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Relegate This: Where Indiana And Illinois Spend Half the Aughts In The MAC

(Bumping this up -- and reopening comments -- because it's Relegation Week at the SBN mothership this week. I also added 2011 data to this post. -- Ross)
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If you've been following the action in European soccer at all over the past few weeks, you've likely been gripped by the drama of the annual promotion/relegation battles that pop up in every league. Relegation adds immense drama to games involving bottom-dwelling teams -- they're fighting to remain at their current level and not only maintain current levels of prestige, but (more importantly) maintain current levels of income; the drop in filthy lucre for teams that drop down a level can be immense. From the standpoint of pure competition, it's also a much fairer system than what we see in American sports, since strong play is rewarded (with opportunities to compete in more lucrative leagues) and poor play is penalized (by being forced to play in less lucrative leagues). Conversely, in American sports, poor play is either not penalized (i.e., college, where Indiana can flounder along for an entire decade but collect the same fat checks from the Big Ten conference as the teams that win the league) or actively rewarded (i.e., pros, where teams like the Pirates, Clippers, and Lions are rewarded with high draft picks to enable them to select the best incoming talent).

I freely acknowledge that relegation will, of course, never ever happen in American sports, at either the professional or collegiate levels. The formats of leagues here are simply too different and there are just too many entrenched interests working against it, no matter how much it might liven things up or create fairer overall systems. But that doesn't mean that we can't still imagine a parallel universe where relegation does exist in America.

College football works fairly well for this thought exercise, since it's already evolved into a heavily tiered system: there's a top flight of BCS schools, a second flight of non-BCS schools in the FBS, a third flight of FCS schools, and so on. Since this is an Iowa blog, I'm going to confine this exercise to the Big Ten and I'm going to use the MAC for the second division, since it's a collection of schools in Big Ten states that all play in that mid-major, non-BCS tier.

Star-divide

It should go without saying, but this is going to be a very limited look at the promotion-relegation issue, mainly just breaking down which teams would have been sent down from the Big Ten each year and which teams from the MAC would have been promoted to replace them. I'm not going to attempt to take a look at this cumulatively, since that would require genuinely creating another universe; the snowball effect of having promotion and relegation in practice would be massive. Coaches from relegated schools might get fired sooner, while coaches from promoted schools might be more apt to stay put. Players from relegated teams might seek to transfer away. The effect on recruiting would be huge. And so on. Plus, it's possible to imagine that in some years a Big Ten might not just yo-yo back into the Big Ten after a year in the MAC -- there were some really awful Big Ten teams in the '00s and it's no sure thing that they would have won the MAC. In that case, we're suddenly dealing with a situation where there are two former Big Ten teams existing in the MAC, and then things start to get really bananas. I'm going to try to avoid venturing down that rabbit hole too far.

Relegation candidates from the Big Ten were determined by looking at conference records in each year; where there was a tie I opted for the tried-and-true main tiebreaker of soccer leagues the world over -- goal differential (or point differential for our purposes). This meant that some teams who had bested the other in head-to-head match-ups wound up being relegated anyway, but hey: maybe they should have tried being less shit in their other games.

Promotion candidates from the MAC were determined by taking the winner of the MAC Championship Game. I could have used the same approach as I did for the Big Ten, and just taken the team with the greatest in-conference record, using point differential to break ties where needed, but that seemed less useful for multiple reasons. One, the MAC schedule is even less balanced* than the Big Ten schedule during this time period, given that they had more teams**. Two, taking the winner of the MAC Championship Game was simply cleaner -- and in some ways, more fair than taking the regular season champion. Three, it was bears some resemblance to the promotion systems in European soccer; in England for instance, the third promoted team for the English Premier League is determined by a four-team playoff (the other two promoted teams are the top two finishers in the second division standings).

* The balance issue is particularly irksome, since one of the reasons promotion and relegation work so well in soccer is because the schedules are perfectly balanced in most leagues: teams play every other team twice, once at home and once away, and that's it. (Scotland is a notable exception here, but Scotland is weird.) Some schedules might be more favorable than others in terms of when certain teams are played, but that's unavoidable; there's never a situation where one team would play one of the top teams in the league, while another team wouldn't play that top team at all. Unfortunately, college football schedules are anything but balanced; in many leagues teams don't even play every other team and even in leagues where there is a true round-robin schedule, the home-away splits can be tricky and unfair. This is also why I looked at just conference records in determining teams for promotion and relegation; conference schedules in college football are far from perfect, but they're infinitely more fair than looking at non-conference schedules, which are all over the map in terms of home/away splits and competitive balance.

** Membership fluctuated wildly in the MAC in this ten-year span. Marshall and UCF were members -- and then they weren't. Then Temple was a member and so on. And please don't ask me why some years some MAC teams played eight games and some played seven. The MAC makes my head hurt sometimes.

Enough preamble. Onwards and upwards!

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2001: Northwestern beat Minnesota, 23-17, but they also lost to Indiana and Iowa by 35+ that year. Thus, in our parallel universe, Northwestern goes from just missing out on a trip to the 2001 Rose Bowl after the 2000 season to being relegated to the MAC after the 2001 season. Needless to say, in this universe, potatoes are not the starch of choice. (FUN FACT: the yuca is the starch of choice over there.)

As a general disclaimer, I'm not going to profess to be an expert on the MAC teams that earn promotion in this parallel universe. I follow Big Ten football closely and pay attention to the MAC only when the semi-annual Big Ten-MAC Challenge rolls around in September and if I happen to be exceptionally bored on a Wednesday evening in October. Our first promoted team is the 2001 Toledo Rockets, who went 9-5 in 2002 and made a repeat trip to the MAC Championship Game. They lost both games against big boy competition (31-21 to Minnesota, 37-19 to Pittsburgh), but the closeness of the Minnesota loss makes it seem like they might have been reasonably competitive in the Big Ten.

