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The Streak Ends: Oklahoma State Beats Iowa Wrestling 17-16

Ia-vs-osu-wrestling022_medium

(ORIGINAL PHOTO CREDIT: Benjamin Roberts / Press Citizen)

So... that sucked. Iowa's historic unbeaten streak in dual meets -- 84 in a row -- is over. At the completion of all ten matches, they were tied with Oklahoma State 16-16, but after newly instituted tiebreaker rules were examined, Oklahoma State was awarded an additional (and meet-winning) point, based on having more total match points than Iowa (54-51). Losing the streak was always going to be painful; losing it on a goddamn tiebreaker is even more agonizing. Perhaps it was fitting that it came this way, though; the winning streak became an unbeaten streak a year ago thanks to a tie with Oklahoma State and now, after what was essentially yet another tie (the two teams have split the last two dual meets right down the middle, ten matches apiece), they will be tied forever in the record books with Oklahoma State.

As with any loss, particularly one as close as this one, there's a tendency to point fingers and assign blame. In this case, though, there's no easy scapegoat. Outside of Matt McDonough and (especially) Tony Ramos -- and probably Vinnie Wagner and Mike Evans, too -- every Iowa wrestler could have a little bit more in their matches to steer the meet result in a different direction.

* If Bobby Telford avoids giving up a five-point move early in the match (or if he doesn't get so skittish that he's afraid to go to any of his own offense after that), he probably doesn't give up a major decision - and Iowa wins.

* If Montell Marion doesn't wrestle such a sloppy, listless match (he was so flat-footed that he was practically handing Kindig takedowns on a silver platter), Iowa probably wins.

* If Nick Moore is able to take crisper shots and finish his takedowns, Iowa probably wins.

* If Ethen Lofthouse can get a takedown (particularly in that crazed scramble at the end of the first period), Iowa probably wins.

* If Grant Gambrall and Mike Kelly... well, honestly, I'm not sure what they could have done -- they both looked pretty overmatched in their matches.

If anything epitomizes Iowa's struggles against Oklahoma State on Saturday night, it's this: Matt McDonough had more takedowns (six) than the rest of the Iowa team did in the rest of their matches combined (five). Montell Marion had a pair of takedowns and Tony Ramos, Mike Evans, and Vinnie Wagner each had one takedown apiece in their matches. No other Hawkeye had a single takedown in their matches. That is not a winning formula, especially not for a team like Iowa that prides itself on its attacking prowess. With a few notable exceptions, this Iowa team looked painfully toothless.

#2 Oklahoma State 17, #2 Iowa 16
HWT: #2
Alan Gelogaev MAJ DEC (10-2) #7 Bobby Telford (OSU 4-0)
125: #2
Matt McDonough MAJ DEC (14-4) #9 Jon Morrison (tied, 4-4)
133: #4
Tony Ramos DEC (4-3 OT) #1 Jordan Oliver (Iowa 7-4)
141: #3
Montell Marion DEC (9-7) #9 Josh Kindig (Iowa 10-4)
149: #2
Jamal Parks DEC (8-3) #11 Mike Kelly (Iowa 10-7)
157: #15
Albert White DEC (7-4) Nick Moore (tied, 10-10)
165: #10
Mike Evans DEC (5-1) Dallas Bailey (Iowa, 13-10)
174: #3
Chris Perry DEC (3-2 OT) #9 Ethen Lofthouse (tied, 13-13)
184:
Vinnie Wagner DEC (4-3) Chris McNeil (Iowa, 16-13)
197:
Blake Rosholt DEC 8-4) #15 Grant Gambrall (tied, 16-16)
* Oklahoma State earns one team point on the third criteria - total match points (54-51)

Star-divide

* Tony Ramos is a stud. In a better world, Ramos' sensational overtime win over Jordan Oliver, the #1-ranked wrestler in the nation, the defending national champion, and a Hodge Trophy favorite, would have led off this recap. Unfortunately, when Iowa loses the way they did on Saturday night, it seems more appropriate to dwell on some of the negatives. Perhaps that's appropriate, perhaps it's not. In any event, Ramos' win remains a sensational accomplishment and a massive testament to his growth as a wrestler, as well as one of the most electric moments in recent Carver-Hawkeye Arena history. His win blew the proverbial roof off the building. Ramos' win was the product of smart wrestling, strong defense, and controlled aggression.

