Our coaches work so hard recruiting in all sports. When you put all that time and energy – whenever somebody doesn’t finish with you, because that’s the goal – the goal is to win championships and watch, in this case young men, walk out the door with a degree in their hand. So anytime that doesn’t happen – they’re teachers, they’re mentors – so anytime that doesn’t happen they’re frustrated. And it’s not just this situation; it’s any time it happens.
Gary Barta, commenting on Marcus Coker's departure, which begs the question: When "the goal is to win championships and watch young men walk out the door with a degree in their hand," why do we continue to employ guys who do neither?
5 months ago
Patrick Vint
85 comments
2 recs |
Comments
Gary Barta said "I'm not going to..." 5 times
And used the word “concern/concerned” 7 times.
Yet and still, he said absolutely nothing. Impressive. Most impressive.
So because there has a (very) bad string of running backs not
making it to graduation day, that signifies neither? Is there unknown and/or unseen epidemic of Iowa players who don’t play running back not making it to graduation day?
Watching the Cubs piss it away for 31 years.
I really, really wish SB Nation had an"edit" feature.
If there is one – anywhere – can someone tell me where it can be found?
Watching the Cubs piss it away for 31 years.
There's not one.
If you want something deleted, just let me know.
Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.
by Patrick Vint on Jan 11, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
There must be a lot of frustration
in the athletic department if these are the criteria
"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass
…which begs the question: When “the goal is to win championships and watch young men walk out the door with a degree in their hand,” why do we continue to employ guys who do neither?
Is that your question/comment, HS, or someone else’s?
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
That's his. Pretty inflammatory, ya?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jan 11, 2012 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
His as in Vint's?
Or his as in Dochterman’s?
Either way, I’m not real happy.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 11, 2012 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
Vint.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jan 11, 2012 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
Mine
Quick: Name the last player coached by Lester Erb who graduated?
Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.
by Patrick Vint on Jan 11, 2012 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
Does Erb coach FBs?
Brett Morse?
Are you really advocating using the RB-attrition issue as a reason to discontinue Ferentz’s employment? Are was that just a sarcastic comment that was inspired by a bad day/week/month (for all of us Hawk fans).
And you know I’m saying all of this with admiration for you, but also just a tiny bit of anger (that will pass with your next DC candidate post).
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 11, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
LOL.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 11, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
Paki O'Meara?
You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!
by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Jan 12, 2012 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
Oh come on. It's a thinly veiled swipe at Ferentz's employment, you're choosing an easy out here
I wouldn’t have as much problem with your opinion that Ferentz should be fired if you’d actually state it, then we could debate the merits of said opinion. Instead you dance around it constantly. Maybe you’re doing that to retain some sort of journalistic objectivity, but to me it frankly looks like you’re staying away from it to retain some plausible deniability of that opinion if KF turns the ship around and we’re Top 10 again.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jan 12, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
um...
“why do we continue to employ guys who do neither?” does not at all read to me like"why does ferentz get paid all that money and why is he still here?"
if you want to talk about objectivity then surely we can agree that any person with knowledge of the word’s definition and familiarity with the Iowa football program would have to conclude that we have some serious input/output problems.
How is it the position coach's fault if they get into academic or legal trouble?
If they leave because they’re upset with the coaching staff or something like that, then sure, but I don’t think it’s his job to babysit or tutor them.
Whew.
Uhhh… that one WR who returned the punt for a TD against Iowa State in 2008? #80, I think. Local kid. Whatever.
"WELCOME TA EARFF!"
by Bucketochicken on Jan 12, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Brodell!
Andy Brodell! Ugh. Knew there was a “B” in there somewhere.
Anyway, was it Andy Brodell? Or was Erb already coaching RBs then?
"WELCOME TA EARFF!"
by Bucketochicken on Jan 12, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
He did both
at least for Brodell. Erb took over RB duties starting in 2008 with the arrival of Soup, so Brodell would have spent the majority of his time at Iowa being under Erb’s tutelage.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Or yeah, Paki, I guess.
