illinois beating Cornell, Ross? That was a surprise to me considering their high ranking in both dual meet and tournament. How close was that match?

by stargate125645 on Feb 13, 2012 2:19 PM CST reply actions  

No word on TV.

It would have had a much better shot of being on BTN if it was being held at a B1G arena. Being at Oklahoma State’s arena will probably nix that option. Hopefully the LiveSportsVideo stream will again be available. That worked fine for me, although I know other people had some issues with it.

Illinois won 19-16 — full breakdown here. It was a little bit of a surprise, although in my preview I thought that was the one regional where the top seed was vulnerable and that we could see an upset. Illinois is a tough team (they gave us everything we wanted back in December). I don’t know that they really pulled off many upsets in the dual — they matched up well with Cornell, took advantage of their opportunities, and got a few bonus points (tech fall at 133). They got a little lucky in the fact that they were able to move a 197 guy up to HWT and still get a win, I guess.

I do wonder if Cornell’s dual meet ranking wasn’t a little inflated because of the competition they face. As we know all too well, Big Ten teams tend to beat each other up and there’s no doubt that the B1G dual meet season is tougher than the EIWA dual meet season. Put Cornell in the B1G and they might well have another dual meet loss or two.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Is Dake injured?

He didn’t go in the semis, just wondering.

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Feb 13, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

He reinjured himself, it sounds like.
Then stepped up Cornell’s two-time national champion junior Kyle Dake, ranked No. 1 in the country at 157-pounds and undefeated in 26 bouts, who after appearing to reaggravate an arm injury, labored to a 6-4 decision over sophomore Jackson Morse to get Cornell within four points. Morse scored a takedown of Dake in the final seconds of the bout, marking the first offensive points Dake has yielded all this season.

That is fucking insane.

Also, it’s such a goddamn shame that DSJ is hurt this year, because if Dake isn’t full-speed, 157 is wiiiide open. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised to see jNW’s Welch win it, which… ugh.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Why Stillwater? Sayeth the NWCA...
“It was a very difficult decision,” said NWCA executive director Mike Moyer. “We had discussions among our executive committee. What it really boiled down to is that we felt the fairest way of doing it was to award it to the highest-seeded team. In this case, Oklahoma State had beaten both Iowa and Minnesota during the year.”

According Moyer, financial ramifications were also taken into account.

(via)

The “top-ranked” thing seems like a cover to make their decision seem credible. The “financial ramifications” line makes little sense unless they decided that rewarding the highest-seeded team was more important than maximizing the profit potential of the event. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone — even people in Stillwater — who wouldn’t admit that the event would make more money if it was held in Iowa or Minneapolis.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:31 PM CST reply actions  

Wait a sec..

Wasnt Stillwater selected as the site for this event long before the Iowa-Okie State meet a couple weeks back?

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

The finals?

No. The site of the finals wasn’t announced until last night.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

That's funny..

because they were talking about Iowa going to Oklahoma yesterday during the radio broadcast…

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

They were, because they were assuming it was going to be held in Stillwater based on things they'd heard.

It was not made official until last night.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

That's Crap!

Especially considering that Oklahoma St was awarded the victory by tie breaker rules. To suggest they beat Iowa is a misnomer at best. Having it in Iowa City would have significantly cut travel costs for 3 of the teams as well; hell, even having it in Minneapolis or Urbana would have cut travel costs more than what they will be for Stillwater. Furthermore, with three B1G teams it should be on a B1G mat – give credit to the conference that supports the sport! There are more reasons to have it anywhere but Stillwater than there are to have it in Stillwater.

by stargate125645 on Feb 13, 2012 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

By the Way...

I realize you had to have submit a bid apparently, but my points still hold true – especially considering their praise for Minnesota’s support for the tournament.

by stargate125645 on Feb 13, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Not to mention

Of the four winners, which is the quickest, easiest city to get to. I’ll give you a hint: it sure as hell isn’t Stillwater.

Bethany: Were they sent to Hell?
Metatron: Worse. Wisconsin. For the entire span of human history.

by kurthy on Feb 13, 2012 7:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I know UNI put a bid in for the finals

And I thought a neutral site would probably be the best option anyway. Not only is it neutral, but it’s also in a more geographical center of the four schools.

by McNutterButter on Feb 14, 2012 10:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Anyone got a clue

on WTH is goin on with Bobby Telford? This kid was supposed to be some huge talent..and since the Midlands..its like he’s not even out there trying…

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 2:32 PM CST reply actions  

He is a RS freshman,

wrestles in the weight class where people can be 20+ pounds heavier and it’s his first year. He will come around, it is just going to take some time.