While Ramos technically won on a penalty point, that shouldn't diminish his win at all -- he was a very deserving victor. He was able to stuff Oliver's attacks (including on one particularly deep takedown attempt early on), he was the more consistent aggressor, he came closer to scoring more takedowns (he came absurdly close to getting the match-winner in the sudden victory period), he scored the decisive takedown late in the third period, and he was able to ride Oliver when it mattered in overtime. It was a truly remarkable performance. There are several wrestlers on this Iowa team who have been wrestling tentatively and cautiously of late, which is hugely frustrating. Ramos is decidedly not one of them. He's aggressive, he's confident, and he seems to be constantly getting better. This may or may not end up being a year to remember for Iowa as a whole, but Ramos' performance throughout the remainder of the season should be a lot of fun to behold.

* McLeadership. It seems almost unnecessary to praise McDonough when he simply goes out and does what he's done for the better part of three years, but still: let's take a moment to acknowledge just how good McDonough is and how clutch he can be. After the meet opened with Bobby Telford's deflating 10-2 major decision loss, it was imperative that McD respond -- and respond in a big way. Which is precisely what he did, fighting through a frustrating 0-0 first period to erupt in the second and third periods and turn the match into a takedown clinic which he won 14-4. The action and dominance of the win got the crowd back into the meet and the four points he earned evened up the dual meet score. In hindsight, of course, a tech fall or pin would have been better, but those were going to be difficult to obtain when Morrison was so determined to spend the second and third periods turtling up and not giving up his back to McD. In all likelihood, it would have been a waste of time for McD to spend too much time trying to stick Morrison after one of his many takedowns; he was better off simply pouring on the takedowns and guaranteeing the major decision.

* Experience is a bitch. There were three Oklahoma State senior vs. Iowa redshirt freshman matchups last night -- and OSU won all three of them. In fact, only twice last night did a younger wrestler beat an older wrestler -- Ramos at 133 and Rosholt at 197. Experience does matter and, unfortunately, this is still an Iowa team that's learning and growing. Nick Moore, Mike Kelly, and Bobby Telford had never wrestled in an atmosphere like this, or in a meet with stakes as high as this one... and, unfortunately, it showed in their performances. Oklahoma State is a team clearly built to compete right now, moreso than Iowa, sadly. They have five seniors in their starting lineup (six if Byers ever regains his spot at 197); Iowa has... two (Montell Marion and Vinnie Wagner). Iowa started four redshirt freshmen and two sophomores. For every Matt McDonough that explodes onto the scene as a sensation as a freshman, there are several more guys who take longer to develop. This is a long-winded way of saying: there are better times ahead for Iowa.

* When will Montell Marion show up this year? I feel like I've bagged on Marion in almost every recap I've done this year, which seems odd for a guy who's now 16-1 on the season. But Marion has so consistently underwhelmed this year that it seems warranted. Where is the Marion who claimed he wanted to "dominate" the competition this year? Kindig is a decent wrestler, but not the sort of challenger who should be pushing Marion into the final seconds of the match. Why did Marion appear to be utterly spent by half-way through the second period in that match? Why was he wrestling so flat-footed and making it easy for Kindig to take him down? Why did he seemingly wait until the third period to again "flip the switch" and start wrestling fairly hard? He's just a maddening wrestler to watch.

* Fatigue? Before the meet, there was plenty of grumbling from Iowa fans about the the schedule -- Iowa had a dual meet in Bloomington, IN Friday night and had to bus back to Iowa City late Friday night -- but I don't think that gripe holds much water when it comes to explaining Iowa's performance in this meet. Five guys wrestled both Friday night and Saturday night; they went 3-2 on Saturday, with McDonough, Ramos, and Evans picking up wins and Kelly and Moore coming up short. Frankly, the guys who looked the most gassed on Saturday were Marion and Gambrall -- two guys who didn't make the trip to Indiana.

* Vinnie and the last seconds. Finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the gutty efforts of Vinnie Wagner to pull out his match with a reversal in the frenetic final minutes of his match with OSU's McNeil. That was a toss-up match that Iowa needed to have to have a shot at winning the dual and Wagner came through for Iowa. It wasn't pretty, but we'll still happily doff our caps to Wagner in recognition for his ability to pull out that win.

