On Jim Tressel's Resignation and Jim Delany's Efforts to Make Sure It Never Happens Again
(Ed. note: This was written Sunday evening. It could well be wrong by now.)
Jim Tressel resigned today, after the weight of allegations against him and his program became too much to bear. There is a Sports Illustrated piece on the way that threatens to blow apart the basics of what Tressel actually did to warrant his hasty resignation, but to date we know his players sold memorabilia and received sweetheart deals from local auto dealers, he knew of it, and not only did he do nothing to stop it but signed a piece of paper saying he had no knowledge of it. If this were simply the tattoo story from December, we would not be here. It was a conspiracy of one that brought down The Great Sweatervest, and it's solely and completely his fault that his career at Ohio State ended this morning. This post is not about that.1
No, this post is about what's being done to prevent it from happening again. Because as long as the college football system -- and, for that matter, the NCAA system in general -- continues to exploit student athletes, it will happen, and happen repeatedly. Jim Tressel did what he did not because he wanted to gain an advantage, per se; take a look at the cars your team's players are driving and tell me auto dealers in Columbus are acting alone. Rather, Tressel did what he did because he wanted to protect his players from breaking a rule that he and his players clearly felt was improper and insignificant.2 And he's right. And it's why Jim Delany's plan to increase scholarships to cover the full cost of attendance will save us from a repeat performance.
As was detailed elsewhere last week, Big Ten Grand Poobah Jim Delany floated the idea of increasing the amount of full athletic scholarships to cover the "full cost of attendance" for student-athletes; in other words, rather than simply covering tuition, room and board, and books, athletes on full scholarship (football, men's and women's basketball, women's tennis, women's volleyball, and women's gymnastics) would be getting the same spending money stipend that every other student is eligible to receive with scholarships or federal/state financial aid3. The amount needed to meet "full cost of attendance" would be set by the school, but estimated by the Big Ten at $2500-5000 per year. To cover the full outlay for 145 scholarships at the highest estimated cost of attendance, each school would have to increase its scholarship outlay by $725,000; for Iowa, which spent about $8.5M in student financial aid and $74M on athletics in general, it's about an 8.4% increase in financial aid expense and a <1% increase in overall expense. Because each school has to determine and publish its full cost of attendance in connection with federal financial aid, a school couldn't turn this into a salary race for top players without drastically increasing financial aid outlays for every other student.
In criminal psychology, there is the concept of the "Fraud Triangle"; for a person to commit fraud against an employer, he must have rationalization, opportunity, and pressure. If an employee is given the opportunity to commit malfeasance, justification for his action, and sufficient pressure to secure funds or goods, even the most ethical of employees can defraud his employer. The current system in college football provides a player with all three legs of the tripod from almost the moment he hits campus.
It's easy to find from where the pressure comes. Student athletes have full class loads (and monitors making sure they keep up with attendance) on top of practice time, leaving essentially no free time while their sports are in season and little more during the offseason. Any question of the year-round time commitment of college sports is answered by the Michigan practice time scandal and Iowa's issues with rhabdo, both of which arose from long, strenuous offseason workouts. Even if players could hold a job off campus, NCAA regulations prohibit virtually all employment for fear of no-show arrangements between players and boosters.
In exchange for that hard work, student athletes are given free tuition, room and board, and books, but are then left to come up with spending money. Therein lies most of the pressure. It's a story that goes back to the dissolution of the Fab Five at Michigan: While players from means can rely on money from home, players coming from poverty or from large, working families may have no such support. For some, it might even be the responsibility of the student athlete to support the family. As former Ohio State defensive end Robert Rose said in the Sports Illustrated piece:
"I knew how much money that the school was making. I always heard about how Ohio State had the biggest Nike budget. I was struggling, my mom was struggling. ... It was just something that I had to do. I was in a hard spot. ... [Other] guys were doing it for the same reasons. The university doesn't really help. Technically we knew it was wrong, but a lot of those guys are from the inner city and we didn't have much, and we had to go on the best we could. I couldn't call home to ask my mom to help me out."
The takeaway is that while some players in the Ohio State scandal may have simply been cashing in and getting some ink, many were selling rings and trophies and trinkets so that they could have that small stipend of spending money that their fellow students received in their financial aid packages or off-campus jobs. This isn't a question of giving athletes another advantage. This is a question of putting athletes on the same financial footing as other students without forcing them to break NCAA regulations or leave school without a degree to make ends meet.
Rationalization comes from a system where players generate hundreds of millions of dollars in profits for their chosen universities without anything approaching proper compensation. While the South Park takedown of the NCAA last week was more than a little ham-handed, it was still true: At the revenue sport level, college sports is a system of indentured servitude, and players are completely justified in feeling that their universities' entire budget is built on their unpaid labor. The same system, which puts football on our televisions for thirteen hours every Saturday and turns these kids into superstars before they even sign a letter of intent, also creates opportunity. Trinkets and jewelry is pawn shop material without the university name -- or, even more importantly, the player name -- attached. We create a culture obsessed with their every move, pay the universities tons of money to follow those moves, and then tell the objects of our obsession that they can't profit. We've built a fraud triangle and asked teenagers to know better than to disappear into it.
Delany knows Ohio State is toast. Whether the Buckeyes are hit with USC-like NCAA penalties or not, 2011 will be a lost season for his most successful and most prominent program as players and recruits run for the hills. And while Delany knows he can't turn back the clock to avoid that fate, he can do everything possible to prevent the sort of wholesale malfeasance that led to this point from happening again elsewhere. Make no mistake: Regardless of how much is included in scholarships, some players will still attempt to cash in at every opportunity. Five grand a year might not alleviate the financial pressure on student athletes or prevent rationalization of fraudulent activity. But for those who are just trying to pay for pizza and beer, a legal mechanism may be enough to knock out a leg of the tripod. If that can be done for less than 1% of a Big Ten athletic department's budget, it's a small price to pay. It's why Delany is floating this plan now, as Ohio State's shit hits the proverbial fan; if it can happen here, it can happen -- hell, it is happening -- everywhere, and every other athletic director and conference commissioner knows it. Every school has that rogue booster with a car lot or jocksniffer with a tattoo parlor, and they can't be completely stopped. So Delany will do what he can, and try to diminish the pressure or reduce the rationale. It's criticized by those who can't afford it, but it is nevertheless the only option he has. Delany's words say Jim Tressel was wrong. Delany's actions say that the NCAA and conferences and schools aren't right, either. And his actions speak much louder than his words.
1 -- Delany's formal statement on Ohio State and Tressel, while a bit tone deaf, is quite telling in that it addresses Tressel separately from Ohio State. OSU had "violations" and reported them in a timely fashion. Tressel made a "serious mistake" and paid the price. Tressel isn't fired because his guys traded merchandise for tattoos and cash. He's fired because he knew his guys traded merchandise for tattoos and cash and did nothing about it.
2 -- I don't want to read too much into Tressel's behavior, but suspending your players for the non-conference season so that they can play a bowl game, especially when you had to know that the light punishment would keep the spotlight on your program for a rule violation that you knew about for a year and actively worked to cover up shows just how insignificant Tressel considered the Tattoogate violations.
3 -- There is some small disagreement on this point, but I think Brian Cook has it right. Those seven sports offer full scholarships exclusively. The remaining sports allow for partial scholarships, which would allow the school to adjust the amount of money provided under a partial scholarship by adjusting the percentage of a scholarship provided. So, even if every scholarship is required to cover full cost of attendance, a school could simply offer 0.4 scholarship to an athlete rather than 0.5 to reduce that amount back to the original cost.
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One question
are student athletes able to take out student loans or are they prohibited from doing so because they are on a full ride.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 11:19 AM CDT reply actions
That's an interesting question I couldn't find an answer for.
My guess is they would have a hard time getting need-based aid through a FAFSA regardless of situation, if only because they’re on full ride and the feds (already working on an increasingly shoestring budget) can always find parents responsible to provide $5k a year to their child’s education. Private loans might be prohibited because of potential booster issues.
Where Delany might agree to make a compromise is if the NCAA would allow low-interest loans from the schools to players. They can’t be zero-interest without running afoul of IRS gift tax laws, but a 2% loan would do the trick.
Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.
by Patrick Vint on May 31, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Your idea about low interest loans from the University
is right along the lines I was thinking. I would like to see something extra available for them because they are so busy that they are unable to work. I also am of the opinion though that they are given A LOT and they could certainly be responsible for a small percentage of the cost of attending. I also was unable to get any need based aid for college so I ended up with about 15k of federal loans at 6.99% interest.. shit is worse than my car loan.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't like the idea of universities getting into the business of
“low-interest” loans to their athletes.
Make the increase a standard part of the scholarships, or have the Big Ten offices handle administration. Any other way will just encourage cheating (or financial creativity, because that’s what some douche OSU fans would re-frame it as).
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
You didn't help earn the U $50,000,000+
They did.
And before anybody trots out “what about women’s basketball, they aren’t a revenue sport”, just stop. This discussion is taking place because of football and men’s basketball. That is where 99% of the problems lie, and they happen because of money. The non-revenue sports are just going to come along for the ride on this one, and good for them.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
No, but I helped the University....
ok.. I did nothing for the University of Iowa. I am stuck somewhere in between the realization that you need some spending money to live and the fact that paying players just doesn’t sit well with me. I know that on many levels paying them makes sense but I just don’t like the feel of it. Can’t put my finger on why.. its probably just me being bitter for having to work my ass off and take out shitty loans to pay for my education.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Everybody that is there and gets a degree...
has “helped the university.” You give it a purpose, you give it money, you cause it to employ people. And, like football players and the NFL, there is a slim chance that you might make it look good if you have success later in life.
Now, if you are there for a semester, you cause a ruckus, you get thrown out, and you’ve been dealing weed to your dorm-neighbors, then I’d say you probably didn’t help the U.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
meh
in those incredibly indirect ways i guess you are right but its nowhere near the level of football players. I honestly haven’t decided how I feel about all of this. Enjoying watching the discussion and trying to figure it out.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, if the university was just the sports programs,
would as many people have a personal connection? Or would they be like pro sports teams, and many people wouldn’t give two shits about it?
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we are getting off topic
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I blame Flakbait, that trouble-maker.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought she was 18
I swear
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
Welcome to BHGP?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
How have we made it this long...
without a devolution into the Civil War, or statistics, or science, or lame puns?
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
good point.. where are rambler and lycurgus when you need them
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Reenacting the Battle of Perryville.
"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."
by ReadingRambler on May 31, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought it was the Battle of the Wilderness
no wonder I have been having such a hard time keeping up.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Wilderness? How are we supposed to communicate over the smell of flaming…well, anyway, the Wilderness was bad and confusing even by Civil War standards
"Colonel, I do not care to die, but I pray to God I may never leave this field."
by ReadingRambler on May 31, 2011 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I was just thinking it would be nice
to have a hog roast after the battle.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
I do like those grilled pineapples.
Mmm.
Going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.... Alright, I'll stop for now.
by EnergizerHawk on May 31, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I helped the U make money
I filled vending machines for two years. 100% of the profit went to the dorms to help everybody living there be able to afford to live there.. And they paid me to do it. I also had several other student jobs that helped the U, and they paid me for those, too.