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2002: A barnburner! Northwestern avoids relegation in 2002 partially because they bested Indiana, 41-37. They held only one Big Ten team under 30 points (co-champions Ohio State, strangely enough), but fortunately for them Indiana was even more pathetic.

Our MAC representative this year is Marshall, who rumbled to a 11-2 mark in 2002. In 2003, they went 8-4, losing only to Tennessee (34-24), Toledo (24-17), Troy (33-24), and Miami (OH) (45-6). That included a 27-20 win over Kansas State in Manhattan -- a Kansas State team that went on to drub Oklahoma in the Big 12 Championship Game and play in the Fiesta Bowl. They would have been an interesting team in the 2003 Big Ten, particularly considering one of the most wretched Big Ten teams of the '00s took the field that year. Speaking of...

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2003: There was no need for tiebreakers this year; instead we got the '03 Illinois Fighting Illini, the first of the three 0-8 teams to emerge from the Big Ten in the '00s. This particular incarnation of pure suck was the penultimate tango for Ron Turner in Champaign -- yes, penultimate, as in second-to-last. Despite going 0-8 in the league (with a point differential of -205) and 1-11 overall, he was allowed to return for another year, either because A.D. Ron Guenther forgot he existed, or because it would have cost too much to fire him, or because the glow of a trip to the Sugar Bowl lasts just long enough to gloss over even an 0-8 disaster two years later. The Illini cracked 20 points only twice all season and had just one game decided by fewer than 17 points (a 17-14 loss to Indiana). Four Big Ten teams scored 40+ against Illinois, including an Iowa offense led by Nathan Chandler. So, yes, they were truly awful.

As for our MAC representative... lordy, would it have been fun to get even crazier and somehow put the 2003 Miami (OH) team into the Big Ten. Because that squad was arguably the finest MAC team of the '00s -- if not ever. They went 13-1 and swept through the MAC with aplomb (8-0, a +250 point differential). We're a little more familiar with this particular MAC team, too, since Iowa played them -- and handed them their only loss, 21-3, in a game where Roethlisberger threw four interceptions. But the Iowa defense was not only the best they faced all year (by a wide margin), it was one of the finest in the Big Ten, too. It would have been fascinating to see how Big Ben & Co. would have fared with Big Ten teams that year. As far as the 2004 Miami (OH) squad, they were solid -- 8-5 and a return trip to the MAC Championship Game. They didn't fare well against big boy competition, though: a 43-10 loss to Michigan, a 45-26 loss to Cincinnati, and a 17-13 loss to Iowa State in the Independence Bowl.

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2004: Look at the improvement! The Illini cut their point differential almost in half and -- gasp! -- even won a game (over fellow cellar-dweller, Indiana, 26-22). Sadly, that wasn't enough to enable Ron Turner to keep his job -- and it wasn't enough for them to avoid relegation in our parallel universe, either. This Illinois team was certainly more competent than the '03 squad; they had three losses of ten points or less and allowed only one opponent to crack 40 points against them. But they still weren't very good.

The MAC representative this year is Toledo, who went 9-4 and cruised through the MAC. They were very, very poor against BCS competition, though: a 63-21 loss to Minnesota, a 63-14 loss to Kansas, and a 39-10 loss to Connecticut. They were skilled at beating teams as good or worse than them, but woefully out of their depth against everyone else. The 2005 Rockets were a little better (9-3), but they didn't play a single BCS team which makes it hard to discern if they were really much better than the '04 squad that would have crashed and burned in the Big Ten. On the other hand, the team they would have been vying with to avoid relegation in '05 was truly horrible...

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2005: Illinois went 0-8 with a point differential of -257, easily clinching worst in the conference (dis)honors. In fact, they make a pretty compelling case for being the worst Big Ten team of this entire era. The staggering level of their badness is almost too much to comprehend, but let's try. They cracked 20+ points just twice and were held to 10 points or less on four separate occasions, including back to back weeks in which they scored two (2) and three (3) points, respectively. They conceded 36+ in every single conference game, including 40+ in four conference games, and 60+ (!) in two of those games. They were astoundingly uncompetitive in Big Ten play. And yet somehow they managed to win two games that year against FBS competition, Rutgers and San Jose State. Still, in Big Ten play, they were absolutely atrocious and it's hard to envision a team more deserving of relegation than this putrid squad.

In 2005, parity hit the MAC, as no team went better than 6-2 in league play and a 5-3 Akron team won the MAC Championship Game. Buyer beware, though: that Akron team went 7-6 overall and got absolutely drilled on more than one occasion. It's one thing to lose 49-24 to Purdue on the road or even 51-23 to Miami (OH) in Oxford; when you lose 20-0 at home to Army, well, I question your quality. Things didn't get better in 2006, either: they went 5-7, although that did include a 20-17 win over North Carolina State that gave them a BCS league scalp. Still, any team that loses five games in MAC play is not one that we can have much faith in for this exercise.

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2006: Michigan State and Illinois both went 1-7 in the league; Michigan State had a point differential of -93, while Illinois had a point differential of -65. Finally the long Illini relegation nightmare is over! They only won a single league game in 2006 (over relegation-bound Michigan State, coincidentally), but they were markedly more competitive: five of their Big Ten losses came by 11 points or less, including three games by seven points or less. In hindsight, perhaps their breakthrough in 2007 wasn't quite so shocking. (No, wait, it was: going from 2-10 to 9-4 is still pretty damn gobsmacking.) Strangely enough, their worst margin of defeat (24-7) came at the hands of a fairly mediocre Iowa team.

