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Around SBN: Events Cause Mariners To Lose To Rangers

Michigan State 37, Iowa 21: The [Bleep] Happens Game

My apologies for the delay in this recap, but after every few lines I had to stop and have a doctor look at my hands.  I'm good now, though.

First, the happy thoughts:



That was an amazing catch, was it not?  Marvin McNutt certainly came to play on Senior Day.  8 receptions for 130 yards and a touchdown, plus two rushes for 27 yards -- that's a pretty good day at the office, as well as Marvin's fourth straight game of 100+ yards, which seems like it might be an Iowa record.  Speaking of records... Marvin also checked off a few more notches in the Iowa record book yesterday.  Most receiving yards in a career?  Yep: he's at 2635 yards now, ahead of DJK's previous record of 2616 yards.  Most receiving yards in a single season?  Yep: he's at 1089 yards now, in front of Keith Chappelle's previous mark of 1037 yards, set in 1980.  The touchdown catch added to the career touchdown mark he already owns (26 and counting).  He's also closing in on a few more records: he's at 65 receptions for the season, 17 behind the season record of 82 that Kevin Kasper set in 2000; he's also at 153 receptions for his career, 20 behind DJK's mark set last year.  And he's one more touchdown catch away from tying the all-time single-season mark there (currently set by Mo Brown in 2002).  Watching Marvin develop as a receiver has been one of the greatest joys of watching Iowa football over the last three years; let's be sure to savor the last few games we have to watch him do his thing.

Shit happens.  In many ways, this was the sort of game Iowa had been long overdue for: a fairly decisive ass-kicking.  We almost saw it a few months ago when Pitt put Iowa in an early hole and the Iowa offense was utterly anemic for the better part of three quarters, but James Vandenberg and his receivers managed to pull the biggest comeback in Iowa history out of their asses in that game.  No such historic comeback was forthcoming here, though.  Instead, Iowa was just comprehensively beaten by a better team.  The first half of this game was the freaky funhouse mirror version of last year's first half against MSU: last year the Iowa offense made big plays and the defense forced costly turnovers, leading to a 30-0 Iowa lead at the half; this year the MSU offense was the one making big plays and their defense forced the costly turnovers, leading to a 31-7 MSU lead at the half.  

The Spartans were also the luckier team in this game (just as Iowa was last year).  That's not to say that they were undeserving winners -- far from it -- but rather an indication that virtually all of the critical plays went Sparty's way yesterday.  Four fumbled snaps?  All recovered by MSU.  Tanner Miller an inch away from a potentially momentum-turning interception in the first half?  Turns into a huge pass play for MSU.  A Vandenberg pass dies in the air?  And falls into the waiting arms of an MSU cornerback, who returns it inside the Iowa 20.  Another Vandenberg pass died in the air?  McNutt fails to haul it in and strut in for an untouched touchdown when the game was still vaguely in doubt in the second half.  A terrible Kirk Cousins pass bounces high in the air?  Broderick Binns just misses grabbing the interception when the momentum had swung in Iowa's favor in the second half.  Jordan Bernstine fumbles for the first time all season a kickoff return?  Michigan State recovers and tacks on another touchdown just before halftime.  Again, this is not "lucky" in any sort of pejorative sense -- it's just an indication that they made the critical plays in the game yesterday.  Just like Iowa did last year.  Sometimes shit happens.  Which is not to say that Iowa didn't do plenty of things to make things worse on themselves...

Star-divide

When special teams attack.  Special teams have been a consistent bugaboo for Iowa in recent years, although this year the special teams had quietly been fairly decent, at least in terms of the things that stats measure: punts, field goals and extra points, kickoff coverage, punt coverage, kickoff returns, and punt returns.  (Well, okay, they aren't good at punt returns, but I think we all know that.)  So they picked a really bad time to have by far their worst special teams performance of the season.  The special teams woes started with Eric Guthrie's miserable 26-yard punt on Iowa's first possession, setting up Michigan State near midfield.  Near the end of the half*, Guthrie got off his best punt of the day (51 yards)... and Iowa promptly gave up a 20-yard return to Keshawn Martin to the Iowa 35, setting up a Sparty touchdown.  Then Bernstine fumbled the ensuing kickoff, again setting up Michigan State in easy range of a touchdown.  Add on a blocked field goal by Mike Meyer at the end of the half (albeit a 50-yarder, so it wasn't a gimme) and you have a perfectly miserable half of special teams.  The second half didn't have any glaring errors, but the damage had been done.  Iowa could ill afford to spot Michigan State so many free yards.

* That was also set up by Micah Hyde declining to field a punt, allowing Michigan State to pin Iowa back at their own 2-yard line.  While Hyde's tendency to shy away from fielding punts has been a recurring annoyance this year, it was probably the correct decision here: punt returners are usually taught to let the ball bounce inside the 5-10 yard line.  Unfortunately, the ball just died when it got inside the Iowa 5, which allowed Michigan State to down it at the 2-yard line.  C'est la vie.