If I go to the movies, I give the theater a purpose. But it’s costs me $7.50 to get in. The ticket seller and the actors on the screen are getting paid though.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
I understand your sarcasm,
but if you think about it, would movie theaters even be open without the paying customers?
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I just think
the argument that by attending the school you are helping it is silly.
And btw, in-school students are subisdized by the tax payers, so they are, in a way, on a partial scholarship.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
It really depends on what you are doing
If you are an advanced undergraduate making worthwhile contributions to research on campus, then you are contributing significantly to the University. Granting agencies eat that stuff up and undergraduate involvement in research helps PI’s procure grants.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
That's more
than just attending though. And if Microsoft goes to some hot shot undergrad and offers him $15,000 a year if he promises to come work in Redmond after graduation, that would make the front page of the student paper and he would be praised by everybody.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
All I'm saying is,
see what happens to UI if their enrollment dipped by 20%.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
At most R1 institutions
undergrads regularly contribute to on campus research. Most pre-med students (ugh) use it to help get into med school.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Undergrads, yes
but probably not “most” undergrads. Also, they are not prohibited from getting jobs
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
Just trust that those players are working their asses off, too.
And in the case of football, there’s a potential of suffering life-inhibiting injuries. Make ya feel better?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Let's also not forget...
These guys were selling stuff for tats. It wasn’t like they were trading them in on movie tickets and popcorn. Do you really need a government subsidized loan to get “Thug Life” in size 84 Old English font across your back?
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
by tigerhawk00 on May 31, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
+1
Nicely done.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
They were getting tattoos, yes, but that may have just been a fringe benefit.
In all likelihood, the players knew that Rife would pay for their shit and they went to him for cash. Sure they’d get tattoos, but I’d wager that they went to the tattoo shop for money, and not just ink and weed. To assume that they were simply trading rings and gold pants for a fresh tattoo sleeve seems short sighted.
How many people know a tattoo artist personally and receive free tattoos on the regular? I imagine Rife had a similar relationship with the players while also dealing in pawning of OSU goods. I highly doubt that the players traded their things for just tattoos.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Correct.
In fact, yesterday’s SI article says that Rife was also trading/selling at a big discount some vehicles to some players. And also may have been dealing weed to them (usually in small amounts, but one case was about one pound).
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Tatoos and drugs.
Dont forget about the drugs. Though to be fair, plenty of undergrads have legitimate jobs that allows them to buy drugs. Or they sell their plasma twice a month.
The fact of the matter is though that these kids were getting tatoos and drugs and cars. Pryor rolled up in a brand new 350z to practice today. I don’t buy the ‘selling stuff to pay my rent excuse’
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not excusing Pryor and his never-ending rental car deal.
But I also think it’s foolish to think it all started because they wanted to get tattoos and/or some pot. They didn’t need to go to Rife for car deals, as is evidenced by the local car dealer.
I maintain that they went to Rife for funds to do things outside of getting high and showing off their over-the-top Buckeye tattoo sleeves.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
BTW...
I knew that fucker was on the take when I saw him on a pregame clip walking around with those $500 Beatz headphones.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
Maybe they were a gift from a BCS bowl grab bag
He went to plenty
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions
This is completely plausible.
Even if said half-heartedly.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, it had both thoughts in there
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree to an extent
But the point also remains that all of us non-football players in college learned how to get by with 15 dollars in our bank accounts. Yeah, there were plenty of times I wanted to go out and eat or drink with friends, but couldn’t afford it.
I maintain that the ‘helping out the family’ canned response is the exception, not the rule. And if they are helping out the family, they won’t be the ones drawing attention to themselves with their flashy cars or new tattoos. They will also be the guys that are hitting the books the hardest because they want to do some good with their lives.
I think its an insult to all of the hard working student athletes out there that are trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. And it reeks of self-entitlement.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
I think the majority of it was most of the players knew that they could get their tats for “free” with the memorabilia, thus freeing up their money for other things. The car purchases detailed in the SI article, are far more troubling, because those items are “fungible” in a way that tattoos cannot ever be. It is against the rules either way, but I can’t get to worked up about trading signatures for tattoos like I can if they were getting other items they could turn around and sell.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I was wondering this same thing
Because when I was Iowa I had a tuition scholarship for good grades and financial need (I had to maintain at least a 3.0 GPA). That and student loans and working almost full time (seriously, I worked about 30-35 hours a week waiting tables while trying to double major in business) and credit cards are the ways I made it through college. Because I had student loans, I would get a nice refund check from Iowa every semester that I would stretch as long as I could (which wasn’t long).
by HawkgirlSTL on May 31, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
A ramble and a question....
Considering an Ohio State education is now $33k per year for an out of state student (to include room and board), I think that’s sufficient compensation for these kids. Spending money is immaterial to the overall compensation received and is, frankly, a luxury. The future earnings potential in the NFL granted to them by playing in an NCAA D1 format should negate the “unfairness” of not receiving a stipend… but I’m going off on a tangent.
I guess the real question is – why isn’t this a problem for full-rides in less popular sports? My niece played soccer at TN and you didn’t hear about them skirting the system – - but their football brethren were out robbing liquor stores, ostensibly for “spending money.”
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
not just the future earnings potential
the degree that they are given an opportunity to earn has serious value, even if they don’t go pro.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
A lot of these guys
are at schools they are not academically prepared to succeed at. If they do manage to graduate they likely have a degree in something fairly useless (psychology, communications) that they didn’t get very good grades at and aren’t really interested in pursuing, but they had to pick a major.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
First of all
Take it easy on the liberal arts majors. Secondly, perhaps there is something to be said about the idea that there are a lot of these guys going through and not actually being formed in a way that prepares them for life after college. Isn’t that the point of going to school, even if you don’t come in completely ready if you earned a degree you should have the skill set to at least get a decent job.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Post-secondary education:
While the movement has been to cater more toward the student, you probably don’t want to run fast down this path. Universities are expensive enough, imagine what they would become if they were run like high schools.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
There is
and if these guys were devoting full time to school it may do that for more of them. These guys devote lots and lots of time to their sports for their entire fall semester. Basektball will cover both semesters.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
If you don't have the skillset to get a decent job after college
Its your own fault- athlete or non-athlete. College, like high school, is a tool made available to help a person increase their societal and economic value. It isn’t the institutions responsiblity to make you a better person. And frankly, its your choice (to an extent) what school you go to. If you want to bag groceries, go to an SEC school. If you’d like to contribute somewhere else in society, go to the school that affords you those opportunities.
These football players (or really any sport) get the opportunity to go to college for free. If they choose not to utilize that opportunity effectively, I have no sympathy. Between the preferential class selections, tutors, and everything else that comes with being a D1 athlete, there is no excuse not to exceed in college.
I’ll make a deal with any athlete that wants the ‘extra money’ my poor ass got in college. I’ll straight up trade my gross income (from my part full time job, extra loans, and student loans) for their gross income (stipend, free books, tuition, room and board).
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
God bless you, sir.
If you want to bag groceries, go to an SEC school.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
Are you using their gross income to live or simply to attend college and play sports.
Because simply taking their scholarship as a check isn’t close to the same thing. They don’t see any of money, aside from the stipend, so they don’t get to spend it as you would. Sure you could live on $33K a year, but that’s not what they’re doing. They’re playing football for $33K a year and living on $6K a year (assuming a $500 monthly stipend).
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Right, that's what people are missing, and PSUpsych even alluded to it in free books.
They don’t get money for books, for example, and if they can find it cheaper (or not buy it), then yay. They just gett the books.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'm saying I'll trade financial positions with them
Continue living our lives as normal, but every dime that I make/am given will go into their bank accounts and all I get is what is available to them. So I’ll live on campus for four years, get a 2500 stipend, have all of my meals taken care of, and come out of college with no debt. Sure, I may have to stay in a few friday nights. I probably won’t own an ipod, but I’m in a much more enviable financial position at the end of school. I will have a degree and no student loan payments for the next 20 years (seriously. I’ll be paying off my tuition for the next 20 years at a monthly expense that I don’t want to get into right now)
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
But they don't get that 2500 stipend
that’s part of the problem. They get no cash at all.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
Ok fine
I’ll take no cash
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact of the matter is
my 100k dollar education will end up costing me closer to 150 or 200k when I’ve finally paid that off. Assuming I have a job that pays me 60-80k out of school, it takes me three years to make back just the money that I spent on tuition. But I had to, otherwise I wouldn’t have those types of jobs available to me.
The student athlete has zero tuition liability. I haven’t even added in books/room and board/meals yet. On top of it, the student athlete gets to play a sport he loves. I played rugby in college for free. I’d gladly do it again. I’d play football as a walk-on simply because its my dream. This entire argument is precipised on a very small minority of all student athletes that make it ok to have a debate that those with entitlement issues are taking advantage of.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
If you worked 20-50 hours/week
like these kids do on football/nutrition/lifting, and also had something close to the level of real marketability and value they have, then you have an argument. Now? You’re just jealous.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
As athletes people pay a lot of money to watch
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Very few scholarship athletes have a personal value
that matches the value of their scholarship
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
by Lycurgus on May 31, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We're talking revenue sports
and their Title IX hangers-on in this discussion.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Then why does every major university fund them
with almost all of them making quite a bit of profit in the revenue sports?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
How many dollars do you pay to see
the RS-senior 4th string right guard stand on the sideline?
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
1/85th of my ticket price
Socialism, baby!
I’m being facetious, but really, the number of people who well outperform or even best the mean in sports scholarships is probably the same as do in academic scholarships.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering that an academic scholarship
comes with performance requirements, whereas athletic scholarships typically do not, I would challenge your assertion.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
I don't know that we have a study to show either way
So I don’t think we could settle that one. But everyone is on a bell curve of some sort. I suspect you’d find a similar level of flameouts and underperforming academic scholars that made it all 4 years as you would in an athletics scholarship. I would think it’s one of the reasons sports scholarships are awarded in the first place.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
If you don't perform on an academic
scholarship, you are no longer on that scholarship. That is not the way it works with most athletic scholarships.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Should I make an SEC joke?
Because I don’t know how to respond when you said the exact same thing as your previous comment.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Go ahead and imply that I am stupid.
Fuck you for it and don’t expect some agreement from me the next time Ross hurts your feelings.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
WTF?
I was saying an SEC joke about booting underperforming athletes from athletic scholarships.
Why did that turn ugly so quickly, Ly?
And I didn’t ask for agreement from you or anybody on that issue, and it wasn’t because he “hurt my feelings”. Seriously, WTF?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm glad I wasn't the one to play the jealousy card.
I agree whole-heartedly that that seems to be at the center of the “they’re paid with education” camp.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Without getting too much into it
I worked 40 hours a week at a bar (my entire weekend). I worked on campus doing research 10-20 hours a week (when I couldn’t justify that research as a 4xx level class). I had to work because mommy and daddy didn’t help with rent/food/spending money, let alone tution and I wasn’t athletically gifted enough to earn a scholarship. I played rugby in what little spare time I had, and managed to earn very respectible grades while in undergrad.
Now, I’m a very well paid full time physicist working full time and my masters/PhD at night and on the weekends. Thats a benefit that I have at my job. Jealous. Sure. But I don’t feel sympathy for these bs whiny excuses that are overused.
Bottom line- I’d switch financial positions with them and not change a thing about my undergrad. They are/were in a better position during and post schooling
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
You have a mommy AND a daddy?
Probably 25% of OSU’s players are jealous.
