2011 NFL Draft: So You've Drafted Adrian Clayborn
Congratulations, Tampa Bay fans! You're made the wonderful decision to draft Adrian Clayborn! Like any responsible prospective selector, you're no doubt filled with questions about your new draft pick. We here at Black Heart Gold Pants will try our best to answer any questions you might have.
Is this Adrian Clayborn guy any good? Funny you should ask that around these parts. Ultimately, there isn't that much disagreement about whether or not he's any good (he is), but rather how good he is (or can be). If you'd asked us this question a year ago, the answer would have been an unqualified -- and unanimous -- "hell yes, he's really damn good." That's when he was coming off a breakout junior season: 70 tackles, 20 TFL, 11.5 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, Orange Bowl MVP, 1st-team All-Big Ten, and a smattering of second-tier All-America honors. He was also at his best in Iowa's biggest games; he basically single-handedly swung the Penn State game in Iowa's favor with this play and he wreaked so much havoc on Georgia Tech's vaunted flexbone attack in the Orange Bowl that they were reduced to just running away from him in the second half to get any semblance of an offense going. He was even sublime in a losing effort, notching 12 tackles, 3 TFL, and a sack against Ohio State in a 27-24 OT loss in the de facto Big Ten Championship Game.
A year ago the world was his oyster and Iowa fans were thinking big things -- like Ndamukong Suh-level big things -- for Clayborn in 2010. And then the 2010 season happened and Clayborn ended his Iowa career with neither a bang nor a fizzle but a prolonged "meh." His numbers were down across the board -- 52 tackles, 7 TFL, 3.5 sacks -- and though he earned 1st-team All-Big Ten honors and even more All-America love than he did the year prior, it was tough to shake the thought that he was earning those plaudits more on name value than on the basis of on-field accomplishments. There was no shortage of potential theories for Clayborn's diminished impact in 2011 -- increased attention from offenses, more chipping from fullbacks and tight ends, injury (he was the victim of a particularly nasty-looking chop block in the Wisconsin game, although neither Clayborn nor any Iowa source ever acknowledged that as the source of any damage to Clayborn), strategic changes to cover up for the diminished capability of the linebackers behind him (i.e., more responsibility in edge containment and bottling up the running game), lack of effort, coasting on past accomplishments -- and, as is so often the case, the true answer is probably a mixture of all of the above.
Regardless, he was nowhere near as dominant in 2010 as he was in 2009; if the enduring image of his 2009 campaign was the sensational punt block-and-return against Penn State, the enduring image of his 2010 campaign might sadly have been the shot of him on the sideline, sucking wind, near the end of the Northwestern game. Ultimately, that's an unfair characterization of Clayborn -- while it didn't reach the heights Iowa fans dreamed of, he didn't really have a bad season (nor was he the only Iowa lineman to put to disappointing numbers; Iowa returned all four defensive linemen in 2010 and only one -- Karl Klug -- put up better numbers in 2010 than 2009) and he's still a very talented NFL prospect at defensive end.
Wasn't this guy a potential top 5-10 pick a year ago? What's he doing loitering in the 20s? Well, see above for the long version; the Reader's Digest version is that his stock was sky-high a year ago after an incredibly dominant performance in the Orange Bowl and it tumbled a bit in the face of worse-than-expected numbers in his senior season. Honestly, his stock was probably a bit overinflated at that point, but the multi-million dollar question remains: who's the real Adrian Clayborn, the guy who was, quite literally, a game-changer in 2009 or the guy who was solid but not as spectacular in 2010? Good question! If we had a good answer, we'd probably be making bank as an NFL talent evaluator and not slaving away in the blogmines. That's a roundabout way of saying... we have no idea. But production (or rather, his diminished production in 2010) is the reason his draft stock went a-tumbling a bit this year. Well, that and a certain pesky arm thing...
Wait, what about this arm thing? Funny story -- seriously, you're never going to believe this -- but Clayborn's kinda sorta been ripping shit up in college with one good arm.
Holy Richard Kimble, one arm? That's insane! Yeah, it really kinda is, but before you go scratching him off your big board because, hell's bells, there's just no way you're drafting a one-armed defensive end, it's not really as bad as it sounds (promise!). He was born with Erb's palsy, a disorder which caused nerve damage in his right arm; even now he's unable to fully extend that arm and he has a more limited wingspan than many other elite defensive end prospects. While that's certainly a potential red flag, it didn't seem to slow him down too much in the Big Ten and there are some mammoth (and very skilled) offensive linemen in that league. Some coaches even see the arm issue as potential (slight) positive:
Others, like one coach strongly interested in him, actually see a plus in what he's overcome. "It shows what kind of guy he is, to have overcome that,'' the coach told me. "I love him. I love everything about him.''
So is that his punching arm? Oh, so you heard about that, huh?