"WELCOME TA EARFF!"
by Bucketochicken on Jan 12, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
Jason White
"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe
Has he graduated yet? Technicality...
You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!
by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Jan 15, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Give me a break.
Your comment on winning championships was clearly directed at Lester Erb because the running game has so consistently been our problem.
You want to take a shot, just take a shot and live with the consequences. It’s not like you’re going to ever backtrack on asking a dude to resign or anything.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 13, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
I think Vint is saying that Erb is the employee in question.
Based on his comment regarding his players who have graduated.
by hawkinsandmelrose on Jan 13, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a supporter of Ferentz and his staff
but it does beg the question. A loaded question, yes, but not unfair. I know the fairness issue will be tested here as it wasn’t the coaches doing bad things or getting injured, and there have been a variety of reasons for several of the departures. But the benefit of the doubt fades when there are enough kids with criminal problems and enough kids who can’t cut it in school. There is a fair recruiting question in all this, a fair question about mentoring and tutoring when the kids are here.
To me, the Coker situation, what we know of it, seems to bear that out. Just as this year’s frustration with the team’s season has as much or more to do with the previous years disappointment, this departure seems more a frustration born of the totality of past problems, in my view. I have the suspicion, maybe because charges were declined and the staff was positive about his return, that there may not have been a real issue but because of the recent history of problems with Coker’s predecessors, the margins have been drawn closer and Coker ended up as collateral damage. It may have been determined, and maybe not by the football program, that the football program can’t stand any more problems like it had in the past, particularly with even the suggestion of an assault., though in fact the matter was closed.
We have been fooled before and will be fooled again, but Coker seemed different. He was personable, had seemed to otherwise stay out of trouble, and was taking a courseload for a real, honest-to-God major. If there is anything to take from Barta’s AD-speak, it may be that the coaches thought he was different, too, and are truly disappointed by what has happened. They also are not fools, and must understand that this is tearing the scab yet again off of a wound to the program that hasn’t healed for a couple of years now. I think Ferentz has always understood that kids will do dumb things but now that it has reached the point of threatening the program’s integrity, the characteristic I suspect he values as highly as any, there is some amount of unhappiness and embarrassment that can’t be sloughed off with a gruff reference to tough things happening and the simple fact that you move on. That’s all true, but it doesn’t mean that the sting doesn’t linger and the welts aren’t fading. And we’re just shy of the one-year anniversary of the rhabdo incident.
Nobody is above scrutiny, however virtuous and honorable, if the facts justify it. Here, the facts have lent the suggestion that something is or has been wrong. Again, I’m not certain that Coker even deserved his suspension, but I think the margin for error , and the benefit of the doubt, have been seriously eroded. Ultimately that lays at the feet of the coaching staff, even if only partly deserved.
And that begs the question, just what is to be done, if anything? I wish I knew.
FOUR. THREE. COVER. TWO.
…enough kids who can’t cut it in school.
Doesn’t Iowa have a substantial tutoring program for athletes? This really shouldn’t be a valid excuse.
As for the problem about criminal behavior, I also have no clue what the answer is. Most people thought Coker was not the type to fall into that. And the dismissed assault investigation would seem to support that. I feel like one “answer” to this issue that we can rule out is the possibility of more cover-ups and less transparency.
I have a concern, and I’m sure it will be considered outrageous. DJK said the women were flocking to the football players. That would probably include nice, upstanding women, but it is also probably including some women who you really can’t trust. Some types like what Clayborn had issues with. And this is a problem that is really difficult to avoid.
Can you ask Ejiasi to give a talk about being wary of feminine wiles? How to recognize someone who may not be mentally stable? That would be a public relations nightmare.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 11, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
Also that totally is not what "begs the question" means
Grammar nazi’d, motherfucka
Maybe Patrick was just "Vint"ing some frustration?
by GreatBarrierReiff on Jan 12, 2012 5:23 PM CST via mobile reply actions
What is Gary Barta's claim to fame here?
Other than Fran, which he backed in to, he’s not done squat. Has he? Oh, right. He suspended Coker.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
With your university knowledge
You would probably know that Gary Barta has more responsibilites than just hiring coaches every couple of years, right? Maybe he should fire Ferentz and Brands just to have something to do?