I also had to work FT. Construction. I came from poverty and paid my own way entirely. I had an acceptance letter to Harvard that I had to bury because I could only afford state school. I now make excellent money. If I had a marketable skill during school that made me $30K/yr for PT work I would have leveraged that instead of doing construction and so would you. These kids have that skill, that marketable value. Good for them. No hurt feelings from me. Let them also be human when having this scholarship, don’t hold that against them as “all they need”. College is not just about class and football as you’d like it to be for these kids, it’s also about social life (like club rugby you mentioned) and meeting and discovering all kinds of people.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, well...
Shit, I got nothin’. Good for you.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
It was actual a team sport
which carries a slight distinction. We had a full time paid coach, a full time trainer, and access to weight lifting programs. Actually, my junior year we made it to the semi-finals in the NCAA tournament. Of course we lost to cal (they are one of two schools in the nation to actually give rugby scholarships). But I digress. All of the kids on that team weren’t given the luxury of tuition aide. We had to work to pay for the things covered by scholarships.
But I guess my point is lost here. I’m not totally against a stipend. Hell, I think its a good idea. What I’m against is the idea that these kids are so bad off because they can’t work because they are busy playing football. Thats absolutely absurd. While there may be a legitimate claim to this sob story once every few years or so, I feel that canned response is taken to the extreme. And its insulting to those kids that struggle to make it and don’t take benifits while guys like the Tat5 are using money on frivolous expenses.
I would have much more sympathy if the story was about Pryor selling his prized memorabilia so that his mom could afford to make her car payment or put his little sister in daycare or something equally touching. But it wasn’t. He sold memorabilia that meant nothing to him so that he could get a tattoo. He lived/continues to live an entitled life because of who he is. I don’t think thats good for college football, and I certainly don’t think thats good for these kids.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
You make some excellent points there
I still think they deserve more than just enough to get by because of the revenue stream they bring in and all the people around them get paid while the athletes get far less than fair market value, but I can see why and where people would have a problem with that one.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
The last bit is probably what's causing the largest portion of the debate.
I agree entirely that what the tat5 did is stupid and is a clear case of exploiting the system. I’m not attempting to argue on behalf of those that want to spend their stipend on tattoos and weed, but rather the other student-athletes that are simply struggling to make rent.
I think the biggest issue is that some people are assuming that all athletes are just like Pryor or Mo Clarret or Reggie Bush, which isn’t the case. And, as Patrick points out, although the stipend won’t cure the issue with re: to the star players seeking out extra benefits, it will certainly go a long way to helping those that are busting their asses without the attention.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Its easy to lose focus in this debate, especially in light of the recent events. Overall, a very small stipend for all student athletes is a good idea. But it has to remain consistent across all sports.
Side note: I hate the ‘look how much money they bring in argument’ with regards to the football players.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Some people lose sight of the fact
that actual academic pursuits bring much more acclaim and financial benefit to universities than does fucking football.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
by Lycurgus on May 31, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Some people like Delaney?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Fuck Delaney
Major college sports are a vehicle by which the utter stupidity of society at-large infects higher education and skews the standards of conduct and the values of the very institutions built on rigorous learning.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
by Lycurgus on May 31, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You have a problem with society and its value system
Poor Delaney is just your figurehead that gets a “Fuck Him”
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Good debate and discussion
I always appreciate when the commentariat can have a disagreement, have a rational and civil discussion and come to a sensible conclusion. That (and the batshit insanity) is the main reason I come to BHGP.
"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable
by ClaybornSmash on May 31, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
A lot of disagreement but civil discussion in this here thread. Even from a dirty PSUer.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Well in that case
EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG.
Russia and China pay there student athletes. Therefore, paying student athletes is communist. Ricky Stanzi loves America, and hates communists. If you love Ricky Stanzi, you will also hate communism. And if you hate communism, you won’t support paying student athletes.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Well in that case
EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG.
Russia and China pay there student athletes. Therefore, paying student athletes is communist. Ricky Stanzi loves America, and hates communists. If you love Ricky Stanzi, you will also hate communism. And if you hate communism, you won’t support paying student athletes.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
HAHA
Uncultured PSUer double-posted
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Now, Catnuts didn't we have a discussion...
About not calling someone uncultured who really is uncultured?
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
THATS THE JOKE
You really are not getting some jokes today
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
You missed my joke.
See, you’re calling him that thinking he’s not. By virtue of my comment, I’m saying he is.
Oh wait, is your most recent comment even more meta than that? Take the blue pill! Take the blue one!
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
The latter. Too many comments today have made me too cheeky for my own good
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
@psuphysicist
You may hate the revenue stream argument, but it doesn’t change the fact that D1 football is big business that’s built on the backs of unpaid labor. I don’t want to see college players get paid, but the issue is that these guys have tons of restrictions placed on them by the NCAA that dramatically limit their ability to fund that gap between current scholarships and living expenses.
Moreover, there has been recent research that shows that there is a gap between these ‘full ride’ scholarships and the actual cost of attending college. See this link: http://oncampus.mpr.org/2010/10/full-ride-scholarships-not-so-full/
Maybe those of you who oppose a stipend to players can explain why a high paid D1 coach deserves to enrich himself on the backs of unpaid labor. Can you possibly justify why these players don’t deserve a small stipend while their coaches make $3-5 million dollars per years (often with access to private jets)? To those who argue that they are given an incredible opportunity to enter the pros, according to the NCAA’s own website, their chances of making it to the pros is approximately 1.7%. See link: http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Academics+and+Athletes/Education+and+Research/Probability+of+Competing/Methodology+-+Prob+of+Competing
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on May 31, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't really want to get too far into it
And let me be clear, I am in no way disagreeing with your statement that it is big business. It absolutely is. But its big business that supports the rest of the athletic department. Very few athletic departments actually operate in the black. And while coaches may get paid a lot of money, Universities, as a whole, are not really abusing the rights of football players so that they can swim in pools full of beer.
There are some legitimate points there, but the argument about how much they bring into the University doesn’t provide a full picture.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You keep saying "on the backs of unpaid labor"
and making it sound like these guys are forced into sweatshops and diamond mines and some crazy dude (ala Christopher Walken in “The Rundown”) is running the show or something.
These guys are playing football because they love football and some of them have a shot at the pros. It’s not “unpaid labor”. Do you think those guys would enjoy playing if they never got to play in front of a crowd? The university sells tickets so the guys can show off. It’s not like they’re singing circus bears or something.
by HawkAtHeart on Jun 1, 2011 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You had me going...
for a minute there I thought this was a serious response.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 2, 2011 1:56 AM CDT up reply actions
What about it wasn't?
I’m being totally serious.
Yeah, I took the Tat5 as a jumping off poitn for the discussion...
…not as the reason we should be having a stipend. I don’t think many are saying these players are the ones who deserve the extra money, but it’s hard to fairly distinguish them from those that are really struggling.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I went to a Big Ten school
and ended up bagging groceries. Hey, it’s paid for a house and supports 3 kids. Next time you’re buying your food bag your own fucking groceries…but only because someone who contributes to society at such an advanced level should be capable of a menial task.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Jun 1, 2011 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Most of them
will never even be seriously considered by the NFL, let alone make any money.
The athletes never see any of the tuition/room/board money directly, so the amount there is meaningless to the discussion.It can be $1 million, the athlete doesn’t get any of it.
The spending money is very material to this discussion. If you are from a poor family, in school on a scholarship, your buddies are going out Friday night but you only have the small amount you made over the summer to last you basically all year, or you want to live off campus and need to find a way to pay that rent, or want to buy your Mom a Christmas gift, where are you going to get that $$$? The NCAA won’t let you get a job for most of the year.
If you have three conference rings and 4 gold pants trinkets, you may say “I’ll just sell a few of these and make $500, I don’t really want to but I need the money”. Or you can snag a jersey , autgraph it and get some coin. If the stipend can help get rid of that. Good.
Soccer players do not have the same opprotunities that football players have. Boosters aren’t giving them cars. Also, I would bet their demographic backgrounds are quite different from the football team. Football and basketball attract a lot of inner city youth who have no money but do have a background in not giving a fuck about the law.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
by Flakbait on May 31, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree with that argument.
Handing them a degree, or a chance at playing in the NFL…. either one… or both… is handing them something of value, imputed at $33k x 4 or NFL redshirt salary. If they can’t understand that value being provided to them, they’ve got no business in a college anyway.
Beyond that, you make my point for me. Soccer players don’t have the same opportunities, yet you don’t see them violating the same rules. The bad behavior isn’t because they’re poor students on full rides, it’s because football players are indoctrinated into a culture where they’re considered above the law.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
by tigerhawk00 on May 31, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't think you got last his point correctly
Soccer girls, as a whole, almost certainly have a better parental income and financial support than football and basketball. As Vint is pointing out, a lot of this is need-based on a small amount of walking-around money. Money that a female soccer player is more likely to get from their parent than a football/basketball player.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Why do you think soccer girls would have more money in the family than football boys?
Or bball or either?
Just curious.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on May 31, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Demographics.
We’ve had this discussion already this week, so we don’t need to rehash. You don’t like profiling, but I’ll bet if you did a study on the parental income and assistance for a “posh” sport like girls’ soccer (or tennis, swimming, gymnastics) versus a sport like football or basketball (mens or womens) that has a higher propensity for low-income or inner-city children, you’d see exactly what I think you’d see.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
And if soccer were the #1 sport in America
then college soccer players would be in the same situation. Rock stars get special treatment, they always have and always will. If soccer players had free cars and cash being offered to them, a bunch would take it. They don’t So don’t argue what good kids they are when they don’t have anywhere near the same opprotunity to cash in.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
So if I get you correctly...
Football players violate NCAA rules because they’re presented with more opportunities to violate. So then, systemically, the problem isn’t with the football players themselves, but with boosters?
So, by that thinking – should someone who lives closer to Mexico be less guilty of marijuana possession?
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
by tigerhawk00 on May 31, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
what does "less guilty" mean?
I don’t think anyone is saying that if a football player and a female soccer player did the exact same thing that the football player would be less guilty.
You built a straw man.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
See, but that's where I have the problem with this.
I read somewhere that the “full ride” doesn’t even always cover the cost of books. That’s wrong, and should be adjusted/fixed.
Otherwise, they get everything they need. Shelter? Check. Food? In abundance. Clothing? Yup (you can survive with athletic dept sweats as an undergrad- – trust me). NEEDING money for X-mas gifts or beer on a Friday night? How about you make a sacrifice by not going to the bar? They already have a terrible schedule between practices and school, maybe use that bar time to, idunno, study.
Growing up I always wondered how they do it without being able to have a job. Having lived through college (while living in the dorms, with a five day lunch/dinner plan that I could only attend three days a week, I once had to survive over a month on $5 to my name- – I ate ramen and stole bagels from the grab-and-go when I could, collected cans and bottles to go out on quarter “well” night at Union/Four Floors Of Whores, checked DVDs out from the IC Library, etc) and the post-college years, I see that you can get by on next to nothing if you have to. The difference is that these kids have had many, many things handed to them in the run-up to college, so I suppose they can’t be asked to make due while getting a free education (Seriously, $33,000? That’s more than I make in a year at my full time job. AND I’m still paying my student loans.).
