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The Takeaway: Indiana

Sure, Iowa just beat Indiana, 45-24. But how much do we really know? What was really important about beating Indiana? What does it all mean, Basil? The Takeaway has the answer.

Well, at least we're not them. For as much as we've groused about Iowa's shortcomings this year, look where the Hawkeyes are now: 5-2 (2-1), and whipping fellow Big Ten member Indiana. Iowa's going back to a bowl for the 9th time in 10 years by the end of this season (barring outright catastrophe, anyway), and Indiana's going to have attended just one bowl in that same stretch. So, look: even for Big Ten teams, it can be so much worse than what Iowa's got, and it's nice to see the Hawkeyes reaffirm the fact that even in what you or I might call a "down" year, they're remaining on a much higher level than the Hoosiers.  

More to the point of this game, Iowa's offensive leaders flexed nuts. Marcus Coker and Marvin McNutt were both over 100 yards by halftime, and James Vandenberg's final numbers -- 12-16, 253 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INT, passer rating of 290.33 -- were filthy. Kirk Ferentz didn't get cute with the offense when it faced an inferior D; he basically challenged Indiana to stop the best players Iowa's got, and the Hoosiers obviously couldn't. That's not to say that we're exactly happy to see Kevonte Martin-Manley and his departure from the offensive gameplan, as KMM has all of four catches for 27 yards in the last three games (none of which came Saturday), but at least JVB was bombing Indiana's secondary with McNutt instead.  

Star-divide

Third down is actually just first down in pupal stage. Iowa scored 45 points, all on offense, and Indiana managed just 24. Who managed more first downs? Iowa? OH HO HO NO, that would be Indiana with 24 on the day. The Hoosiers were 7-14 on third down conversions and 2-3 on fourth down, meaning that Iowa's defense allowed a first down after 9 of the 14 third downs. That's clearly better than the 16-22 ratio Northwestern put up on Iowa's defense last week, but still: jeez. And did we mention that this was the first start for Indiana true freshman QB Tre Robinson ? Because it was. At least last week, it was One-Legged Dan Persa laying waste to Iowa's third down defense; allowing an unheralded true freshman to post a line of 16-24, 197 passing yards, 1 TD, 16 carries, and 84 rushing yards in his first damn start is, frankly, a new low.

Want more statistical disaster porn? No? TOO BAD. Iowa is 112th out of 120 FBS teams in third down defense, allowing conversions at a 50.88% rate. On fourth downs, Iowa has given up 7 of 11 tries, good for 92nd in the land (hey, it's in the top 100). Altogether, the Iowa defense has allowed 161 first downs in 7 games, which puts them in a tie for 104th in the land. And that's against some sad competition. This is, flat-out, the worst defense since the opening years of the Kirk Ferentz era, and at least even then there were some future stars getting snaps. There's no Bob Sanders playing in the secondary. There's no Aaron Kampman playing on the line. Hell, there might not even be a Jared Clauss playing on the line at this point. We'll stop short of "nobody in this linebacking corps would challenge Fred Barr for a starting role" because that might be pushing it, but still: where's the base of talent for Iowa to build off of in coming years? James Morris, sure, but after that... who?

Welp, Indiana found something. One unheralded aspect of Indiana's defensive effort (which didn't exactly warrant much heraldry) was the four sacks the Hoosiers got on Vandenberg, usually by sending a speed blitzer around the outside. Clearly, there's a vulnerability in both Iowa's outside blitz pickup tendencies and Vandenberg's ability to step up in the pocket without losing command of the field. Hopefully, there's a schematic remedy for this, because if Indiana can take JVB down four times by just overloading the edge, Michigan State is going to get INFINITY SACKS in two weeks. 

If Marvin McNutt keeps this up, we'lll... actually, hold on. We could go for hours on the type of season McNutt is putting together. Short version: it is pretty much unprecedented in Iowa Hawkeyes history, and it is a bigger threat to the Iowa record books than if we coated those record books and set them on fire. Check back here at 9:05 CT, and we'll have the nitty gritty for you, because it deserves its own post.

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Last Year's D Wasn't Good Either

2009’s defense was sick.
2010’s defense was meh, yielding a number of game-winning drives, and nearly yielded one to Indiana.
2011’s defense is sad.

We’ve been on a downward slide D-wise since the Orange Bowl. Is it just personnel leaving? We did graduate some fine players, Angerer has turned into one of the few bright spots on Indy’s pathetic defense.

I feel that the secondary is passable, but we are missing tackles up front like crazy. Lots of overpursuit, the defense has a desperately feel to it and it shows in play. I actually think the D-line is more talented than the stats show, and linebacker is … well linebacker is … anyway, the D-line is more talented than the stats show.
 