While Illinois improved from historically awful to merely pretty crappy, Michigan State bottomed out in the miserable end of the John L. Smith era. The '06 Sparty squad wasn't wholly miserable -- they opened the year 3-0 -- but things went sour after a pair of three-point losses to Notre Dame and Illinois. Those losses, plus a pair of close losses to Purdue and Penn State sandwiched two ugly losses to Michigan (18) and Ohio State (31). Still, what really did in MSU were not those blowouts at the hands of the Big Ten's alpha dogs (recall that in 2006 Michigan and Ohio State spent part of the year as 1-2 in the nation). No, what sunk their battleship were blowout losses to Indiana (46-21) and Minnesota (31-18). Losing to Indiana by 25 points is never a good idea. FUN FACT: 2006 was also the only year in the Aughts when Iowa flirted with relegation, going 2-6 in league play. Fortunately, Iowa's penchant for close losses (and blowout wins over Illinois and Purdue) kept them on the right side of the relegation line (their -18 point differential would have given them the edge in any tiebreaker situations).

Our MAC representative this year brought some fresh blood to the mix, as the Dan LeFevour Era desended upon the MAC and Central Michigan took top dog honors, going 7-1 and adding on wins in the MAC Championship Game and Motor City Bowl. They didn't claim a BCS scalp, but they weren't far off either, losing 31-24 to Boston College and 45-36 to Kentucky (as well as 41-17 to Michigan). Unfortunately, there was definite regression for the Fightin' LeFevours in 2007, as they went just 8-6 (although they did claim another MAC title). The most troubling aspect of their '07 season was their performance against the big boys, though: they lost 52-7 to Kansas, 45-22 to Purdue, 70-14 (!) to Clemson, and again to Purdue, 51-48 in the Motor City Bowl. But the 2007 Chippewas bring us another interesting "what if;" in our universe Brian Kelly bailed for Cincinnati after the 2006 season. In this parallel universe, does he stay in Mount Pleasant for a chance to guide a LeFevour-led Central Michigan through the Big Ten in 2007? Food for thought.

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2007: Minnesota went 0-8 with a point differential of -121, the third and final squad to pull the reverse perfect season in the Big Ten during the 2000s. Yet despite that ignominious 0-8 mark (and the 1-11 overall record), Minnesota can make a compelling case that they weren't as bad in 2007 as we recall -- and that they certainly weren't the worst Big Ten team of this period. Their -121 point differential would be just the 10th worst point differential during the '00s and they were competitive fairly often: three of their Big Ten losses were by 7 points or less, even though their defense was such a leaky sieve that they conceded 40+ five times. They were a lousy team and they deserved to be relegated (for losing to Indiana by 20, for losing to Bowling Green and Florida Atlantic, and for losing to North Dakota State)... they just weren't the worst Big Ten team of the era.

Meanwhile, the MAC brings us Year Two of the LeFevour Experience, which was already summarized a few paragraphs above. They were worse, Brian Kelly had bailed, and major conference teams treated them like a goddamn pinata. And yet they still managed to win the MAC that year because, well, someone had to take the crown. The '08 Chippewas weren't dramatically better; they went 8-5 and ended the year on a three-game losing streak. They did fare better against BCS competition, though; after getting blitzed 56-17 by Georgia, they narrowly lost to Purdue (32-25) and beat Indiana (37-34). On the other hand, they also lost to Eastern Michigan that year, 56-52.

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2008: Amazingly, this is our first sighting of Indiana in the relegation spot since 2004, when Illinois was just barely worse. A year after the spirit of Hep and the "Play 13" quest guided the Hoosiers to a 7-6 season and a trip to the Insight Bowl, the bottom fell out on Indiana when star receiver James Hardy departed for a so-far completely anonymous NFL career and scandal swallowed up fellow star player Kellen Lewis. Minus Lewis and Hardy, the Hoosiers were a sorry lot and the scorelines in their games reflects that point. Only one of their seven losses was by less than ten points. They scored fewer than 10 points in four games. In five of their Big Ten games, they conceded 42+ points, including two games where they gave up 55 points and another game where they gave up 62 points. In two of the three games where they didn't give up 42+ points, they gave up 34 and 37 points. They gave up 45 points to an Iowa team with an inexperienced quarterback and a coaching staff that barely threw a pass in the entire second half. The 2008 Indiana game, remember, was the one where Jewel Hampton -- the back-up running back -- ran for 100+ yards and 3 touchdowns. They were an utterly horrendous defensive team and barely any better on offense.

2008 brought one of the more unexpected MAC champions, as Buffalo knocked off 12-0 Ball State in the MAC Championship Game on the strength of five forced turnovers (including four fumbles that led to 28 Buffalo points). Ball State was trying to make a challenge to the '03 Miami (OH) team's claim as the best MAC team ever, but they crashed and burned spectacularly at the finish line. During the season they had been a juggernaut, amassing a gaudy +167 point differential and steamrolling the MAC competition they faced. They scored 40+ four times, had a margin of victory under 15 points only once all season, and won five league games by 20+ points. But it all came tumbling down in the Championship Game. The Buffalo team that beat them was no juggernaut; they had a point differential of only +33, lost by double-digits to both BCS teams they faced, and beat only two MAC teams by more than ten points. They had a nice run, but they would have been punching significantly above their weight in the Big Ten, a notion borne out by their middling performance (5-7) in 2009. They were crushed by Pittsburgh (54-27) and lost four of their first five games. A hard luck run near the end of the season (three losses by a combined seven points) made them look a little worse than they were, but for all intents and purposes, they were a slightly above-average MAC team that happened to catch fire at the best possible moment in 2008 (in the second half of the MAC Championship Game).

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2009: At last, an old money team tastes the bitter tears of relegation sorrow in our parallel universe. The '09 Michigan squad improved their record from the first year of the RichRod regime, going from 3-9 to 5-7, and they began to find a semblance of an offense -- but the defense regressed spectacularly, despite having all-conference talents like Brandon Graham and Donovan Warren in the squad. Michigan started the season strongly, going 4-0 and narrowly losing to Michigan State (in OT) and Iowa (on an interception at the end of the game). After a 63-6 throttling of Delaware State, they stood at 5-2 and their future seemed to be bright and ever-so-shiny. And then the situation imploded in stunning fashion and they lost five in a row. Only one of those losses came by less than 11 points, too. Penn State, Wisconsin, and Illinois (!) all battered Big Blue for 20+ point wins, which proved to be the difference in casting Indiana down to MAC hell and instead sending down a true college football blue blood. I'm guessing that in this parallel universe, the RichRod Era doesn't make it to Year Three.

