Greg Schiano Suggests Getting Rid Of The Kickoff; Why Not?
"I just remember thinking, ‘Why do we have to have kickoffs? Just because we’ve always had them?’ "
Greg Schiano has had good reason to spend a lot of time thinking about the nature of the kickoff in football -- when one of your players suffers a devastating injury during a play like that, it's natural to give it a little more thought than you otherwise would -- and he's wondering if there might not be a better way to do things. Schiano's contention (and it's one shared by multiple observers) is that the kickoff in football is the most dangerous play in the game and it yields a disproportionate number of injuries (particularly severe injuries).
This is Schiano’s plan: Replace all kickoffs with a punting situation, including after the opening coin toss and to start the second half. So, as an example, when Team A scores a touchdown, it immediately gets the ball back on a fourth and 15 from its own 30-yard line.
It can punt it back to Team B — the most likely outcome and a safer play since the bigger collisions usually happen on kickoffs.
Or it can line up and go for the first down, essentially replacing an onside kick with an offensive play that would require more skill than luck.
Schiano's plan is intriguing from multiple standpoints, particularly from a player safety vantage point and a pure competition standpoint. From a player safety standpoint, it's not entirely clear how much this change would help lessen the spate of serious injuries in football. Anecdotally, it seems to make sense: we all remember gruesome injuries on kickoffs, like Rutgers' Eric LeGrand or the Buffalo Bills' Kevin Everett, and from a common sense standpoint few things seem more terrifying (or likely to produce devastating injuries) than kick returns, where incredibly fast and impossibly strong players go full-sprint for 70 yards before colliding with another player at full speed.
That said, there's a fairly woeful dearth of data on this matter and it's something that really requires further investigation. Some of the data that is out there does seem to support the notion that kickoffs are more destructive than other plays, though. Given that Schiano's plan involves replacing kick returns with punt returns, though, we also need to determine how much safer (if at all) punt returns are than kick returns.
From a pure competition standpoint, though, Schiano's plan is very intriguing. The ability to "go for it" on a play that mirrors 4th-and-15 (or perhaps 4th-and-20 if you felt fifteen yards wasn't enough) offers up a host of possibilties to teams that just aren't there under the current kickoff system. Most onside kicks in expected situations (i.e., attempted comebacks at the end of a game) require a hefty dose of luck in order to be successful -- the ball needs to bounce just right, an opposing player needs to drop the ball, etc. -- which makes it harder for them to be effective. Converting 4th-and-15 (or 4th-and-20) wouldn't be easy, but it also wouldn't require as much luck as most onside kicks, which might make it easier for teams to mount comebacks late in the game. It might also make less risk-averse coaches (like, say, Mike Leach) more apt to take a gamble early in a game in an attempt to bury a team early. The difficulty of converting 4th-and-15 (or 4th-and-20 or whatever) is still going to keep coaches from "going for it" too often; most coaches are probably still going to punt the ball away when the percentages tell them to do so. But it could add some interesting wrinkles to the game.
Everyone understands that football is inherently a violent game and there's a limit to how much you can curtail that violence. That said, there's also a point when injuries become too debilitating and, perhaps, too prevalent and when rules ought to be changed. The rules of football are not etched in stone; they've changed many times over the past century, and they'll probably change many more over the course of the next century. And, yes, kickoffs can be a breathtaking play to watch -- at their best, there might not be any play in football that's more aesthetically pleasing and Iowa fans know a thing or two about nice kickoff returns. On the other hand, the vast majority of kickoffs are not breathtaking to behold: players sprint forward for roughly 20 yards before running into a large pile of players and getting crunched to the ground.
Schiano's idea may not be perfect, but it's an interesting one -- and one worthy of further discussion and development. Football's a physical game, but if there's a way to prevent (or limit) players from turning into the next Eric LeGrand or Kevin Everett, it might be worth considering a change.
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Why not?
Because we’re not the god-damned XFL, that’s why.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 8, 2011 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
In Iowa punting is winning.
yes
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Jun 8, 2011 1:06 PM CDT reply actions
interesting
An interesting idea though i doubt it would come to fruition. Didn’t the NCAA move back kickoffs 5 yards for more “exciting” plays at the expense of safety?
impossible is nothing
No, they went the other direction this offseason.
I believe it’s the 40 instead of the 30 that they kickoff from now.
Skol!