Yeah. What about these "character issues"? Look, we don't condone violence, but this was a story that was blown slightly out of proportion. The initial charge was assault causing bodily injury, but he later pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct, and that should say something about the severity of the actual incident. There's also the issue that during the incident the victim called Clayborn a word that starts with "n" and rhymes with "digger;" again, we don't condone violence, but we can probably all agree that it's really not a great idea to use that word in a heated situation with a 6'4", 285 lb. African-American gentleman. Beyond L' Affaire du Cabbie, Clayborn's record in Iowa City was pretty much spotless; he didn't even pick up one of the ubiquitous PAULA (possession of alcohol under the legal age) or OWI tickets that are a rite of passage for most Iowa players. (Although he did pick up a crazed stalkerlady during his time at Iowa; apparently chicks dig the dreads.)
What's Clayborn's strength? Clayborn is versatile and good at most of the things you typically expect of defensive linemen: contain the edge, shut down the running game, rush the passer, etc. It's the latter skill that's probably his strongest attribute. And let's be honest: no one's spending first-round draft picks on defensive ends who are best at sealing off the edge and slowing down running backs. The biggest knock on his pass-rushing ability is that he doesn't have the biggest repertoire of moves; apart from an occasional swim move, he was a pretty big fan of the bull rush and used it extensively. The thing is, even if Clayborn's moves came up wanting in the originality department, the truth is they worked more often than not (in 2008-9, at least), even against the best competition. Clayborn got the better of Wisconsin OT Gabe Carimi (likely a fellow 1st-round pick this year) in 2009 and was excellent against Ohio State's very good offensive line. On the other hand, they didn't appear quite so effective in 2010, so we're back to the "who's the real Adrian Clayborn?" question -- and we still don't have a good answer to that question.
It's impossible to offer unqualified praise for Clayborn's motor after the 2010 season featured way too many shots of him kneeling on the sideline in the fourth quarter, but in general Clayborn had a pretty ferocious work ethic on the field. Hell, even in the game that's become emblematic of his late-season swoon (the Northwestern debacle), at least one expert (former player personnel executive Gil Brandt) found a play near the end that showed off Clayborn's hustle:
"I just happened to be looking at the (2010) Northwestern game," said Brandt, who spent three decades as the vice president of player personnel with the Dallas Cowboys. "I thought at the end of the game, when the game was on the line, he came from the right side, the quarterback’s backside, and he was really hustling to make a play. I think that’s a good mark when you see a guy late in the year, who’s gotten a lot of accolades — rightfully so — and he’s working hard to be a better player.
"You classify that as a hustle play or a competitive play. That play meant a lot to me as far as evaluating."
Clayborn didn’t get to Northwestern’s Dan Persa on that play. He was a split-second late. Persa threw a touchdown pass that lifted the Wildcats to a 21-17 victory last November.
But that’s not the point to Brandt. What he saw was Clayborn — whose hustle as a senior was questioned in recent months in the NFL draft blogosphere — playing with max effort on the 82nd snap of the season’s 10th game.
There's no doubt that Clayborn is a fairly polarizing figure, both among draftniks and even Iowa fans. Rightly or wrongly, many Iowa fans feel burned by a 2010 season that fell far short of expectations; as the leader of the defense and the guy who should have been the standout player, Clayborn has felt the brunt of that disappointment. Maybe that's fair, maybe it isn't. Despite the diminished numbers, his 2010 efforts have also been praised by many NFL scouts and NFL and college coaches. Who's right, who's wrong? Both? Neither? Maybe Clayborn's senior season is simply a big, dreadlocked Rorschach test: you see what you want to see.
Will Clayborn be awesome? Again, we honestly have no idea. It seems like it depends quite a bit on which team drafts him, what defensive system they're running, and how patient they're able to be with him. There's been a little chatter that he might be able to play as an OLB/rush end in a 3-4 defense, but that doesn't seem like the greatest idea. Iowa ran the (very very very) occasional zone blitz with Clayborn, but dropping into coverage is one thing -- covering a tight end is an entirely different kettle of fish and there's no indication that Clayborn would be particularly good at it. He has good speed, but he doesn't have ZOMG THAT'S AMAZING speed. Ultimately, it seems like he's probably best-suited to playing in the same sort of defensive scheme he played in at Iowa: a base 4-3 defense that requires him to do some run containment, but mostly allows him to rush the passer -- that's what he's best at.
