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Bad Calls, Hurled Fruit, and Thrown Punches: Why Iowa Stopped Playing Illinois In Football

If you've ever taken a look at the series history between Iowa and Illinois, one thing probably stands out: despite being comrades in the Big Ten for over a century, Iowa's played fewer games against Illinois (69) than all but two other members of the Big Ten's century club (Ohio State and Michigan).  That's a little strange considering they're border rivals that have been in the league together since 1900.  Of course, a big reason for that discrepancy is the fifteen-year gap in the Iowa-Illinois series between 1952 and 1967:

Iowa_vs_illinois_15_year_gap_medium

So what caused that fifteen-year break?  Did Iowa suspect the other UI of being full of vile communist infiltrators and godless pinko spies and thus refuse to allow them to set foot on the pristine, America-loving Iowa City campus? Well, probably (and any campus that would allow Ron Zook to hang around for six years and counting is still one that's not to be fully trusted), but that's not the actual reason Iowa and Illinois didn't clash on the gridiron for the better part of a generation.   Fortunately, Friend of the Pants Scott Dochterman produced an exhaustive article on the topic this weekend and we strongly encourage you to give it a read.  A few highlights:

The split-second incident involving [Rocky] Ryan and Wolfe swirled at the epicenter of conflict and commotion that day. It involved questionable officiating, a record-breaking passing performance, unsportsmanlike conduct and a thunderous right-hand punch. The game and the ensuing chaos forever changed a border rivalry between Iowa and Illinois’ football programs. The residue lingers to this very day.

So how bad did things get that day?  Well, opinions vary pretty wildly.  Says former Illinois student manager Charlie Finn:

"As we left the field, one of the coaches said, ‘Run.’ So we were running," Finn said. "The fans came out of the stands and attacked the team. There were no security guards around there, like there is today.

Yes, having the fierce PER-MAR security forces of today would certainly have made quite a difference.  Finn continues:

"Anything they could throw — apples, oranges, cans, bottles. It was really bad. I’ve never seen anything close like that happening over here."

"It was like a riot," Finn said. "It was very, very ugly. An unseemly incident, one of the worst in the history of Big Ten sports."

On the other hand:

Star-divide

Iowa starting center Jerry Hilgenberg struggled to recall most of the day’s events, other than a few apples tossed at the field.

And:

Longtime Iowa broadcaster Bob Brooks, who called the game on KCRG radio that day, said the incident didn’t "require the police or anything like that."

"It was not what I thought, in broadcasting the game, an ugly scene," Brooks said. "It wasn’t close to a riot or anything like that. I don’t think a lot of people saw the Illinois player hit the Iowa fan because the game was over. They were coming off the field. But it was serious enough that they discontinued the series."

The Big Ten didn't penalize Iowa for the incident, which would seem to support the viewpoint of Hilgenberg and Brooks.

But, oh yeah, the punch:

Illinois left end John "Rocky" Ryan, known as one of the team’s toughest players, also walked toward the locker room. Both O’Connell and Finn recall Ryan as a feisty competitor with a mean streak.

"Rocky was a tough Irishman and had a tough temper," O’Connell said. "Terrible. But he was a good football player."

....

"Our coaches took us out and asked us to get off the field because players were getting pretty violent," Ryan said. "This fan came out and grabbed my shoulder pad and turned me around. I thought, ‘Well,’ and I hit him because he was going after me. Of course he was stupid for picking on me."

Wolfe immediately went to the hospital. His jaw was reset and wired virtually shut. Wolfe’s family was notified of the incident, Schau recalled.

Honestly, it's hard to feel too much sympathy for Wolfe in this particular incident; you go on the field and confront a player, you deal with the consequences.  And if you start mouthing off to a guy named Rocky, well, expect to get punched in the goddamn face.  (That said, Wolfe went on to have a pretty remarkable life, as Doc notes in the article.  I strongly advise reading it to get even more great details and some excellent vintage photos.)

So one thrown punch and a few apple cores later, the Iowa-Illinois series was no more.