* Progress needed. Based on current form, there are exactly two Iowa wrestlers I would feel comfortable winning All-America honors at the NCAA Tournament in March: McDonough and Ramos. Depending on St. John's health and how good he looks against legit competition this year, I would consider adding him. If you want to argue that Marion should on that list too because his only loss is to the current top-ranked wrestler, I would understand... but the way he's been wrestling makes it impossible to have confidence in him. The way he's wrestling now makes it possible for virtually anyone he wrestles to upset him. Still, at best that's four guys, which almost certainly won't be enough to win a title.

Guys like Evans, Lofthouse, and Telford have the potential to be All-Americans, but the last ten days (Midlands plus this dual) have showed us just how far they have to go in their development. The biggest problem with all three guys appears to be their ability to attack on their feet. Evans is a terror on the ground, but he struggles to get guys down on the mat a little too often because his attacks just aren't that strong yet. Lofthouse's offense at times looks good, but at other times looks too direct and is too easily defended. Telford was hailed as that rarest of things, an attack-happy heavyweight, but so far that's only been evident against lower echelon heavyweights. Against top heavyweights he's not only struggled to get takedowns, he's struggled to even take shots.

It's unclear what -- if anything -- can be expected from Kelly at 149, Wagner/Fahler at 184, or Gambrall at 197 -- which makes it essential for Iowa's title hopes that Evans, Lofthouse, and Telford develop into more consistent threats. The good news is that it's just January and titles aren't decided in January - they're decided in March. A year ago, Iowa looked shaky early on, too, but improved enough to put serious scares into Penn State at the Big Ten and NCAA Tournaments. Maybe lightning can strike twice.

NEXT: Iowa travels to Lincoln, NE to face #12 Nebraska on Friday (7pm CT) and returns home to take on #16 Northwestern on Sunday (1pm CT).

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Holy shit!
Matt McDonough had more takedowns (six) than the rest of the Iowa team did in the rest of their matches combined (five)

I thought that Lycurgus’ “no offense” skit was a little harsh on the wrestling team after just one loss, but now I might not think that. Ross’ note there is very damning.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 10:29 AM CST reply actions  

Never doubt me, nevah!!!

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Is Ramos getting a little bigger so that he's closer in size to the bigger 133's?

It looked to me like he was closer in size to Oliver than he would have been last year. If so, that may be helpful in the part of his game that was worst last year, competing against guys with decided size or length advantages

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 10:35 AM CST reply actions  

He looked better underneath than he had last season

I also think Oliver’s lack of conditioning was a factor on Saturday.

If Tony sees Oliver again at Nationals, he will be in for a dog fight. They both will.

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Oliver is cocky as hell

And it’s fun to watch, frankly. I would love to see a rematch of those two at NCAAs, hopefully in the finals

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

YES!!!

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I directed a female friend of mine (with no connection or interest in Iowa sports)

to the fanpost. It seems to have played well in my favor.

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Chicks dig the long ball prose

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

The good ones do at least

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Clarification

I directed my girlfriend to the fanpost

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

So between directing her there and now she got upgraded?

Kudos to long-dead English authors and your channeling of them.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

She was upgraded before

I used the wrong word to describe her.

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

You've fallen prey to the wiles of a Lubbock woman

I’ll pray for your soul

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Not Lubbock

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

WTF?

I have no idea what happened here, but it’s glorious.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 9, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

It will be interesting to see how the seedings shake out at 133.

This weekend, the current #1 (Oliver) and #2 (Stieber) both lost. The #3 (Carter) beat the #4 (Ramos) at Midlands. I would guess the rankings will be something like:

1) Carter
2) Ramos
3) Oliver
4) Stieber

this week. Ramos will wrestle Stieber at least once (Iowa-OSU dual later this month) and possibly twice (Big Tens). He’ll also have to contend with Minny’s 133er (which was David Thorn, who is good, but could be Nick Dardanes, who filled in for Thorn yesterday and beat Stieber). And, again, he may have to face whoever that is twice (at the dual and at Big Tens).

And National Duals could provide more rematches between these guys. Va Tech is in Iowa’s bracket, so we could see a Ramos-Carter rematch. OSU and OSU are in the same bracket as well, meaning we could see Steiber-Oliver as well. And if Iowa and OSU get the semis/finals, we could see Ramos-Oliver again.