On the right team, with the right players and coaches around him, there's every reason to think that Clayborn could thrive and become a very productive NFL player. The current mock drafts have him going to Tampa Bay at #20 (AP), New Orleans at #24 or Atlanta at #27 (CNNSI), New Orleans at #24 or Atlanta at #27 (ESPN), Atlanta at #27 (Sporting News), New Orleans at #24 or Cleveland at #37 (Mocking The Draft), Tampa Bay at #20 or New Orleans at #24 (Nat'l Football Post). Regardless of where he lands, though, we're really rooting for Clayborn to make it in the pros. His senior year wasn't the campaign anyone was hoping for -- either for him or the Iowa team -- but he produced a lot of indelible memories in his Iowa career (the images of him tossing a hapless Penn State blocker ten yards before blocking a punt, scooping it up and returning it for a touchdown or of him slamming Georgia Tech's Josh Nesbitt into the ground repeatedly will linger on in our brainmeats for a very long time to come) and by most accounts he seemed like a genuinely good guy while he was at Iowa: quiet and thoughtful, but also funny at times. He was a very likable guy who's worked his ass off to overcome certain obstacles in his life (his arm, a rough childhood); we certainly hope he makes it at the next level.
Anything else we should know? He has a pretty badass dog named Ace, who occasionally helped out with Adrian's media commitments.
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Can't forget Ace.
Interestingly, this piece left a different taste in my mouth about Clayborn’s season than I thought before. Most notably how a change in scheme to break in DiBona and Morris may have affected his numbers; that was something I never thought of. Also, he seems to be a very smart player. The pick-6 against Mizzou was a smart play by him. Instead of rushing the QB (who would have likely thrown it away), he trusted the defense behind him, contained the scramble, and the rest is history.
I kind of wonder if he is in shape?
He did get a draft invite and he is going. That seems a vote of confidence in a lot of ways.
As a caveat, how many bench reps did he get off at Iowa Pro Day, 17? After not doing the bench at the Combine? I think he would need to tone and work on upper body strength quite a bit at the next level. I’ve read Browns at 37, which I think is a pretty harsh number. As a fan, I hope he can go first round still.
I listed off the results of a slew of mock drafts in the post.
Mocking The Draft had him going to CLE at #37 and that was by far the lowest of all the mocks, as well as the only one to place him outside R1. Most everyone else had him going in the 20-27 range to either TB, NO, or ATL. Granted, part of that might be the hivemind approach that seems to bubble up with mocks, but I still think he has a very good shot of going in R1.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
The hivemind could very well be wrong.
In a very strong year for DEs, I think it’s very possible teams pass on the guy with more question marks for a guy with fewer. When you’re talking about investing $20M in a guy, you get scared about any flags that come up.
Related note: If he slips out of the first round that would really suck to watch that happen live in primetime.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 26, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I so agree with your last sentence
He’s saying all the right things about not caring when/where he goes but that would really be awful.
The University of Iowa: the best 6 years of my life. My parents are very proud.
by HawkeyeGirleye on Apr 26, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe ESPN ran an article saying 27 (?) athletes would be at RCMH on Thursday.
That’s pretty insane considering I’m having a hard time remembering a time when there were more than 5 or 6. I do think Clayborn will be sitting for a while, but I really cannot imagine him slipping out of the first round.
With Gholston a complete bust in NY, I’m hoping to see Clayborn as a Jet.
by The Mexican't on Apr 26, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's 25?
At any rate, it’s the most ever (last year was the previous high at 14or 15) & I’m dying to know if the NFL just asked more players than usual as a little FU to the players union or if more players just happened to say ‘yes’ after the union (that I guess really isn’t a union at the moment) asked the draftees to stay home this year.
The University of Iowa: the best 6 years of my life. My parents are very proud.
by HawkeyeGirleye on Apr 26, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Watching Matt Leinert
fall was priceless. The look on his face as each pick went by and it wasn’t him was funny as hell.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
Watching Aaron Rodgers fall was a blessing in disguise.
I don’t think he’s as good of a player if he is picked in the top 10.
I do not understand this statement.
Do you mean because he wouldn’t have been on as good of a team? Or do you really think that what number a guy is drafted at makes an impact on his tallent going forward? Did his arm get stronger with each guy that was drafted in front of him?
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Apr 27, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
The chip on his shoulder grew.
Also, he has higher expectations to perform sooner if he’s drafted in top 10 or to most other teams. I think it’s kinda the same as Tom Brady when he fell to 199(?). Except everyone got to watch Aaron Rodgers slide down the draft.
I just disagree with this entirely.
It’s incorrect dimestore psychology. He’s a great player, would have been great at #1 overall or #199 as long as he’s given the chance. The quality of the team he joins matters, draft position does not. Same as star rating, or GPA, or anything like that. Matters a ton when you’re in the midst of it, matters none when it’s time to actually perform.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Brady got well over a year
with no pressure or expectations to learn his craft at the NFL level. Even when thrown into the fire, there were still negligible expectations. To say that didn’t have an effect on his development is asinine. Brady himself even admits he would not have turned out if he had gone top 10.