The Big Ten did not sanction Iowa for the incident. The schools were set to rotate off one another’s Big Ten schedules for the 1953 and 1954 seasons. Both Illinois and Iowa athletics officials then agreed to a "cooling-off" period through at least 1958. That hiatus was extended multiple times until they agreed to meet again in 1967. The 15-year pause tied for the longest break among Big Ten schools since World War II.

Iowa and Illinois are now in the midst of the longest gap in the series since that 15-year hiatus, but there are no impertinent fans, jaw-breaking punches, or thrown apple cores to blame this time -- just the inscrutable decision-making of the Delanybot 9000 and its scheduling system.  Iowa and Illinois won't play again until 2015 (barring an unlikely clash in the Big Ten Championship Game), thanks to the addition of Nebraska to the league and the subsequent scheduling issues that created. 

And that's still a damn shame, even if Iowa-Illinois isn't quite on par with Iowa's other local rivals.  It doesn't have the immense history or marvelous trophy that mark the Minnesota rivalry, nor the intensely competitive (and even) nature of the Wisconsin rivalry, nor the seething hatred and big brother/little brother dynamic that characterizes the Iowa State rivalry.  Hell, it doesn't even have the lingering dislike or prestige of the impending Nebraska rivalry.  That said, there's no love lost between fans of Iowa and Illinois (especially in basketball) and the fact that so many Illinois natives flood into Iowa City to attend our UI adds a few extra layers of fun and intrigue to the Iowa-Illinois clashes.  Plus, as this article demonstrates, there's a pretty colorful and dramatic history between the two schools.  Iowa's going to play Pittsburgh more times than they'll have played Illinois between 2008 and 2014 -- hell, they'll have played Northern Illinois more times in that span than they'll have played Illinois by the time 2014 rolls around -- and that just seems a little wrong.  So roll around in a forgotten bit of Iowa football history for a while; someday Illinois will return to the schedule and it's good to know why that actually means something.

Comment 59 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I would guess it's pretty standard that accounts vary greatly by perspective

I thought the beer can throwing party that ended the Fieldhouse parking lot tailgating was glorious, but it’s clear others thought differently.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jun 14, 2011 2:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Good stuff

Elsewhere in the world on that day, Penn State lost to Syracuse with some guy named Joe Paterno as a promising young assistant coach on the sidelines.

is there anyway i can redeem myself, i was not sure if i should say "we" at that moment
by Skins4ever on Feb 2, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by ckmneon on Jun 14, 2011 2:09 PM CDT reply actions  

What game was the pig head tossed onto the field.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Jun 14, 2011 3:30 PM CDT reply actions  

Needs more recs.

"I can't go home until the carp is asleep. Because if I see it...swimming...I'll kill it."

by ReadingRambler on Jun 15, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Can we get some dead gophers and toss them onto the field when we play Minny?

"No I'm not going to 'limber up'. You ever see a lion stretching before it takes down a gazelle?"

by Swarley on Jun 14, 2011 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

NEW TRADITION!

Like the opening day octopus (or whatever) in stickypuck.

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 14, 2011 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I want to say it was a mid-90s Michigan game

Could be wrong though. 1994 maybe?

The Illinois used to mean something. It used to mean much more than the Wisconsin game in the late 80s/early 90s (Bruce Pearl).

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Jun 14, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe it was some old-school tailgating and it was fruit infused with booze.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 14, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

So we committed a mass party foul?

I just can’t believe an Iowa fan would waste good hooch.

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 14, 2011 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

That doesn't negate the (potentially) booze-infused fruit being wasted.

THAT is the party foul I was refering to.

However, the pig head makes it slightly more badass of a party foul.

[Seriously, WTF is this pic from? It looks like it could be a snowy football game. Is it?]

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 15, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, we ate the booze-infused fruit and threw the leftover cores at the stupid Illini goons.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 15, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay

this is an acceptable explanation.

Thank you for putting my mind at ease.

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 15, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was probably Meat Fruit

jtothetweet
"You know why I carry this baseball bat around? So when I poop a wildcat I can hit him over the head." - Dan Gable

by jtothep on Jun 14, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

The band still eats apples after halftime.