Not that this isn't worth discussing, but a better, arguably less radical idea, that is dismissed even if it supported by Joe Paterno and Mike Ditka:
Get rid of the facemask, and maybe the helmet itself. If the chances of danger become higher, the other, very, very nasty risks from using the helmet as a weapon could quite possibly decrase signifigantly. And it would definitely have a larger impact – good or bad – than one play.
"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."
immediately thought of this comparison as well
Worth thinking about equipping the guys to be safe but not into a sense of security where they’re using themselves as weapons. Makes them rationalize the decision much in the way that guys decide when (and on which courts) to wildly dive for a loose ball?
I've been in love (truly) with five women, the Spanish Republic and the 4th Infantry Division.
by sailorjerry on Jun 8, 2011 1:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
My body is a weapon
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
My weapon is a body
I couldn’t find a pic where they are tossing each other around as weapons, but do not mess around with Tim Tom and Kevin, the Murderous Moppets.

by HawkeyeRecon on Jun 8, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
What the hell is this?
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Venture Bros FTW
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Jun 8, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It looks like something I would like
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions
A friend introduced me to it
Had the first few seasons on DVD. The first few episodes were a bit of a mindfuck but it really grows on you and turns out to be quite hilarious.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Jun 8, 2011 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Its very funny. A comedic take on the 60's Johnny Quest super scientists and villians.
One hilarious main character is the hyper masculine bodyguard Brock Samson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_gfwpj2-00&NR=1
He’s into muscle cars and Led Zeppelin.
An example of a strange minor character is Dr Henry Killinger and his Magic Murder Bag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNqZ7qsWpJc
Yeah, that's another very interesting option that never seems to gain much traction.
(Personally, I think it has something to do with how counter-intuitive it seems.)
That said, Schiano’s proposal intrigues me because in addition to the player safety issue, there’s the issue of what being able to “go for it” on a 4th-and-15-type play would mean versus attempting an onside kick. I think that opens up some intriguing possibilties from a competitive standpoint. Onside kicks are extremely low percentage plays, after all.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
RUGBY!!!
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Very interesting ...
If I remember correctly, football was in similar jeopardy about a century ago. Players used to be able to form a line and hold hands on kickoffs. The result? Players were getting mowed down and dying on the field. The situation got so bad, Teddy Roosevelt threatened to ban the game if changes weren’t adopted (By the way, TR is my favorite president/American badass ever).
I’d like to see Schiano’s idea given a try. It sounds as if safer play would result, plus it adds a greater element of strategy to the game than exists with the current kickoff standard.
What about the return? It’s the most exciting play in football! Well, we’d still have punt returns. Those are pretty exciting. And besides, unless you’re kicking to Devin Hester the end result of a kickoff is frequently a kneel-down in the end zone. How exciting is that? With this idea you get a return or a conversion attempt almost every time.
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 1:39 PM CDT reply actions
You're thinking of the "legalization" of the forward pass
which was a 15 yard penalty if it was incomplete before then.
In the name of the Woody, the Bo, and the Mustache Ride. Amen.
Perhaps you are correct...
One too many concussions, I guess…
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
The "flying wedge", that's called.
Outlawed in 1894. Grover Cleveland was in the White House, and had nothing to do with it (despite his mustache being somewhat wedge-shaped)
Brunettes not fighter jets
About that game.
It’s arguable that Iowa was the better team except for one position: cornerback. All I remember about Iowa’s cornerbacks is that the one guy was a walking, running pass interference penalty and I guess the other guy was basically that too.
"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
That describes most of our corners for the majority of Ferentz's tenure, actually.
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on Jun 8, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Shada!
"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure about that.
We remember the painful indignities of DJ Johnson and Adam Shada, but we’d have quite a few good—>very good corners, too.
Allen and Jovon Johnson became pretty solid after they got some experience and the corners since Shada have all been good or very good. There were even a few pretty good corners in the early days of Ferentz’s tenure (like Matt Stockdale, unless my memory is deceiving me).
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Yeah, I may just be thinking thru 2007 or so.
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on Jun 8, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Allen and Jovon Johnson were very good
put they were painfully short. It’s a bit of an over-generalization, but it seemed like forever under Ferentz we could get one of the following in a corner back: (a) proper size or (b) good speed and coverage skills. Allen and Johnson could cover, but at 5’8" each, they were giving up 6-8 inches on the typical WR they faced. Shada had more prototypical size, but couldn’t cover a corpse. It wasn’t until relatively recently that Iowa seems to have focused more on recruiting corners with closer-to-ideal size and coverage abilities, it seems to be an area of focus/concern for the coaches recently.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Yeah, height was part of it too.