Would this extra money take away from the general population of students in any way? That’s what I’m most curious about.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on May 31, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
And if during that month
you had been offered some cash to go sign your name on a trinket, would you have said no? The cashing in here may not be all about “need” but some of it is. Also, go ahead and try to have a rational discussion about the difference between “need” and “want” with most people.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
I NEED MY DIGITAL TV VOUCHER. MY ANALOG SET DOESN'T WORK
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
what rules are there surrounding the signing of said trinket?
we can’t act like that is a completely innocent action on the part of these players. Trivial.. yes.. against the rules.. yes.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
This argument is not completely sincere.
And I said this on the OSU blog ATO yesterday. Principles are something you are supposed to keep even if things aren’t easy. So, if you are Tressel, and you next season might suck, you still forward that e-mail to compliance.
If you are a college athlete, and you know it is wrong to sell shit/your signature/your presence, you may have to suck it up and not do so. Take the Big Ten title ring and give it to your little brother/sister for Christmas. Give your dad an autographed football. Give your mom a day off from the household chores by doing the laundry at home. Don’t sell your soul for $500.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
When I say "Argument not sincere"
I’m talking about the “poor kids have no other choice” one.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, then we can have the whole "what is 'wrong'"?
is it wrong because some white hairs say it is? Or is it wrong because it goes against fundamentals of human society. If it’s only the former, well…
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I think the major difference is that you can go get a job
Or that you can get a student loan. These athletes are prohibited from holding a job &, don’t qualify for loans (b/c of the ‘full-ride’ or the NCAA? I don’t know.). If you cover your school expenses with scholarships &/or loans, you can still go out & get a job for some ‘walking around’ money.
Would it be awesome if those athletes who can’t afford it made the choice to study or work out or just stay in on a Friday night? Sure & my parents no doubt felt the same way about me, but that didn’t make any difference to me when all my friends were heading out to FAC
The University of Iowa: the best 6 years of my life. My parents are very proud.
by HawkeyeGirleye on May 31, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know how this compares
but I was able to get student loans during graduate school even though my tuition was covered by the University
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
they can have summer jobs, though
so all it takes is a tiny bit of planning to have that money throughout the year.
What kind of summer job do you suggest they get?
It’s not as if they have no sports responsibility during the summer. They still have camps, workouts, etc to worry about. It’s not as if they can go work in a manufacturing job somewhere to cover their year long bills with just 3 months’ wages.
During my time in Iowa City, the UI and HyVee had an arrangement where a handful of players would have positions waiting for them during the summer if the players wanted them. None of them made more than minimum wage and they rarely were given more than 20 hrs per week. Assuming they worked the full 12 weeks, they would have made $1800 over the summer. Think that’s easy to live on for the next 9 months?
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I couldn't live off $1800
but i have rent, bills, food, etc. to pay.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
And student-athletes that live off-campus don't have rent, bills or food to pay for?
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
If they're living off campus...
…they’re probably not part of the demographic we’re talking about. The whole “give them spending money to prevent violations” theme predicates itself on the “needy player.”
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
The players are "needy" because they're not living in the dorms and are thus not getting that room & board kickback.
So they’re spending what small amounts of money they do have to pay for rent, bills, and groceries.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Did someone force them off campus?
As I recall, there were seniors living in Hillcrest when I was there. Admittedly, they were creepy… but they were seniors nonetheless.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
Did those seniors have summer obligations at the University?
Like camps, workout sessions, film studies, etc?
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
If they are really "needy"
this seems like a viable option. It may suck for them, but I think they have the option
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
I've never heard of an institution that doesn't allow seniors to live on campus.
A lot of schools, Princeton I know, the rule is that everyone lives on campus with the exception being those that live off.
Of course, all Iowa players MUST live on campus their first two years.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
My wife's school is that way
St. Olaf in Northfield MN (The Fightin’ Olies!). Only Seniors live off campus, and only the ones that get into “Honor Houses”.
Fun fact: Their primary rival is next-door Carlton College. An Olie writer for Fresh Prince gave that name to the geeky character as an insult.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
This is the first time you've enlightened us in at least 2 or 3 days.
Congrats.
/yes, I’m kidding.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
St. Olaf
has one of the world’s greatest hills to go sledding down. Although it can be a real bitch to walk back up the 15th time.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I just lived in Northfield
didn’t go to St. Olaf. Although my ex-gf’s father is/was a French professor there.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
My wife's brother graduated last weekend with a minor in Norwegian
Can’t find that at many schools, I would think.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
My high school art teacher went to St. Olaf.
There. I’ve contributed to the thread. You’re welcome.
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on May 31, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
There are options.
I’m not sure if it is still kosher, but players used to be able to work at those camps.
I’d like to think they could work at a local gym/fitness center.
I’d like to think that, if they really tried, they could find more than 20 hours per week in the summer, as well.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
You can always get a private loan
The interest will be high, but if you want the cash now thats the decision you have to make.
"Penn State is the standard for success with honor. Period. I can’t even believe we’re even discussing that" - ReadingRambler
by psuphysicist on May 31, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't understand
why some keep referring to players getting a ‘free education.’ Iowa football generated approximately $39 million during the 2008-2009 season. Now who do you think earned those revenues? Yes, the coaches actually earned the cash, but guess what? There’s NO TEAM without these highly talented and dedicated players who spend countless hours practicing/conditioning/etc. As a recent Frontline documentary pointed out, if it weren’t for the unpaid labor, college football coaches wouldn’t be earning anywhere near the ridiculous salaries they earn. And yes, the salaries are paid by the athletic department — which only strengthens the argument.
These guys make a shit load of money for the program and to argue that they don’t deserve to have a REASONABLE amount of spending money is bullshit (in my opinion). Remember, they don’t have the option to work and/or take out loans that so many students live on, etc.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on May 31, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Because it is amateur sports, that's why.
If I want to watch a bunch of guys struggle to stay motivated enough to play, I’ll tune in to professional sports. But I prefer to watch guys who are pretty motivated play to represent my state/university. And I don’t need to see my rag-tag group get squashed by OSU because they pay more. (In fairness, I do often watch my rag-tag group get squashed by OSU anyway.)
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
They are amateur athletes because they have no other option
They can’t get into the NFL until 3 years after high school, and the only real avenue to become a professional in the sport is to attend an amateur-level college program for those 3+ years while everyone around you makes money based on your efforts and likeness.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
They have other options.
Semi-pro leagues. I’m not sure, but do the CFL or UFL take younger guys?
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I would like to see a list of NFL players who have made a roster in the past decade that did not play collegiate football
There are no other options.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
The other option is to not play football
And plan for a non-NFL life. Terrible, I know…
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
That's a horribly dismissive point
for kids that use football as their best chance of making it.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Or, you could play football,
and still plan for a possible non-NFL life.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
That is the point, though
If football is their best chance on making it, there is a problem. The system will seek ways to exploit that, regardless of the rules.
So they can know they get the shaft for at least 3 years, or choose not to. Their call, but I don’t feel for them if they break the rules.
Just like the BYU BBall player and the honor code. Is the honor code fucking stupid in my mind—hell yeah…but he’s the one that signed up to play there. In that case he did have other options, more so in playing NCAA football or not. But these kids still get to choose. If they would rather take out loans like the rest of us and work whenever they want…they have that option.
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
You can't expect every kid who uses football as his chance
to become a martyr to frugality when corruption can be so easy. Hence the stipend. Give them a ‘living wage’ for the immense amount of time they put in and the money they create. It won’t curb everything but I think it will help in a lot of cases.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Hence why I think it's ridiculous that anyone would think any program is clean.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
As long as it is based on cost of living
and not proportional to the $ generated, then I think it could work. In other words, average rent in the area should be factored. The AD profits of the school should not.
Otherwise the big would obviously get the most benefit—and recruits would likely follow.
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
I think it has to be the same for all teams in a conference.
Inequality can lead to more cheating or incentive to cheat.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely the same would be better
But I can already hear the Bronco nuts out here complain that they can’t pay what the B1G can pay…
Not that I really give a shit, but all smaller conferences would not like it.
I still think the wide range of cost of living even within the B1G should be a factor
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
I understand those points.
I just can’t support a system where Michigan, OSU, PSU, Minnesota, and maybe Wisky can offer their players more cash than Iowa, Illinois, IU, jNW, Purdue, MSU, Nebraska
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Patrick's article states that schools would have trouble using the stipend's as an additional recruiting measure.
Mostly because of the red-tape associated with finding ways to offer more money.
At least I think that’s what this is saying:
Because each school has to determine and publish its full cost of attendance in connection with federal financial aid, a school couldn’t turn this into a salary race for top players without drastically increasing financial aid outlays for every other student.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It costs more
to live in Minneapolis or Evanston than it does Iowa City. And the Iowa coaching staff will make sure the recruits know it.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
It would all have to be published for all to see
What the cost of living is and what each school can pay.
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
I am pretty sure this list is comprised of
95% kickers/punters
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
In the last 10 years? Maybe a punter or two, but I doubt any kickers
Kicking for NFL is highly specialized at this point.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
You are probably right
but both of those positions are about the only shot, right? At least in the time frame you mention
Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.
That's precisely my point. There is no other option
so the idea that they don’t have to play by NCAA’s amateurism rules is wrong. It’s the only game in town.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
OK, a short list I've compiled
Entirely from unreliable internet sources because I couldn’t find one that I consider reliable, so take it with a grain of salt:
P Sav rocca
P Ben graham
G Stephen Neal
TE Antonio Gates (should have known that one)
DT Eric Swann was drafted #6 overall in 1991 after playing for a small-time semi-pro team, but his last NFL year was 2000
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_NFL_player_never_played_collage_football#ixzz1Nxowariu
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you just make that wiki entry?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
No, and I didn't intend for it to stay on there when I cut-pasted. Oops
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I was just joshin' ya.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That's one of the unreliable sources I mentioned.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Gates played college hoops,
and I think Neal was a college wrestler.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
It's amateur sports
only in the sense that players don’t get paid. College sports is HUGE business with everybody making incredible money with the exception of the players. So yes, if your definition of amateur sports is that everyone makes a killing but the players, then you’re absolutely right.
You seem like an open-minded person chazz (no I’m not being sarcastic). Read this article and see how you feel. http://www.sportscardforum.com/articles/2011/01/the-ncaa-and-the-amateur-athlete-myth/
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on May 31, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I read it.
I still feel like they are amateurs. I don’t think they are employees. When a coach yanks their scholly, it is shady, but legal.
This system is made by the NCAA and its schools, so it is not shocking that it favors those schools over the players.
As I said below, I’ll tolerate (even though I am uneasy about) giving the players another $5k or so per year. But I still don’t think we should go to a salary-based system or the outright professionalization of college sports.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Who said
that universities should start paying athletes a salary? I would hate that. At the same time, I think that it’s fair to a) make sure that the scholarships actually cover the expenses of school and b) provide a reasonable stipend acknowledging that these players are have restrictions placed on them that hinder their ability to earn extra money.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on May 31, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps we are on the same page, then.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
They're getting a hell of a lot more...
Than the kids who work in the labs for $10/hr. that actually find cures for shit. At a full-time rate of 2080 hours a year, that’s $20,800 in taxable income that doesn’t completely offset the $33k in tuition.
If you want to give these kids something of real value, give them disability insurance. That way, if they blow out a knee they aren’t selling crack the next week.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
What?