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 13, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
His job is to win championships, make money and run a clean program
He’s made Iowa some money, but not because of any hires he’s made. He’s merely keeping the trains running on time. He’s no genius. He hired Todd Lickliter, one of the worst hires and biggest misfits in Iowa history.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jan 13, 2012 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
His job is more than just hiring people.
Do you think he just sits in the mothballs and waits for somebody to be hired? He makes Iowa money period and for a lot of reasons other than ‘hiring’.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 14, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Look at Tennessee
10th most profitable program in the country. The AD resigned over the summer. He made them tons of money. Yet, he was forced out. It is very much about who you hire and how they operate. And the buck stops with the AD. Barta did not hire Kirk, he did not hire Brands, but he did hire Lickliter. That’s not a great resume. Fran is going to cancel out Lickliter, but what exactly has Barta done for us outside of that?
In the Big Ten only Northwestern is ranked lower than Iowa in the Directors Cup.
http://thedirectorscup.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Jan-12-DI-by-conf.pdf
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
It might be worth noting that Iowa State is WAY ahead of Iowa in the Directors Cup
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Lick looked like an okay-to-decent hire at the time.
Barta’s doing at least okay. Maybe even quite well. Even if Lick was a disaster.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 14, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
Has Barta only hired one coach?
Surely there’s more than that.
For the non-revenue sports I think the bar is pretty low for an Iowa AD. Just don’t let them get any worse. Maybe it should be higher, but in all my time in Iowa City (10 years) I don’t think I ever knew anybody who gave a crap about them.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
I think there are people
that want our track and field, baseball, softball, and field hockey teams to be good.
I think it is nice when one of them does well, but I can’t say I give a shit.
It probably is important for Iowa baseball to get and stay on its feet, being that it is the last Iowa state school to have baseball.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 14, 2012 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
Nobody is saying hiring is not part of his job. Nor that is not an important part of his job
But this isn’t Tennessee. That guy’s hires decimated two of their three revenue sports. In football, he fired a legend and then hired a guy who left the program in one year after a ton of minor NCAA violations and who screwed over the program on the way out. In basketball, Bruce Pearl.
Lickliter was a mistake, no question. But it was mistake that was remedied and Barta went 180 degrees with the next coach because of that mistake. We’ll have to see how it turns out, but it is looking good so far.
Brands and Ferentz aren’t going anywhere. And Barta does his job of getting donations, keeping said donors happy, and the luxury boxes are full. He’s also led to upgrades in facilities that are also positive steps.
The Director’s Cup is pretty meaningless and depends on so many factors, including what sports are offered and priority given to non-revenue sports. Barta isn’t going to lose his job because the cross-country team underperforms.
I am curious as to what Barta needs to do to “do something for us.” Besides firing Ferentz and hiring Chris Peterson, Steve Spagnuolo, Nick Saban or DJK as his replacement.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 15, 2012 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
My original comment was (and still holds)
what’s so great about Gary Barta? What has he done that any number of able boddied decent guys couldn’t do? All those projects were well under way when he came on board. He’s keeping the trains running on time, making up for an awful hire with one that he was a whisker away of missing and instead hiring a guy who was fired a year later. I stand behind my question…what is so great about Gary Barta?
Anyone around here other than Displaced think Gary Barta is great? Non revenue sports are middling, revenue sports built up before he got here, then basketball plunged under his watch. Not impressed. Also, I don’t think he shows much leadership in crisis. His Rhabdo presence was useless. If he had an ounce of smarts he would have told Kirk, “Get you ass back in Iowa City. The optics of you being in Ohio while kids are dropping like flies is aweful.”
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jan 15, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
You almost had me at "don't think he shows much leadership in crisis."
But then you went back to the well of “KF should have been back here during Rhabdogate.”
It’s a little like blaming KF for when a RB allegedly abuses some lady in his apartment.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 15, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
No it's not
It is just another example where you disagree with someone because they don’t think KF walks on water.