I just seem to remember our corners having their backs to the ball as it was in the air A LOT. And then they’d try to time it just right and jump sorta up & at the WR, resulting in an interference penalty.
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on Jun 8, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...
They were definitely short and that caused a few problems (Michigan in 2004, for instance), but I rarely felt like they were a liability on the field in 03-05. (I could not say the same about DJ Johnson in 02 or Shada in 06-07.)
I wholeheartedly agree that the cornerback recruiting has improved dramatically over the last 5-6 years, though, and we’re now getting guys with size AND ability, which is very nice indeed.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Didn't Allen lead the country in pass interference penalties one year?
I thought I remembered hearing that at one time.
by Kinnick Stadium is my Graceland on Jun 8, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
That does sounds plausible.
To be honest, I may have allowed my intense fondness for the rest of the Iowa defenders from that era spill over to Antwan.
My enduring memory of Allen is of him trying to seemingly intimidate receivers into going down by vibrating and shaking in front of them — rather than, y’know, tackling them. Twanphysics, we called it.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
James Hardy + Adam Shada = Spooky Hawkeye Nightmare
"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants
Ah yes, DJ Johnson and Antwan Allen.
Not so good, those two.
At least Allen got better.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
I think that the with the way Banks was used, they were better at qb too
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
So what happens to kickers?
Does the position just fade away? And if so, the NFL would need to make the same changes as the NCAA.
Big Ten football: All day. Every day.
Actually If I had my way
I would have a palace full of voluptuous slaves fanning me and feeding me grapes.
And I would eliminate the extra point, the most useless fucking play in the history of all sports.
by Corncob Justice on Jun 9, 2011 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Punting vs kicking
Punting sometimes requires that you take your eye off the field and look up… it’s a potential fumble if you’re receiving and the ball hits you, and it’s a penalty if the ball hits you if you’re punting (at least it used to be). That part always sucked…. getting nailed by a guy when you were looking straight up for the ball was one of the harder hits I ever took.
I don’t know why punting would be considered safer than kickoffs.
Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!
Twitter!
cornnation@gmail.com
Kick catch interference rules
And fewer tacklers. When was the last time that a whole gang of tacklers hit a punt returner?
I don’t think anyone is trying to say that punts are 100% safe, but I’d wager that they’re at least significantly (50%?) less dangerous than kick-offs.
by The Mexican't on Jun 8, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
You know, everyone said that forcing hockey players to wear helmets would kill the NHL, and...
actually, on second thought, that isn’t a good example.
"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 8, 2011 2:21 PM CDT reply actions
what about punt blocks?
Seems like that is a sizeable advantage for the return team that they don’t currently have with kickoffs
by Eubanks on Jun 8, 2011 2:39 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think this could really hurt the defense in late-game situations.
You think Iowa’s players were gassed in the 4th quarter last year? Now, after they just got scored on for being gassed and a team is now within a TD, get them to stop the other team on 4th & 15. And then if they don’t, to do it again.
Fatigue is a major cause in injuries. I could see a bunch of fatigued defenses of teams that are leading in the 4th.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Another evolution, then
Defenders will have to drop some lbs to stay fresh at the endgame.
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Or teams actually embrace defensive rotations a bit more.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
What's the success rate of a 4th & 15 conversion?
It’s got to be in the single digits.
by The Mexican't on Jun 8, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting question.
Intuition says it should be higher than an onside kick, but the onside conversion rate in the NFL is 26% (or about 20% when teams are expecting it as opposed to including surprise onside kicks). I would guess the 4th & 15 conversion rate to be well under 20%.
Would this actually be a hindrance on teams trying to come back?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jun 8, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Per the article with the Schiano plan:
Onside kicks work about a quarter of the time in the NFL, according to the website advancednflstats.com, a deceptive figure because the play is far more successful when the other team isn’t expecting it. Schiano isn’t sure if going for it on fourth and 15 is a higher percentage play — according to the same website, it’s about 18 percent or 19 percent — but success would be less dependent on a favorable bounce.
So it may actually be less successful.
Although, as the article notes, at least success or failure would probably come down to actual skill and execution rather than luck.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
So if only one in every five 4th & 15 attempt is successful, defense should have little problem getting off the field.
Even if they’re already tired.