Y U NO TACKLE BETTER?  Poor tackling is not exactly a novel complaint, but it was on full display against Michigan State yesterday.  After a game in which Iowa managed to tackle fairly well (until Michigan's last few fourth quarter drives, at least), they reverted back to their season standard yesterday: poor.  There's no point singling out particular players, since virtually every defender had a play or five where they whiffed on a tackle.  The bad tackling compounded another defensive problem, which was shockingly poor play by the secondary.  After some rough moments early in the season, the secondary seemed like it had settled into a semi-respectable level of play.  No one was going to mistake them for the 08, 09, or 10 Iowa secondaries (at all); at the very least they seemed like the best unit on Iowa's defense (damning with faint praise, perhaps).  Yesterday they were in utter disarray, particularly Micah Hyde, who got skinned alive by Sparty receivers on more than one occasion (but most notably on the touchdown to B.J. Cunningham just before halftime).  On a more positive note, the defense did look better in the second half: they forced a trio of three and outs, which helped Iowa's noble failure of a comeback effort.

Run run run, punt punt punt.  There weren't a lot of egregious tactical errors yesterday, but the ones that were made were costly.  Taking the ball over the wind at the start of the game was a rotten move in hindsight (it certainly would have been nice to have the wind at Vandenberg's back in the fourth quarter) and at the time (windy days are essentially the only situations where Ferentz is actually okay with not taking the ball on the opening kickoff, so why not follow that pattern yesterday?).  But one of the most debilitating decisions was the playcalling when Michigan State pinned Iowa back to their own 2-yard line with 2:59 to go.  At that point Iowa was down 17-7 and leaking oil; they needed to keep the deficit to a manageable figure and regroup at halftime.  Keeping the ball out of Michigan State's hands was paramount (bleeding clock would have been nice, but it was also going to be challenging since Michigan State had timeouts to use).  So Iowa ran Marcus Coker into the teeth of the MSU defense on first and second down, setting up a third and long, which Iowa (shock!) failed to convert.  Moments later Iowa was down 31-7 and the game was effectively on ice.  

I get that Coker has been a beast for Iowa over the last month, but running him into the teeth of the MSU defensive front was a low percentage play all day Saturday: only five of his runs all game went for 5 or more yards and many went for one yard or no yards.  Michigan State was all too happy to see Coker trying to plow his way through the middle of the line Saturday because the odds were that he wasn't going to do too much damage to them that way. This was a situation begging for more creative playcalling: a little play-action, a little shotgun, something, anything other than what we saw.  They badly needed a few first downs to, at the very least, bleed out of the rest of the first half or allow them to flip field position.  Going three and out and giving the ball back to Michigan State near midfield was all but ensuring more points would be scored.  Which is precisely what happened. 

The Fainting Sparties?  I tried to give Michigan State the benefit of the doubt in the second half when their players started dropping like flies with injuries.  I was annoyed with Iowa fans for booing them; I'd been annoyed at witnessing Michigan State fans booing injured Iowa players (most notably Colin Sandeman) in 2009, so I wasn't eager to see Iowa fans engaging in the same behavior.  But the sheer volume of their injuries was suspicious, not to mention the fact that many of the exact same players who were forcing official timeouts to deal with their injuries were returning to the game a few plays later.  I began wondering if the Spartans had been replaced by the Italian national soccer team at halftime, or if the Spartan trainers at least had a sizable supply of soccer's infamous "magic spray" on the sidelines.  And my suspicion only grew after reading quotes like this from Jerel Worthy:

When an offense is moving like that the smart move is to just go down and just take your time and don’t kind of rush through it, but that’s what we went out, that’s what we went out there and did," Worthy said. "But at the same time, regardless of the injuries, we played our best ball this week and regardless of the injuries, we still went out there and dominated.

Look, he is right: they played their best ball and they deserved to win.  They didn't win because they (allegedly) faked injuries.  And I'm no doctor: I don't know if they truly were injured or not.  But if they weren't and they were faking those injuries (or if not faking them, then milking them excessively)... fuck them and fuck Mark Dantonio.  He was already a duplicitous, hypocritical shitbird of a coach; this would just be more fuel for that opinion.  It increasingly looks like we're headed to a Michigan State-Wisconsin rematch in the Big Ten Championship Game and personally I won't have any trouble rooting for the Badgers in that game.

Fight (back) for Iowa.  All that said, I was pleased with the way Iowa played in the second half of that game.  We're certainly beyond the point where moral victories carry any sort of value, but after a first half in which damn near everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong, it would have been all too easy for the players to throw in the towel on the game.  They emphatically did not do that: the defense forced stops and the offense strung together drives and scored touchdowns; by the end of the third quarter, it genuinely felt like Iowa really did have a shot at the comeback.  That didn't happen (obviously), but it was better than watching them roll over and die and lose, say, 45-7.