They’re definitely underperforming. I don’t know enough about defense schemes to know why, but I suspect we’re doing The Usual Iowa Thing without making adjustments to account for our talent level and the type of players we have available.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 7:40 AM CDT reply actions  

The tackling

and so many people have mentioned it, but every game we appear to be missing scores of tackles because the guys are out of position with respect to the ball carrier, and so are reaching and trying to arm tackle. When they’re squared up, they’re still hitting people well, but that’s not happening nearly as often as it should.

"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass

by chitownhawkeye on Oct 24, 2011 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

The 2010 defense wasn't quite on par with the 2008 and 2009 incarnations, but it certainly wasn't a bad defense.

The late game collapse thing gets pinned on the defense, which isn’t entirely fair. They were routinely put in bad spots by an offense that was wildly ineffective after Halloween. If they provide the defense with even an average number of points (or even just sustain some more drives), the defense doesn’t look quite so bad.

I don’t know enough about defense schemes to know why, but I suspect we’re doing The Usual Iowa Thing without making adjustments to account for our talent level and the type of players we have available.

I’m just not sure there were many options between injuries, attrition, and inexperience. We’ve tried out about every available body at DL (minus a few true freshmen). Ditto at LB and DB. I suppose we could play a bit more nickel, but even that’s complicated by the fact that our third-best corner (Lowery) has been hurt until the last few weeks.

Maybe with a few tweaks from the usual approach, this defense could perform a little better… but if, at the end of the day, you’re still rolling out walk-ons like Tom Donatell at OLB and Joe Forgy at DL and true freshmen like Quinton Alston at MLB… well, there’s a ceiling on how good your defense is going to be. We lack a lot in the way of horses this year.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

We've lost a lot of talent and recruiting hasn't kept up

Our 2008 defense had 8 NFL draft picks. 7 of those guys started, with Klug coming off the bench, and our best defender didn’t even get drafted in Mitch King.

The 2009 defense was even better. It was arguably the best defense of the Ferentz era. Arguably had the best pass defense in the country that year.

In 2010, we still had a good defense, top 25 good, just not top 10 good.

This year, the poor recruiting from 2008 & 2009 is coming home to roost. The fact that our LB corp has been decimated by injuries has only compounded the problem.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Attrition has gutted the defensive line and injuries have gutted the linebackers. Consequently, we get the worst front seven play from an Iowa defense in a long, long time.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Will next year be any better then?

I get the sense that we’re in for two rough years defensively. This year, and next year might actually be worse, or certainly not much better. This is one of the reasons I want to get the most out of this year, I just feel like when we lose McNutt and even more defensive starters next year, 2012 is going to be roooooouugh. I guess the schedule next year is ok, r only road back-to-back is jNWU and Indiana, and we’ve got PSU and NE at home.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's also player attrition.

We’ve had so many players on both sides of the ball leave the team….and that probably has something to do with it, too.

I said I have a DRINKING PROBLEM!!

by bornofclay on Oct 24, 2011 9:15 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

The defense stinks, but I think this is a little unfair.
We’ll stop short of “nobody in this linebacking corps would challenge Fred Barr for a starting role” because that might be pushing it, but still: where’s the base of talent for Iowa to build off of in coming years? James Morris, sure, but after that… who?

Um… Christian Kirksey? He’s probably been our best LB this year and he’s just a sophomore.

In the “not a LB, but still exciting” department, Tanner Miller and Dom Alvis have been encouraging (and exasperating, but we’re focusing on the positive for now, right?).

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 8:30 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

And Hitchens, too - he's just been hurt.

But there’s no real reason to think that he has little to no potential or won’t be solid or even great once healthy.


"Pursue happiness... with diligence."

by Bucketochicken on Oct 24, 2011 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know the LB's have not been great but for the most part they are at least young

Don’t we graduate two or three D-Linemen this year? That group is underwhelming and running out of time.

He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Oct 24, 2011 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes.

Binns, Daniels, Daniel, Nardo, and Forgy are all seniors this year.

The amusing (and sad) thing is that nearly everyone on the defensive line this year is either a senior or a freshman.

SENIOR: Binns, Daniels, Daniel, Nardo, Forgy
JUNIOR: Gaglione, Bigach
SOPH: Alvis
FRESH: Hardy, C Davis, Trinca-Pasat, McMinn, Spears, Cooper, Tsopanides

This is where the absolute gutting of our defensive line via attrition over the last few years is catching up to us in a big (and bad) way.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am pretty sure that Big Carl Davis on the field this weekend

when Mike Daniels got dinged.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

and at 7'11" tall and 600 lbs

he has some potential at DT

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I thought it was 6'00" and 711 lbs.

Leverage baby.

"TAYLOR MARTINEZ IS AIDS ON TWO FEET"
-@DanBeebe

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Oct 24, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

He and Tiny Alvis

equal out to two normal-sized DTs

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember when they had Daniels and McNutt interview each other on BTN?