Perhaps it was related to that?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 14, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

People who are planning

to throw fruit on the field

It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?

by chitownhawkeye on Jun 14, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here's a crazy thought...

…how about Iowa and Illinois schedule a non-conference game against each other. I’m sure that they both still have openings and, for all intents and purposes, it wouldn’t even feel like a conference game due to the infrequency of the current match-up. It could even be an event game in the recruiting hotbed of Davenport, I’m sure Brady Street Stadium would oblige.

by hawk4trees on Jun 14, 2011 4:46 PM CDT reply actions  

definitely would have to bring in extra seating

"but he is a worthless man, otherwise he wouldn't be so good a piper" -Antisthenes

by Lycurgus on Jun 14, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the B10 discourages that.

I recall a couple or a few years ago, IU and Purdue were only going to play in basketball once in a season, and they talked about scheduling another one, and the conference wasn’t in favor of it.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 14, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I recall, that was about the time....

….that Evy was taking over, and IIRC from my Iowa FB series last fall, it was against Illinois that Evy actually encouraged his players to get in fights during the game to fire them up, and in one game—might have been against Illinois, too—Evy actually almost got assaulted by opposing fans, he was so abrasive. During a game.

We might play the innocent when it comes to the Fainting Irish, but I’m thinking we were responsible for at least 51% of the problems that occurred when we played Illinois.

And I have a feeling Evy didn’t regret one bit of it!

"Apparently, riding Joe Paterno like a small horse is FROWNED UPON IN THIS ESTABLISHMENT!"

by The Director on Jun 14, 2011 5:45 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't even think about Illinois when it comes to football.

I don’t like to lose to them, but then again, I don’t like to lose to any Big10 team. I thought this was a great story and it makes me wonder if we have stories like this with all Big10 teams. Not necessarily violent ones, but stories like this and how Floyd came about.

It makes me sad that Charlie Finn and his wife don’t like to come to IC for games, though.

"There is a difference," he said. "My wife, we’ve been over to Iowa City quite a few times and she said, ‘Let’s not come anymore. It’s not a place where you can walk down the street.’ It’s different than any other place. I’ve been to all Big Ten schools to games and … they’ll all say nice game or something like that. But you never hear that in Iowa City. It’s just like it’s best to get in your car and get out of there. That’s the way I always feel."

I don’t want anyone to feel like that about going to games at Kinnick.

by Carfino'sWay on Jun 14, 2011 7:28 PM CDT reply actions  

Maybe it's just me

but it seems more like that everywhere. Most fans of any given team will be decent to someone wearing opposing colors, but contingent of people who are rude or abusive seems to be growing, and they seem to be much louder, and more likely to throw things, get in fights, or cause property damage.

It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?

by chitownhawkeye on Jun 14, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

they seem to be much louder, and more likely to throw things, get in fights, or cause property damage...

…have news channels

sorry, I thought we were making a list

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 14, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

While I dislike ISU, I think Iowa fans are getting a bit uncivil toward them at times, especially when the game is at Kinnick.

Of course, their athletic director is trying to price-gouge us when the game is at their place, so…

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 14, 2011 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hey, when they knew their place, everything was fine.

Then “The Run” happened and they upped their intollerability to 11. It’s all ISU’s fault for winning a couple games and giving their fans a sense of desire and a taste of “victory” (which we all know is a powerful, highly addictive narcotic).

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 15, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's really too bad. It could be a great rivalry.

When I was in school in the late 80s/early 90s it WAS a great rivalry. Iowa delivered the beatdown in 1990, an exciting come-from-behind win in 1991, and another win in Champaign in 1992. This was sandwiched by some big wins from some good Mackovic-coached teams in the years prior and a couple Illinois wins afterwards. Both programs were relevant, it was before Wisky got good, the dislike was genuine, and it felt like there was no team I’d rather see Iowa beat. They played every year for well over a decade. I miss those days a lot, and with the division alignment and the long absences, I don’t see them returning.