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Feb 13, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

No.. I dont think that's it..

Telford was dominating people in the early part of the season…then he took that tough loss at the Midlands finals…and since then he’s basically been goin through the motions. The aggressiveness is gone…and that drives Brands nuts…

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

He apparently got his jaw messed up pretty good at Midlands.

I don’t know if that’s had an impact on him or not. He definitely doesn’t look like the same wrestler out there, which is unfortunate.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he came in thinking he was a world beater

and then he got beat and its shaken his confidence a bit. this is his first year as a starter, he will have a lot of time to get better.

its not like he is losing to no-names either. not every RS Freshman is Evans. Give him a year to get stronger and get his mind together and see where he is next year.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 13, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately,

the Hawks can’t afford to do that this year. The upper weights are where Iowa is weakest right now. We already knew that 184/197 were going to be problematic this year…however, Telford was supposed to be “the guy” at HWT and big things were expected out of him.

We’re in the post-season now..after next week—got the B1G’s and then NCAA’s right around the corner..and iowa needs every single point it can get from the upper weights. They can’t afford a Bobby Telford losing matches like he did on Sunday and hope to win another NCAA title.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Realistically, our team title hopes were torpedoed by Gambrall's offseason injury and DSJ's in-season injury.

Expecting a RS Freshman heavyweight to come in and help fill that void is pretty tough.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree..

Telford’s had nearly 2 years in in the wrestling room to prepare, to get strong, etc..

Hell, Ross—Telford posted a 22-4 record last year wrestling unattached, had a 16 match winning streak, and won the FILA Junior nationals..

Point being—if he wasn’t ready to contribute this year..Brands wouldn’t have put him out on the mat. Its up to Telford to execute..and he’s not doing it.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Hell, Ross—Telford posted a 22-4 record last year wrestling unattached, had a 16 match winning streak, and won the FILA Junior nationals..

Do you think I’m not aware of this accomplishments? The quality of the guys he beat last year was not exactly stellar. Winning the FILA Junior Nationals is a nice feather in his cap, but it doesn’t directly mean that he’s going to dominate at the college level.

The general rule in college wrestling is that it’s easier for freshmen to make an impact at lower weights than upper weights, where competitors have often had several years of weight-training and experience against fellow big guys. That seems especially relevant for a guy like Telford, who isn’t a more traditional “big” heavyweight. Telford’s absolute best case scenario this year was probably to duplicate Tony Nelson’s season last year at Minnesota — Nelson was a fringe All-America (7th or 8th).

Is Telford having a disappointing run of late? Yes. Is he still our best option at heavyweight? Probably — I haven’t seen anything to indicate that Rasing would be doing any better. My point is that Bobby Telford was not, is not, and will not be the difference between Iowa winning or not winning a national title this year. It would have been nice to get solid points out of him and for him to make an All-America run, but it was by no means guaranteed, especially at a weight that’s pretty loaded. Iowa’s national title hopes rested on returning guys who placed highly last year duplicating (or improving upon) those performances this year. DSJ was top-4 last year. Gambrall was top-3. Gambrall may or may not be able to duplicate that performance this year. DSJ definitely won’t.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Even Mocco took a few years to win a title

and wasnt he seen as the second coming in heavyweight form when he came to Iowa?

Telford will be good, as fans we just need to be patient. he has talent and he showed that when he won the FILA tournament. but what we seem to forget is that that was against other younger guys, not 21 and 22 year olds who are 270 pounds with 5 years of experience and weightlifting under their belts.

give him a few more years to settle the nerves, get the experience and the strength, i think he has what it takes to win a title his Junior and/or Senior year.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 13, 2012 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Try again..

Mocco placed 2nd his freshman year in 02, won a title in 03, redshirted after his transfer to OSU, and won a 2nd title in 05.

The way Telford is wrestling right now..he’s going to be lucky to get an All-American finish at NCAA’s. He’s got to raise his game and time’s slippin by fast.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

didnt he win his title as a junior?

well whatever, hes still a freshman. acting like nebraska football fans isnt going to make his progress go any faster

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 13, 2012 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

This
acting like nebraska football fans isnt going to make his progress go any faster

He has plenty of time to improve.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Feb 13, 2012 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Mocco had to

sit out his junior year since he transferred.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure what your argument is here

Is it that Brands hasn’t done a good job coaching these guys? Is it that they should be wrestling better? I would agree with this last point, though it doesn’t negate the fact that the Iowa lineup has faced some significant adversity this season.