"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe
by Brock8144 on Apr 27, 2011 6:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Brady "admits" he would not have turned out the same?
#humblebrag of the highest order. And complete and total bullshit.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course where they play affects how well they are able to perform,
but the psychological makeup of Brady and Rodgers allowed their drop down the draft board to fuel them. Hell, Tom Brady still cries when he recounts his draft day.
Maybe we’re arguing different things now, but I think coming in and having a year or so to learn the ropes before playing would help more than hurt many drafted QBs (Bradford and Manning being notable exceptions). At the very least, a fanbase/organization can’t have high expectations for a newly drafted QB playing his first season.
That "chip on the shoulder" thing is a personal stance by each individual
Brady would find that drive and say there were haters if he was picked in the first round. Jordan still finds those haters. LeBron manufactured them as well. So did Elway, Manning, whoever. Somebody that has that much drive and is wired to find haters and prove them wrong will do so regardless of draft position.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that if you are EXPECTED...
to go in the top 20, and then you fall past it, that can become a big-time motivator. While the guy may be mentally ill, I think it motivated Randy Moss for awhile (to stick it to the 10 or so teams he thought should have drafted him).
I think some of this is true for Rogers. There are plenty of teams that very much could have taken him, and didn’t. San Fran is a good example (Alex Smith sucks, Rogers was from played college ball in Berkeley). I feel like Rogers goes out there to show people that he should have been taken higher, every time he steps on the field.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2005/draft.htm
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 27, 2011 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Meh.
If he went first to San Fran he’d claim there were haters saying he wasn’t good enough to be the #1 overall pick, that he was “just a product of Tedford’s system”. He’d be just as motivated to prove people wrong as that’s apparently his personality. That was what I was trying to note by bringing up Jordan, Lebron, Elway, Manning, etc.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Just from what I've seen,
Rodgers seems like a guy who may be fueled by an “insult.” I don’t think he’s quite in Jordan/Manning’s class of competitiveness. Elway knew he had to become a star, or he would always have been known as a prima donna for dissing Baltimore.
I think the jury is still out on what fuels LeBron, but it seems like he makes up his own reality about every 6 months anyway, so?
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 27, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm saying Rodgers would find any other insult to motivate him
I don’t know how else to get that point across.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Finally,
I understand what you’re saying. That was very clear (and a repeated sentiment) by you. Those who are highly motivated will always find reasons to be motivated.
Yay! Beers all around!
In fact, give me a shot glass too and let’s make it a round of b**l*rm*k*rs for your alma mater.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Having seen him in Iowa City in the past month or so
I can tell you that he is in shape. Looks way more beastly than he did this last season.
by Bryce Carlson on Apr 26, 2011 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
AC
did a meet and greet at my wife’s workplace three weeks ago (they’re packed with high rolling Hawk boosters). He said a couple of things that are germaine to this discussion. A kid playing hooky from school asked him if he had been hurt this season and he denied it. Second, he did look like he was in great shape and mentioned that he had trained in Arizona at a place called Performance Enhancement Professionals after the first of the year. Apparently, he felt that it would help him more to train for the combine/pro day in an outside facility. He didn’t say why, but he was proud that his ‘gut’ as he called it was gone. He said that this facility in Arizona really emphasized nutrition. Anyway, to second what Bryce said — AC looked better than I’ve ever seen him.
I’d also like to say that he came across as a genuinely nice person. Someone asked him what he wanted to do after his career in the NFL is over. AC said that he hoped to return to St. Louis and get involved in improving the lives of the kids from his old neighborhood. He stayed until all the fans had an opportunity to talk / take a pic / get an autograph, etc. I had the chance to wish him luck in the NFL — I wish I had thought to tell him how much fun it was to watch him demolish quarterbacks the past few years.
What's your deal?
by PCarroll_u_sm(j)irk on Apr 26, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I secretly want him to be drafted by the Bucs
just so I can buy one one of those orange-creamsicle jersey
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey
by White Lightning on Apr 26, 2011 12:32 PM CDT reply actions
Well,
if I were an NFL scout-drafter guy, I couldn’t say that I wasn’t thinking about not drafting him. But I’m not, so I really wasn’t thinking about drafting or not drafting him. I do, however, need a nap.
They should have sent a poet.
by Bucketochicken on Apr 26, 2011 12:38 PM CDT reply actions
I don't understand the out of shape argument
I don’t know that he was any more tired at any point in the season than any of the other starting D-lineman. Despite the camera focusing solely on Clayborn, he and Ballard often rotated out at the same time.
My big question here though, is how does a high profile athlete make it through camp and weekly practices and not be in shape? Why would the coaching let that happen and why would they play a guy who is not even putting forth the basic level of effort required to be on a D1 field.