The way the AD’s office and, by extension, Ferentz handled the Rhabdo situation was simply, objectively, god-awful. They weren’t at fault, but the second the situation went bad, they handled in the most ham-fisted manner possible.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jan 15, 2012 4:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No it's not
It is just another example where you disagree with someone because they don’t think KF walks on water.
The way the AD’s office and, by extension, Ferentz handled the Rhabdo situation was simply, objectively, god-awful. They weren’t at fault, but the second the situation went bad, they handled in the most ham-fisted manner possible.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jan 15, 2012 4:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Rhabdo is all. All is rhabdo.
The poisonous tree that taints all fruit.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 15, 2012 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
Rhabdo was a big fucking deal. It changed a few lives. Sorry to burst your bubble.
You can take that cavalier attitude to Happy Valley. That’s, frankly, no longer acceptable.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Man, you get snippy.
When somebody comes back at you. And that’s as nice as I possibly say it (go to ‘Happy Valley’? Seriously.) That’s how you’re going to respond. There is a difference between recognizing that rhabdo was a big deal and using it to continually bolster points that you want to make. (Coker leaving…mix in some rhabdo fallout even though there is absolutely no evidence of rhabdo affecting his decision one way or the other).
I know its a big fucking deal. I just don’t use it to constantly bolster my internet arguments. How ‘cavalier’ of me not to trivialize it that way.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 16, 2012 7:11 AM CST up reply actions
You know what? Why be nice?
’Go to Happy Valley?" Fuck yourself and your condescension, dude.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 16, 2012 7:14 AM CST up reply actions
You're the one that turned my point from Barta has done nothing
to Rhabdo is blown out of proportion. I’m sorry to inform you, but guys ending up in the hospital isn’t blown out of proportion for some people, most people I would hope. And you still have not pointed to anything to support Barta other than guys graduate and makes money.
And as for your offended attitude, you fired the first snippy shot by trivializing my question:
Maybe he should fire Ferentz and Brands just to have something to do?
So please, quit playing the victimized. And yes, Happy Valley is a lesson to be learned for college football programs. Cavalier attitudes will impact your program and impact lives.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Yes, that certainly is comparable...
to calling someone equal to a child-molesting apologist. The fact that you think that is OK shows the type of arrogance that constantly drips from your posts as if you think you’ve just submitted the next jaw-dropping expose for the New Republic.
There is a difference between realizing something is a big deal and triviliazing it in order to bootstrap arguments. Your use of it has become akin to all the talking-heads at the turn of this century that used 9-11 as some sort of rhetorical high horse in order to justify anything, no matter how unrelated. “Coker leaving….probably has to do with rhabdo fall-out. Disagree? You obviously don’t care about Rhabdo! Go to Happy Valley, you scumbag!”
As for the other arguments, it is pointless to try and go back and forth with you. I’ve told you the reasons I think Barta is doing an adequate job as AD and now you’re saying “You haven’t given me any other reasons other than the reasons you’ve given me”
You’ve changed it to me having to prove to you that Barta is the epitome of an AD. You’re the one that made the statement, I’m not going to constantly try to kick the ball through your moving goalpoasts. I mean, you’ve now taken the tactic of claiming your viewpoint has to do with non-revenue sports (never mentioned in your initial posts) and claimed the viewpoint of an aggreived swimming/cross-country fan. I’m sure you’re there watching every rowing meet.
In short, I don’t care about the AD argument that much. But your Happy Valley comment was totally uncalled for, but I’m not holding my breath for you to admit it.*
*By the way, saying we need to learn from Happy Valley is a country mile from saying that I belong there, but you know that.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 16, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
I said you can take your cavalier attitude to Happy Valley
which is not saying “go to Happy Valley” it’s heightening the point that cavalier attitudes about health and well being of kids has consequences that need not being the community of Iowa football.
It seems you’re now saying anyone who mentions Rhabdo is a reactionary (fill-in-the-blank), and that’s your prerogative.