After a one-year hiatus, the Central Michigan Fightin' LeFevours reclaimed the top spot in the MAC and did so in emphatic fashion, sweeping through the field of contenders with a point differential of +191. After a closer-than-expected season-opening loss (19-6) to Arizona in Tucson, the Chippewas rebounded with a surprising 29-27 win over Michigan State that ignited their season. The only game they lost the rest of the way was a 31-10 pantsing at the hands of Boston College at the midway point of the conference season. In MAC play, they had only one margin of victory less than ten points, they put up 40+ on four teams (including two 56-point performances), and generally dominated the competition. Unfortunately, 2010 was far less kind to Central Michigan: they stumbled to 3-9 behind a new coach (their prior coach, Butch Jones, had once again taken Brian Kelly's sloppy seconds, this time at Cincinnati) and logged only two MAC wins (both over their fellow directional Michigan schools, oddly enough). Granted, they also lost three MAC games by seven points or less (and came out on the wrong end of a few close calls in non-conference play as well, including a 30-25 loss to Northwestern and a 38-37 loss to Navy), but the losses of Jones and LeFevour were simply too much for this CMU team to bear.

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2010: Ah, back to our old friends in Hoosier-land. It's really not surprising that Bill Lynch was given his walking papers at the end of the 2010 season when you look at how uncompetitive the Hoosiers were in so many of their losses (and the sheer quantity of losses also became a factor; when you go 3-21 in Big Ten games over three years, there's really nowhere to hide when the reaper comes calling). The 2010 Hoosiers weren't as hopeless as the '08 squad: three of their losses came by seven or fewer points (including their coulda, woulda, shoulda loss to Iowa) and the offense perked up slightly (they scored double-figures in every game, although scoring 17 or fewer points in four games is pretty poor, particularly for a team as defensively frail as Indiana). And, to be fair, that -150 point differential is skewed a bit by that hellacious 83-20 loss they suffered against Wisconsin; over one-third of their total conference point differential came from that one game, which is a little unlucky. But they also lost by 28 to Ohio State, by 30 to Illinois, and by 17 to Penn State -- they were still pretty shitty. The '09 Hoosiers were a bit of a hard-luck team (four losses by 11 or fewer points and the deceptive 18-point loss to Iowa); the '10 Hoosiers were just lousy.

In 2010, the MAC featured a third straight team to make it through the regular season 8-0 (following in the heels of '08 Ball State and '09 Central Michigan), as Northern Illinois pulled off the feat. Unfortunately their magical season suffered the same disappointing ending as '08 Ball State, as they lost a heartbreaker to Miami (OH), 26-21, in the MAC Championship Game. Prior to that game, though, they were the best MAC juggernaut this side of the '03 Miami (OH) squad, racking up a frankly insane +255 point differential and putting forth an offensive blitzkrieg week in and week out. In one three-week span, they put up 195 points and outscored their opponents by 141 points. In three games. Prior to their title game stumble, they had only played one MAC game with a margin of victory of seven point or less, a 28-21 win over Western Michigan, and they had scored 50+ four different times. They did well against big boy opposition, knocking Minnesota around on their way to a 34-23 win, and narrowly losing to Illinois, 28-22. But they also lost to Iowa State, 27-10, in their season opener, which is generally a foreboding way to start the season.

As for the team that actually did win the the MAC last year (and, thus, promotion honors in our parallel universe), Miami (OH) was mostly just a MAC-good team. They took care of business in the league, although rarely in impressive fashion: five of their league wins were by a touchdown or less and they failed to score more than 28 against a single MAC foe. Alas, they were poor against big boy competition last year: they lost 34-12 to an offensively-challenged Florida team and then got spanked by Missouri (51-13) and Cincinnati (45-3). The early preseason projections have them again being a top team in the MAC, even with a new coach (Mike Haywood went off to be head coach of Pitt for about two weeks, before a domestic abuse charge put a kibosh to that), but their struggles against BCS-level teams in 2010 makes us leery of their 2011 potential.

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2011: It's another sad year in Hoosier-land; Kevin Wilson's first year at Indiana was -- somehow -- even worse than the Lynch Era at Indiana. Say what you will about the Mad Gum Thrower, but at least he never went 0-fer in B1G play. Indiana's -195 point differential was also the the fourth-worst total of all the Big Ten teams looked at in this era (only the '08 Indiana team and the '03 and '05 Illinois teams had worse totals). Indiana's best bet at a B1G win was actually their first opportunity, a 16-10 loss to Penn State in early October. They were tied 3-3 at halftime and Penn State needed two late scores to win. Otherwise, Indiana's best shot at a win was a 33-25 loss to Purdue in the season finale. They lost by double-digits in their other six B1G losses and gave up 55 points or more in three losses. Only Minnesota truly rivaled Indiana in badness and they managed to nab two B1G wins, first when Jerry Kill managed to outsmart Kirk Ferentz and later when they got to play an utterly demoralized Illinois team. But hey, sometimes you need a lucky break or two to avoid the relegation curse.

Meanwhile, a year after their promotion efforts were thwarted by a surprise upset in the MAC Championship Game, Northern Illinois gets over the hump and into the B1G in 2011. The '11 Huskies weren't the juggernaut that the '10 Huskies (seriously: +255 point differential!) were (they had a much more modest +96 point differential) and their MAC promotion hopes really came down to a pair of narrow wins: an insane 63-60 shootout win over MAC West co-champions Toledo and a 23-20 win over Ohio in the MAC Championship Game. As wild as the first game was (and any aficionado of mid-week MACtion still has fond memories of that Toledo game), the second game may have been even crazier: NIU stormed back from a 20-0 halftime deficit to score 23 points in the game's final 21 minutes, capping their rally off with a game-winning field goal as time expired. Otherwise, we were thisclose from Frank Solich getting a chance at REVENGE~! against Nebraska in the Big Ten in 2012.