All of that before the NCAAs! Which is to say: there could be a LOT of shake-ups in these rankings before March and the NCAA tourney gets here.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Gotta find that damn offense

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, although I don't think there are going to be too many high-scoring matches at 133 among these guys.

Ramos needs to find a way to get 1-2 takedowns per match, though.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Ramos has been excellent on his feet all year

For me the stunning part was how well he rode Oliver.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions  

He did very well in OT.

Shame he couldn’t have rode him for a few more seconds at the end of the third period to end the match there. But Oliver is very tough to ride, so full credit to Tony for doing as well as he did.

I do wonder if fatigue played a role in that match, too. Oliver looked gassed by the end. I mention that as a credit to Ramos rather than an excuse for Oliver, too. On paper, Oliver has a lot of advantages over Ramos — he’s bigger, more experienced, and a bit more polished. Tony’s bottomless gas tank is one of the few on-paper advantages he had, so he needed to find a way to take advantage of that. Which he did by wrestling hard and pushing the pace against Oliver, leading to J.O. having very little left by that second OT period. Ramos, by contrast, looked almost fresh as a daisy after the match.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

That's getting a rec from me.

"West Texas seems to be full of fake boobs providing a comfortable shade for well-developed pot bellies" - Lycurgus (06/24/2011)

by BStylin Hawkye on Jan 9, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Watching a guy like Oliver, I get even more respect for Tony

Oliver is such a fucking beast for his size and so strong that I know what Tony was doing was pure artistry. It’s like hearing a great song or watching a great movie, you just know that you could NEVER do what he’s doing out there.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

we should send him to Indiana

the night before every big match

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Jan 9, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Perhaps Tony was just so fired up to get out of that hellhole of a state that it carried over to the Oliver match.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

That much competition against the elite

is one of the few positives of wrestling being such a small world. Can you imagine if football was like this? Damn that would be fun. Wait, no it wouldn’t, because Iowa football would probably on the outside looking in.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Is this whole comment meant to be sarcasm,

because FBS college football pretty much is like this, only a little bigger. And, much of the time, Iowa is on the outside looking in (at the football national title picture).

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jan 9, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

pretty much, yep

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Holy crap

I am totally excited for an Iowa-OSU rematch in the National Duels. That could be epic.

by kythom on Jan 9, 2012 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

That Minny development at 133 is one to watch

It’s actually Chris Dardanes, who I think is Nick’s younger brother. Nick is still wrestling 141. But, yeah, Chris put in a workmanlike effort at the Southern Scuffle, never losing in route to the 133 championship, albeit vs. a fairly mediocre field. Normal starter David Thorn had outscored him with a bunch of bonus wins en route to 3rd place, until the final, when Dardanes’ points overtook Thorns. Would have to check in with a goopher board, but I wonder if Robinson was considering redshirting Dardanes until this recent run.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 9, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks for the correction.

Minnesota loves them families of wrestlers. The Thorns, the Dardaneses, the Nesses, the Yohns…

I guess Iowa’s had pretty good luck with that, too: the Brandses, the Steiners, the Ballwegs, the Lofthouses…

And, yeah, I think 133 is going to be one of the wildest weights to watch this year. I thought Oliver was head and shoulders above everyone else, but it really seems like the field has closed the gap on him — for now, anyway. Like McD, he seems to have some trouble with weight early in the season but usually has it under control by NCAAs.

But 125 seems to be settling down with McD regaining his old form; I suspect he’ll be back at #1 after he gets through Sanders in a few wees.

141 is also messy, although I think Maple will stay atop the heap there for a while.

149 looks like the Frank the Tank and Parks show to me.

157 is still the Dake show; we’ll see what DSJ looks like when he gets back.

165 is all David Taylor all the time. Everyone else is fighting for 2nd.

174 is hard to figure with Amuchategui having been hurt (I think) for a bit. I think adding Perry makes it an even nastier weight, though.

184 is a little wild, although Hamlin seems to have separated himself from the pack a little bit.

197 is all but Honeycutt and Simaz, IMO.

HWT looks like Rey, Trice, and Gelogaev.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

the Zadicks, the Banachs

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Wrestling: it's a family affair!

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

thought Trice was RSing

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Flores

I got my tubby dudes mixed up.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Gotcha. Thanks.