And one of the questions was about who the most difficult coach was or something, and McNutt stopped himself reading it and was like “Oh, that’s your coach, isn’t it?” Gave me the impression that the DL coach was a giant jerk, or at least all stick and no carrot. That can’t have helped with the attrition.

by Notclevr on Oct 24, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Kaczenski will murder you in your sleep.

He is awesome.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Being a tough coach does not equal being a jerk.

I’ve never seen anything that would seem to suggest that coach K was pushing kids out of the program.

by The Mexican't on Oct 24, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget Derby

Didn’t he make the tackle on his first special teams appearance? He might not play much/at all this year, but there is another talent for the future. He’s 6’ 4- should be a heavy hitter when he’s developed as an LB vs his current QB workouts.

BOOM 4-3 cover 2! Deal with that!

by 99playsNAblitzaint1 on Oct 24, 2011 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah.

Guys like Hitchens, Derby, and Alston all fall into the same “potential” bucket. They certainly could be good — hell, in two years or so they could be our starting LBs for all we know.

I distinguish them from Kirksey because (a) he’s played a lot and (b) he’s played pretty well.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

LB competition will be fierce next year

We now have 10 scholarship LBs who will be either Sophs or Jrs next year. Barring injury, I expect LB play to be very good next year. Not that it helps us this year, but brighter days are ahead.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hello? You play to win the game.

Ferentz is all in to win in 2011. Not 2012. It’s not like my PS3 where I redshirt all of the best players to build for an awesome year.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd say Kirksey is on a simlar level to Sophomore Jeremiha Hunter

The problem, obviously, is that Sophomore Jeremiha Hunter was probably the 11th best guy on the starting defense, and Kirksey is fairly easily in the top half of this defense.

Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa

by Not Marv Cook on Oct 24, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's kind of a problem.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree completely on Kirksey as a guy showing potential and production

But he was awful in one game…ISU I think? I try to block it out.

by Notclevr on Oct 24, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, Kirksey was pretty much the only bright spot in ISU

it was Morris who got absolutely abused in that one. And it’s been said by a couple of people, Morris’ rep far exceeds his actual output to date.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bernstien excites me. For realz.

But his potential won’t be fully realized with Iowa.

meh

by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's BernSTINE.

Didn’t bucketochicken already bring this up? Is this some sort of joke that I’m missing?

(disregard the “OT” comment, that was a typo. Hands in the wrong place on the keyboard.)

by The Mexican't on Oct 24, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is it wrong that I read "he's just a sophomore"

in Keith Jackson’s voice? HEEE’S JUST A SOPH-O-MOOORE.

Templeton Rye'd the Lightning.

by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Oct 24, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where did Boomstein go?

It could just be me watching in a bar with too many distractions but it seems that I have heard a lot less of him as the season went on. For awhile I was thinking he would be the fire this group needed but that piece is still missing.

He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Oct 24, 2011 8:38 AM CDT reply actions  

he did have a good return in the game

But the blocking was really good on that one.
after watching Hester last Sunday I was shocked it didn’t go to the house.

Please don't tell me how you hate BSU or their turf...I know all too well and keep my toliet water blue for a reason.

by BoiseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 10:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

He's been making hits

The announcers don’t call it out a lot, but #4 comes flying in around the play pretty frequently. It would definitely be a lot worse without him.

I think he could catch on as a special teams guy in the pros if he gets a chance.

by Notclevr on Oct 24, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

This

he as probably the most sure tackler out there on Saturday on a day where not many were wrapping up

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please, for the love of god, let the hype machine turn off
James Morris, sure, but after that… Who?

"The more I get hit, the more they git hit" - Marcus Coker

by Nature Boy on Oct 24, 2011 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

+1

I check cheddar like a food inspector

by SpanishJohnny on Oct 24, 2011 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

When healthy, Nielsen is a stud

He hasn’t been healthy much this year, but according to the coaches, he is just as good as Edds.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

But this notion that Morris is the next Pat Angerer turns me off. I think he is adequate when healthy, poor when injured thus far, but to be great I am not convinced. Quniton Alston looks like he belongs. I want him out there in the first halves of games.