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O/T RE: 2002 Ohio State.

One thing I love about this brutus scandal is that we now know brutus didn’t just need overtime to beat Jon Beutjer. No, he needed to cheat to beat Jon Beutjer.

Losers.

"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."

by ReadingRambler on Jun 2, 2011 11:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Ohio State did NOT win that game.

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 2, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too bad about the Iowa State game.

If Seneca Wallace didn’t flip out and do ninja stuff, Iowa would’ve played for the national title game that year. The perils of a rivalry, I guess.

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

by Semicorrect on May 15, 2012 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh! I almost forgot.

The 2005 Illinois-Penn State game was the most unevenly matched game I’ve ever seen PSU play. Even Coastal Carolina looked more even.

I think Illinois teams of the mid-decade era can be defined by one play where their right tackle simply forgot to block his man. The result was funny, yet truly frightening. I thought the man was dead.

"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."

by ReadingRambler on Jun 2, 2011 11:31 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't even have to click the link to know what you're talking about

And yes, the 2008 game against Coastal Carolina, no matter what the score said, was far more evenly matched than that game.

GO IOWA AWESOME

by ckmneon on May 16, 2012 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fun.

I projected who would move up and down if they had to play in their respective conferences since 2001. My thoughts:

2001: Promoted Toledo, Relegated Northwestern
2002: Promoted Marshall, Relegated Indiana
2003: Promoted Northwestern, Relegated Illinois
2004: Promoted Indiana, Relegated Marshall
2005: Promoted Akron, Relegated Indiana
2006: Promoted C. Michigan, Relegated Akron
2007: Promoted Illinois, Relegated Minnesota
2008: Promoted Buffalo, Relegated Toledo (I think 5-3 Buffalo faces an undefeated Minnesota team in the MAC Championship Game and the Gophers get Brewster’d)
2009: Promoted Minnesota, Relegated Buffalo (Michigan is spared by the Bulls)
2010: Promoted Miami (OH), Relegated C. Michigan

The only difference to the 2011 Big Ten line-up would be Miami (OH) in place of Indiana.

So the annual Big Ten representation from 2001 to 2011 would be:

Iowa 11 years out of 11.
Mich State 11
Michigan 11
Ohio State 11
Penn State 11
Purdue (IN) 11
Wisconsin 11
Minnesota 9
N’Western 9
Illinois 7
Toledo 7
C Michigan 4
Indiana 3
Marshall 2
Akron 1
Buffalo 1
Miami (OH) 1
Nebraska 1 (first year)

Of course, it’s highly speculative. It’s impossible to determine how individual teams would be affected by recruiting, coaching changes, money, etc. I tried to be generous to the demoted Big Ten squads facing a MAC slate, but there were some awful Indiana and Illinois teams that would have to face some highly effective MAC squads. Conversely I think Toledo could hold their own for a number of years against Big Ten opposition, and Buffalo may be the worst team to grace the Big Ten since the Northwestern squads of the early ‘80s.

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 2, 2011 11:50 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Also, this assumes that Ohio State wouldn't be deducted points in either the 2010 or 2011 season.

How would a demotion to the MAC sound for the Buckeyes?

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 2, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Poor, poor Indiana. That's a lot of time in the MAC.

I agree with most of those predictions (I actually thought of doing the same thing, but this post had already sprawled out to 4500 words and was making my head hurt), although I’d take Miami (OH) over jNW in 2003. That Big Ben Miami team was killer.

(I think 5-3 Buffalo faces an undefeated Minnesota team in the MAC Championship Game and the Gophers get Brewster’d)

So beautiful.

And, yeah, that Buffalo team would probably have given the ’05 Illinois a run of their money in terms of being the most inept Big Ten team of the 00s.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 2, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Indiana should be glad it's not the typical four/five-tier structure of Europe.

They would be playing DePauw by now.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Teams Indiana has played in the last 10 years:

Indiana State (twice), William and Mary, Nicholls State, Southern Illinois, Murray State, Eastern Kentucky, Western Kentucky, Towson, Akron a couple times, Western Mich a couple times, Ball State three times, Central Michigan 4 times.

So, IU is already preparing (a lot) for relegation to the MAC, and I wouldn’t be shocked to see DePauw on there one of these years.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

although I’d take Miami (OH) over jNW in 2003. That Big Ben Miami team was killer.

Just checked:

9/13/2003 Miami (OH) 44, Northwestern (IL) 14.

So… yeah. I now agree with you.

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 2, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa was the team

to give Big Ben his last collegiate loss.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Three Words

Hawkeye Pride

"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable

by ClaybornSmash on Jun 2, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

In a word

Total Dominance

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 2, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Word

Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.

by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 2, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Football is 1/2 offense, 1/2 defense, and 1/2 special teams.

"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."

by ReadingRambler on Jun 2, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

and they give you cash

Which is as good as money

I've been in love (truly) with five women, the Spanish Republic and the 4th Infantry Division.

by sailorjerry on Jun 2, 2011 3:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

/Yogi Berra'd

from an Aflac commercial.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa was the reason Pittsburgh won the Super Bowl in 2006.

1 or 2 INT’s instead of 4 so 7 or 8 total for the year
Beat Iowa, go undefeated?
Finish much better than 11th? (would have been ONLY undefeated team in CFB that year)
much more buzz
Possibly Top-5 in Heisman?
No way he falls to Pittsburgh at 11 or whatever it was.

meh

by tyger1147 on May 15, 2012 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think

you just caused every irrational Seahawk fan on the planet to start rooting against Iowa.

Oh wait, they blame the officials. Never mind.

by Sahr on May 16, 2012 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would love to see the 3-pronged promotion scramble from the MAC.