And especially thanks for the heads-up on the national picture. I pretty much know nothing in wrestling outside of Iowa, B10, and OSU

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Looks about right

Get the Bosak upset Hamlin this weekend, in a low-scoring affair:

In the highly anticipated bout at 184 pounds, junior Bosak and Hamlin were scoreless after the first period. Hamlin chose to start the second down, but was unable to escape until there were only 10 seconds left in the period. Bosak chose to start the third down, but Hamlin opted for an optional start tying the bout at 1-1. The two wrestlers traded shots back and forth, but neither wrestler was able to score. With 1:50 in riding time, Bosak won a 2-1 decision over the top ranked wrestler.

The team tourney race is gonna be tiiiiggghht. Minny may not be championship caliber at enough weights, but they’re top 10 up and down the lineup (except 157, where, poor Deitschler). And Okie’s improvements at those upper weights is getting scary. Although, their weaknesses at 184, 165 & 157 may help us both out come March.

Definitely was a good weekend of wrestling this past weekend, tho.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 9, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

More upheaval!

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

p.s.

Somehow forgot to add, condolences on the tough loss and the end of a truly amazing streak. And thanks for letting me come round to talk wrestling ish with youse.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 9, 2012 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

They may see each other at National Duals before that.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought of that too

I couldn’t remember if OSU was going to be there.

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep. Looks like everyone will be at National Duals except Penn State, because they're doo-doo heads.

National Duals 2012 info.

Lots of good potential match-ups there. From an interesting match/prep for NCAAs standpoint, I think I’d like to see Iowa-VT at the Ames regional, Iowa-Cornell in the semis, and Iowa-OkSt in the finals (revenge!)

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

what amazes me about that

Iowa got alot of crap for not showing up last year……dont hear much crap coming PSUs way this year even though they are skipping it.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 9, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Which tells you that PSU has a long way to go to be in Iowa's league

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

I heard Dong is out for the year due to injury

so sadly, no Dong for you

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 9, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

TWSS

"West Texas seems to be full of fake boobs providing a comfortable shade for well-developed pot bellies" - Lycurgus (06/24/2011)

by BStylin Hawkye on Jan 9, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

NOOO

Please medical redshirt. What was his injury? It wasn’t this, was it?

by kythom on Jan 9, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

sigh

that was to you, BStylin

by kythom on Jan 9, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Along the lines of 2 women talking.

"West Texas seems to be full of fake boobs providing a comfortable shade for well-developed pot bellies" - Lycurgus (06/24/2011)

by BStylin Hawkye on Jan 9, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought we were going to a Bobbitt link

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Just a dumb old shoulder injury

According to this report. But it says he should be able to get a medical redshirt, which means we should get to see the ol’ Donger again in 2012-2013.

Incidentally, according to his Twitter account he’s also a “professional life coach.”

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

"Listen to me. Listen to The Dong."

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Shoulder injury from throwin his dong over it for transport

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 9, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Coach Dong

or, since it seems more like and eastern religion type thing, Master Dong.

by kythom on Jan 9, 2012 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

He has gotten a little bigger, I think.

He’s still smaller than guys like Oliver or Devin Carter, but not terribly so.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I has a sad.

Was really pulling for Iowa to break the streak.

Executive Producer - WRNL TV

by CyHawk on Jan 9, 2012 10:46 AM CST reply actions  

I'm with Ross. It was a fitting way for it to end

I think the streak got tainted with the tie last year. Let’s start again and earn it outright. Go Hawks!

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think the tie tainted it that much.

OSU has two ties in their 84-meet unbeaten streak.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I was not aware of that. Then fuck them.

So would we have the longest true winning streak then?

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Nope.

OSU has winning streaks of 76, 70, and 69. Iowa’s longest winning streak is 69 meets.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Then double fuck them.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Just mindblowing

All of this streak stuff.

jtothetweet
Yet, bag or not, it’s nigh on impossible to mistake a cat for a pig.

by jtothep on Jan 9, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I was reminded of two things watching this meet ...

1. I’m always amazed at how the two elite programs can have such contrasting styles of wrestling. I can’t imagine how boring it must be to be an OSU Wrestling fan.