Poll
Who was Iowa's man of the match against Michigan State?
Marvin McNutt (8 catches, 130 yards, 1 TD; 2 rushes, 27 yards)
161 votes
Marvin McNutt (8 catches, 130 yards, 1 TD; 2 rushes, 27 yards)
38 votes
Marvin McNutt (8 catches, 130 yards, 1 TD; 2 rushes, 27 yards)
78 votes
Marvin McNutt (8 catches, 130 yards, 1 TD; 2 rushes, 27 yards)
108 votes
Other (HA, JUST KIDDING, THIS IS JUST ANOTHER VOTE FOR MCNUTT)
139 votes

524 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 82 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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I'm voting other.

I don’t have a good reason as to why.

by The Mexican't on Nov 13, 2011 10:43 PM CST reply actions  

Fuck 'em.

Iowa didn’t deserve to win, after the way they played the first half. Sparty didn’t deserve to win after the way they played the second half.

I didn’t vote for Marvin acct. drops.

by Norm Parker's Amputated Toes on Nov 13, 2011 10:45 PM CST reply actions  

Normally, I waffle on who to vote for.

But here, the choice is clear. Micah Hyde.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!

I voted for the third McNutt option. Why the third? Because that was the quarter in which he scored his TD, and in which the Hawks looked somewhat competent.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Nov 13, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Did anyone else think that the officiating was horrendous yesterday?

Especially if you watched it on TV, as I was in the stadium, so obviously I couldn’t see it perfectly.

And I’m not saying it cost us the game, necessarily, since we simply didn’t play well, but it looked to me and those I was sitting with that the refs did an absolutely HORRIBLE job.

by Xarin on Nov 13, 2011 10:46 PM CST reply actions  

Oh shit, he was there?

I didn’t know that, it all makes sense now…

by Xarin on Nov 13, 2011 10:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Iowa played like shit the 1st half.

They deserved what they got. Too bad they took it from a punk like Dantonio.

by Norm Parker's Amputated Toes on Nov 13, 2011 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Why does that make sense?

As I pointed out in the game thread, if he is such a Wolverine homer, one would think he would favor is over a hated Michigan rival like the Spartans.

I don’t remember there being very many particularly bad calls as much as I recall there being way too many stupid penalties on our part.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 13, 2011 11:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Great Recap

There’s no question this is turning into a rivalry game, and I’m good with that. See you next year in EL.

by SpartanBDF on Nov 13, 2011 10:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Great Recap

There’s no question this is turning into a rivalry game, and I’m good with that. See you next year in EL.

by SpartanBDF on Nov 13, 2011 10:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

reverse pass

That was a direct result of last year Iowa doing the same thing. That was some serious salt in wound action there.

by JHebz on Nov 13, 2011 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Tackling

For a team that “isn’t sexy” and relies so exclusively on fundamentals and “execution” it has been rather troubling to see such consistently poor tackling, stretching back to last season. There is simply no excuse for that at this point.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 13, 2011 11:01 PM CST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

this

so much this. our fundamentals (tackling) have been bad all year.

by kythom on Nov 13, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

We are not immune to missing some tackles,

but I just watched the Ferentz Show, and I saw Binns try to arm tackle the MSU running back as the guy ran for a long gain (or TD?)

We definitely need to tackle better. I’m looking at the LBs. I know Morris might still be kind of hurt, but I’d like to see Kirksey get back to his early-season-decency or Nielsen make occasional trips into the beast mode that he spent last week in.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Nov 13, 2011 11:08 PM CST up reply actions  

We've been seeing all year

a lot of arm tackling, or, more accurately, arm missing the tackle. I could be way off base here, I but I think that it boils down to being just slightly out of position, so the defender has to reach to try to make the tackle. Whether that’s due to a lack of speed, technique, or intuition of where is play is going, I don’t know.
Personally, I don’t care about big hits. Sure, they can be great and all, but I’d rather see good coverage that results in immediate tackles. Of course, I’d also like to see a cushion of less than 5 yards on 3rd and 5, and we all know how likely that is.

"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass

by chitownhawkeye on Nov 13, 2011 11:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Tackling a semi truck is easier than tackling Leveon Bell

everybody always says “that’s just fundamentals, gotta make those tackles,” but the size and talent of a player determines how hard it is to tackle. Leveon Bell looked pro ready on Saturday and I don’t think “fundamentals” have anything to do with a ginormously strong man pounding into you. So yeah, there is a really good excuse.