Fake punts wouldn’t necessarily get to take advantage of defensive exhaustion due to the special units that would be on the field. Basically, the defense, or team which was just scored upon, is always better prepared to handle the 4th & 15 conversion which Schiano suggests. I like the idea, but can’t think of a way to put it thru a trial without potentially ruining a season if it fails miserably.
by The Mexican't on Jun 8, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
This should be what NFL preseason games are used for
to try out new rules. Haven’t they used preseason as a trial for rules before, even if there was little doubt those rules would stick? Maybe I’m thinking of something else. The only difference is the rule would have to make its way down to NCAA. There wouldn’t be much overlap in schedule.
Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.
by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 8, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
And High School games
cause we want our kids to, y’know, actually make it to college healthy.
"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 10, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
most defensive starters due punt return
a lot, anyway
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
They wouldn't have to, though.
As punts become more prominent, the squad could be more refined. True specialists.
by The Mexican't on Jun 10, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I suggest we just get rid of kickers
the kickoff would be a hell of a lot more fun if, say, the opposing team could choose who had to actually kick the ball off.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I would choose Denard...BTW
then have the entire team block him into a body cast. Now, that’s football.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I agree to an extent.
I’ve seen footage of Marv Cook kicking off…simply incredible.
"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."
by ReadingRambler on Jun 8, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, and what exactly is Gable doing in that statue pose?
oh, sorry, wrong thread.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
It's a variation
Of the Dismissive Wanking Motion. Not quite a Dutch Rudder, but more likely to take hold of some part of you you’re not prepared for.
jtothetweet
"You know why I carry this baseball bat around? So when I poop a wildcat I can hit him over the head." - Dan Gable
Some sort of cheering/instructive gesture during a match,
it would appear:

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 8, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Notre Dame
has touchdown Jesus.. we have Human Water Sprinkler Gable
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Jun 8, 2011 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
As long as he doesn't do that annoying "sss...sss...sss...sss" sound while he does that move.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 8, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Awesome! He could also be starting the weed eater
Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.
by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 8, 2011 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Why does the scoring team get the ball back?
An intriguing idea, but I don’t agree with that part. Why not give it to the scored-upon team on their 20 yard line instead?
Technically, the scoring team gets the ball back under the current system.
They just choose to kick off 95% of the time. But there’s nothing to stop them from onsiding it every single time and attempting to retain possession.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Haha, that would be so great.
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on Jun 8, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
It really would be fantastic.
I’d love to see a team that had some unstoppable onside kickoff technique just use it to never let the other team’s offense have the ball.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Or even if they were only marginally unstoppable -
it’d be great just for the sheer dickishness of it.
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on Jun 8, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm surprised Beilema hasn't figured that out yet.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Jun 8, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I recall Morten Andersen successfully converting 3 straight
when he was kicking for the Falcons after the first 2 were called back for offsides. It was a sort of grenade lob kick and the Falcons had about 8 guys just obliterate the front receivers/blockers in a tight mass and 2-3 “hands” sweepers in the middle of that mass. I believe that specific idea/formation was the genesis for the rule change that disallowed completely loading on one side. That seemed incredibly dangerous as I recall.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jun 8, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Because of games that come down to the wire.
Teams losing at the end of games have always had the chance to kick an onside to regain possession to have a shot at winning the game. If one team scores and the other team immediately gets the ball, it’s pretty much game over. This suggestion at least gives the possiblity for regaining possession which, like the onside kick option.
Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.
by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 8, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Cuz that takes any element of fun and excitement out of it.
And it’s not like it’s completely “free” risk. If they don’t get their one play of 15 yds, they give the ball to the team they just scored on, 40 or less yards from the goalline.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
it's "make it, take it."
and Mike Leach could conceivably go a whole game (or at least a half) without giving up possession
As a fan of healthy players, this makes some sense
As an Iowa fan, I don’t want to give our coaches 5-10 times more a game to not look for the fucking fake punt
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
I love the idea that someone would have the stones to seal the game from their own 30 with a fake punt.
Where on the field was Wisconsin when Bielema embarrassed Ferentz last year?
by The Mexican't on Jun 8, 2011 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Bielema has stones. (Gall stones, probably, given his diet of cheese curds and beer.)
But, seriously, Wisco was on their own 26-yard line when they ran that fake punt last year.
I’m sure some coaches WOULD go for it on the 4th-and-15 “kickoff” and try to retain possession and end the game that way rather than punting away and hoping the defense holds on.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Oh, I don't doubt that some coaches would go for it.