So in ‘02 we’d have automatic promotions for Marshall & NIU, with Toledo, BGSU, UCF & Miami in a four-team play-off for the final spot. The downside for you is that Indiana and Illinois would be joined by PSU in relegation.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ooh, I like that.

Especially since Iowa still doesn’t get relegated (hooray for point differential!) and jNW gets relegated a few more times.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 2, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Love this

The Big Ten would have a couple yo-yo teams like West Bromich Albion and West Ham United in Indiana and Illinois. Lots of time going back and forth. Would the Big Ten provide parachute payments like the Premier League does?

A couple of these teams look like the infamous Derby County side from 2007-2008 that was promoted and went on to win only 1 game and finished with the lowest point total in Premier League history. I’m looking at you, 2005 Akron and 2008 Buffalo. 2005 Akron losing 20-0 at home to Army doesn’t bode well for a promotion to the Big Ten.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 12:49 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm trying to figure out who Arsenal is

i.e. the team that is always in the top flight (been there since 1919) but hardly wins anything of consequence. I’m leaning towards Michigan State. Ugh.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, their three league titles

and somewhat newness to the very top of the Premier League would lead me to believe Penn Stat is an apt comparison.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because OSU and Michigan...

are probably Man U and Liverpool, right?

Does that make Iowa, Blackburn?

Michigan State might be Newcastle?

And Wisky is Chelski?

Minnesota is Tottenham?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Help me out with comparisons for Purdue, IU, Illinois, jNW.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

They were just promoted though.

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 2, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

From the Nationwide League 1 after almost 20 years in purgatory.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't rec this enough

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Flawless victory.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 2, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Purdue right now is Aston Villa

No idea what the hell is going on, but stays up

A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance

HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog

by BoilerTMill on May 16, 2012 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tottenham plays with flair.

They’re like Purdue under Tiller: fun but not great.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Minnesota is Leeds

God, I hate Leeds. But it’s an accurate comparison because once upon a time both were relevant.

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jun 2, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it is great that a Gopher fan gave us that comparison.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was rooting for them to make it back up this year.

Alas…

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 2, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

So was Pat...

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

They made a Champions League semi-final around 2000 or 2001

They were stacked. Too bad they completely screwed the pooch financially and had to sell nearly everyone.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Minnesota as Tot. Hotspur?

Fighting chickens? Hmmmmm. Whelp.

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 2, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, PSU is not a good comparison

precisely because Arsenal has been in the EPL forever. With that in mind, though, MSU wouldn’t be an apt choice either.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, aren't there like 10 or 12 teams that have been in the EPL...

or its equivalent for most of it?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow.

Man U hasn’t been in that long?

Can we call IU, Wigan Athletic?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

United were relegated for a season in the 70s

And bounced right back up. They also might have gone down in the 20s or 30s. All told though, they’ve been in the top flight for a long time.

It’s tough to compare the teams. Attendance-wise, Indiana would be a good Wigan candidate. That stadium is never full. But Wigan have also managed to stay up for 5 or 6 seasons now and miraculously avoided the drop this year, despite leaking goals everywhere they played.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'd say Iowa is more like an Everton or an Aston Villa

Blackburn aren’t that well supported and have been a frequent relegation candidate in recent years. Wisconsin and Iowa are probably those two teams.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do we have to be Everton?

We don’t have Scoucer accents. I guess I could live with being from Birmingham…I guess.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Scouser reminds me of souse.

Mmmmm, souse.

"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."

by ReadingRambler on Jun 2, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, we don't have to be Everton

I think of Iowa as an Everton/Aston Villa in that they’re usually competitive, usually hanging around those Champions League spots (which equals a ton more cash/prestige for clubs, like being in the BCS), and have a good history, more or less. Everton was really good in the 80s, but within 10 years they were in a few relegation battles. Same with Wisconsin. They would have been a good relegation candidate pre-Alvarez.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I put Blackburn for two reasons.

Black is a Hawkeye color, and Blackburn has won a league title.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except Blackburn doesn't wear black.

We’d actually be Borussia Dortmund.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I had no clue what Blackburn's colors were.

I know Newcastle rocks the black and white, right?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Newcastle is a great comparison to Iowa.

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jun 2, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've heard Newcastle fans are like Raider fans,

which is why I’ve been avoiding comparing Iowa to them.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would be Millwall.

Except Millwall fans are actual criminals instead of weekend tough guys.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

If I may be an impolite guest,

They wear black (and wore gold-ish), they have come close in recent times but haven’t won anything, their fans are delusional/crazy, and their players usually don’t get better when they go somewhere bigger and better (ala the NFL).

Iowa and Newcastle are cousins.

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jun 2, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tim Dwight

They even resemble one another

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now we just need a failed coaching story to attribute to him.

He’d have to be sacked after just 3 games, though, since Shearer made it just 8.

by The Mexican't on Jun 2, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Hayden didn't last long after TD left.

Nor did Dan Reeves in 2000 and Lane Kiffin in 2007.

I think all those guys only coached another year or two after Dwight left.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

And now I realize you meant

Dwight as a failed coach.

/grabs hair, calls self “stupid” like Chris Farley.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remarkable they've done that well historically

since a good chunk of their team died in the 1958 Munich air disaster. Man U has only become the absolute terror they are now in recent history (granted, it’s a good quarter century by now). Liverpool was an absolute giant for much of the 20th century and Nottingham Forrest had a remarkable run in the late 70’s/early 80’s (smallest club to ever win a major European competition). When you’ve got that much history there will be lots of different champs. And I’m just bitter about Arsenal, they’ve actually had quite a bit of success throughout the years and remain the only side to ever go through an entire season without a loss (‘03-’04) unless you count Preston North End in the 1880’s.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just knew Man U had that one great player back in the 50s or 60s.

Sir Bobby Charlton?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

George Best, too.

And Denis Law.

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jun 2, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

If OSU is Man U,

who is Eric Cantona? I’d like to think its Art Schlicter, but probably more likely it’s someone else.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Perfection with contempt? I don't think tOSU has had that person.