I just don’t see how this could have been much of a problem last season.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Piggy-backing on PC's sentiments:
It’s all about nutrition as far as his gut is concerned. When you’re in college, you can have a beer, microwave a burrito, and basically eat anything with as much (or little) regard to your nutrition as you want. At these facilities, you’re with them breakfast to dinner and they’re controlling everything you eat, train, breath, etc.
Nutrition is no doubt an important part and I will concede that that might be a big difference
I just have a hard time believing that Adrian was substantially less fit his senior year than he was his junior year and the coaching staff was seemingly okay with that.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
That's fair.
I think he went to be underrated and putting up big numbers because he didn’t get the hype to properly/overrated and putting up normal-ish stats with added emphasis on stopping him by opposing teams.
Hopefully you aren't offended by this
but I am having a hell of a time fully understanding this comment. I think I know what you are getting at though and I would agree.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Not offended at all,
I understand that it could be thoroughly confusing to people who aren’t me.
Estimated value ‘09 < Actual value ’09 (people don’t prepare for him, great stats)
Actual value ’10 > Actual value ’09 (slight offseason improvement)
BUT
Estimated value ’10 > Actual value ’10 (people prepare for him, “meh” stats)
Maybe this helps… I could explain it much better face to face, but alas, we are on the internet.
No this was perfect
You should work inequalities into all of your posts.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
I know you are a secret Purdue fan
because you speak in cypher
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
Goddamn snaketalkers.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
ouya eakspea igpea atinlea?
my mother
god rest her soul
was fluent in it
and would routinely break into the pig latin translation
of the gettysburgh address,
here is this demur old lady in white glove
ourfae orescea andea evensea earyeas ago
Long Live the Pellican Whore - like FOREVER
Wow.
Awesome, dude.
Going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.... Alright, I'll stop for now.
by EnergizerHawk on Apr 29, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not like he was just completely out of shape
I don’t think it should be surprising that a 285 pound man was tired after ~10 straight no-huddle plays.
"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe
I will always believe that the Wiscy fullback cheapshot hurt hik mkore than he led on this season.
I know he came back in the game later, but so did Tyler Nielsen with a broken fucking neck.
You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!
by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Apr 26, 2011 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
That picture of him falling is pretty much exactly what happened to me when I hurt my knee.
But my foot was in a hole. I fell back on it with all my weight and ruptured my patellar tendon (and I played football for years, in college and semi-professionally, and never suffered a major injury to my knees). Fucking sucked, so bad.
"They're not people, James Ingram. They're Jimmy Buffett fans."
by SomeJerkPoster on Apr 26, 2011 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
AC said that he'd been eating everything in sight this last season, and claimed himself to be out of shape.
I’m still pissed at the assholes who harassed him on facebook about it. Nice fandom, dicks.
And it makes sense that they’d still put him on the field given that his backup was, what, Lebron Daniel (?) who is no slouch, but he isn’t a returning All-Big Ten player either.
Also, from Junior to Senior year I think AC was trying to bulk up, and I think the self-reported bad eating might have been a function of that gone awry. If you get too big and are working out all the time, sometimes your body feels hungry constantly. This, I think, was a bigger failure for Doyle than Rhabdo (though you can’t be with a college kid all the time to knock the hotdogs out of his hands- – to be clear, I don’t think it’s Doyle’s fault, it was just a failure to get AC bigger in a way that he could handle, but mostly it’s on Clayborn, and I think he’s accepted that responsibility with the quotes I’ve heard of from him).
As I’ve said all along, I think the biggest thing was that we missed Spievey and Edds/Angerer. AC had a lot more to do/cover/think about without those NFLers behind him, and Prater had to cheat into the middle more, so the dinks and dunks were much more effective (or so it seemed) which leads to longer drives, more plays, more fatigue, etc.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Apr 27, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
The only thing I will say here
is that at other positions on the field the coaches were not at all afraid to start a less capable backup when they felt that the starter needed a wake up call.
It surely couldn’t be Doyle’s fault because he is the reigning ACOY.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
I remember when they did a spotlight piece on Clayborn on Ferentz's weekly TV show.
They definitely had footage of his mom cooking for him and handing him a sizable plate of food (she moved in with him sometime in the last couple years, I believe).
And, I can’t remember if it was AC or somebody else that said that part of the reason his mom moved in with him was to keep him in line. I would guess that would have led him to reduce any possible drinking or smoking this year, and I would have thought that would have led to him being in better shape this past year?
And yes, no Spievey/Edds/Angerer definitely hurt the defense, and probably AC’s performance.
Also, our offense sputtering late in the year made AC and the defense play more downs, which seemed to tire him out.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 27, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
My theory
Is that he couldn’t keep himself from eating a little too much of Mom’s cooking.
My porn name is HogOfHawkness
by HeartOfHawkness on Apr 29, 2011 3:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Anybody else read Easterbrook?