"The more I get hit, the more they git hit" - Marcus Coker

by Nature Boy on Oct 24, 2011 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't forget that Angerer had the benefit

of a pretty stout DL to clear the lanes for him.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

but Angerer didn’t get him out of position by consistently over-pursuing/not staying under control. Too often, Morris looks like an over-excited puppy out there and takes himself out of plays.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, he was injured

and almost quit the team. Only to come on strong and win the starting MLB job his junior year (and beat out the guy I thought was the future there – Jacody Coleman)

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

My point was he had more time to develop his skills than Morris

So we should expect better, or at least, more disciplined play.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

So maybe we should wait and compare Morris and Angerer after their junior and/or senior years.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is all I can ask for

"The more I get hit, the more they git hit" - Marcus Coker

by Nature Boy on Oct 25, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

+5

Not sure if its been injuries, but after watching the kid last year fill in I had high hopes. This year…he’s constantly being caught out of position, over-pursuing, getting blasted off the line or just plain missing tackles. Some of that may be accredited to the d-line, but yeesshh…

He needs to put in work this summer and put on another 10-15lbs.

by IAinCA on Oct 24, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

He’s honestly not in my top 3 defenders I’m excited about for the future. I’m not sure he’s in my top 3 LB’s I’m excited about for the future with Mr. Derby joining the corp. I’m real high on Alston and Kirksey. People are blaming the ankle sprain but he was average before that. Basically he was a stud in high school and had a lot of tackles last year. A lot of the tackles can be attributed to the system and even more can be attributed to his man catching a lot of passes in the zone in which he covers. To be fair it doesn’t help he’s often cover wideouts but what Iowa LBer’s haven’t been asked to do this, love it or leave it.

Either way how many games or even moments can you remember where you can say, “This guy is a game changer.” Maybe the int return against Tenn Tech but that was an absolutely horrendous pass that fell into his lap as his man was wide open.

by JHebz on Oct 24, 2011 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

6 LBs missed all or part of Sat's game due to injury

Nielsen
Morris
Hitchens
Poggi
Dibona
Getz

I’m sure that had nothing to do with our poor defense.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 8:47 AM CDT reply actions  

All those dinged up LBs

but we still find a way to get a healthy LB in pass coverage on a speedy WR. Funny how that works out.

"You taught me a lesson, I was going to give someone the benefit of doubt, and I almost did, then something said, no don't, don't, its not for you, its not my thing" Larry David,

by Mac G on Oct 24, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

I was actually moderately happy with the D on Saturday.

Consider the defensive guys we had on the sideline: Daniel, Neilsen, Nardo, Daniels (he was in the locker room for a while), and who knows who else was nicked up.
The thing that actually bothers me about the game is that it wasn’t as close as the 45-24 score. Yes, the offense went completely vanilla, which is fine. It’s classy, it’s not running up the score, blah. After having a pretty sick goal line stand to make the score 35-17, the first team D didn’t let up another point. In case nobody noticed, IU’s last touchdown was against the backups/walk-ons/true frosh, etc., in garbage time. It was a beat down and Indiana tried to make it look prettier, and who could blame them?
And I hate to nitpick, but it’s Tre Roberson, and he looks pretty darn good if you ask me.

by RandomHero on Oct 24, 2011 8:48 AM CDT reply actions  

One of the great mysteries of the season

Has been Prater’s poor play. I wish I knew what was going on.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

This

Maybe he’s getting frustrated at the lack of action and gets too aggressive and subsequently getting beat. The targeting penalty was horse shit.

"The more I get hit, the more they git hit" - Marcus Coker

by Nature Boy on Oct 24, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

He’s admitted this in interviews, saying that he is too aggressive on runs and tries to jump routes too often. He’s still playing good football. Prater Island> Island of Dr. Lowery and Mr. Hyde.

Castillo island? Well, that’s just a floating mass of garbage in international waters were WRs can go to gamble, drink and do whatever they want.

by TangerinePony on Oct 24, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

We need to get some of the special teamers some reps on D

Nico Law and others looked like they wanted to play. We need some SWAG to get this thing going. I know that it won’t solve many true problems, but I have stated here before that we need some attitude on that side of the ball. I mean would it really hurt anything to get Miller, Law, and Bernstine on the field at once and send some nickel blitzes?

"The more I get hit, the more they git hit" - Marcus Coker

by Nature Boy on Oct 24, 2011 8:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Hopefully a trip to Minnesota will quench your thirst.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Who was?

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh.

WHY? Does anyone on the coaching staff really believe those two are the future of the Iowa secondary? If the coaches trust Nico Law enough to be on kick coverage (and Sleeper isn’t I believe), I really don’t understand why they don’t have them out there getting reps as the 2nd team SS. Given Bernstine’s departure after this year, it would be nice to have a SS with some actual in-game experience. And I’m pretty sure that guy is going to be Law, not Sleeper.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I will bet large sums of money that he won't be the starter

by Week 4. I think you’re right about the beginning of the year, though.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's the new Paki-bomb?

Starts the first game of every year only to quickly give way to the better guy?

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or the current Castillo

He’s been the starter in Game 1 2 of the last 3 years at least (not sure about 2010).