My issue is not that you think Barta is a perfectly capable AD. Lots of people think that. That is the whole point that elicits my original comment. People think he is a perfectly fine AD, why? For goodness sakes, why?
We have your answer, he graduates guys and makes money. Thanks. Bottom line, this back and forth between you and me devolved when you said:
Rhabdo is all. All is rhabdo.
The poisonous tree that taints all fruit.
At that point it went south.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Just when I think I've heard it all
I then hear someone telling another to go fuck rain, snow and other stuff that falls out of the sky. I can’t wait to go tell someone to go fuck a snowdrift.
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Jan 17, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
It's another wonderful example
how there can be a lot of people in charge, yet somehow no one’s responsible.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
How exactly did he back into hiring Fran?
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
yes, this
Fran was a good hire, and I don’t think it was entirely expected.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jan 13, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions
Barta wanted Utah's Jim Boylen first and foremost
the same Jm Boylen that Utah fired one year later. Boylen turned down Fran (thank God!). Then he tried to hire Brian Gregory. That was failure number two. Rumor was that Izzo told Gregory not to take the job because he was pissed Barta fired Lickliter. Gregory is Izzo’s bitch it seems. Gregory told Barta he would not interview until his season was over (Dayton was in the NIT I think at the time) which was clearly a backhanded “no”.Barta may have then tried to hire Tulsa coach Doug Wojcik but maybe not.
Meanwhile, McCaffery was offered a job by Seton Hall and St. Johns, neither of whom could offer what Iowa could. Fran saw that there was tons of buzz here on the east coast about him and kind wandered on to the scene and stole him. He deserves credit for getting Fran, don’t get me wrong. But the notion that he targeted Fran as his guy is wrong. His guy was Jim Boylen who is out of college basketball now.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jan 13, 2012 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
So if there isn't much turnover in Iowa sports because the teams aren't bad enough
to be firing and hiring new coaches in these sports every couple years, you hold that against Barta?
by clay-born to party on Jan 15, 2012 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
No, I hold against him nothing. I said he wasn't a great AD
then articulated my rationale for that assessment. No one has made a counter rationale that he’s above average. So, I assume every either agrees with my assessment or isn’t capable of supporting their assessment that he’s above average with any facts. They just want to feel like he’s a good dude doing a good job. So, that’s fine. Feel good everyone.
By the way, here is an AWSOME article that touches on the way the athletic department operates win crisis:
http://hawkcentral.com/2012/01/14/hansen-commentary-coker-case-shows-university-a-closed-society/
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jan 15, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Nobody but you has provided facts.
Your argument is ‘any monkey can do what Barta does and have the level of success he has.’ That can neither be proven or disproven by facts. You don’t know that someone can have the same level of success as Barta. You just ‘feel’ like that is true.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 15, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
I'm looking at his resume. If he left Iowa to go get another job what is his pitch?
Make it for us. You strike me as the kind of guy who would hire him.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Barta's claim to fame?
Bloodpunch muthafuckas. Arf arf arf!
Barta, bitches.
"Gophers are filthy digging rats"
-one of HFMR's many amazing tags
"It's Northwestern," he explained. "A smart school."
-TMart on jNW reading signals
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jan 14, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
It something really important to remember and it gets lost due to the fishbowl...
Ferentz really does lead a program that is about molding men. He really does. Listen to the radio show and the ex-players that call in. They have a ton of respect for him and it blows my mind how much he remembers about each ex-player.
The running back situation is unfortunate, to say the least, but its a small sliver of the men that Ferentz coaches and we should all remember that.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 15, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
There are three KF's though, just as there are about five or six Joe Paternos
there is the KF of the last three or four years, there there are the middle years, and finally, the early Ferentz who was trying to prove himself. The one from the last three or four years is not nearly as airtight as the Ferentz of the early years, and the middle years Ferentz was, I don’t know, mistake prone and a little lost in the headlights?