I just love the idea of the sneak attack being a fake punt. Putting potential game-ending play on the shoulders of a punt team just seems like the mother of all football risks.
by The Mexican't on Jun 8, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
If it's from your own 30
I can’t imagine a coach trying 4th and 15 to retain possession. From the 50 maybe, but if you go for it and fail, the other team is already in FG range.
Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.
He will rue the day....
AS GOD AS MY WITNESS HE WILL PLEAD FOR THE SWEET RELEASE OF DEATH WHEN I MAKE HIM PAY FOR THE SINS OF THAT TRICKERY!
Not still angry. Not at all.
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm in favor of this plan
As long as Conference USA officials are never reffing an instance where Iowa goes for it.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Still too early!
"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST
50 years from now
It’ll still be too soon for that
Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.
I remember being at that game and saying there was no way it was offsides, I was watching for it
I was vehement. I got a call from a friend watching it from home after the replay confirmed it, and it just made me even more upset.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jun 8, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
That call was simply the cherry on top
of the shit-sundae of refereeing that transpired that die. There were a handful of calls in the first half where the refs gift-wrapped the game for Florida, including a trule bizarre unncessary roughness call on Iwebema that was a complete fabrication which allowed a stopped Florida drive to continue, ultimately leading to another TD right before the half (if the call had been made correctly, Iowa would have gotten the ball back and probably would have run out the clock in the first half, leaving the 2nd half deficit not so huge).
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Speaking of this game
Zach Johnson tweeted that he was at some event with Urban Meyer yesterday, and the Urbs said he agreed the refs got the play wrong (which one?!?!?!) but Florida still would’ve won. Asshat.
by Captain n Diet Coker on Jun 9, 2011 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions
This is the funny thing about that play.
Sure Greenway appeared to be onsides, but recovering the kick doesn’t mean Iowa wins the game. That seems to get lost in the hubub surrounding the call.
by The Mexican't on Jun 9, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, it wasn't just that one play.
It was a culmination of all the botched calls that makes me think, “What if?”
I had a different one word response.
Meh.
by The Mexican't on Jun 9, 2011 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
WHY CAN'T YOU ACKNOWLEDGE REFS ARE EVIL AND HATE IOWA
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jun 9, 2011 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but not even having the chance was the kick in the junk.
We has ALL the momentum. All. The. Momentum.
Could we have been stopped? Sure. Should we have had the chance to find out? Absofuckinglutely.
"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 10, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I was going to say
“require a hefty dose of luck in order to be successful — the ball needs to bounce just right, an opposing player needs to drop the ball,”, not to be TOTALLY FUCKED OVER BY THE REFS, etc
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 8, 2011 5:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
How about putting all special teamers in
inflatable sumo wrestling custume’s? Sounds safe
"He was the one that didn't give us a touchdown, ... He didn't officiate for us again." ...Hayden Fry
by chuck longs mom on Jun 8, 2011 4:39 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Also: hilarious.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Well that's pretty much the best idea I've ever heard.
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on Jun 8, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm liking this idea.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Jun 8, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, so let's say Iowa is playing jNW (b/c I know how much eveyone loves the 'Cats)
Iowa scores and decides to go for it on 4th and 15 from their 30 but only gets 5 yards. That would mean jNW gets the ball on the Iowa 35. One first down and they can kick a field goal. Or incomplete pass nets no yards at all and JNW has it on the Iowa 30.
I understand when to use the 4th and 15 would be situational but I’m not sure I’m a fan of this option.
I have to imagine
if the 4th and 15 was not successful, the transition from offense to defense would also include moving the ball to the 20 (or so?) on the other side of the field. Otherwise…yeah, that would be an end of game nightmare.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 8, 2011 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Moving the ball to the 20 after a failed conversion gives the team with a 4th down no reason to punt the ball.
The whole idea behind punt or go is that failing a conversion attempt means surrendering poor field position. It’s no different than failing to convert an onside kick.
Not many teams would attempt to convert the fourth downs. Not regularly, at least.
by The Mexican't on Jun 8, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
I’m being an idiot, the heat has clearly broken my brain. I keep thinking that punting isn’t an option in this situation, not kicking off.
Punting is winning.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 8, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I love kickoff returns.
Yes, they involve a lot of speed and a (usually) inevitable jarring hit. But we can’t eliminate all the danger from football. Eventually, we’ll have some sort of weird partially synchronized dancing, and I don’t need that.