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I could see moving Hyde to FS, Miller to SS, with Lowery and

someone else at CB, probably Castillo, but maybe Lomax at CB

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

That line up looks like a tire fire

IF, and I think it is a big if, they try to move back to FS, I don’t see Miller making the switch to SS, he just doesn’t have the build for it. And Law was brought in specifically as a SS, I believe. Assuming the Hyde switch, I see it like this

CB – Lowery
FS – Hyde
SS – Sleeper/Law (where Sleeper is the starter in Game 1, lasts as long as he did this year)
CB – Castillo/Lomax/Campbell (see above at SS, either Lomax or possible Campbell replacing him by Week 3)

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Please no

We do not need to ever screw around with Hyde at safety again

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Like I said

It’s an assumption. Feel free to disagree.

As it stands now, we can expect exactly 4 non-freshman scholarship Safeties next year: Jack Swanson, Colin Sleeper, Tanner Miller, and Nico Law.

I assume a freshman won’t start.
I assume both starters will be on scholarship.
I assume that Miller will start at one of the safety positions.
I assume Swanson will not start because he has never played any significant minutes.

That leaves the other safety position: a second year player who has never played significant minutes, or a fifth year player who has started two games, and is apparently ahead of the other player on the depth chart (based on last Sat’s game). Given that our coaching staff is what it is, I assume that the 5th year player who has started 2 games would get the nod over the second year player who has never played significant minutes. But, like I said, it’s just an assumption.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

So what? Nobody was smaller than Bobby Sanders at SS.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was replying to HoyaGoon's post

That Miller doesn’t have the build for SS.

I disagree. Miller is a huge for an Iowa FS and is just as big as the typical SS we’ve had over the past decade.

Now, there is more to playing SS than size, but that’s not a good reason to assume he can’t/won’t play there.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah, gotcha.

I did not correctly infer your meaning there.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Build =/= size

Miller is “bigger” than Law, but it’s linear, he’s taller and therefore has more size, but it is less compact. Better for covering WRs and the like, he’s not giving up 5 inches or more to the typical WR. Law, on the other hand, is built much more like a SS, at least the Iowa model of SS, almost a small LBer with speed. Bob Sanders was tiny, but he was also close to prototypical for the way Iowa wants its SS to be. Iowa wants its SS to be able to hit, see Sanders or Bernstine, and Miller doesn’t really have that, Law does. Miller is good at FS, and I think he’ll only get better, but it would be poor resource allocation to move him to a spot he’s less suited for.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

But, Law has a slight build too. He is much smaller than I expected. Built like a CB or small FS.

Miller is lanky, but he is big too. He is not squatty like BB (who is) or Merrick (who wasn’t any good despite his build), but he is thicker than Paschal ever was and isn’t he just as thick as Sash was as the same age?

Perhaps you’re right and the coaches was a certain body type at SS, a short thick body. That still doesn’t mean they won’t play Miller there if he is the best option.

In 2004, Paschal played out of position at SS because there was no other good option. If need be, Miller can do the same. I’m not saying it will happen, or that is should happen, but the coaches will try to get the best four in the secondary next year, and they may decide to play him at SS in order to do so.

Barring injury, Miller, Hyde, and Lowery will start next year. Lowery will start at CB and Hyde and Miller will play where we need them depending on who the fourth starter is.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

BB=Bob Sanders

Don’t know why I decided to bring Brett Bielema into this.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

What's wrong with Miller at FS?

CB – Lowery
FS – Miller
SS – Sleeper/Law
CB – Hyde

This is a winning combination, with only two new starters, both with real game experience at the given position.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nothing is wrong

that lineup was predicated on the assumption that Hyde was going to be moved back to FS. I don’t think he will, or should, but that was the working assumption

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just don't get why some here are excited to blow up the whole defensive backfield.

Quit tinkering and leave Hyde at CB. It will all be fine.

Unless the sentiment is that the frosh CB’s are so good that they need to be on the field next year, so move Hyde to make room. Which is dumb. Because (aside from arm tackles), Hyde is pretty damned good.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hyde should definitely stay at CB

and he can lay some hits if he wants, in the jNW game he absolutely leveled Coulter on a option run and had some good tackles Saturday.

And calling Law “slight” is pretty funny to me…he’s not that by any means, sure he’s not yolked like Bob was, but definitely not “slight”. Besides, he’s a freshman and Dole will have 10lbs of muscle on him by next year.

by IAinCA on Oct 24, 2011 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bob Dole.. body builder

He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Oct 25, 2011 7:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I anticipate being 7-3 after the Michigan State game.

With Purdue and Nebraska left on the schedule. I think we can win at least one of those with an outside chance to win them both. In either case a successful season when many say we are in rebuilding mode.

It's so sad how a family can be torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs.

by FiveSecondRuleChef on Oct 24, 2011 9:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Winmath

We should beat Minnesota and Purdue, I think we’re clearly better than either team.