Also, Ghoulston looks like his name. He looked like a man wearing a Frankenstein costume…what a monster…and why was he trying to pump up the crowd during TV timeouts? Even if he was playing in East Lansing, that still wouldn’t be the right time to pump up the crowd.

by TangerinePony on Nov 14, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

There are rose-colored glasses

then there are whatever the hell you’re wearing.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Right, but

Gone are the days when we’d see Iowa defenders swarm around a guy and gang tackle him, or meet him square in the hole and wrap him up.

We’re chasing guys around the field and diving at feet. Waiting for the ballhandler to arrive, reacting to his move rather than making him react to ours. Our guys just don’t play downhill for whatever reason this year.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Nov 14, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

I have to disagree here

Good power runners are going to slip through tackles where the defender is out of position or not squared up. Against a defender that is getting square, hitting low, and following through even the best power runners will usually go down. They may fall forward but they will go down. I think our tackling issues have more to do with being out of position than not having sound tacklers on the team. Our guys know how to tackle, they don’t know how to get to the correct position to make a tackle.

DRUNJIFORNICATION

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Nov 14, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Please don't make fun of my glasses HoyaGoon

They are prescription. I was in a bad accident involving the color red (OSU v. IA last year).

Ok, so maybe I am wrong. I just remember my high school coach always saying “Gotta make those tackles,” and I always wanted to point out that size and speed of the offensive player matters. There is a reason why we look like good tacklers against Tennessee Tech (arguable) and we look like terrible tacklers against Michigan St.

Getting in the right position to tackle someone is difficult when a guy runs a 4.4. When that man is also 230 lbs of pure muscle (Coker) than tackling has less to do with technique and more to do with speed, strength and size.

Also, by your logic, than stop praising Coker for his 252 yd performance against Minnesota, because that was obviously all “bad form tackling.”

by TangerinePony on Nov 14, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think we disagree all that much
There is a reason why we look like good tacklers against Tennessee Tech (arguable) and we look like terrible tacklers against Michigan St.

Like i said, a good power back is going to break bad form tackles. Tenn Tech did not have a good power back so our tackles, even when they were not fundamentally sound worked better.

Also, in response to what you said about Coker. A lot of that game was him taking advantage of bad form tackling. Good backs can do this because they run with speed and power. This is a credit to him and a knock on the way they tried to tackle him. It does not have to be just one or the other.

You will have a hard time convincing me that a big strong back overcomes solid form and sound tackling technique more often than not. I think that in these situations a good back will be more likely to fall forward but it still ends with the runner on the ground.

DRUNJIFORNICATION

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Nov 14, 2011 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Why isn't the flopping a national story?

Everyone (ESPN, CFN, etc.) was so excited about the Hemingway “catch.” The flopping was blatant cheating and pretty darn obvious. Has anyone said anything (other than Eddie and Dolph?

Oh, and I agree with everything else so I won’t reiterate.

by HerkHogan on Nov 13, 2011 11:22 PM CST reply actions  

It helps (MSU) that it happened early on a Saturday,

so it isn’t going to be national news, because Boise and Stanford both lost, and there were many other games (PSU-Nebby) that also over-shadowed it.

Also, it was late in a game that wasn’t real close, so that probably kept some eyeballs away.

Finally, does anyone really expect anything better from MSU? After playing a jailbird last year, and Gholston’s game against Michigan, I think it is pretty clear that the depths that MSU will resort to are pretty freakin’ deep. If they ever win the conference (without 2 or 3 other co-champs) again, I’d expect them to call OSU to see who they should contact about trading the rings for tats/cars.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Nov 13, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

how is flopping cheating?

its basically taking a free timeout, giving you time to come up with plans and taking momentum away from your opponent.

ever heard of the feinting irish?

its very much cheating and punishable, but its also very hard to prove. personally i think a way to solve it is that if a guy goes out for an injury, he shouldnt be allowed back in during that drive as a “mandatory precautionary measure”

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Nov 14, 2011 4:53 AM CST up reply actions  

That still doesn't say how it's cheating.

If it’s punishable, tell me the rule it breaks. The entire NCAA football rulebook is online. I think it’s shitty, but I’m not sure it’s cheating.

meh

by tyger1147 on Nov 15, 2011 4:27 AM CST up reply actions  

i wouldnt necessarily call it cheating

but it certainly falls under things you should not be doing for the spirit of the game. you play the game the right way, you dont fake shit so you can get your way when you cant produce on the field. its bush league chicken shit. and we shouldnt expect anything less from a Dantonio lead team.

by IrishHawkeye7 on Nov 14, 2011 8:09 AM CST up reply actions  

My favorite part

was when two guys went down, one looked over and saw the other guy down, and stood up and ran back to the huddle.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull." - W.C. Fields

by rockyh on Nov 14, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Duh, I get that.