He gets oversimplistic and cutesy, but I love his take on things. His Mock Draft with discussions about the NFL Labor Dispute just came out.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
He can treat some issues as a little too black and white
But I like some of his pet issues, like his constant railing against kicking field goals when down big late in games.
Because it makes so much sense to go for 3 when down 21 in the 4th quarter.
Depending on how much time is left in the 4th quarter,
that can still be an OK strategy. It seems like each year brings an increasing amount of games where a team (and sometimes, their opponent) went crazy with return TDs and long drives.
On the other hand, I recall watching Iowa absolutely kick Michigan State’s ass at Kinnick (in 2002?) Bobby Williams keeps electing to punt while down by 20 or 30 points. He deserved to get fired (as he did later that year or the next).
Easterbrook makes the (maybe valid) point about how NFL and big-time college coaches are wanting to protect their own image by avoiding the vicious blowouts by kicking there way to within 20 or 15 points. Less criticism can mean a longer career in those positions.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 26, 2011 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions
It's ok
His whole section on DeMaurice Smith is crap and typical of one of Easterbrook’s pet theories: assume a proposition to be true, then shoe-horn all available facts in to support and “prove” this assumption. He is literally begging the question (note: both the use of “Iterally” and “begging the question” are in their correct forms here). Smith is a litigator, therefore he wanted there to be conflict. Why? Because he’s a litigator! Pure hackery.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I agree, he's oversimplistic
I just always find that he comes up with interesting angles and viewpoints. And I adore the stance in his book: Pessimists get all the press in future prognostications, but the optimists are almost always correct.
Pretty rare and effective use of “begging the question” there. Well played.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
His legal analysis is incredibly flawed
and almost always is, not just in this case. Which is really surprising because (1) Easterbrook is a very smart guy and (2) his brother is the freaking chief-judge of the Federal 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. There is no reason for Easterbrook to get so many basic legal questions wrong like he does.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
You're a lawyer, yes?
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes
but even if I weren’t, it would still be easy to find the flaws in his analysis. I’m not faulting him for not getting highly technical legal questions wrong, it’s not even understanding the very basics of what he’s discussing.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I just had a couple thoughts on that
1) Anybody who is in a field of expertise will usually find opinions on his field from outsiders to be tedious, simplistic, misplaced, and sometimes insulting. And you’re probably not wrong in that.
2) That said, as a fellow outsider, I also have a problem with the amount of litigation in our society and think he’s absolutely correct in his theory that lawyers want to create legal situations and prolong them for their benefit. Probalby ego-wise more than money-wise as he likes, but still.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Everyone thinks society is too litigious
until they’re harmed, then they’re the first to rush to a lawyer and file suit.
But in this specific case, Easterbrook is so off-base as to render his analysis pointless. In regards to Brady vs. NFL, he fixates on two aspects of the case, and ignores all others, so as to “prove” his point – a point that is rather nebulous other than litigation = bad! First, he tries to potray the “named” players – Manning, Brady – as unrepresentative of the class as a whole. And he’d have a point if they were the only named players. But they aren’t, they are simply two high-profile players who agreed to put their name to the suit to give it exposure and enhanced credibility. Easterbrook conveniently ignores that the “named” players include rank-and-file players like Mike Vrabel, Ben Leber and Logan Mankins as well as Vonn Miller, a prospective player. Why? I’m not sure, but presumably because it undermines his assertion that this in only being pursued by the high-value players as a way of destroying the NFL and upping their worth.
Second, Easterbrook’s assertion that Smith is taking an aggressive stance because (1) he is a “litigator” and that’s what litigators do, (2) it will get him more money and (3) enhance his profile is absurd. To be sure, a lot of lawyers tend to drag out cases because it allows them to pad their billable hours and because, “hey, we’re not getting paid to settle this thing”, but that is noticably absent here because Smith is not outside counsel, he is paid either way and it is not dependent on how long this case goes on and it probably is in Smith’s personal interest for it to be resolved so he can focus on other aspects of his job. Second, Smith has already been counsel to the Deputy-US Attorney General as well as a partner in two of the largest law firms in the country/world. And as head of the NFLPA, his profile is pretty well known and established. There is no reason, contrary to Easterbrook’s implication, to think that Smith is pursuing this course of actions as a way to leverage his way to a better position.
And all of that ignores the pink elephant in the room that it was the owners themselves who opted out of the CBA after the 2009 season and set the current set of events in motion. When negotiations didn’t work, there was almost no other course of action that the players could pursue. All of which Easterbrook knows – or at least should know, he’s no dummy – but he chooses to ignore/overlook because it doesn’t fit into his preferred narrative.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
No problems at all with the bulk of your post. You appear to be correct there
Just a problem with this:
Everyone thinks society is too litigious
until they’re harmed, then they’re the first to rush to a lawyer and file suit.