Michigan is beatable at home. Robinson hasn’t really played much at Kinnick, I don’t think, and the hostility of the environment is worth a few points. I don’t think Michigan State is as good as their record, and I think they come into Kinnick and Iowa once again puts together a season-defining game and crushes them. They’ve got a psychological blind spot when it comes to us after the epic 2009 game, and we ground them into burger last year. I’m not sold on Michigan’s offense, I think it’s erratic and turnover-prone. I’m also not sold on Cousins. I think if we blitz a bit more and stuff the box and make Cousins throw, we’ll get some picks.
 
Both games are at home. The key game to win is Michigan, it gives us some swagger and gives MSU something to think about. Right now, Iowa is off everybody’s radar screen, and that’s a place Iowa very much likes to be. If we beat Michigan, we’re Top 25, and if we beat Michigan State, we’re top 20. That’s a classic Iowa story line.
 
I think, though, that if we sweep Michigan, we have a letdown loss at Purdue, which then leads to an implosion in Lincoln. If we go 1-1 against Michigan/MSU, I think we go 1-1 against Purdue Nebraska. And if we’re 0-2 against Michigan/MSU then … well. By God we’d better beat Purdue and MN just to make a bowl game.

 I just can’t see a way through this season that doesn’t involve at least two more losses. The D needs a sound performance at the Bank to build some momentum going into the Michigan home stretch.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed he did

And he was killing us before chucking up that ugly pick on the last drive. They were totally unprepared for his speed on the zone read stuff and QB keepers.

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just like Forcier did after taking over for Shoelace last year

So whoever their second string QB is might want to be ready to lead a near comeback against us in three weeks.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Gardner has not looked capable of this

But then again, he hasn’t met our D yet

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is Gardner a runner or passer?

I think that was what helped the last two years. We did a decent job against a pass first spread QB and then not against the zone read in 2009. Last year was the opposite.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

And he's big

Best comp would be a less-talented Cam Newton

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's what I remember too

I didn’t see the game and I don’t remember how much play time he got, but I don’t think he’s had to come into Kinnick and play a full game where it’s all on him.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

We're not beating MSU

unless we get a lot better on D and blitz pick up FAST. That team really scares me right now.

Oh, and Ferentz, if McCall is able to go again, DO NOT put him back into MSU as the first game, because they absolutely are dirty enough to try and hurt him again.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Meh. MSU looked LEGIT after beating OSU last year too.

Let’s not yet count out their ability to shit down their leg

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's also not count on something happening

that they’ve shown no evidence of to date. After looking shaky earlier in the season, it looks like MSU has got it coming together and I don’t like the idea of playing a brutal defense late in the year against a team that is on an upward trajectory.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, sounds like last year. We were fretting Greg Jones on the blitz

Not saying we’re going to win 49-3 again or whatever the exact score was, but I’m not drinking the MSU kool-aid just yet.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except

MSU’s defense is much better this year. According to Football Outsiders, MSU had the 42nd best defense last year. Before the Wisconsin game, MSU had the 10th best defense this year. And that was without Gholston.

This is a much better MSU team than last year.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Disregard comment about Ghoston

I meant to also say they played well against Wisconsin even without Gholston.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're misusing stats

What were they ranked before the Iowa game last year where we hung 49 on them and the bowl game that was even worse? That’s your comp, not season-end stats.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Unadjusted stats show

MSU is 2nd in total defense this year through week 8 compared with 32nd last year through week 8.

This year they’ve played two good offenses in Notre Dame and Michigan, and one great offense in Wisconsin.

They held ND to nearly 200 yds less than ND has gotten against other teams, Michigan to over 100 yds less than they have gotten against other teams, and Wisconsin to nealy 100 yds less than they have gotten against other teams, and that was without Gholston.

MSU has a much better defense this year than last.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

See, your point has merit without having to inflate it

/refuses to back down

Perception is a funny thing, though. Remember at the beginning of the year when everybody was saying MSU would have a terrible D without Greg Jones, he was their only good player, and so on and so forth? Now they’re saying MSU has a world-beating Defense. I think it’s somewhere in the middle. They’re probably a Top-15 Defense this year, but in no way do I think they’re 2nd-best in the nation. I’d say they’re probably 3rd in just the B10 behind PSU and OSU. If they continue this tear they’re on, good for them and I’ll eat my words. I just don’t have that much faith yet in Sparty.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't inflate anything

I listed objective facts as reasons why I thought MSU had a better defense this year. Total Defense is an official NCAA stat. MSU is currently second. It doesn’t mean that I believe they have the second best defense or even that I believe that they have the second best defense. It’s just a stat. It’s a reason to believe their defense is better this year, but it’s not determinative.

Same goes for the FO F/+ defensive ranking. It’s one piece of evidence, nothing more, nothing less. Although, the more I think of it, it’s a pretty strong piece of evidence, more than you gave it credit for, considering it is opponent adjusted.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Answer me why they didn't beat ND then

Exactly, I refuse to believe in MSU until they beat us. They beat Wiscy last year as well; that loss to ND is not an aberration. Don’t forget, East Lansing has never been a good place for Beliema just like Kinnick has been rough on Dantonio.