Is the kid in your example going to school, as well? How are they paying for schooling? Help of their parents and federal loans (ya know, the things that the student-athletes don’t have)? I don’t understand your argument, here.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't think I needed to provide a bio.
There are a lot of science majors, paying for school themselves, that work in research. They get paid just over minimum wage and provide a much bigger service to their school and society than playing football.
My point is to say that you can’t dismiss a college education as a form of compensation.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
But the comparison isn't the same.
Your example is, presumably, using student loans or parental support to pay for school while working in the lab on the side. The athletes don’t have that option. Your $33K comparison is completely washed out by the financial aid or parental support being used by the science major to pay for school, meaning the $20,800 is money in this kid’s pocket every year.
If the kid isn’t getting help from mom or the government then he clearly can’t afford to go to school on his measly $20,800 salary. So the comparison is even more invalid because the lab tech isn’t even in college.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
The backstory is irrelevant...
Cost to attend OSU for random a$$hole who pays his own way…. $33k
Cost to attend OSU for random a$$hole football player………………..$0
Benefit to both random a$$holes………………………………College Education
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
Okay, let's assume your college student example was offered a full-ride for being a genius.
PLUS he works in the lab and pockets $20,800. Why does he get to do that while the student-athlete has to make due with the scholarship that he was given for his talents? Where does the student-athlete bridge that gap?
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not bullseye, red herring.
I’m talking about what the university pays for and how much they pay for it. I don’t give a shit if Pryor wants to work at Taco Bell for some spending cash. In the end, the university pays him $33k to throw a ball while some zit-faced kid plays with test tubes and chemicals for $20k.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
But Pryor doesn't have time to work at Taco Bell because he has football obligations.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Who gives a shit?
That’s not the point.
I understand you! They should be free to pursue other jobs. I get that. Stuff a fucking fork in my eye… I promise you I get it!
In the end, there are two jobs. One: throw a ball – $33k. Two: work in research – $20k.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
I'm not arguing that they should be able to pursue other jobs.
Because I can’t imagine they’ve got time for other jobs.
I fully support the additional stipend because they don’t have the ability to find other jobs. I see nothing wrong with Delany’s current plan. In fact, the $2500-$5000 number in the article seems incredibly low, but I know nothing of the math used to get to that number.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't care
but the NCAA does. Mr. Pryor is only allowed to run for the border for a few weeks in the summer. Which, btw, is not the same as our genius who is working in the lab honing the skills that will get him a job later on.
The NFL isn’t looking for guys who can make a perfect gordita.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
I don't think you're following.
His cost of attendance is $33k.
He is only making $20,800.
He can’t afford the cost of attendance. Thus, he’s either not actually going to school full-time (so invalid), or he’s getting at least $12,200 from another source – e.g. parents or loans or scholarships (so invalid).
If he wants to attend a school where cost is $33k, then he has to have at LEAST $33k coming in from somewhere.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
This is getting absurd.
Who gives a shit about what the parents or the federal government gives a kid. Put that to bed.
My point is that football players get paid – by the university – in the form of education, to perform their duties. At OSU, that’s $33k/yr. The lab worker gets paid a taxable $20k a year – by the university – in the form of cash, to perform their duties. Ostensibly, someone curing the clap is more needed in our society than someone catching both the clap and a football.
Either way, my point is to compare what the university deems each role is worth, and what they’re paid by the university. If mommy and daddy help, then that’s on both sides of the coin. You have to tell that story when talking about the football player too.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
But mommy and daddy aren't always on both sides of the coin.
Which is the point.
Football players don’t necessarily come from environments in which parents can support them without state aid. A mom on food stamps may be able to get her son through high school but can do nothing for him when his football talents take him to State U.
I’d also argue that the education your lab tech is getting, and able to pursue, is drastically different than that of the average football player.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions
So now we're getting into the values system of what a university pays?
I thought we were capitalists?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
The point of the NCAA is to thwart an open market...
And thus keep universities equal on their merits and not let boosters buy players. While some might compare that to anti-trust policy, I think that’s closer to socialism.
But, what we’re really talking about, is whether an education is a form of compensation and it’s relative worth to the athlete.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
How is it socialism
when there is still disparity in non-monetary forms of compensation among universities?
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Socialism doesn't necessarily imply...
…absence of inequity or inequality. Regulation of the market to balance competing entities indicates socialism.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
Meth, not crack. It's Iowa
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I was talking in terms of Columbus.
Crack – definitely crack.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
They're that smart yet not getting any scholarship or loan money?
They must not have filled out a FAFSA.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
So stealing food is the solution?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Jean Valjean says yes.
/Les Mis’d
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
-1
Too fancy a reference.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
Seymour Skinner says you're uncultured

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I got the reference.
I just wanna keep things at a base level in these parts.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
I knew you got the reference
My joke was apparently not clear enough. I wouldn’t seriously call a person ‘uncultured’ if I truly believed it. That’s elitist and condescending as a mofo
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I would totally call someone uncultured...
Especially if I believed it. Does that make me a bad person?
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
I don't know about "bad" but it would make you mean.
I’ll bet you wouldn’t say it to a guy you thought might kick your ass for it. There are more virtues in life than just intelligence or culture…
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I probably would say it...
It would just be from inside a passing car. I live in Kentucky… I’m used to being quiet about how much better I am than everyone else.
….I kid…. I kid…
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
Haha
I live in Kentucky… I’m used to being quiet about how much better I am than everyone else.
nice
"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable
by ClaybornSmash on May 31, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Because each school has to determine and publish its full cost of attendance in connection with federal financial aid, a school couldn’t turn this into a salary race for top players without drastically increasing financial aid outlays for every other student.
Wouldn’t this have the unintended consequence of providing a benefit to private institutions since their personal expenses and transportation costs generally run higher than other schools? From this site, it appears they are in the neighborhood of $1000 more than public institutions. Imagine how an extra thousand a year may appeal to a kid choosing between Notre Dame and State U.
I also don’t know if cost of attendance considers a Cost of Living Adjustment or not. Private institutions in a city may provide a higher stipend due to their geographic location. Schools like Southern Cal, Miami (FL), and jNW could offer top dollar amounts to prospective students.
@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com
Yeah, but the catch is
You’d have to go to jNW. Might be a problem for the other schools you mention though
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on May 31, 2011 12:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
OK, how about TCU?
Private institution, BCS program in 2012, SAT percentiles are lower than both Iowa and Iowa State, located in the city of Fort Worth, and a football-loving alumni fanbase. How would Texas A&M compete with them for recruits?
@jschnauzer
Bloggin' at http://joepasdoghouse.com
Stanford vs Cal also
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The geographic part may be true
The private vs. public part would be limited by the fact that this still has to pass federal scrutiny. That might be tough to do when you claim that the cost of living in South Bend is three times that of Bloomington.
Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.
by Patrick Vint on May 31, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I was against any increase that the Big Ten was considering.
Now, maybe I’m OK with a scholarship value increase of somewhere around $5000 (maximum).
While I do feel a bit for poorer athletes who can’t afford Christmas gifts, I also think it is a bit absurd that we are on the cusp of universities subsidizing the weekly drinking (or in the OSU’s case, tattooing and weed-smoking) habits of the athletes. It just seems wrong to do this, especially since you do have plenty of good, hard-working, average students who may never see the same benefit (for example, if your parents are just above “working class” but their college student doesn’t get a handful of cash everytime, either).
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
I still don't get why it has to be "subsidizing" this behavior.
Why can’t it just be paying them for their services and allowing them to spend their money how they want. My job (before I came back to school) never worried about subsidizing anything for me.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
They subsidized my behavior.
I was on half-ride for four years and borrowed money for living expenses, which was in no small part drinking money.
Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.
by Patrick Vint on May 31, 2011 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Tressel did what he did because he wanted to protect his players from breaking a rule that he and his players clearly felt was improper and insignificant.
It would seem to me that if Tressel was trying to make a statement rather than trying to cover his ass, then he would have come clean at the time they questioned him and said “Of course I knew what they were doing and I didn’t turn them in because I think it is wrong that players have to sell their jerseys so they can have awesome tatoos that any other poor student not on a full scholarship could get by working part-time jobs”
He didn’t say anything and let the players take the punishment which kind of makes me think he was perhaps not so noble as you seem to portray him.
"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants
by Kluginator on May 31, 2011 12:21 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I keep coming back to John Gasaway's idea.
The world would continue to spin if tomorrow the NCAA said, in effect, amateurism’s a tough old gal, one who needs rather less helicopter-parenting and certainly way fewer bylaws. The nut graf of the press release from Indianapolis would go something like this:
The NCAA and its member institutions today acknowledge that in a limited number of highly visible instances the clear line of demarcation between college and pro sports will be more like a permeable membrane. That’s fine. It’s not cause for panic. In fact it’s a happy day for the student-athlete so singled out by the professional ranks. For our part we’re introducing a new post-1910 student-athlete-centered model of positive amateurism, one that doubles down on academic achievement and education in the broadest sense of the term. In exchange for henceforth being permitted to sign with an NBA- or NFL-certified agent, athletes would be required to meet and maintain a slightly higher standard for academic eligibility than that which is in place now. It’s a bucks-for-books quid pro quo.
If an accredited agent wants to put their money at risk by advancing it to a player who may or may not become a first-round draft pick someday, so be it.
Letting high school seniors sign with agents while they sign their LOIs? Your initial gut reaction isn’t good, I know. But when you take a step back, it’d let the star athlete get his due in a way that’s finally above board, and would do a great deal to take the hypocrisy of the NCAA down a few notches.
Fail again
So I’ll just let you get there yourself.
by Cattlefeeder on May 31, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think the answer is "more agents."
And by answer, I mean “answer to anything.”
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
more agents is not going to clean up the way things are run.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on May 31, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact is
there is flat out a shit-ton of money in major college athletics and any industry with that “problem” is going to have some level of corruption.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
The agents are already there
as are the boosters.
The War on Drugs has failed to the point that decriminalization is (and should be) a legitimate option.
By the same token, bringing what’s already happening here out into the light is the best option for cleaning it up. Kirk Ferentz has an agent. I assume Ferentz considers him to be honest and upright. He refers his graduating seniors to agents as well.
Why not let the players sign up four years earlier? Why not have a registration and vetting process that clears out the scuzzballs? Why not let the superstars get a return in proportion to the wattage they bring to television sets? It certainly won’t be NFL money, but if an agent deems Blake Larsen a good investment at $20,000 per year coming out of high school, is that such a bad thing?
The proposal the Big Ten puts on the table has Title IX issues that once again lump men’s football and basketball with sports with which they have nothing in common, as well as furthering the divide between the top 60 corporate BCS schools and the rest that try to thrive on the leftovers.
by Cattlefeeder on May 31, 2011 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
by Blackheartnopants on May 31, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Why not?
The Yankees. As you correctly point out, the current proposal furthers the divide between the Big 6 conferences and everybody else. And let’s not kid ourselves, it’s a deliberate attempt to keep those upstarts (I’m looking at you Boise) from playing with the big boys.
That being said, letting players hire agents and paying them out of high school just means and Texas (and others) will stockpile a vast amount of talent. As it is, coaches promise playing time to highly touted recruits, because they know that more playing time equals a greater shot at the NFL. If you say to a highly ranked kid here’s $20,000, you’ll have to sit a year or two because of guys in front of you, but we will put you in front of the biggest hype machine ever if you come here, most will. On the flip side, what if a school like, oh, Michigan, sunk a ton of its money into one 5 star, can’t miss guy, who then put up amazing numbers, but due to his cost, they couldn’t afford to pay for a defense. (I know, that sort of thing couldn’t happen).