In my opinion, KF was allowed those middle years. He made mistakes in how he went about recruiting and building the team and he seemed to learn some tough lessons about maintaing a winning program, and many assumed the 2009 season was the newly rejuvenated and refreshed and clearer thinking Ferentz. I’m not so sure now. I think the newest Ferentz is entirely too stubborn, defensive, and while he is probably very good to his players who really, really tow the line he seems like a guy who does not suffer fools otherwise. If this were the NFL I’d understand, but it’s not. I think KF is capable of more than he is giving Iowa right now.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jan 15, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Do we not think he made mistakes in his first 3 years?
Wasn’t KF the guy who presided over the three-headed QB monster of Mullen, McCann, and Reiners?
Did he not bring in some douche-bags in those early years (B. Sapp)?
We didn’t mind, because he was improving every year. But once you get to three 10-win seasons, it is very difficult to not take a step back.
He made mistakes in how he went about recruiting and building the team and he seemed to learn some tough lessons about maintaing a winning program, and many assumed the 2009 season was the newly rejuvenated and refreshed and clearer thinking Ferentz. I’m not so sure now. I think the newest Ferentz is entirely too stubborn, defensive, and while he is probably very good to his players who really, really tow the line he seems like a guy who does not suffer fools otherwise.
And why is it a good thing to “suffer fools”? In the current environment of the university administration and IC law enforcement, I think it is actually smart for KF to look a bit more “no-nonsense” and to look like he isn’t coddling guys who have possibly-serious character flaws.
Football at Iowa is cyclical. For our 3 best coaches, they win a Big Ten title or two, and then they have to rebuild. We are pretty fortunate when the re-building times stay above .500.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 15, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Because not suffering fools in a college atmosphere is tantamount to saying
you care only about winning, not molding young men. In teaching, it is the mistake that allows for the greatest, and easiest entry point.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
In life,
it is the assault that allows for the greatest, and easiest, entry point into the slam.
Seriously, I think our coaches and staffs are teaching the players some life lessons, without just throwing them off the team. I think most Hawkeye players would support that.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 15, 2012 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
Hey Clayborn, so you just dislike critical analysis or do you have a counter argument to make
to vigorously support Gary Barta/Kirk Ferentz on the specific topic being discussed here?
I hope BHGP does not devolve into some site that smacks of a kind of Dr. Phil Kumbaya apologist site where people who reason an argument that is critical of one thing or another are seen merely as “haters.” That’s just pathetic.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jan 15, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
If anything, it's the opposite.
People that are supportive of Iowa’s staff are told that we’re pie in the sky people that think Kirk can do no wrong. I can’t even come to this site following an Iowa loss anymore.
The counter-argument is simple. We graduate a lot of players. The running backs are not a true representative of how many players we graduate and how many men we mold.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 15, 2012 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
"Just another example where you disagree with someone because you don't think Kirk walks on water"
Took approximately three hours.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jan 15, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
That's not true
There are a some extremists on either side of the “is KF any good” debate, but I don’t think SMA is one of them. The impression I get from him, and Vint and Ross and a lot of other frequent posters is that they are somewhere in the middle.
Kirk Ferentz is a very good coach and has been very good for the program. SMA has said as much before, I think he used the word “excellent” though. KF also has some glaring flaws that just hang out there for anybody to see. One of the big ones is how he handles the press and information in general. It’s pathetic. This isn’t a privately owned NFL team. This is the flagship program for a public institution. Right or wrong, the way Ferentz runs the program is a big part of how the outside world perceives the University of Iowa.
I’m going to pick on a couple people here. Chazz will strongly oppose what I just wrote. That’s the way he is. It gets frustrating as hell because he refuses to acknowledge any of KF’s flaws and can get rather vocal about it. On the other side, The Bird Cult wants Ferentz fired sometime yesterday. He doesn’t acknowledge any of KF’s good points. It gets just as annoying as Chazz’s attitude.
I’ll go a step further than SMA and say that I hope BHGP doesn’t devolve to either of those extremes or worse, a group on each side screaming at each other. For the most part we seem to be able to have reasonable, if sometimes heated discussions. The other threat that I have seen happen to every single site I’ve frequented is that we get overrun by idiots posting shit. I hope that the niche nature of the subject can prevent that. We’ll see.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
Some of that I agree with,
but I must disagree with about two points.