"The more I get hit, the more they git hit" - Marcus Coker

by Nature Boy on Oct 25, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

MSU was penalized 0 times for 0 yards against Wiscy.

Just saying.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

And that proves nothing

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was horse shit.

Especially when considering that MSU had a false start go uncalled on that last drive. That’s the one penalty that is almost never missed.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 24, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Purdon't is deceptively good

Rumor says they have lots of young talent that is yet to be developed…so they should be better by the end of the season. Also, Rite-Aid stadium is undderrated for atmosphere. I’ve been there thrice and they have rowdy fans. They also have the World’s Largest Drum*, which seems to spark some excitement.

  • Clearly not the largest. Our alumni marching band has bigger drums.

by TangerinePony on Oct 24, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

They also have Godzilla blowing up Tokyo and the numerous Boiler Up vids on the big screen

Intimidating atmosphere.

Seriously tho, our record at Rite-Aid isn’t great under KF – the lone win is 2005, I believe.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

honestly, beyond TCF

are you comfortable with any game? Indiana was the last game I felt 95%+ confident in. I saw us shit the bed against a vastly inferior Gopher team last year and I wouldn’t put it past us this year.

This is the last game of the season we are clearly favored. We will be dogs against Sparty, UM and Nowledge U, with a good chance of it being a push against OMHR.

"Sometimes the truth gets in the way of a good story" - KF

by The Bacon Explosion on Oct 25, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

One thing that everybody seems to forget

is that the first game a QB starts they often look a lot better than they will in subsequent games. People often underestimate the importance of being able to gameplan to a QBs strengths/weakness.

Also, for all of the gnashing of teeth about our “D”, we only gave up 3 real points after those first two drives. And I know Mike Daniels was not in on the first drive of the game, because our seats were low in the south endzone and I could read all of the jerseys clearly.

by DrHenryKillinger on Oct 24, 2011 9:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Iowa is currently 42nd in scoring defense

So still typical Iowa D in ranking better in points allowed than the defensive component stats. And also worse than in years past where they were in the top 20 or 10 in scoring defense.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like some evidence of this.
the first game a QB starts they often look a lot better than they will in subsequent games.

meh

by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's quite often in the pros, not sure about NCAA. I really only watch Iowa

NFL examples from the last couple years: Kolb, Tebow, Newton, McCoy, Ponder, Gabbert, Freeman, etc. And those are the guys that kept their job. For guys that have stunk since: Josh Johnson, Stephen McGee, Dan LeFever, Shaun Hill, Matt Flynn, Matt Moore, Caleb Hanie, Joe Webb, David Carr, Derek Anderson, Seneca Wallace, Bruce Gradkowski, Billy Volek, OK I think I need to stop.

I think it’s actually a pretty strong premise.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, this is a perception thing

Let’s look at Tebow and Ponder who the pundits seem to think were so great in their first starts this year.

Tebow yesterday 13/27, 161 yards, 2TD, 0INT, NFLPR 91.7. Meh. Yes, they won!! Woohoo!!! Timmy Tebow has ARRIVED! No, not really Mr. Bayless. I will give him credit for being really good in the last 6 minutes of the game. Against a team who isn’t sucking for Luck they’re down 40 points and he can’t lead them back.

Ponder yesterday 13/32, 219 yards, 2TD, 2INT, NFLPR 59.2. Also, 72 of those yards were on the first play from scrimmage. I really, really don’t call that a good day. Yes, he scrambled and kept plays alive, but if that’s “looking better than in subsequent games” I almost feel sorry for Vikings fans. Also, GBs pass defense is not, ummm, very good (31st in the league).

Also, without going into a mountain of stats, how many of those guys really had a great game one and bad subsequent games vs. having a few good games their first season before ultimately failing?

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, then you're getting into gradations

The general premise was that a new QB tends to have a style or ability that is better against defenses that haven’t yet seen it and schemed against it. I think the premise is more valid than tyger does, and threw out a bunch of names that seemed to fit.

FYI, for the guys you specifically mentioned: Tebow’s first starts would be at the end of last year and IIRC they were quite better than his horrible 3.5 quarter-start to last week (especially in non-NFLPR stats like rushing effectiveness). And I guess I thought of Ponder’s first minutes as mop-up duty against a prevent D vs Chicago rather than last week against Green Bay, so maybe he doesn’t fit the bill perfectly when going by first start.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice job of moving the target, I should have anticipated that

So is it first starts or first action with Ponder? Sorry, but stats are not gradations, they are facts. “Looked good” is a subjective assessment that is based on wins and big plays, not a body of work that looks horrible if you look at 60 minutes of football instead of a few minutes of the game. You said “first start” Ponder’s first start was a shitshow of bad QB play with one good play off the bat.