It’s bad, wrong, whatever. I’m not sure it’s cheating.

meh

by tyger1147 on Nov 15, 2011 4:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Frank Leahy agrees that this wasn't cheating

The ghost of Evy, however, will be visiting Dantonio very soon.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Nov 14, 2011 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

There were strong suspicions that they did the same against us

8-10 injuries, only 2-3 of which kept the player out more than a couple plays. Sound familiar?

"My hardest job is to convince the people of Nebraska that 10-1 is not a losing season." - Tom Osborne

by jdhusker on Nov 16, 2011 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

It was a nice experiment

that doesn’t need to be repeated next year. I’ve given up hoping that someone else will handle punt returns this season.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 8:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Vandy's weird throw

…. It just looks like a goofy baseball submarine pitch..

and that's another Hawkeye first down... EHAWW!!

by HawkPocket on Nov 13, 2011 11:36 PM CST reply actions  

lol that's awesome

and yes, I believe it is…

and that's another Hawkeye first down... EHAWW!!

by HawkPocket on Nov 14, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd for Kent Tekulve photo

"Beware... there are mine fields out there. Most of them are inert. However, some of them are ert."

by pahawkfan on Nov 14, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I was unable to watch the last 10 minutes of this game because my recording failed,

(I couldn’t watch the game live) but to me Michigan State won this game like Iowa used to win games. Get up early, force turnovers and get maximum points off those turnovers, stop the run, force bad pass efficiency, execute on special teams, salt game away in second half. Albeit there were some exceptions: “injuries”, special teams trickery, etc. But watching this game was like looking in a mirror.

There is no way that Paki rushes for nine yards. -KenOKeefeIfuckinghateyou.

by iamalex13 on Nov 13, 2011 11:57 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Yep

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 8:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Ya know, Iowa has a lot of weird rivalries

Iowa vs Michigan State always seems to feel personal, like there is a little more shoving than most matches

Iowa vs Northwestern feels like what Iowa vs Iowa State should have been, or maybe was before my time

Iowa vs Penn State is always a good time too.

i dont think anyone calls those real rivalries, but there are times when those feel more compelling than our real rivals.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Nov 14, 2011 4:57 AM CST reply actions  

Yes.

I’m not one of those people who blindly roots for Big Ten teams when they aren’t playing Iowa. I do tend to root for PSU.

But, I do feel a bit more jazzed when Iowa is playing a Big Ten opponent. I probably even like it more than I do playing ISU or a “good” non-con opponent like Pitt, Arizona, or ASU.

I’ve enjoyed our successes against PSU, and a mix of success and back-and-forth with MSU, and the anger at jNW, as well as our “rivalries” with Minnesota, Wisky, OMHR, and even Illinois. I hate OSU. I am looking forward to a “rivalry” with Nebby.

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Nov 14, 2011 5:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Glad you brought up the MSU "injuries"

As if they even needed to do that.
Fuck Dantonio. He’s probably the lowest-class coach in the B1G and I hope Wisconsin (Lord forgive me) pounds the piss out of them.

I said I have a DRINKING PROBLEM!!

by bornofclay on Nov 14, 2011 6:52 AM CST reply actions  

It's sad, that this is what it's come to

Wanting that toad Bielema to hang 65 on them, and me liking it.

by txhawkeye on Nov 14, 2011 8:16 AM CST up reply actions  

First of all, we got beat, soundly, by a better team

That being said, I would be really interested to see a list of “injured” spartans on the day and how long they were out of the game. It seemed like it was close to 10 “injuries” on the day. Someone that DVR’ed the game do it.

I want rational discourse, not people claiming to be rational debaters while demonizing any opposition as torch-wielding, fire-crazed zealots or kool-aid drinking sycophants. -- RossWB

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Nov 14, 2011 7:19 AM CST reply actions  

Why do you guys...

…hate Dantonio exactly?

He was already a duplicitous, hypocritical shitbird of a coach; this would just be more fuel for that opinion.

The only specific thing I see in the thread is “played a jailbird last year” which I assume means Chris L. Rucker and is not different from most or at least a lot of college coaches. It just seems weird to see so much hate for a guy who seems so sedate and lacking in personality to me, as an MSU fan.

As to the injuries, why would you try to help the other team by limping off the field quickly or staying out there while you’ve bumped your knee and it’s throbbing, limiting your effectiveness?

Two guys who were banged up, Worthy and safety Trenton Robinson, have been banged up several times like that over the season. Maybe they’re faking it in game after game, but I tend to think that’s a sign of lingering injuries. It wasn’t in situations where it hugely helped the defense more than the offense, either. Your guys want the clock stopped there, MSU doesn’t. Both sides get to rest, so that’s even. MSU’s only advantage is to stop the elusive momentum.

by witless chum on Nov 14, 2011 9:32 AM CST reply actions  

I also don't get the Dantonio hate

But I don’t follow coaching staff drama much. I will say that I foolish attempted to congratulate Sparty over on TOC and was promptly shredded for it, called a jerk, and so forth. It’s a shame, my interactions with MSU fans have been nothing but pleasant until today. One of my clients has 2 boys who go to school there so I sort of root for Sparty on the side.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 14, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Sorry

That’s lame. TOC is usually quite nice and mellow. But that was just the one guy and CPT Hoolie (a much more known and respected TOCian) had your back.