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

No one denies

that this team has faced adversity.. However as Brands has famously said.. “are they going to poop their pants or are they going to get tough”.

Right now..there are weights on this team that aren’t wrestling up to their ability. The weights that Iowa is solid at—needs those guys to step up and be scoring bonus points, rather than winning 5-4 decisions by the skin of their teeth.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

and sometimes it doesn't matter how tough you get

I rarely expect bonus points out these guys. It is tough enough to win most of the time.

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Cmon now..

This is a team that spent a good part of the season ranked at #1..there is absolutely no reason to believe that an NCAA title is able to be achieved with the people that are in this lineup—IF they wrestle up to their abilities..which, has been the biggest problem for Iowa at times this year.

I hear what you’re saying about DSJ and Gambrall. Personally, I think Brands made a mistake in moving Gambrall up to 197..he simply wasn’t prepared for it physically—and it showed. Brands would have been better off giving Lira the mat time. Gambrall was a proven commodity at 184 and instead the Hawks ended up with liabilities at 184 AND 197.

As for DSJ—if he’s going to shut it down for the season..that’s unfortunate, however Nick Moore showed a lot of people something this weekend.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Brands didn't move Gambrall up to 197

the concussion problems did.

They were ranked #1 based off of what was perceived to be a strong lineup at the beginning of the season. They lost to the toughest opponents they faced and looked awful against a decent Ohio State team.

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes..

the concussion issues played a part, but Brands also felt that Gambrall could compete and be successful at 197.

It was an experiment that went on far too long in the season and should have ended probably after the Midlands.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Twelve pounds isn't an easy drop in the middle of a season

The kid has to want to lose the weight

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Rankings in wrestling are such bullshit.

They give us something to talk about and a broad way of comparing guys, but at root they’re no better at proving anything than rankings in college football.

InterMat had them ranked #1 for so long because their team rankings are based on their individual rankings corresponding to NCAA tournament finishes. That included DSJ being ranked at #2 (so an NCAA finalist) and Gambrall being ranked at #3 (so a high All-America finish) at their respective weights. Once they lost or otherwise showed that they weren’t actually going to be able to compete at the expected level, Iowa’s team ranking (and national title hopes) took a huge blow.

An Iowa team comprised of healthy, fit versions of McD, Ramos, Marion, DSJ, and Gambrall is a legitimate national title contender. That’s the team we thought we were getting at the start of the season. That isn’t the team we’ve had all season. It’s not the team we’ll have in March, either. McD, Ramos, and Marion can’t do more than make the finals/win titles — which has been the expectation for them since day one anyway.

So that means we need to make up points somewhere else. But where? Kelly was never a guy who was going to make an instant impact in the lineup, let alone wrestling down a weight. Nick Moore never expected to wrestle at 157 this year and while I’m disappointed he hasn’t shown more already (he certainly seemed to have the talent to be able to make an instant impact), I can’t say I’m surprised. Evans has been coming along pretty well after a few rough spots at Midlands or in the tOSU dual, and he’s starting to pick up the wins over ranked guys which give you legitimate reason to think he can make a run at, say, a top-4 finish at NCAAs. Lofthouse has been inconsistent for the past two years and has few wins over top guys. But what are his capabilities? Low All-America? Two of his three matches with Ruth have been blowouts and he’s struggled enough against other top-10 guys that at this point I wouldn’t say he’s any better than a low All-America candidate. We knew 197 was going to be a black hole and the Gambrall situation has made 184 a cluster, too. Telford had a nice resume entering the year and did well in December, but a lot of that was built on the backs of lesser competition.

Getting back to the Lofthouse point — what are their capabilities? Gambrall and St. John had/have proven bona fides — they’ve beaten several top wrestlers and did well at the NCAA Tournament last year. That allowed us — and ranking services — to have confidence in their abilities for this year. But Kelly? Moore? Evans? Lofthouse? Telford? Outside of Evans, who seems to be starting to live up to his recruiting hype and is picking up some nice wins, there isn’t any tangible belief to expect these guys to be more than low-level All-America candidates this year and in some cases (Kelly) that’s a huge stretch. And that just isn’t enough to make up for the points lost by DSJ (and potentially Gambrall).