Oh, and: here. I can’t recommend Run of Play enough.

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jun 2, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

You insulted Iowa, which I hate you for

But Run of Play is essential reading. You’ve redeemed yourself.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hate Man U

but have a tremendous amount of respect for them. tOSU is AC Milan.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Juventus is the more corrupt former Italian giant, so...

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 2, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whoa.

This is a B1G:EPL comparison thread. We don’t want any of your Italian footy in here.

by The Mexican't on Jun 2, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

The EPL doesn't have that crooked a team

unless we get into finances. Then it’s Man City or Chelsea.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man City it is.

Aren’t they in danger of having to sell off half their stars anyway due to domestic player rules?

by The Mexican't on Jun 2, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

And Tevez is apparently bored again.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

And the fact the pay guys

£260,000 a week. I don’t think i could spend that, and im a gambler

by SeeYouJimmy on Jun 3, 2011 4:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Frankly I'm stunned

that we’ve got a soccer-based thread going on and you just now turned up. Welcome!

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 3, 2011 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's slightly amazing that the Holy Trinity

only won the league twice.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Side? What are the English too cool to use “team”?

"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."

by ReadingRambler on Jun 2, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, we're using relevant terminology

which is why say “quarter” when talking about football and not “period”.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way.

It’s totally because the English are too cool to say team.

"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."

by ReadingRambler on Jun 2, 2011 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

And “pitch” and “kit”. Ugh. What a stupid league

by txhawkeye on Jun 2, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Gridiron" and "pigskin" make so much more sense?

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jun 2, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ricky Stanzi would like a word with you.

by txhawkeye on Jun 2, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

'Murica!!!!

"Lattimore, as the kids can say, can ball, and sometimes does it to the extent one might say [he] is out of control in his balling." - Spencer Hall

by GwinnettGamecock on May 16, 2012 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

PSU is Nottingham Forest

An unknown that became a force from the ’70s to the early ’90s, then irrelevant.

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 2, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Greatest nickname in English soccer:

The Tricky Trees!

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

OMG!

This is Chuck Oliver’s SEC 2 idea!

by SWRT on Jun 2, 2011 12:57 PM CDT reply actions  

We Hawkeye fans are all interested in this or...

laughing at IU and Illinois right now. But how would we feel if relegation were an option after 1999?

Oh, wait, I forgot. 1999 didn’t happen. IT DIDN’T HAPPEN!!!!!

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:07 PM CDT reply actions  

It would be weird because if you were to structure all of CFB in the Four-tier system

Iowa is likely relegated in ’99 and possibly again in ’00. Meaning that the ’02 season would probably have been a promotion season and not a championship season.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, now I'm thankful that relegation never took place in the Big Te-leven.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, Iowa would have had great years in '03/'04 and

could have possibly avoided relegation in the down years mid-aughts.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa would've been promoted for winning the MAC in 2001

So we would’ve been back in 2002. It’s possible to compete right away if we’re going to extend the Big Ten/Premier League parallel. I believe Newcastle United came back up in the early 90s and nearly won the Prem a couple times were it not for some famous collapses under Kevin Keegan.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ye soccer lovers...

might be happy to know that I’ve been trying to keep up my soccer jones lately, I attended a high school game on Saturday and then came home to watch most of the Champions League Final.

Or maybe you won’t care about any of that.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm operating under the assumption that

they would have been relegated to the 1st division in ’99 and then to the 2nd in ’00.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think they would have been fine in '00, actually.

They won three Big Ten games that year (the only Big Ten games they won, actually… in fact, they won more games against B1G foes than they did against MAC teams that year — damn you, Western Michigan).

1999 would have been bad times, though.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 2, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, we won 2 Big Ten games in 98,

jNW went 0-8.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nope.

Iowa finished 2-6 in the league in 98 (tied with Minnesota, Indiana, and Illinois). Fortunately, jNW finished 0-8 that year. If you start relegating multiple teams, we might be in trouble in a few more years, but in terms of years where we finished dead last, there aren’t THAT many (thankfully).

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 2, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still using the classic 3-team drop in my head.

My bad.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

OT, but I like the Bundesliga's variation on the 3-team drop

The bottom two from the Bundesliga are relegated and replaced with the top 2 from Bundesliga 2. The third-from-bottom team plays a home-and-home relegation playoff with the third-place team from Bundesliga 2 to see who gets that last spot, away goals and everything. Great system.

I’m not sure who would’ve come up from the MAC in that scenario – have the two MAC championship game qualifiers get the auto spots, then have the third-place team have a one-off playoff game with the third-from-bottom in the B1G? Iowa never would’ve been in the playoff or gone down in that scenario if we’re going strictly off 2001-present.

Indiana goes down or is in the playoff every year except 2001 and 2006. Sorry, sorry program, that.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 2, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

My funnest fact about the 2003 Miami (OH)

Iowa beating them was the reason for Pittsburgh winning the Super Bowl in 2005-2006

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 2, 2011 1:39 PM CDT reply actions  

They're in the bottom of La Liga.

Where defense is for losers (just like the B12).

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

They're MLS

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another reason to get NCAA 2012!

With the new feature that allows you to customize conferences, you can relegate teams in your dynasty!

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Jun 2, 2011 1:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Frightening thought....

Do this with B1G Basketball…..Ugh! Is Iowa even in the MAC anymore D1?

by StewMonkey13 on Jun 2, 2011 7:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Actually, this whole comparison works

better with NCAA basketball. I’m drunk enough to undertake this project.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another interesting thought exercise...

And, actually, if we stick to the 1-team up, 1-team down promotion/relegation I used in the initial post, Iowa still manages to stay afloat in the Big Ten.