I’ll root for the Hawks unless it’s bad for MSU. A belated thanks for the fine work weekend before last, too.

And I should wish a fond farewell and good luck in future endeavours to Marvin McNutt. What a fine career he had and over so soon! We sure are upset he’s a senior!

/still bitter from 2009

by witless chum on Nov 14, 2011 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Thank you!

But I’d think 2010 would be the game to be bitter about. That oe loss to Iowa took soooo much more from MSU in 2010 than did the 2009 win. In 2009 you’re talking 4-4 Big 10 versus 5-3? Not huge in bowl terms, but didn’t the 2010 game cost MSU the Rose? Only to have Iowa crap the bed for the rest of the season… ugh. That’s what Iowa State does to US.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 14, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Jim Tressel cheatin'...

…also cost us the Rose, but the 2009 win was worse in that it was so close and heartbreaking. It’s hard to work up the proper amount of resentment when you just get steamrolled. And 2009 more attributable to Mr. Marvin McNutt.

by witless chum on Nov 14, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

that's a fantastic point

I was apopleptic after the Minnesota loss and was still kicking rocks down the dusty path a day later. But I was over IA-MSU 2011 by half time.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 14, 2011 10:59 AM CST up reply actions  

As I posted on OTE after the Gholston incidents in the Michigan game

Dantonio’s rather permissive attitude towards team discipline isn’t exactly something new. It dates back years, see for example this post: http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2007/10/25/12428/684

For the record, I don’t know anything about Gholston, he may be an exemplar or upstanding living and the Michigan game was a one-time thing. But I do think he deserved to be suspended for a game for the head-twisting (less to the punch, but that was hardly innocent even if provoked). I also knew, that any suspension would have to come from the B1G office, as Dantonio certainly wouldn’t take the lead.

I wouldn’t even mind that Dantonio’s attitude seems to be “it’s not my job to police their conduct” if he didn’t spend all his free time running around touting his morality and principled view of life. Because they aren’t really “principles” if you discard them the second they become inconvenient.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Okay

The problem with such things is usually that they aren’t written by people who follow MSU that closely.

Dantonio sometimes kicks kids right off the team for such incidents and sometimes doesn’t. He’s obviously following his own code, which includes behind the scenes stuff that we’re not privy to. For instance, Charles Burrell was a somewhat-highly touted safety who fans were pretty excited about, given that he’d chosen MSU over Michigan (M fans said they didn’t really want him, but they’d say that about Peyton Manning if he returned to school and chose MSU). He got bounced during that same 2007 year after one misdeamenor in an odd incident where he and two other players ran from the cops for no apparent reason. Burrell was apparently involved in the first Glenn Winston-led fracas, but not charged. But he got bounced for it, as did some other players. Or so I was able to peace together from the police report published in the student paper long after the incident.

And it isn’t starter versus non-starter. Oren Wilson, starting DT got bounced for being charged in the second Winston-led thing, I think because he lied to the coaches about his involvement. That was a starter a position of need for the next year and we ended up having to sign a JUCO to fill his spot. There’s a long list of other guys involved who got bounced. And good ol’ Glenn Winston was not a world-beater. He was a decent Big 10 running back and kick returner, but he wasn’t a player to who was going to be the difference in games. MSU had a raft of decent, but not good RBs that year. It makes no sense for Dantonio to bend the rules for Winston, in a cynical attempt to win games. Winston blew up his knee partway through the year and the team wasn’t noticeably worse or better.

But I can see the sanctimony thing. Honestly, I doubt I’d get along with Mark Dantonio, personally. Christianity and expressions thereof give me hives, for one. But he doesn’t, again, seem dissimilar to a lot of big-time football coaches in this.

by witless chum on Nov 14, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

There's the rub

Dantonio did seem to bend the rules for Winston, right up to the point he was injured and other backs had emerged, thus making him expendable. Then there was the dorm fight, where some players were kicked off the team, others suspended and Chris Rucker was given “zero tolerance”, only to be re-instated to the team the day after he was released from jail for a separate violation. Zero tolerance indeed.

It isn’t that Dantonio is cynical, I actually can somewhat understand it and, you’re right, a ton of other college coaches are just as bad; my problem with Dantonio is that he’s a hypocrite. Again, he makes frequent and public references to his faith and “principles”, only to never let them get in the way when they might actually be tested.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

But doesn't...