2. I have no idea what John Smith is like in real life, but he sure does seem to relish the villain role at Carver, and he’s always instilled that same attitude into his wrestlers.

by The Naked Bootleg on Jan 9, 2012 10:48 AM CST reply actions  

especially with that commie pinko russian

that definately will make you the villian in the United States of Iowa

by Bust my McNuttz on Jan 9, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Just like Tom Brands

embodies the villain role at just about every venue Iowa wrestles outside of Carver

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Tebow is a fullback not a wrestler

Just ask Mel Kiper.

Das Stochern gewinnt.

by Blackheartnopants on Jan 9, 2012 11:20 AM CST via Android app up reply actions  

Did you see Bill Barnwell's effusive praise of Tebow's game against the Steelers?

I agree with him. That was nails.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

hard to argue with the guy's results

he does it in an unconventional way but Superbowl titles have been won by some quarterbacks that aren’t great at typical QB skills. 10 completions for 316 yards doesn’t suck.

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Jan 9, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions  

REC'D!

Twitterz: @EnergizerHawk

by EnergizerHawk on Jan 9, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

yep

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Ramos-Oliver match = fucking amazing

Riding time was 1:08 in Oliver’s favor near the end of the 3rd after a Ramos takedown. The bonus point + an Oliver escape would tie the match. Ramos just needed to ride Oliver for 9 seconds to get the win.
The whistle blows and the fucking riding time clock starts counting up! Everyone in Carver starts going nuts (I was thinking about the Iowa State meet where riding time also got fucked up).
After Oliver escapes, the riding time says 1:13. The refs go to the scorer’s table to figure out the mess, and they change the clock to :59! Everyone starts cheering like crazy (even though they can subtract). Then the clock goes to 1:02 and the tie is inevitable.
In overtime, Ramos has a killer shot, but Oliver is able to fight him off. Going into the two riding periods I was not feeling great about Ramos’ chances- Oliver is a great rider, and Ramos hadn’t held him down the entire match. Ramos gets ridden out, but when Oliver is on bottom, he starts too quickly, for the THIRD TIME, Ramos gets a penalty point and then rides Oliver out to win the match. Holy shit

by whohawk on Jan 9, 2012 11:20 AM CST reply actions  

The penalty point seemed to take some of the life out of Oliver, which surprised me.

I don’t know why he would have thought he couldn’t get an escape to tie up the match – he’d just gotten out pretty quickly at the end of the third period, after all. Unless he really was just gassed.

But credit to Ramos too — he rode him hard and did a great job of stretching him out and keeping him down. That was one of the few good rides from an Iowa wrestler all day (although I’m pretty sure McD could have rode Morrison around the mat like a pony if he’d wanted to in the second and third periods of that match). As a team, we really need to work on our riding ability. If Lofthouse can ride better, he wins that match with that takedown in the third period.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Riding, finishing takedowns, and offensive positioning

Those are the things I didn’t see a lot of from Iowa at the meet. It’s also what I think has to improve if these guys want to be, as Brands put it in his interview, “big time.”
They looked too much like highschoolers against OkSt.

by whohawk on Jan 9, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Yep, total agreement there.

We got too many of our points from escapes (often given to us) or penalty points in this meet; that’s not good. We need to be initiating more of the action and getting more points off our own offense.

I think McD was the only Iowa guy to earn a riding time point in that dual.

In terms of finishing takedowns and offensive positioning, we need to be able to attack (and finish) from different angles. Too often we seem to just try to bull rush and go forward at guys; we need to be able to attack from different angles or off slick moves (like the Marion one you noted). We’re too easy to defend right now.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions  

BTW

That’s a great shot of the coaching staff. Both Brands boys ready to jump on to help if they could.

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Jan 9, 2012 11:20 AM CST reply actions  

Zadick too.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know who it is

but it kinda looks like Tebow was there.

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Jan 9, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Zadick's the scruffy-looking guy in black between Los Hermanos Branditos.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

He kinda blends into the background with that Guido dress shirt

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

He is like a scruffy phantom, appearing out of nowhere to grind you into nothingness.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Good work, Ross

I say that a lot, but a guy getting paid in Chizek nickels for this kind of quality work deserves praise.