Also, and maybe this is just me, but I tend to think scuzzball when I think agent. I can’t see any good happening in this situation, unless you want it to become the pre-NFL, with salary caps and all.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on May 31, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
So what happens when
all football and bball players are given this “spending money” and the infractions don’t stop. Because no matter how much you pay these student athletes, they are going to be offered additional money/benifits that are against the rules. So what then? Pay them more?
I don’t know why people think that paying all players some small stipend is going to solve the problem.
he acknowledged this
towards the end of the article.. but it should help slow it down.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
It is intended to stop the problem of guys like Tressel having to intervene on small need-based amounts
Not to stop all corruption. That one’s impossible. But to stop a large percentage of them? That’s a valuable thing, and not just for saving face for HCE coaches
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
You know what would help stop much of the corruption?
An NCAA with the balls and competence to enforce their own rules.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes, I think we are...
more likely to see Batman than the NCAA act as it should.
And, I’d rather Batman was focused on criminals in the shadows of the night. I don’t need him going “pop, biff, bang” on Tressel and Pryor.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
It is simply impossible
to ever hire enough police, intelligence agents, or the like to stop corruption or whatever deviant act you’re looking to prevent.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what you say.
But you live in California, where even the cops are corrupt.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Why can't we just get rid of scholarships?
Every school can offer $250,000 max to all football and basketball players. Those players can decide how they want to spend that money but they don’t get free school, tuition, room/board, or books and if they don’t pay for school they can’t play and they foreit the remaining balance on the $300,000. The $250,000 would be paid out every other week just like a job and they would be required to pay their tuition room and board on their own. If they don’t make payments they become ineligible and become suspended for a certain period of time.
A baseball park is the one place where a man's wife doesn't mind his getting excited over somebody else's curves
Interesting idea.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Except,
if we can’t trust some of the players not to get high during December, I’m not sure I want to just hand them that check every other week, and hope that they pay their tuition, room and board, etc.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions
It would add a whole new dimension to evaluating "character"
But I bet a lot of schools would do what I forced myself to do. Whenever I got my student loan check each semester, I pre-paid every bill for the next five months as best I could. I’m sure a lot of coaches would hate it, it would never happen, but it is interesting.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
It would add a whole new set of staff positions at most schools
Some sort of “Student Financial Advisory” office to help make sure the athletes are keeping up on bills, rent, etc. would pop up in every Athletic Department.
Not if they pay in Chizek nickels, Schrute bucks, or Hawk dollars
that are only redeemable at Universities, tattoo parlors, or car dealerships.
Hey Dolph, you look like I need a beer.
by Give Eddie a Beer on May 31, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced they'd pay necessary bills
Look at Pryor’s car. Wheels and bling. These guys are live like rock stars as it is. If you gave them a big check, I tend to believe many would further that lifestyle, then be broke
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on May 31, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
and off the team
how’s this “bad”
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I'm just saying
I tend to believe that a cost of living stipend is a good thing. But I can’t shut up the side of my brain that tells me that it will be abused, and that (some) 18-22 year olds who are treated like campus gods will use any money to try to emulate NFL players, rap / rock stars, and the like. That part of my brain says hell no to a stipend.
Guys who abuse the system like that won’t automatically be kicked off the team. Unless there are rules about how to use the money, one guy could use it as intended, another could be buying shots every weekend at the bar. Also there will always be unscrupulous fans / boosters who are willing to funnel benefits, and any stipend will make those impermissible benefits harder to trace
I don’t know. I just don’t know.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on May 31, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions
The first point is that
they don’t get a ‘free education.’ If they don’t play football, they don’t get the scholarship. There is no ‘free.’ Second, the universities and NCAA have designed the system based on scholarships because paying players would open up a whole range of problems that would endanger the business model of collegiate athletics, i.e., workers comp issues, tax exempt status, etc.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on May 31, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally cool with players getting a bit extra
That Big Ten Network jackpot wad is sure going to come in handy!
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
by Blackheartnopants on May 31, 2011 1:57 PM CDT reply actions
If the Delaney scholarship does go through...
how much will that play into a recruit’s decision? I know if it’s me then I’m way more likely to go to a B1G school with the extra scholarship money than to an SEC or BXII school that don’t provide that bonus. Although, I’d imagine that they would follow suit shortly thereafter to make sure they don’t fall too far behind.
That last sentence sort of answers your own question.
Once Delany seals the deal, all other conferences have a precedent to point to and the stipend will pass nationwide.
by The Mexican't on May 31, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
If the B1G honestly looks to do this
do you think the SEC won’t have their own policy signed within 24 hours?
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on May 31, 2011 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I think I read somewhere
that this has to be a country-wide thing—a new regulation in the NCAA. So, every school/conference would have the option of doing it, not just B1G.
This is not going to help in any way
When I was in college, “….simply covering tuition, room and board, and books…” was enough to survive. Now all of a sudden you need money for beer, gas, tattoos, etc. The reason these guys can’t survive on what they are getting is that they have an entitlement atitude fostered throughout the years of their dominance at the high-school and inrtermediate levels of education.
So how is this going to change ANYTHING? You give these guys $5000/year, and all of a sudden that won’t be enough for strippers, blow and Cadillac Escalades they now suddenly need, so the exact same scenario will be in place.
Let these guys get part-time jobs if they want, but this stipend nonsense will change NOTHING.
by DrHenryKillinger on May 31, 2011 3:51 PM CDT reply actions
this x 1000
When I was in college I was happy with no scholarship making $9.00/hour part time.
Nobody is going to mention the CBAA episode that Vint slipped in there casually?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
Does that look like about $5,000 apiece to you?
Looks like about $5,000 apiece to me.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 3:56 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
+1
“…with my mind on my money and my money on my mind.”
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
One of my favorite things about that picture
they put 20s on the outsides of all the stacks but with the one fanned in DD’s mouth it appears it’s all 1s in the middle. Reminds me of “My Cousin Vinny”
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on May 31, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
not quite..
“with my mind on my money and my money on my mind in my mouth
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
someone had to do it!
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
With my mind on my money and my money on getting hepatitis from putting money in my mouth
"Enjoy the diarrhea."
by Bucketochicken on May 31, 2011 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well, then, give them nothing else...
Give them the Dean Wormer lecture about educational values and then see what happens.
If you want true “student athletes” go watch the Iowa Conference. If you want to watch the best at their best, be prepared to have your team run like a business. This is a game and a business.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but it seems like many of you are offended that these young men look around at a billion dollar business and wonder why they can’t get a little more.
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
by Blackheartnopants on May 31, 2011 4:13 PM CDT reply actions
I'm offended that they take and sign a scholly from their school
and then look around and wonder why they can’t get a little more.
I’m not sure the life of an athlete is so hard and requiring of sympathy.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on May 31, 2011 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Just so I can get this straight...
Does your average full-ride athletic scholarship meet an institutions cost of attendance? Or does it meet the institutions tuition and fees?
It is supposed to meet the exact cost of attending to school, not the "full college experience"
tuition, fees, books, yes
meal plans and board, yes
extra money for notebooks and pens and computers, i dont know
money for music, gas money to see mom, plane ride to attend dad’s funeral, drinking, partying tattoos, no
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Maybe
this article sheds some light on the topic.
http://oncampus.mpr.org/2010/10/full-ride-scholarships-not-so-full/
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on May 31, 2011 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok so, the cost of attendance then?
Because the UI Office of Financial Aid has this handy little webpage available… HERE
I know when calculating my financial aid the categories you see there called “Personal” and “Transportation” are included. To me, this means it’s included in the scholarship. Granted it’s only around $3500, but I think people are mistaken (or I am wrong here) to think that all of these players have zero spending dollars.
Who's Profits Are we Disgorging?
A popular sentiment for paying players is that fatcats are getting rich on the backs of poor student athletes. So who’s making the $$. Iowa profited by about 27 million on football in 2010 but the athletic dept as a whole only made 14 million. So 13 million in FB profits subsidized other sports. That leaves $14 million to the University. So who’s the fatcat getting rich? Coaches and commissioners sure make a lot of money, I’ll give you that. Outside of them, tuition-paying students, I guess. Because the University makes 14 million without paying athletes you get a good education and nice buildings for that much cheaper on the backs of those athletes. You should be ashamed of yourselves students.
No
we should be ashamed of ourselves condoning and justifying a feudal college sports system that expects a professional level of performance and then begrudges the players pocket change. Shame on us. Moreover, what income qualifies one a fat cat? Ferentz’s contract earns him up to $5.5 million (with bonuses) per year. Where I come from, that’s a pretty fat cat.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on May 31, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Some fat cats are worth paying are they not?
It has been discussed at length how much Ferentz means to the Iowa program on this site and I think there is a general consensus that as much as we all love the game of College football it is just not that much fun when your team is not competitive. I am betting that fielding a competitive team year in and year out is a job that only a few people out there can do at a place like Iowa. Ferentz doesnt get paid for sitting around drinking lemonade and watching 18-22 year olds play ball. He is the face of of the organization that makes millions every year for the University and works tirelessly to make sure the team remains competitive. A fat cat he may be but he is a fat cat that is paying for his slice of the pie with his outstanding work.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that
most here generally support Ferentz and think he’s worth the money and there’s no denying that he works hard. I used to feel that Ferentz is definitely worth the money, but lately I’ve become increasingly uneasy about the huge money involved in D1 sports – the profits of which rest on the business model of the ‘student athlete.’
Finally, does Ferentz earn his money? Well, of course depends on how well the Hawks are doing at any given time (at least in the minds of many). Last year, Ferentz was the eleventh most expensive coach in D1 football – he cost the U of I approximately $472,000 per win (in 2007 he was the sixth most expensive coach costing 550,000+ per win). Is he worth it? I suppose he is as long as the fans and university are reasonably happy.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 1:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I have never been a big fan
of the cost per win statistic. It is really a silly way to look at it because we all know a win at OSU, USC, Texas, or Florida is much easier to come by than one at Indiana or Iowa. I honestly think that Ferentz has the hardest job in the big ten because he is running a program with about the worst built in recruiting advantages and has to keep a fan base satisfied that has grown accustomed to Jan 1 bowl games. Much more difficult than playing conservative football and allowing the massive talent disparity work its course (like Tressel did for the last 10 years)
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Jun 1, 2011 6:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Was it Rittenberg who wrote the article after Ferentz’s contract extension stating why it was important for Iowa to pay high dollar to the right coach than risk him leaving? I vaguely remember he cited just those reasons & how much sense it made to me.
The University of Iowa: the best 6 years of my life. My parents are very proud.
by HawkeyeGirleye on Jun 1, 2011 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree that
it’s an arbitrary measure and is far too simplistic to account for the challenges that schools like Iowa face. I think that Ferentz has done a great job at Iowa in most areas and my comments on this thread relate mostly to the current NCAA system and aren’t a critique of Ferentz per se. I used Ferentz as an example since he’s Iowa’s coach — I think that it’s fair that we examine our own program first (contrary to the common practice of criticizing everyone’s school but your own).