…the example of Oren Wilson do anything for you there? He was our best DT at the beginning of 2009, until Worthy started to emerge over that season. We had to count on untested players in 2010 because Dantonio bounced him. And he could have justified it to an extent, as the dorm fight was Wilson’s first time in trouble.

And the problem with your Winston theory is that Winston wasn’t any more proven than the raft of similar untried backs MSU had at that time. He’d gotten almost no carries the previous year (2008, where we rode Javon Ringer into the ground) before he was suspended. He wasn’t even the second-string, running back, was suspended for spring practice, then does jail time. The idea that Dantonio was bending the rules for him because he expected Winston to step in and be a major contributor doesn’t hold up, IMO. And Winston wasn’t. There was a series of starting backs being tried that year and it ended up with true freshman Larry Caper becoming the main back.

I think Dantonio really did have idiosyncratic reasons for giving Winston a second chance, thinking he was pulling a kid out of a bad situation. You can laugh at that idea, if you want, but I really don’t think the facts fit him doing it to reap the benefit of Winston’s great play. (From what I can find, he hasn’t surfaced anywhere else playing college ball. I really hope he figures something out and doesn’t end up somewhere worse than the Ingham County Jail for doing something worse than getting in stupid fights with his pals.)

I don’t think Dantonio is a hypocrite. I think he’s just the sort of man who’s very convinced of his own righteousness and doesn’t think he should be second-guessed. He’s annoyed that you’d ask the question and I don’t think he spends a lot of time second-guessing his choices.

by witless chum on Nov 14, 2011 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

But doesn't

the example of Chris Rucker do anything for you there?

Dantonio is maddeningly inconsistent at best with his discipline. The “Zero Tolerance” thing with Rucker was a real head scratcher.

DRUNJIFORNICATION

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Nov 14, 2011 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

It doesn't...

…because I agree with you!

Except the “maddening” part. He isn’t sharing with the public his criteria for who he’s suspending or not, so I can’t really evaluate whether he’s living up to it or not. I tend to think he’s basically trying to decide is this one is a bad kid or a good kid who messed up.

I bet he wished he hadn’t said “zero tolerance”? But I don’t think one game for a DUI is crazy. Rucker’s replacement at the time, Darqueze Dennard, played pretty well in relief, too.

by witless chum on Nov 14, 2011 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Dantonio has

consistently given second chances. Glenn Winston was a 3rd(4th?) string RB at the time. Dantonio gave him a chance, and he blew it in spectacular fashion.

Everything else related to punishment has been viewed through that lens. Really, other than the massive misfire with judging Winston’s character (who instigated two major fights and was, by all accounts, a majorly messed up guy), Dantonio’s punishments have pretty close to any other college coach.

Rucker had a DUI and got suspended. Strangely, UM has a WR that has had repeated DUIs and probation violations, and their coach gives him a redshirt with the WR depth chart looking pretty thin for next year.

by Stuka on Nov 15, 2011 6:12 AM CST up reply actions  

To be...

…fair, the outrage at C.L. Rucker isn’t the DUI, it’s that it was on top of being busted for involvement in the Rather Hall stupidity 11 months previous. Two misdeamenors in two separate incidents and all. It didn’t seem out of line to me, but neither does the U of M thing.

by witless chum on Nov 15, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Injuries

I agree that the “injuries” looked feigned, but it’s not like it mattered. I saw it as free time outs. Iowa had chances in the second half with good defensive stops to get back in the game and just couldn’t do it. Credit to Sparty for the win, it’s the biggest MOV over an Iowa team by anybody in any venue since 2007, I believe.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Nov 14, 2011 9:41 AM CST reply actions  

This.

The “injuries” were annoying and somewhat disruptive to our rhythm, but they are not why we lost the game. Sparty’s near flawless first half, and our complete ineptitude during said half, are the reasons we lost the game.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I get that you have to make an effort

to keep the D honest, but the run was not there all day, and we kept going back to it. Coker’s most effective runs were at the end of the half when MSU was backed up in prevent mode. Other than that it was 2 yards tops. As Ross said, the possession when we were backed up and down 17-7 was basically a wasted possession when you run it on first and second downs and leave yourself 3rd and long. That situation was screaming for play action. MSU was obviously daring Iowa to beat them with the pass game.

Coker has had a great year and the coaches have clearly decided he’s going to be the only guy carrying the load. Was anyone else hoping for a McCall sighting? I’m not throwing Coker under the bus here, just think it maybe makes sense to try someone else every now and then when the run game is sputtering.