Because the Gulfstream 5 has neither the airspeed nor the specs to adequately describe how fly I feel.

by DonnyDonovan on Jun 14, 2011 8:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, we got worked by them from 93 thru 95.

Would that have been when Simeon Rice and Kevin Hardy played for them?

After looking it up, Rice might have been there, but I don’t think Hardy was.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 14, 2011 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the divisional alignment point is critical.

Even if we expand to nine games and add a second protected cross-division opponent, the overwhelming choice for that team is Wisconsin. So we still wouldn’t be playing Illinois that much more often (if at all) with nine conference games.

Short of some showdowns in the Big Ten Championship Game, I think it’s going to be difficult for this series to be fully revitalized.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 15, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

We also wouldn't be playing PSU more often.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 15, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's an underrated downside to the new divisions, too.

We’ll be playing PSU less often, which sucks.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 15, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

In the 22 years between 1979 and 2000 they only didn't play twice, in 87 and 88.

Because the Gulfstream 5 has neither the airspeed nor the specs to adequately describe how fly I feel.

by DonnyDonovan on Jun 14, 2011 8:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Living in Illinois

the series has been a lot of fun for me. I miss it. It helps to have good friends who are great sports too.

.....OK, maybe I didn't think the short version of this name through....

by TheStupidShallBePunished on Jun 14, 2011 10:07 PM CDT reply actions  

"published a book on knee arthography"

Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe we have found the root of our curse.
Can we find Rocky “I can still whip a little ass” Ryan and get him to punch AIRBHG in the jaw? It may be our favorite werewOH SHIT… wereWolfe, it’s all coming together!
And Delaney must have known all along, and is keeping us from our natural rivals to hide the truth about the deity he created.

"Pockets full of weed, chewing tobacco, wrapping papers and dental dams"
--HFMR Running the Beermile (tfj @ HawkeyeRecon)

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 14, 2011 10:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Changing gears

It still pisses me off to recall the Illinois students who bought out the entire section of Carver Arena by impersonating Iowa fans. Those Illini are sneaky like mole rats.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Jun 15, 2011 7:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Ugghh, I was at that game.

The fact that, at the time, I was more pissed at Iowa fans for letting that happen just makes me dislike Illinois even more.

Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.

by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 15, 2011 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am concerned something similar to this is going to happen at the UNL game next year in IC.

There are so many tickets for games being sold on StubHub, CraigsList and other means that I would hate to think Kinnick could be invaded by Husker fans. There was a lot of red in the stands for the Wisconsin game last year and I fear it will only be worse for the UNL game. Damn you capitalism and the desire to fleece Nebraskans!! When posting tickets to sell you can’t really say “I will not sell to a fan of the other team.” I have already been asked by a Husker for my tickets, my answer was “not on your life.”

by Carfino'sWay on Jun 15, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

It seemed to me that there were a lot of Buckeyes in Kinnick last year, too.

Moreso than any other visiting team I have seen play (aside from ISU and possibly UNI).

"No I'm not going to 'limber up'. You ever see a lion stretching before it takes down a gazelle?"

by Swarley on Jun 15, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

The more the better

We will drink their tears and pass wind on their sorrow.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Jun 15, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

At least with OSU, Michigan, PSU...

you don’t completely expect them to show up en masse to a game that is 8 or 9 hours away, unless they fly.

But we need to know better for the Nebraska game. It is a quick 5 hours away, and apparently anybody west of Des Moines knows plenty of Husker fans living in Iowa.

If it remains the last game of our season in 2012 and beyond, then at least it will be Senior Day when it is at Kinnick, and hopefully we can get plenty of families to show up.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 15, 2011 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

It is a valid concern

But due to a few things (the fact that 97% of season ticket holders renewed their season tickets from last year to this year, plus the fact that next year’s home schedule looks slightly prettier than this year even without UNL – we get ISU, Minny, PSU, OMHR – means people will continue to renew, especially for the UNL game) I don’t think UNL will take over Kinnick by any means. It will probably be comparable to Wiscy or OSU last year, where the top and bottom corners of the east stands will be red, but too many Iowa fans will want to see the UNL game for something crazy to happen.

Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.

by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 15, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just realized

that I’m whining about letting jN-L fans into Kinnick, while I have brought my Badger-alum uncle to two or three Iowa-Wisky games at our Legendary Stadium.

/pot-kettle-black.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 15, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

My concern is more about the reselling on third party websites.

There is no control on who you are selling to. My understanding from various places that I have read is that some people are buying season tickets with the express purpose of reselling them and making money off their initial investment. I am probably going to have to sell some of my tickets this year because of The Nephew’s move but selling them was not in the original plan.

As I have said in other posts if anyone needs two tix I am willing to sell them here to someone I “know” for face value. Most of the games are spoken for but someone has to want UL-M, right? Also, I reserve the right to hold onto the tickets if there is a BHGP tailgate.

by Carfino'sWay on Jun 15, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

People have been buying to scalp for a long time,

and will continue to do so, especially with the advent of Stub-Hub and Ebay and all the other sites.

A funny story, there are people out there who do this for a living, and move around to different events to do so.

I went to the first round of an NCAA basketball tourney in Dayton, OH a few years back, when UNI played Georgetown. Ohio State was also playing at Dayton. I had a friend who sold an extra ticket to a scalper, and I think the guy was from Florida and said that he and his crew decided to come to Dayton because they knew they’d get big money from the nearby OSU fans.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Jun 15, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong I am a HUGE fan of StubHub when it comes to getting really cheap tickets for Royals games.

I get annoyed by the thought of people buying season tickets so they can specifically resell them and thus making it so that people who want season tickets can’t get them.

by Carfino'sWay on Jun 15, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right, there is no control over the 3rd party sales.

We know that UNL will be allotted their 3,000 or 4,000 (I can’t remember which), and the visitors’ seats are by the visiting team’s sidelines. There will be red there, and probably some scattered small patches throughout, since people always find connections to tickets to get into the game, like relatives or friends or whatever (this is how I’m hoping to get a ticket to UNL this fall if my application isn’t accepted, fingers crossed).

And like Chazz basically said, visitors will continue to get into games due to the scalpers, but I don’t believe that it will be significantly more for the UNL game than other big games, like OSU. It will probably look like a home game against ISU. Again, fingers crossed.

Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.

by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 15, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

And to sort of veer back to my comment about the Illinois bball game,

I’m pretty sure they were able to fill an entire section at Carver was because no one was going to games that year. There may have been a snow storm that night, but things were so bad that they probably were able to call up the ticket office and order a section of almost a thousand seats next to each other.

Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.

by Give Eddie a Beer on Jun 15, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

You don’t get that many tickets together by going through StubHub or other third-party vendors. (Well, you might be able to, but it would be one gigantic pain in the ass.)

I recall the Ticket Office came under a lot of heat after that happened, although at the same time there’s limited ways for them to stop things like that and there job is to, y’know, sell tickets. It’s not their fault Iowa basketball was so abominable that Iowa fans were staying away in droves.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Jun 15, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t blame the Illini, at all, for that pathetic display (says the Iowa alum who lives in Dallas and never goes back for basketball games). I was more pissed at the Wiscy game in Historic Legendary Kinnick for all the rat bastard Wisconsin fans who got in. Fucking fuckers (says the Iowa alum who lives in Dallas and had to resort to Stubhub for tickets to said game).

by txhawkeye on Jun 15, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't think there were that many Cheesheads there

I think the 2010 Wisky crowd is overstated. They were in a couple of sections, but there weren’t that many of them. They just happened to show up on TV because of their location in the northeast corner.

The thing about Wisky, OSU and Nebraska is that red is a dominant color. It pops out way more than other colors, and can be distorting.

by H I McDonnough on Jun 16, 2011 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would be interested in some tix

Formerly known as SpoWAHawk
TOUCHDOWN IOWA! TOUCHDOWN IOWA! - Gary Dolphin
I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! I LOVE IT! - Jim Zabel

by IAHawkfan4life on Jun 17, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

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