I’d say somewhere around 10% of the population would be in a rush to find a lawyer, the vast majority of people soldier on and hold grudges, never to involve the legal system in their disputes. You’re having a fallacy of proximity there, as somebody who sees legal cases all day.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually, I'm not
I don’t do litigation work so I rarely ever see actual lawsuits or cases. But I think my basic point holds true, most people think that everyone else’s suits are frivolous, but their own must have merit. It’s similar to how overwhelming majorities of the population have a very negative view of Congress, yet still think that “they’re all a bunch of crooks except my guy, who is different.” Fault always resides with some nebulous, ill-defined “other people”, it rarely seems to come back home.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I have to agree in my limited experience
I know guys that will bitch and moan about how lawyers are ruining the country and then go out and get a lawyer to absolutely crucify their wives in a divorce settlement.
Der Hoelle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen
I do hate that aspect of his writing
The cramming of facts to fit a theory of his, whether or not they are relevant/true, then standing back and saying, “See, its true!”.
Especially when said facts would go against/disprove another idea of his, sometimes in the same article, then conveniently ignoring them at that time.
However, I do enjoy some his ideas and his willingness to at least point out some of the dumber bits of conventional wisdom in football.
sounds like the general consensus is to read him with an open mind and a pound of salt
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
That's the same way you should read everything, though.
Aside from BHGP, of course. You should take everything we say as the gospel truth.
Except the LOHL-ist propaganda bullshit spewed by Vint and his supporters, that is. All that stuff is a pack of lies and nonsense.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
I think we all try to
Sometimes we still get messianic following our favorites, though. Michael Pollan: Call me! I sent you my number like, a dozen times now.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Michael Pollan is clearly the real deal and knows all...about life andsuch.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Propaganda?!
It IS LOHL bitch!
"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe
by Brock8144 on Apr 27, 2011 6:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He's a great read
for the contrarian, against-the-grain viewpoint. And he is very good at pointing out the groupthink that permeates the NFL coaching ranks, and illuminating its blindspots. But he, like a lot of people are, is too in love with his own briliant “insights” that he tends to use them as a catch-all and assumes that no one can have a motivation/impulse other than what he ascribes them to have.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
My ears are burning
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 27, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
this is very true
“You should go for it on 4th & 2 every time because the average NFL play is 4 yards!!!”
“Commentators and everyone always call end-arounds reverses and they’re clearly not!!!” (but they are)
I once, calmly, logically, tried to explain the latter to him, and of course got no reply. And he’s still harped on that.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I think this sums it up nicely
You SHOULD go for it on 4th and 2 MORE than teams do. (but not every time)
Commentators DO call end arounds reverses A LOT. (but not always)
But it’s a problem of degrees.
He harps on these same points OVER and OVER – I don’t think he’s had much new to say in many years now. It’s not that he’s wrong – he’s just not as right as he thinks he is, and he doesn’t discuss anything other than his contrarian pet issues.
Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa
by Not Marv Cook on Apr 28, 2011 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
ends arounds are typically reverses and the commentators have it right
he just doesn’t understand why they’re called reverses
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Doesn't a reverse require the offense to start moving in one direction, before reversing?
While an end-around is simply a hand-off to a receiver who runs around the end? It seems pretty simple to keep them separate.
by The Mexican't on Apr 29, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, yes, that's an end-around. But that's not what Easterbrook refers to.
What’s the purpose of a reverse or end-around? Mis-direction for the defense.
Thus, even if the QB goes straight back with the ball and the ball doesn’t “reverse,” when the blockers mostly move one way and the backfield moves in that same direction, then the end comes back the other way, that’s a reverse, regardless of what the ball does.
I’d guess the wing-T is the closest thing to a straight end-around. While I don’t track plays, I’d guess that the vast majority of what Easterbrook insists are end-arounds involve some sort of offensive misdirection.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
So yeah, you'd think it would be easy to know what was what.
But that’s sorta the problem with Easterbrook. He gets an idea he thinks is right and it’s some sort of briliant insight that no one else gets, and then harps on it like everyone else is an idiot cuz they don’t see it.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Easterbrook also fails to mention
that the owners wanted to skim $1 billion off the pool used to determine the salary cap and when the players, rather than just agreeing, said “show us the books”, the owners said “no”.
"If you need a rah-rah speech at halftime, you’re playing the wrong sport." - Pat Angerer
Fuck Wisconsin's no name fullback
that is all
by justsomehawkeyefan on Apr 26, 2011 3:34 PM CDT reply actions
ESPN is missing a goldmine hyping Clayborn
C’mon, a one armed player getting drafted in the (potentially) 1st round? PR GOLD, BABY
/Robles’d
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
He'd weigh 310 with a good arm.