Probably wouldn’t have mattered. This game and the Penn State loss honestly don’t bother me that much. The ISU and Minny losses killed the season. Hawks should be sitting at 8-2 right now. Sigh.

by Skillet13 on Nov 14, 2011 9:48 AM CST reply actions  

I agree

But I’m worried that Ferentz will throw him into the game late versus Purdue and/or Nebraska, thus burning that opportunity.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

I was thinking that too

but someone here made a good point. Who is the last RB to play 4 years at Iowa. If you can get 2 or 3 good years out of a RB I think that is great. He appears to be physically ready to play. I don’t know if a RS does him a ton of good. But neither does sitting on the bench watching coker play.

DRUNJIFORNICATION

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Nov 14, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

haha, just like Canzeri

I really wish he and McCall end up having “undisclosed” injuries.

Ferentz is stoooopid.

meh

by tyger1147 on Nov 15, 2011 4:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Canzeri's been out there on special teams

so it’s somewhat understandable. But, unless he has an injury that hasn’t been disclose, Bullock has been MIA ever since he fumbled the one time.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 15, 2011 7:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Who cares, seriously?

The odds of an Iowa running back (a) STAYING five years and (b) being HEALTHY 4-5 years are ridiculously poor.

If McCall’s a really good running back, he won’t be staying for a RS senior year anyway (if he has any brains at all, at least). If he’s just an average or above-average running back, well, frankly guys like that aren’t exactly irreplacable.

I understand protecting that redshirt senior year for guys who might actually use it (particularly QBs), but for running backs I think it’s fairly useless.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Nov 14, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

this is how i feel too
This game and the Penn State loss honestly don’t bother me that much. The ISU and Minny losses killed the season. Hawks should be sitting at 8-2 right now.

I don’t think I have ever been so calm about losses as I was with these two games. PSU more so because I like them much more than MSU but these are games I thought would be tough to win starting the year.

DRUNJIFORNICATION

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Nov 14, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Honestly, the Minnesota loss is the only thing keeping us from being on pace with my pre-season prediction

I thought we’d lose to either ISU or Pitt — we did.
I thought we’d split with PSU and jNW — we did.
I thought we’d split with Mich and MSU — we did.
I also thought we’d split with OMHR and Neb — we could.

I did not expect the Minny loss, though, which stings even more after seeing how bad they were for most of the season. The Minny loss is the one that really lingers, IMO. The ISU loss is annoying because it was a very winnable game (and it’s ISU), but (a) they’re not shit-awful this year (I hate to agree with the CFers, but they would be bowl eligible with our schedule this year) and (b) I don’t expect Iowa to run off long winning streaks in this series anymore (the 80s are over). But Minnesota sucks and Iowa should have beat them by double digits. /sigh

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Nov 14, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

True

it’s weird that I thought each one of those splits would go the opposite way than it has (e.g. lose to Michigan but beat MSU)

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Nov 14, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

it has been an odd season

and usually at this point of the year I start to feel like I know what to expect. I have no idea what to expect out of the GAME OF THE CENTURY with OMHR.

DRUNJIFORNICATION

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Nov 14, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah.

Turns out Michigan was the annual “get our shit together against a ranked opponent” game AND Michigan helped out by devising a particularly idiotic offensive gameplan. (And the refs favored us, according to Michigan fans.)

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Nov 14, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

What in the world are you talking about here?

There weren’t a lot of egregious tactical errors yesterday, but the ones that were made were costly. Taking the ball over the wind at the start of the game was a rotten move in hindsight (it certainly would have been nice to have the wind at Vandenberg’s back in the fourth quarter) and at the time (windy days are essentially the only situations where Ferentz is actually okay with not taking the ball on the opening kickoff, so why not follow that pattern yesterday?).

Iowa took the ball to start the game. That means that MSU got it to start the 2nd half, thus giving Iowa the option of taking the win in either the 3rd or 4th quarter. I thought it was a curious decision at the time, but we obviously felt that it was important to make up some serious ground in the 3rd period, thus our decision to take it then.

Either way, Iowa’s decision to take the ball to start the game was actually the CORRECT decision if someone wanted to guarantee that they had the option of going with the wind in the 4th quarter.

by i_love_iowa on Nov 14, 2011 6:23 PM CST reply actions  

Also,

I’d say, particularly at Kinnick, our offense is our strength. So, you go with your strength to start a game against a ranked opponent.

Also, KF is all about the routine. Take the ball, get some runs by Coker and a pass or two to McNutt, and hope your team gets fired up?

We will become more intensity!!! --What Reading Rambler thinks Tom Brands should do.

by WaterlooChazz on Nov 14, 2011 10:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Ah, thanks.

I got a few of those details confused.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Nov 14, 2011 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Why do I love Iowa fans? Reason 419:
He was already a duplicitous, hypocritical shitbird of a coach; this would just be more fuel for that opinion.

Reason 420: The dudes who were tailgating on Golfview, you know who you are. Thanks again!

www.mgoblog.com

by Misopogon on Nov 15, 2011 12:10 PM CST reply actions  

That's not a very 420 reason.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Nov 15, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

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