As far as the Gambrall situation… I would wager that you, me, and everyone else in this thread know far less about the situation than Gambrall and Brands do. I haven’t been privy to their conversations nor do I know what Gambrall’s doctors told him; without that information, I’m not going to cast any further judgment on the situation. The way things have played out is frustrating, but sometimes shit happens.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 5:56 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

In fairness to Moore

he has wrestled quite a bit better since he got his cut under control. I think his lack of finish on shots had a lot to do with struggles with his weight.

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess.

He looked good against the totally overmatched Minny kid and I didn’t get to see much of his match yesterday. This weekend he’ll get the Minny kid (or the other Minny kid, Zilverberg, who doesn’t appear to be any better) and then either White or the Illinois kid (Morse?). He needs to start picking up some wins.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah

He has shown some flashes in some of his loses. I think he is better than he has shown. I am excited to see how these young guys respond when they get to tournament time. I am not expecting a big team finish, but I am hoping for some positive individual results.

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

There is absolutely nothing here that I can disagree with

"He lowballed us and said: 'Take it or leave it. If you don't take our offer, you are rolling the dice.' I said: 'Consider them rolled.' " - Jim "Huge Brass Balls" Delaney

by ClaybornSmash on Feb 14, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Jeez.

Wagner is going to be one hell of a ripped doctor.

Twitterz: @EnergizerHawk

by EnergizerHawk on Feb 13, 2012 2:56 PM CST reply actions  

YOU SURE YOU WANT A SECOND OPINION, BRO?

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

So Ross

next year at 141 and 149, who do you think will take the spots?

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 13, 2012 4:21 PM CST reply actions  

I think Dziewa takes a spot

unless the Ballwegs start wrestling better. Maybe Carew figures some things out.

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Dziewa is your

likely 141 next year…however, it makes you wonder why they didnt consider moving him up to wrestle at 149 this year, especially considering Mike Kelly was wrestling last year at 157 and 165 even…that’s a lot of weight to have to cut down to get and stay at 149.

by FlyingDutchman1 on Feb 13, 2012 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Dziewa is good

he also very recently got pretty dominated by M. Ballweg at the DuHawk open

i think it could be either one honestly. i think M. Ballweg is underrated and Dziewa a bit overrated, but i think either one will be a top 10 141 pounder, especially since alot of the best 141 guys are leaving after this year.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 13, 2012 6:01 PM CST up reply actions  

It is going to boil down to who can perform under the lights

Jake and Mark Ballweg have not done so well this year when they wrestle varsity, despite being some pretty talented guys.

It is like climbing a high mountain and finding nothing at the top except a restaurant where they sell ginger beer, surrounded by fog but equipped with wireless.

by Lycurgus on Feb 13, 2012 6:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Not Ross, but

you have to think Dziewa, the Ballwegs, Grothus, and Carew will be the leading candidates for those two spots. The class coming in is killer again, but I think all of those guys redshirt save the upper weights (the kid that’s down in the Springs – blanking on his name right now – seems like a good bet to start right away).

I love Mike Kelly, but I think the cut to 49 might be a bit too much for him. He’s a great motor guy and tries hard – he’s a great guy to have on your team and he’ll do anything to make the team better, no question – but I think it’s a weight class he just can’t make the cut to and be successful. It’s kind of like Morningstar when he was the guy at 57. He could make the cut, but he just wasn’t really effective there. Had no motor.

Carew’s the big question mark – he’s talented, no doubt, but I don’t know if his head is in the game.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Feb 13, 2012 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope Burak can be a good option from day one.

I’m not sure I can take another year of Lira or a bulked-up Fahler.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

depends on how bulked up Fahler can get

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 13, 2012 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

True, he could surprise.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 6:22 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the guy

If he can step in next year and man the 97 spot, that’d be a big plus. I think he’s spent a year at the Olympic facilities in the Springs, so he’ll be 2 years removed from high school, which is also a big plus.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Feb 14, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Hopefully Carew is healthy, physically and mentally, and can man 149.

It sounds like he’s the most talented guy we have there. If not him, then probably either Jake Ballweg (if he shows better than he did earlier this year) or Mike Kelly (if the cut to 149 is doable for him and he can get some offense going). Grothus will be in the mix, too.

I think it will be either Dziewa or Mark Ballweg at 141. Ballweg looked pretty damn good there prior to Marion’s return last year, although it’s disappointing that he’s struggled some there this year. He has a knack for pins and we could certainly use more bonus points in the lineup. Dziewa has looked good in flashes, but we haven’t seen much of him at all.

I suspect Midlands will be the decider for both weights next year. Right now, gun to my head, I’d probably say M Ballweg at 141 and Kelly at 149.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Feb 13, 2012 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

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