But to elaborate on this topic, Ferentz will be valued at Iowa the same way that all coaches are valued. As you say, fans have much higher expectations now and that adds tons of pressure. Because Ferentz has an excellent agent and has been able to command top dollar for his client, that also puts extra pressure on him to produce — which theoretically should work to everyone’s advantage. Now that he’s the highest paid coach in the Big Ten with Tressel’s ‘resignation,’ I think that the level of scrutiny both here and the national media will be heightened (most readers have probably noticed references to Ferentz’s salary for several years now in various national publications).
In the end, it will work out fine for Ferentz as long as he can keep the fans relatively happy. The one thing he hasn’t been able to do yet is produce teams that consistently meet expectations (and consistently beat jNW) and if that continues as a trend, I suspect he’ll eventually find himself in the hot seat. I like Ferentz and I’d like to see him stay and prosper but ultimately the fans and boosters are the ‘deciders’ and if it’s one thing regulars to BHGP have learned — fans can be a bunch of fickle of motherfuckers.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait.
but I think Brian Cook has it right.
/shudders
I will haunt your dreams and eat your children.
Just amazed this didn't launch a 3000 word diatribe by Bellanca
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I worked 35 hrs/week my freshman year to pay for school and for "walking around" money
Point is that I was able to get a job to make some cash for pizza and beer. College athletes are denied the ability to get a job both by lack of free time and by NCAA rule. For this reason only would I be OK with college athletes getting some beer money from Papa Delaney.
You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!
by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on May 31, 2011 9:07 PM CDT reply actions
They are only denied during the school year
They are free to find Summer jobs. At the end of the Spring “Game” Marcus Coker was the last player off the field – he had stayed well beyond the allotted time and literally signed every single last autograph asked of him. He stayed until EVERY fan was done….or chased off. As he walked off the field I overheard a brief exchange between he and a security guard. Security asked him what he was doing this Summer and if he was going home during the break. He answered that he was staying in Iowa City over the Summer and working.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on Jun 1, 2011 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions
And I've heard Coker has some very big academic aspirations.
I wouldn’t be shocked if his summer job was at least slightly related to a possible major or endorsement/certification or whatever.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 1, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I think D1 athletes should take a lesson from their D3 counterparts.
I went to a D3 private school. My four years there were worth roughly 100k in tuition/books/room/board/etc. I got the highest academic scholarship they offered and still had 20k in student loans when I got done. There was no such thing as a full ride unless you were really smart AND really poor (financial aid was combined achievement and need-based).
We had football, volleyball, baseball, softball, track, soccer, and wrestling teams, yet division three is not allowed to give athletic scholarship. Yes, I know they sometimes give “academic” scholarships to athletes that might not necessarily deserve them, but I’m pretty sure none of those athletes got a full ride. I was at one time going to play basketball, but I was never offered any extra money because of it.
These athletes didn’t have much future earning potential in their sport. It’s not like D3 leads to the NFL draft very often. They put in just as much time during the school year as D1 athletes and still took full course loads. Maybe the off-season wasn’t as tough, but it was still a huge commitment for a good portion of the year and they could never have held down a steady job.
For some reason, these players theoretically were in a worse financial situation than full-scholarship D1 athletes, but in my 4 years there I never remember hearing about a scandal of this sort for the sake of “spending money”.
I’ll give you that a lot of the students at Simpson may have had decently well-off families to rely on, but I personally knew a lot that didn’t. The student-athletes there played sports because they loved the game, and they were willing to make a full-time commitment to something that had virtually no reward other than enjoyment and pride.
You would think that D1 athletes would feel the same about their sports, but with the added benefit that if they are good enough they might get to play that sport as a paying career. Even if they don’t, they get to be semi-famous for 4 years and still do what they love while getting an education for FREE.
I’m sorry, but I don’t feel sorry for them. College kids are supposed to be poor. Those of us who had the time to get jobs still didn’t make even close to the amount of money while in college that we’re paying back on loans now that we’re out. I never made more than $8/hr at any job while in college, and that doesn’t even come close to the $700/mo my husband and I were paying on student loans at one point in time. Even now that we’ve paid some of our loans down and he got a sizable loan repayment bonus from the Army, we still pay over $400/mo of our measly single military income in student loans.
Ask me again how sorry I feel for student athletes in 20 years when we finally get done paying off our combined 100k loan bill. A free education is worth WAY more than a little extra money for beer and pizza, or tattoos and drugs.
by HawkAtHeart on May 31, 2011 9:16 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
you didn't hear about any scandals because who the fuck wants to pay a simpson athlete $500? to play there?
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Also a former college athlete
though I went the D2 juco route.. two differences that merit mentioning.. I don’t believe that d2 and d3 athletes spend as much time on their craft as d1 athletes and there was no restriction on you having a job to help support yourself. Other than that I think some great points there.
He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on May 31, 2011 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
These
aren’t free educations – why is that so difficult to understand. These guys get scholarships and are expected to play at a very high level in return. What is ‘free’ about that arrangement?
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions
That isn't exactly true
When was the last time Iowa revoked a football scholarship because a kid wasn’t performing as well as expected? They are expected to put forth effort, but being good at football doesn’t actually seem to be much of a requirement.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Good point
I worded my post sloppily — hey, it was late. Players get scholarships to play football. They don’t get a football scholarship for being great guys. They’re expected to prepare to become starters to the best of their ability. If they don’t work out for reasons other than disciplinary, I haven’t heard of any case that they’re booted from the team, so in that sense you’re absolutely right. Nevertheless, they are expected to play football in exchange for their scholarship so by definition it’s not free — it’s conditional. And that’s the way it should be. But it’s not free. If I was passing by the Kenyon practice facility and Ferentz grabbed me and offered me an extra scholarship he had laying around with no strings attached (hey, he wants me to be me) THAT would be a free education. Sadly, I’ve had about as much learnin’ as I can take.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions
You are right
The education is compensation for participation in intercollegiate athletics.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
So the argument is, then
The education isn’t enough compensation. I certainly don’t disagree with the stipend to take care of the full cost of attendance (equal with the “Full Ride” academic scholarships), but anything beyond that I’m extremely uncomfortable with.
The other argument that has been made (can’t go pro until after college) is bogus. Playing in the NFL, NBA, etc is not an unalienable right. They can’t go straight there because the leagues and their unions have collectively bargained rules to prevent it. Don’t like it? Sue the leagues (good luck with that). Saying there is no alternative employment option is simply wrong. You can go to any number of other “leagues” that don’t have those restrictions, or go overseas.
Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.
by benvious on Jun 1, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It would be akin to suing Boeing for not letting you work as an aeronautical
engineer despite not having a degree. It seems to me that an industry can set their own baseline standards of employment.
A full ride at Stanford would be worth around 50K a year. That is better than what a lot of graduates make a year. I think an additional stipend would be fine though. There is a lot of money that is made off of the backs of those kids.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
The argument is
that a) the true costs of going to school need to be covered and b) because ‘student-athletes’ don’t have the same opportunities to earn extra money because of restrictions placed on them by the NCAA to avoid the appearance (or reality) of bogus jobs provided by boosters, they should receive a stipend to cover incidentals. Nobody is talking about paying them salaries. So I think that we’re basically in agreement.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I still consider it a free education.
A lot of college athletes would still go to college even without a sports scholarship. Also, a lot of athletes still play college sports even if they can’t get a scholarship, simply because they want to play. I think most D1 athletes would fall into this category, therefore the are getting the college degree they would’ve gotten anyway while getting the opportunity to play a sport they love. So yeah, they play football so that they can earn the education, but it’s not like they are 7 year old children working in sweater factories in China. They live a pretty high life with most of their “incidentals” covered.
I’m pretty sure if something really was an “incidental” (i.e. toothpaste, socks & underwear, a bed to sleep in, etc.) and they absolutely couldn’t afford it, someone would find a way. It’s not like the U of I is forcing the football players out onto the streets to beg for money to buy deodorant with. And I don’t consider things outside of basic necessities “incidental” because most of those other college students who are allowed to get jobs still can’t afford much more than that.
So yeah, getting to play a sport you love AND get a college education AND spend some time in the spotlight AND have no student loan debt after school? Sounds like they’re getting a pretty good deal to me.
I think saying "a lot of college athletes" is a pretty broad statement.
I would guess that there are still a lot of underprivileged athletes that might not go to college at all if it weren’t for athletic scholarships, especially at the D1 level. (Yup, mine was a broad statement too) Maybe it is because I just watched The U’s 30for30 but I don’t think most of the kids Schnellenberger recruited would have gone to college. Yes, that was a long time ago but I have to think that to a certain extent the same holds true now.
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana. Shut up!
by Carfino'sWay on Jun 1, 2011 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand that there are a lot of athletes that come from less than stellar backgrounds.
For some reason though, a lot of them seem to be the same ones that tend to get into trouble when they start playing college ball, and people start paying attention to them and offering them opportunities to break the rules. I hardly think that giving them money is going to turn them into upstanding members of society. They’re already being given the opportunity to turn themselves into something better, and clearly some of them don’t care. I just fail to see how throwing money at the problem is going to solve anything.
But that isn't what either of us where saying.
You said
A lot of college athletes would still go to college even without a sports scholarship.
That is not the same as
there are a lot of athletes that come from less than stellar backgrounds.
Which is what you said in this comment. Your second statement implies that these kids would not probably go to college w/o an athletic scholarship. Which one is it?
People have been paying attention to these guys b/4 they made it to the college level, that is how they made it there. There are and always have been certain concessions made for athletes at any level, little league to pros. Odds are these bad habits didn’t start in college, they might be honed there but that isn’t where the started. Also, I don’t think anyone thinks this will make them better people.
I didn’t say anything about throwing money at the problem is the answer. In fact, I haven’t fully decided what I think is the best plan of action. I understand that the system is flawed and something is going to have to be done about it. Just like with anything in life there are always going to be people that abide by the rules and people that take advantage of everything the can.
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana. Shut up!
You're absolutely right
football players aren’t seven-year-old children working in sweater factories in China (last I checked, seven-year-old sweatshop workers in China don’t get hospitalized with rhabdo). All kidding aside, the rhabdo incident should be a wake up call to some of you that D1 football isn’t all fun and games and some players pay a pretty steep price for playing the game that gathers us all here in these hallowed digital halls. Yes, players love the game (and no, the U of I didn’t build Kinnick so players can show off – see response to a post above), and it’s great that players can leave school without student loan debt because they’ve lived the dream that makes them happy – and gives all of us a reason live long enough to enjoy the next tailgate, but good grief – don’t you think that guys that have given so much to the team shouldn’t have the ability to buy a pizza if they want? Yeah, I know, I worked while in college so I had spending money too. But those of you that don’t that football at this level isn’t a full time job haven’t been around a D1 program.
Besides, if we can get the players a little extra money, the Ferentz boys won’t have to live in Section 8 housing.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 2, 2011 2:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not implying that it isn't a full-time job.
I’m just saying that I think the cost of education is enough of a salary in return for that full-time job. If you give their education a monetary equivalent, there are lots of people that hardly make that much in 4 years AFTER college at a full-time job. Some of them can barely afford a pizza even then because they’ve got student loan debt and bills to pay.