Going back to 01-02 since that’s as far as ESPN’s archives go —

01-02
Iowa: 5-10, 8th place
(actual last place: Penn State, 2-13)

02-03
Iowa: 7-9, 9th place
(actual last place: Penn State, 2-14)

03-04
Iowa: 9-7, 4th place
(actual last place: Penn State and Minnesota, 3-13)

04-05
Iowa: 7-9, 7th place
(actual last place: Penn State, 1-15)

05-06
Iowa: 11-5, tied for 2nd place w/ Illinois
(actual last place: Purdue, 3-13)

06-07
Iowa: 9-7, tied for 4th place w/ Illinois and Purdue
(actual last place: Penn State and Northwestern, 2-14)

07-08
Iowa: 6-12, 8th place
(actual last place: Northwestern, 1-17)

08-09
Iowa: 5-13, 10th place
(actual last place: Indiana, 1-17)

09-10
Iowa: 4-14, tied for 9th place w/ Indiana
(actual last place: Penn State, 3-15)

10-11
Iowa: 4-14, 10th place
(actual last place: Indiana, 3-15)

As bad as Iowa’s been recently, Indiana has consistently been worse. Thank God for that. And in the early part of the decade, Penn State was very, very, very bad.)

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 3, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Penn St. gets relegated 6 out of 10 years with Indiana and jNWU tied for 2nd with 2 times each.

"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me

by BStylin Hawkye on Jun 3, 2011 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

We'd rock the MEAC.

@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com

by Cairo on Jun 3, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Best pep talk ever?

Best pep talk ever.

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Jun 2, 2011 9:35 PM CDT reply actions  

That looks like a movie worth renting.

I’ll have to see if my local Family Video has it.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I found my rental at a Red Box

It’s probably available through download, too.

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Jun 2, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's available on Netflix Instant. I like it quite a bit.

Clough was an arrogant, egotistical asshole who always knew the best way to do things, in his opinion. And he was usually right.

Everyone fails. The successful learn from their failures. I just wish we'd quit giving ourselves so many learning opportunities.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jun 2, 2011 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have a Netflix account.

I may have to check Redbox.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't bother with Netflix.

It’s like $8 a month to watch an absurd number of movies/shows/documentaries from the comfort of your own home at the click of a button. Going to the grocery store is a way better option.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kyle, I love you.

And I don’t know how we got into the sparring match we’ve been in lately. Perhaps it was the other day when I told you to “fuck off” and put up my giant Best Western pic.

So please, forgive me. You’re correct, I should join netflix, but I don’t have a netflix-capable device outside of the laptop that I have been assigned from my workplace. I also don’t have a digital TV.

Perhaps someday, I’ll purchase a Wii or a PS3 or some inexpensive device that will allow me to get Netflix. Until then, I’m still stuck in the 20th century of renting DVDs from nearby rental stores.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 3, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do we have to have make-up cybersex now?

I wasn’t even aware we were sparring, I just thought we were doin’ what we do. Carry on, citizen.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 3, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Cool.

And I’d prefer we don’t get cyber-freaky.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 3, 2011 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Best Western pic was awesome.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jun 3, 2011 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a great fucking movie.

Especially for a sports fan who doesn’t know much history soccer.

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jun 3, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's so great in 30 Rock

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Jun 2, 2011 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

A short list ...

As taken from Wikipedia (mostly), so you know it’s accurate…

He has played Tony Blair, Nero, H.G. Wells, David Frost, Brian Clough, the White Rabbit, Aro from Twilight and this spring took the role of Jesus Christ in a Passion play which lasted three days.

He’s running out of roles.

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Jun 2, 2011 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, THE DAMNED UNITED.

Really good movie.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 3, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is that what the video link is?

I assumed as much, but couldn’t follow the link. Loved that movie. Hell, I think I was able to purchase it for $4.

by The Mexican't on Jun 3, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

It is now in my Instant que.

"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me

by BStylin Hawkye on Jun 3, 2011 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

So happy this is back

and I love the off-topic conversations on the thread above. Hamsterdam makes even more sense now.

by MNWildcat on May 15, 2012 3:05 PM CDT reply actions  

As am I

as bad as we were, we were never the worst team in the league? Hard to wrap my head around.

"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass

by chitownhawkeye on May 15, 2012 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm going to expand on that for a post this week, but in short: thank god for Penn State.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on May 15, 2012 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember when ESPN did something similar to this?

split the NCAA into 4 top tiers and 8 bottom tier leagues? ive actually been keeping track of how those teams would have ended up as a hobby

first, a link so you know what im talking about

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4375901.

Current Conferences:

John McKay Conference: Boise State, BYU, California, Houston, Nevada, Oregon, Stanford, TCU, USC, Utah

Bear Bryant Conference: Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Miami, South Carolina, Southern Miss

Knute Rockne Conference: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Wisconsin

Bud Wilkinson Conference: Arkansas, Kansas State, LSU, Missouri, Nebraska, Northern Illinois, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Tulsa

i tried to keep the conferences as close geographically as i possibly could. Interesting note, the only two teams go be regulated and then come back to the top tier are Michigan and Michigan State.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on May 15, 2012 8:03 PM CDT reply actions  

and no, i cant believe Notre Dame is still there.

every year they are in the bottom of the conference, just to either have a terrible team beat them out or just barely beat out another team.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on May 15, 2012 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

+667

I wonder how Ball State had a point differential of +667 and still managed to lose 2 games in 2007? Must have been some crazy blow outs in the games they did win…

by Nickgpc on May 16, 2012 9:10 AM CDT reply actions  

It was +167 and 2008

Ball State went undefeated in the regular season, but had a ton of turnovers and lost to Buffalo in the title game. Turner Gill got the Kansas job because of that game. Then Ball State got smoked by Tulsa in a bowl.

by babaoreally on May 16, 2012 10:04 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Just read this yesterday and wanted to comment

Glad it’s open again.

Also, glad to see Blackburn relegated. Screw them.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on May 16, 2012 10:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Oh my god

What if it was real? That’s a hell of a simulation. 2005 through now, all the conferences.

"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass

by chitownhawkeye on May 17, 2012 4:24 PM CDT reply actions  


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