First, while Ferentz and the Iowa athletic department’s press dealings are sometimes bad, I can’t quite call them pathetic.
Secondly, I don’t disagree that Ferentz and other leaders of Iowa football have flaws. All humans do. I just don’t think we need to keep hammering them for it. Particularly the part about talking quickly to the press.
Write a piece or make a comment or two. But, it seems to me that some around here do way more than that. It makes it seem like they (Stoops, Hoya, a few others, maybe Vint) seem to think that plenty of guys out there could have done the same at Iowa as Ferentz has done over the last 10 or 12 years. I don’t feel the same. And while I don’t think Ferentz walks on water, (and I’d prefer we had less players in legal hot water over the last decade), I also don’t get super-angry when the team loses a game it shouldn’t, or when the team finishes a game over .500.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 16, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
I dont think just anyone could have done what Ferentz has done
And, in the balance, KF has been a big positive for Iowa. Where you and I differ, Chazz, is that I don’t believe Ferentz’s earlier successes give him carte blanche to keep screwing up in the same way, over and over again. Nor do I reflexively absolve him of all responsibility when something goes wrong. You seem to take the view that Ferrentz should be given all the credit whenever something goes well, but he is never responsible for any of the downside. I think he shares the eraonsibility for both.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jan 16, 2012 12:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
er
…responsibility for both
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Jan 16, 2012 12:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If I thought he was "going Saban"
and running guys off, perhaps I could feel that way.
I don’t think he is.
And obviously, it is well-established that I think it is more difficult to beat ISU and the big ten teams we lose to than most of us think or say it is. I realize only a few people around here understand that viewpoint.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 16, 2012 11:08 PM CST up reply actions
Have you noticed that you spend more time "reasoning arguments that is/are critical"
than enjoying the successes that Iowa does earn?
And yes, I fully realize that I tend to do the opposite (quickly leaving the problems and losses behind to try to find some enjoyment of the wins/good things we do see.)
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jan 15, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
I've noticed that I have opinions about the way things are going. Yes.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jan 15, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
I am pretty much in the same boat, I realize I complain a lot during the Bball game threads
but sports are about enjoyment. I don’t care to do much critical thinking about sports.
by clay-born to party on Jan 15, 2012 10:55 PM CST up reply actions
I was just messing around, because I think people are overly negative about
our “attrition problem of running kids out of the program” when in reality, it seems to me it is just a rough time at one position. We are still one of the top schools around for graduating football players and transfers and such hurt that score.
by clay-born to party on Jan 15, 2012 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Also I have made my counter argument in other threads but was called
a Ferentz apologist, wearing rose colored glasses, believe everything I hear, etc.
by clay-born to party on Jan 15, 2012 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
I've seen the arguments believe me...but let's just try to remain specific once things get a little heated.
An off handed slap at someone’s comments, in my book, is totally acceptable. We’re not exactly writing term papers here, with citations and bibliographies. We’re reading and writing in time, often in a reactionary way. But these threads can sometimes mushroom into something more substantial than quick witty repartee and get very interesting.
So, when some people continue to slap instead of transition into a more thoughtful argument seems far less interesting to me. I’l be the first to admit that I (too) often use a tone that might be off putting but my content is my content. The issues remain to be discussed. And, given that Iowa football has had a fair share of crises in the past year and a half (and certainly the Big Ten has had them) it only stands to reason that the community can become divided and disagreement will ensue. My goal is to get my point of view out there, just like most everyone else. And sure, I am also trying to persuade people, there is no use trying not to because it would unavoidable — all communication is persuasive.
The upshot, I don’t see the harm in the disagreements. I don’t see the harm even in the occasional poor tone. I don’t see the harm in protracted arguing even. But when people make it personal and leave the issue that was discussed in the first place, then I get rubbed wrong. The better ending to me is to agree to disagree.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Just to poke the bear, who recruited Derby?
Morgan? What’s his track record?
You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!
by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Jan 17, 2012 1:53 PM CST reply actions

