Das Stochern gewinnt.

by Blackheartnopants on Jan 9, 2012 11:23 AM CST via Android app reply actions   1 recs

Re: Marion

I wonder if his lapses can be explained in that he’s never had to push himself. I know that’s strange to say about an Iowa senior wrestler on a one-loss season, but he’s maybe he’s never really had to push himself. Now that a push is required, he doesn’t have the mental and emotional tools to push himself.

It’s armchair psychology, I know, but it’s a theory.

Das Stochern gewinnt.

by Blackheartnopants on Jan 9, 2012 11:30 AM CST via Android app reply actions  

how high are Marion's expectations?

not a whole lot of guys would lable a win over a top 10 opponent as a dissapointment.

but i didnt see the match, so il take your word for it.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 9, 2012 11:42 AM CST reply actions  

it seems

he was wrestling at this level his Sophomore year, when he took 2nd at NCAA’s. It appears he hasn’t progressed much in the last two seasons. I realize we are spoiled but after watching him that year I kind of expected him to be completely dominate by this year.
I always get nervous when he steps on the mat – I just get the feeling he is one bad decision away from losing.

"40 MINUTES OF MEH!" - djwoody

by The Bacon Explosion on Jan 9, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought both wrestlers looked gassed in the second period.

It really was not a fun match to watch. A lot of standing around by both wrestlers, looking at each other, not even hand fighting. It looked to me like he spent a lot of time just trying to muscle Kindig over, rather than try to set something up. I thought it was a thoroughly unimpressive match for both wrestlers.

by kythom on Jan 9, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Brands also mentioned how tired both wrestlers were

Overall I was impressed with Iowa’s conditioning, so it makes me wonder why Marion looks gassed as early as the 2nd period.

by whohawk on Jan 9, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I was a little surprised at that.

Brands praised Montell and noted that they were “tired pups” (I think that’s what he said without going back to look) at the end. So, it appears he wasn’t too worried about it.

by rupertj on Jan 9, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

It was very sloppy

Marion shows little leg defense and I thought they both just flopped around a lot.

Sloppy wrestling.

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

You can't just look at the outcome.

Yes, he got the win – but he looked like shit doing so. He needed a late takedown and possibly dubious nearfall call to get that win. Kindig is solid, but it’s not like he’s as good as Maple or Russell. (Maple beat him 13-3 earlier this year, for instance.)

He’s looked unimpressive — disinterested, sluggish, flat-footed — in almost every match of his that I’ve seen this year. Yes, he’s still getting wins (which is good), but he’s also benefited from a soft schedule so far. Until he wrestles better than this, I’m going to have a very hard time thinking he’ll do much at NCAAs this year. He may be a two-time All-American, but that doesn’t mean dick when he’s wrestling as unimpressive as he is now.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the Marion match was in the 3rd

when he faked, shot, defended a counter and then countered for a strong takedown, and he showed ridiculous quickness. This is why he frustrates people. You see him show crazy quickness and technique and you think “wow he can do whatever he wants to this guy”, then he spends the rest of the match letting his opponent dictate the action.

by whohawk on Jan 9, 2012 11:45 AM CST reply actions  

That's more proof that, from the ears down, he's nails

He’s as talented as anyone in the nation from the ears down. Great athlete, polished offense, good on top, ability to counter/defend…he has the physical tools. We get matches from him like we got against Oklahoma State two years ago when he really beat up on Parks – dominated the ties, rode well, pushed the pace, etc.

Ears up though is a different matter. When he’s focused he can do whatever he wants. When he’s not, that leaves open the possibility of the flat-footed crap we’ve seen from him before. When he’s disinterested, he looks mediocre at best.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jan 9, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Il say this

Iowa’s 84 match unbeaten streak is a lot more impressive than OSU’s. when OSU did it there werent nearly as many challanges as there were for Iowa’s.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 9, 2012 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

Im struggling to remember, but what match almost ended in a brawl?

I remember the coaches coming out to grab the wrestlers and then both guys taking off into the tunnel

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by HawkeyeBoiler on Jan 9, 2012 11:55 AM CST reply actions  

Lofthouse's

You should read HawKCP’s fanpost about seeing it live, it’s entertaining

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

the Lofthouse/Perry match

there are so many reports out though that its hard to tell what really happened. ive heard it was nothing but a staff overreaction, and ive heard it was a full on brawl in the tunnel. ive even heard that Uncle luke ran down the tunnel and got in Perry’s face.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 9, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I doubt Luke or anyone else ran over there and chewed him out. I think they probably ran over there to protect them.