What’s next? Stop playing when there is rain or snow or the temp is below 30 degrees? Stop play when any player is knocked to the ground? Stop play when any player is moving at full speed and could possibly be injured?
/yes, I’m exaggerating, but I also don’t want to wake up in 8 years and not be able to recognize a game that gives me, and so many, a lot of joy.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
Sadly, if they don't do SOMETHING about those jarring, brain damage causing hits
there won’t be ANY game for us to enjoy, because it’ll either be outlawed or the quality of play will degrade to the point it’s not fun to watch as athletes begin to migrate to other sports that don’t include the likelihood of life-altering brain damage.
I agree with you that big hits are a significant part of football. However, that culture was created when the biggest guy on the team might be 275 pounds and the fastest guy ran a 4.6 forty. Today, those two guys would be smaller and slower than the typical DE. It’s the same reason that before long, basketball will have to do something about the size of the court/height of the rim. The players are getting taller, faster, bigger and that trend will only continue.
Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.
I understand that viewpoint,
but I’m not sure it will play out as you say.
Yes, in my community, it seems as though less kids play football now than they did 15 or 20 years ago. I’m not sure this will lead to some huge breakdown in the system that colleges and professional leagues use to get players.
Also, people act like football is some sort of glorified league of dogfighting that Congress is itching to ban. I think, because of football’s prevalence at the professional, semi-pro, college, high school, and youth levels; as well as its financial and cultural importance (see Thanksgiving weekend, or the Super Bowl), I don’t think severe hinderance or outright banning are imminent.
The concussion issue is troubling to many. But it is not the end of the world, or the end of football. People still box and watch boxing, people still watch and participate in auto-racing (and other types of vehicular racing or extreme sports), and MMA has grown. Those sports have to have considerable risk of brain injury.
This is America, and you can have my dangerous past-times when you pry them from my concussed, cold, dead hands.
/that all may have sounded too critical of you, benvious. It is not meant that way, but I was trying to dramatically and slightly comically make my point(s).
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 8, 2011 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Not a problem
But you sorta proved my point for me by mentioning boxing. That sport is nearly as dead as horse racing. Why? Because the athletes that used to gravitate toward it are now moving toward other sports because they see what happened to people like Ali. Remember, 50 years ago boxing was either the biggest or second-biggest sport in america. Where does it stand now? Can you even name the current heavyweight champ?
I agree it’s not going to get outright banned – but I can see Congress stepping in and forcing changes to make it safer, especially at the younger levels. However, the talent drain is much more of an issue in my mind, and I agree that you don’t see kids playing it nearly as often as when we were kids. I think the concussion issue is a significant part of that (or the violence of the sport in general).
Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.
275, 4.6 is Shawn Merriman in his prime
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
-- I eat a lot of stuff -- WaterlooChazz
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 8, 2011 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Guys used to hit pretty hard and at more vulnerable targets...
back in the day.
/Dick “Night Train” Lane’d
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 9, 2011 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I Think That I Shal Never See
Apologies to Joyce Kilmer
I THINK that I shall never see
A play as lovely as a kick return.
A kick return whose man is prest
Against the sweet astro turf’s flowing breast;
A kick return that looks at God all day, 5
And lifts his arms to pray;
A kick return – no fair catch
An onside effort at it’s best;
Upon whose bosom is now concussed;
Who intimately lives with pain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a Timmy Dwight kick return.
Long Live the Pellican Whore - like FOREVER
Don't hate the play or the players...
the equipment is too blame. We have essentially weaponized football equipment and glorified spearing to the point that football looks very different than it did a couple of decades ago. Take away the facemasks and make the helmet a soft-shell foam covered by neoprene or kevlar or something. Hard helmets prevent bumps on a head, or as we call them at home “owies”, but offer very little protection from concussions because they don’t significantly diminish sudden deceleration. Disincentivize spearing through removal of facemask and rethink helmet design.
I don't think "no facemasks" is the answer.
We will have a ton of guys getting jabbed in the eye, or having a nose torn open, or having the pretty boys get scars on their cheeks and chins.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 9, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
No blood, no foul
or, penalty I guess.
Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.
by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 9, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
what's wrong with...
looking like a hockey player?
Good idea
Except you guys would just block our punt.
by psu on Jun 9, 2011 12:35 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs



