I guess I just don’t see the image where the football players are back-breaking slaves to the trustees of the University while the trustees are wearing gold cufflinks and riding around in limos and eating caviar. Yes, the schools are “making money” off of the players by selling tickets and merchandise, but that money is going back into the school so that those same players (and other students) have facilities to practice and play in, buildlings to learn in, teachers to learn from, etc. It’s not like the head honchos are pocketing that cash and buying themselves Cadillacs with it.
You and I are never going to agree, because we have completely different perspectives on what is happening here. I’ve made my points and I’m done with this debate. I hope you’re also done insulting me.
I feel like this at times, too.
But, if the NCAA and its member institutions can afford to cover the entire cost of an athlete’s college, and maybe just a smidge over to prevent the instant temptations, then that is probably tolerable.
I do not want to see guys like Terrell Pryor (or Tim Tebow, or anyone else) legally making $500k or millions of bucks just to pick a college (that some of these guys, especially in NCAA hoops, might only stay at for a year or two or three).
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
@ HawkAtHeart
This thread is basically finito — but in the event you happen to see this, my sarcasm wasn’t meant as a personal insult and I apologize if it sounded like it. It is never my intention to personally insult anyone — despite a disagreement.
And again, I’m not advocating that college players are paid salaries (and scholarships aren’t salaries either). I do feel strongly that ‘full ride’ scholarships should be just that (again, 2 studies have shown that full athletic scholarships often fall short). And because athletes have EMPLOYMENT RESTRICTIONS PLACED ON THEM they should be given some reasonable consideration in exchange for those restrictions. I assume that as fans, we tend to like and respect most of our players — not just the Hawkeyes in the abstract. And while a very small percentage of players make mistakes, I feel we’re doing them a terrible disservice praising their play on the field, but perhaps don’t fully appreciate their personal hardships.
And finally, I seriously doubt that many regular students risk life changing injury on a daily basis. Check any week’s injury list and you’ll get an idea how much punishment these guys endure. Given all the money that is generated by these players, failure to ensure these guys have at least the basic necessities is reprehensible IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.
That is all.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 3, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
This gets a rec simply for this:
College kids are supposed to be poor.
Yes. THIS. Times infinity. We work ourselves up from the ground level. If your family has the means and inclination to ensure you don’t face the same grind as everyone else then chances are you were going to skate by anyway. I didn’t have enough money to buy my family Christmas presents and, guess what, they didn’t expect them from me because I was supposed to be a student and not making money. It’s amazing how helpful eating nothing but beans and rice can be for hastening the maturation process.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Jun 1, 2011 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions
+.5
You probably didn’t mean it as a blanket statement, but having family money doesn’t cause every student to avoid hard work or skate by. There are many families that are either fortunate and/or worked hard and saved so their kids could have it a little easier. Those kids won’t qualify for any need based aid. Whether that’s right or not it certainly happens and it puts students on wildly different platforms. Some of them are able to take great opportunities like unpaid internships in expensive cities while some of us sack groceries back home (I did too). It’s the same with athletes who face the choice of working on their game and their physique or working a low wage job saving to pay for rent and trips to hy-vee and target. I’m not resentful of a kid just because his parents have money. I’m resentful of him if he abuses it.
I've been in love (truly) with five women, the Spanish Republic and the 4th Infantry Division.
by sailorjerry on Jun 1, 2011 10:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I come from a family of means
but not inclination. Meaning, if I fucked up (which I did) I had to work my way out of it. Coming from wealth doesn’t make someone undeserving of opportunity and success, it’s just when they’re given the endless safety net that some family cast that I become disdainful.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Jun 1, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
"take a look at the cars your team's players are driving and tell me auto dealers in Columbus are acting alone"
Funny, I thought most Iowa players were riding scooters. Bulaga got a DUI on his and Keopel tried eating the front grill of a dodge pickup while on his.
by the_iowa_hawkeye on Jun 1, 2011 12:37 AM CDT reply actions
Less like eating...
More like gymnastics with the flips and all.
Ma'am, you're dealing here with a fully qualified male strumpet. I service the entire Quad Cities area: Moline, Rock Island, Davenport and Bettendorf. Why don't you give it a whirl? What have you got to lose? - Fred Garvin, Male Prostitute
And it Koeppel's was an actual motorcycle.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 1, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Pretty sure that was a scooter he was on
Or the most sissy looking motorcycle ever.
Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.
I may be wrong.
BHGP’s post about it called it a motorcycle, and a guy on a motorcycle pulls up after the accident to help. But, a QC Times article calls it a mo-ped.
I can’t completely tell from the video, but I guess it is a mo-ped:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOuvW8rMoGo
Also, my grammar in the post above is horrid.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 1, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
*Calloway
with the DUI on the scooter.
Only player’s car I’ve seen around campus is Ferentz’s. It didn’t seem any nicer than what he drove in high school.
Choke/Clutch is the fetishization of the small sample size.
"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop." --Dara Ó Briain
And given his dad's salary
I’d say him having a really nice car is pretty easy to explain.
Please note that the internet does not, as of yet, have a sarcasm font.
I would like to underscore on more point.
I think that Delany’s stipend proposal is part of a bigger effort by the NCAA to address some issues that have been festering in the press for quite a while now and I think they’re trying to ‘get ahead’ of some anticipated backlash. Ed O’Bannon’s class action lawsuit has cast the NCAA in a pretty harsh light and has raised quite a few questions regarding the huge revenues that the NCAA collects (especially for TV rights to March Madness) and the fairness of the system for the athletes themselves. For those of you that don’t know about the case, you can get a decent overview here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/sports/ncaabasketball/11colleges.html
and here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/09/sports/ncaabasketball/09ncaa.html
In a nutshell, O’Bannon and others are challenging the NCAA’s right to license their likenesses in perpetuity to companies like EA for video games, etc. As we all know, the NCAA forbids players from making money because of their amateur athletic status, but before players can even play an NCAA game, they’re required to sign away all current and future rights to their likeness. So the NCAA benefits from the amateur unpaid status of the players, they also require players to sign away their rights long after they’ve left amateur sports. This allows the NCAA to license a player’s likeness forever if they so choose — despite the fact that the player is no longer an amateur. This case has the potential to turn the whole business model of the ‘student athlete’ on its head. Stay tuned…
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 9:58 AM CDT reply actions
You mean...
Like Iowa selling #12 jerseys during Stanzi’s senior season?
The part of me that loves chaos would love to see this suit argued to success.
I respect all the opions given here, but I think collegiate sports (mens hoops and football, mostly) has well passed its “amateur” status. I think there will be a reckoning of some kind.
Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.
by Blackheartnopants on Jun 1, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
only the university has the right to generate income from the #12 jerseys. Stanzi gave the #12 meaning, but the university owns the rights to sell his accomplishments while at Iowa. BTW, Blindside author Michael Lewis estimates that based on his research, a quarterback at a marquee D1 school is worth roughly $5 million in revenue generation.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I really, really hate this side of college sports. How every U can sell jersey’s bearing the number of the star of the moment, and the player gets nothing from it. I understand the side of it that’s the scholly and other stuff. But this fine site gets a “cease and desist” the moment a smidge of a toenail goes over the line with a rhyme of a players name. The U owns the rights to the player in perpetuity. Bullshit.
A few things
I think it is kind of a naive to think that people like Newton, Pryor, Bush, etc. are going to satisfied with a stipend. The people that are brazenly cheating now justify it to themselves by saying they’re worth the money. They’re going to keep justifying taking the money because they’re going to think they’re worth more than the other players who are also getting the stipend. I don’t think its going to relieve any problems. These are players receiving exorbinant rewards, not pizza money, not laundry money. Cars, homes, and cash payments. And let’s face it, a lot of the people cheating are the ones who have the ability to make millions in a few years.
I also think its a little short-sighted to think that playing football for a school like OSU or Iowa doesn’t come with its own benefits that transcend just the active four years. Let’s say you have two candidates for a job out of college, similar GPAs, similar personal skills, but one has spent four years with the Iowa football program and has a personal reference from the Iowa coaching staff. Who do you think has a leg-up at that job? There are plenty of intangible benefits that stick with players for life even if they aren’t NFL caliber players. And it’s not jealousy. They deserve their future success for the sacrifices they endured. But it’s not like they’re not coming out of college with some built in advantages for those sacrifices.
College is a struggle for a lot of people. But they get through it knowing that it is worth it because it will lead to a better life later on. The same is true for athletes getting their education paid for in exchange for playing sports. The sacrifices will probably be worth it in the end.
by DisplacedHawkeye82 on Jun 1, 2011 11:04 AM CDT reply actions
Providing a little extra living cash
will not keep the cheats from cheating but it may keep the kid who doesn’t want to cheat from having to cheat in order to have a little walking around town money.
"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants
What Kluginator said
Also, I think “making sure it doesn’t happen again” refers to coaches having to compromise themselves for small amounts of benefits or cash, and not ending in another Tressel-like scandal for the B10. I don’ t think anybody expects this to end corruption or players wanting whips and bling. This just covers the asses of coaches, schools, and the conference while adding a deserved benefit to the players.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Jun 1, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
On Wednesday's "College Football Live" on ESPN,
Rod Gilmore basically said that anyone who gives Terrell Pryor more blame than Jim Tressel, is racist.
You know, because people weren’t ticked off enough about this whole thing.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
That's ridiculous
Anyone who assigns more blame to Terrell Pryor doesn’t understand that what Tressel did was infinitely worse. There are a few racists who will reflexively shift the blame to Pryor, but most will be people who are pissed that their beloved Sweatervest set himself on fire for short term gain.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Jun 1, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Pryor seems pretty bad to me, too.
But Tressel was dirty before Pryor.
Pryor deserves plenty of blame, but more than half belongs to Tressel.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 1, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Pryor appears to be the type of person
who was going to be a potential walking violation no matter what school he was at.
Tressel is far worse, as he not only has a history of turning a blind eye to things that he knows are against the rules, but has facilitated them.
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Jun 1, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
This
Only an idiot would drive a new car to a team meeting amidst the scandal that was currently taking place.
I see him as less an idiot & more of an ass
He thinks he’s above the rules & wants to flaunt it. Of course, that doesn’t preclude him from also being an idiot.
The University of Iowa: the best 6 years of my life. My parents are very proud.
by HawkeyeGirleye on Jun 2, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Given his public speaking ability
(the “kills you, kills me…” comments), I’m saying idiot is a probability.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Just wondering
What are the chances Tressel takes a dump on fOSU if the U starts assigning all blame on him? I would love to see all this mushroom into a huge blame game exposing all indiscretions.
At this point Tressel has nothing to lose (other than what’s left of his image). Gee and Smith are going to have to walk a fine line.
It's so sad how a family can be torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs.
by FiveSecondRuleChef on Jun 2, 2011 5:12 AM CDT reply actions
I think that is one are where Tressel does stay classy.
I think he knows his career is over (at least at the highest level). And right now, he seems beloved by 50% or 75% of Ohio. He won’t piss on all of that just to make himself look a little less dirty. At this point, the best he can do is work his way back through the NFL, or hope that some tiny college (like his alma mater, Baldwin-Wallace) takes a flyer on him in a year or two.
The real question is, why are so many people so shocked? Between Tressel’s background at Youngstown State and the bit-by-bit infractions OSU has had over the last decade, I was 98% sure OSU (and Tressel) was pretty dirty.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 2, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions



