They are ambassadors for the sport, and judging by the amount of time the cop was in the tunnel, nothing happened. I saw one of the HWC guys point into the tunnel and then follow Perry. I could be wrong (and he sure deserved a few harsh words from Luke or anyone else), but I doubt if it ever went to a fight or trading blows.

"Florida! You don't go to Florida in the winter, you go in the summer!" -Tom Brands

by David Starbuck Petersen on Jan 9, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

he was just happy

he proved that you dont need to actually “wrestle” to win a wrestling match, so bravo to him

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 9, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

He wrestled... he just didn't do much in the way of taking shots.

He got two slick escapes, though, and rode the hell out of Ethen in OT. That’s something.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

when the only takedown you can get is after the whistle, im not going to praise your wrestling

even if he rode well

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 9, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

There's more to wrestling than just takedowns.

I don’t particularly like this style (and Iowa’s had guys that wrestled similarly before; Morningstar comes to mind) but it can be effective if done well. He was definitely doing it well.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jan 9, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Plenty of good reasons to use it

especially against shorter and stronger opponents.
Keep matches close, win riding time, frustrate your opponent and wait for an opening.

by whohawk on Jan 9, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Perry was being a punk

I think pile-driving EL way after the whistle was a punk move too.

If Iowa guys catch hell for edge of the mat pushes, then so should OSU guys for that shit

Parsimony methods are the easiest ones to explain - Felsenstein

by Lycurgus on Jan 9, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe he are starting to see some leadership from Tony.

He is a really quite kid, but that might be different in the room. After the dual in an interview he called out Vinnie saying that Vinnie’s guy looked scared the whole match and he could have went more. I have a feeling Tony is going to be great, the first thing he said in the interview wasn’t just I could do better it was “I gave him to much respect in the first period”. He is focused, driven, and smart. On another note, MM was maybe the disappointment of the dual in my opinion. He wasn’t finishing shots early, gave up takedowns, and at the end of the match just looked lifeless till he finally scored.

"Florida! You don't go to Florida in the winter, you go in the summer!" -Tom Brands

by David Starbuck Petersen on Jan 9, 2012 12:58 PM CST reply actions  

we*

"Florida! You don't go to Florida in the winter, you go in the summer!" -Tom Brands

by David Starbuck Petersen on Jan 9, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

*quiet

sorry, it was too easy to pass up

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 9, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Using total accumulated match points as a tiebreaker

seems wrong and duplicative considering that match points — or margin of victory — are already accounted for in the team score (in greater team points assigned to major decisions and tech falls). I suppose the “number of falls” tiebreaker is in some sense equally duplicative, but pins seem to be fantastic and rare enough to warrant an extra point in a tiebreaker scenario.

Maybe the “total match points” tiebreaker is just the only other way they could think of breaking the tie, but if the teams were clearly that evenly matched, what’s so wrong with a tie?

And why can’t we just have the coaches face off for a winner-takes-all final tiebreaker?

by geraldfleck on Jan 9, 2012 1:04 PM CST reply actions  

You are always going to somehow duplicate margin of victory somehow. I mean the tiebreaker should somehow reveal a difference in teams. Also it is the 3rd criteria. The first criteria is number of matches, and that does seem to hedge against the points version of margin of victory. So if you win 6 decisions but they get a fall or a couple of bonus point wins and tie up team score, you still will win. The first criteria hedges back against scoring only based on points. I think the way the tiebreaker is set up is correct.

"Florida! You don't go to Florida in the winter, you go in the summer!" -Tom Brands

by David Starbuck Petersen on Jan 9, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I made it to the dual

and agree there were some epic battles but my ICWH boys did not distinguish themselves….

Nick Moore needs to fully commit to his actions. He had at least 4 solid shots but then just froze midway through. It was very frustrating.

DSJ disappointed by just not showing up. A healthly DSJ in the line up and Iowa wins this thing.

Gambral needs to cut back to 84 or just hang up his jock strap. He has gone from a national contender at 84 to an scholarship waste at 97. He was totally over-matched by a mediocre OSU wrestler. At 97 he looks weaker and slower. Lira would have made a better show of it.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Jan 10, 2012 1:55 PM CST reply actions  

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