"They're not people, James Ingram. They're Jimmy Buffett fans."
by SomeJerkPoster on Apr 26, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
word is Stephen Hawking beat him 2 out of 3 arm wrestling
"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants
Watching AC plant Forcier again was fantastic.
After Tater scrapes himself up off the field, Clayborn gives him this look like “What the hell do you think you’re doing out here? This game is for grown men.”
He gave the same look to the GTech punter after almost blocking one.
For a guy who only saw the field a (very) few times that year, he must’ve went to the sidelines and told “CPJ” not to send him back out there, please.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Apr 27, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
As the site's resident Bucs fan*
I am absolutely stoked that they picked up Clayborn. While the Bucs’ D took a big hit a few years ago when Kiffin the Greater left to make Kiffin the Lesser respectable and all the older members like Derrick Brooks decided to retire, they’re back to being a Top 10 D completely under the radar. Their one major weakness is their run D, and Clayborn will do nothing but compliment that.
Smart move by the Bucs; now I’ll be really pissed off if there’s no football this coming year.
*Since people will ask, I was born in the greater Tampa area and lived there for a bit before we moved up to CR.
YEAH BUDDAY!
by With Ferentz Like These... on Apr 28, 2011 11:34 PM CDT reply actions
I enjoyed my visit to Tampa...
the year Iowa beat Florida in the Outback.
If I could afford to, I’d consider living there.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 28, 2011 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions
One thing I distinctly remember from Tampa during the Outback bowl
It’s VERY affordable if you want it to be. Half the town is trailer parks, and not always shitty ones.
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 29, 2011 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
After a lifetime in Iowa,
and the recent events in Alabama-Mississippi-Tennessee, I don’t see myself living in a trailer, even a nice double-wide one. Then again, the house I rented before the one I’m in now did not have a much larger main floor than a good double-wide. Still, it had a basement.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 29, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I live in Orlando and it had been 10 years since I had been to Tampa until I went this spring.
There are some cool areas and some crappy areas, but I was more impressed with the area this time.
by HawkeyeRecon on Apr 29, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Clayborn's highlight reel is like 73.45 times better than Ballard's.
(sound off, soI won’t comment onmusic)
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
Excellent work. Needs dreads
I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.
by therealCatnuts on Apr 29, 2011 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Caution
When AC was drafted Suzi Colbert interviewed him (only player interview I noticed) and tWWL announcers indicated they would be watching this guy closely. It all revolves around his Erb’s Palsy and how he overcame so much.
I have a really bad feeling that tWWL is angling to turn AC into the next Anthony Robles. I don’t know if I could stomach that.
"Sometimes the truth gets in the way of a good story" - KF
by The Bacon Explosion on Apr 29, 2011 9:47 AM CDT reply actions
ROBLES ROBLES ROBLES
"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable
by ClaybornSmash on Apr 29, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
If he's successful
I could stomach it. It’s always nice to have some good press for the school, even if it’s indirect
It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?
by chitownhawkeye on Apr 29, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't know Lester Erb was shaky?
But seriously, I didn’t even know AC had that until you just mentioned it. The wikipedia says that other notable people that had it were: Joseph Stalin, Kaiser Wilhelm II, and Martin Sheen.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 29, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Any new projections for the Americanzi?
After the flurry of QB’s early, has anyone seen updates on our beloved patriot?
"And after it was all over, he took us in the house and served us pancakes... pancakes." - Charlie Murphy
by Podolak Pimpin' on Apr 29, 2011 12:16 PM CDT reply actions
None of the few 2nd round mocks that I've seen have Ricky listed.
I’ve yet to see anyone project the 3rd round.
by The Mexican't on Apr 29, 2011 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
By my reckoning, there are still
Bills, Bengals, 49ers, Cardinals, Dolphins, Redskins, Seahawks, Raiders
Patriots and Indy need solid back-ups.
The decent, draftable QB’s left are, Dalton, Mallet, Stanzi, Kaepernick.
“Everything” is saying the Dalton, Mallet and Kaepernick will go in the first ten picks at Bills, Bengals, 49ers.
I’m thinking the absolute lowest he falls is to 74 to New England. I think he’ll go higher than that, though.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
I really hope the Niners get Dalton or Stanzi.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 29, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
draft tek has him at 68 to the Bills
Choke/Clutch is the fetishization of the small sample size.
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him." --Leo Tolstoy
by shake n bake on Apr 29, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound3.asp
Choke/Clutch is the fetishization of the small sample size.
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him." --Leo Tolstoy
by shake n bake on Apr 29, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
That would suck balls.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
That would suck balls.
In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).
Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.
You were right both times.
We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.
by WaterlooChazz on Apr 29, 2011 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions



