Tebow’s first start was a 39-23 loss to the Raiders. He was 8/16 for 138 yards with 1TD/0INT and a rating of 100.5. He also ran 8 times for 78yds and a TD. Not too bad actually, except he lost so by the standards of his first start this year, it wasn’t good. Because against a bad Miami defense his numbers were bad excepting his OMG TEBOW HAS ARRIVED comeback.

by PackerHawk on Oct 25, 2011 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did I move the target? Didn't intend to.

I agreed that Ponder probably didn’t fit the bill of what we were discussing.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 25, 2011 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

You went from "first start" to "first appearance"

Yes, that’s changing the argument. Especially since “first appearance” often comes in garbage time or out of frustration and gets the benefit of facing a team that hasn’t seen film of the QB.

Glad you came to your senses about Ponder though.

by PackerHawk on Oct 26, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'd like to think we'd recognize the difference between college and pros.

A really fast, quick QB can rely on natural escape-ability a lot easier than he can in the pros.

Names (in college) that support this: Steele Jantz, Terrelle Pryor, Brock Osweiller, Darron Thomas, Matt Barkley, Nathan Scheelhaase, Denard Robinson, Kirk Cousins, Rob Bolden.

Also, I don’t think that you actually looked up every single guy to test this theory. I’d also like to think that you’d realize that just listing off names of all QB’s is hardly the way to present evidence of a blanket statement of that was made. Ridiculous.

meh

by tyger1147 on Oct 25, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Morris is in NO WAY

A good MLB. Every time there is a big play, I look for him, and he’s either A. Missing a tackle and/or B. On the ground.

Horrendous defense this year. Made even worse by a total lack of QB pressure by this front four. (Where the hell is Binns this year? Or was Adrian Clayborn THAT good?)

by sfshilo on Oct 24, 2011 9:35 AM CDT reply actions  

That whole post is hyperbole.

"TAYLOR MARTINEZ IS AIDS ON TWO FEET"
-@DanBeebe

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Oct 24, 2011 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not by internet standards

No personal attacks and no “worst ever” comments and no death threats. On the series of tubes, I think it’s still a step short of hyperbole. Any other means of communication, yes. Interwebz, no.

Also, no calls for Solon to burn to the ground or wishing he’d never been born.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lets not forget that Morris is...

a) still just a 19 yo true Sophomore and, 2) nursing a leg injury.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Let's remember AC was still a 1st rounder after playing poorly with a leg injury

To say that Morris is not good is ridiculous.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he isn't good.

I rec’d Bucket’s comment. I was just saying that sfshilo engaged in what is not hyperbole on the internet, but would be anywhere else.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Comment wasn't aimed at you, but at sfshilo

But, uh, mandatory hyperbole joke: YOU’RE ONLY SO DEFENSIVE BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU’RE SO WRONG

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's a much better hyperbole joke than mine.

Even if it holds some truth, that is.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not that he's not good

it’s that he is nowhere near as good as he’s made out to be. If he didn’t have the quintessential Iowa born and bred backstory and were instead some 3* LB recruit out of Illinois, no one would be bending over backwards as much to defend his play.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree with your point

But the guy was saying Morris was definitively not good. In caps, even.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Binns has played very well this year

I am not sure what to make of Morris.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait, why would you ever QUIT sniffing glue?

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ummmm, glue

"Sometimes the truth gets in the way of a good story" - KF

by The Bacon Explosion on Oct 24, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's the glue

"Sometimes the truth gets in the way of a good story" - KF

by The Bacon Explosion on Oct 25, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Did you C & P that quote?

If not, how the hell did you spell pterodactyl correctly?

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Binns has had his moments

you have to remember he was always considered the 4th or 5th best lineman though.

Morris is a true sophmore. he stepped up last year on an experienced defense, and this is a learning year for him. im not about to abandon him yet this year though.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Oct 24, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Binns has been okay this year -- probably our best defensive linemen.

Morris has had some rough games, but he’s been hurt a lot. He should really probably sit and try to let that ankle heal up because I’m not sure he’s doing us any favors by trying to play on a bad ankle. We might be better off taking our lumps with a true frosh like Alston in there instead.

Calling him “in no way a good MLB” is a bit of hyperbole, though.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think his whiffed sack where he came unblocked showed he couldn't cut on his ankle

He had a good line but was unable to adjust to the QB when he stepped up to avoid him.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Im not worried about KMM

He is going to get catches, especially against the good competition we are coming up against. same with the TEs

the thing is, he is there when we need him, but when McNutt, Davis, and Coker play the way they did yesterday, they are going to get the passes and the handoffs. but as they get double covered and other teams sell out for the run or blitz, the passes will open up for KMM and the others

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Oct 24, 2011 9:44 AM CDT reply actions  

McNutt and Davis have the physical attributes

to catch the fade pass which Vandy has proven quite adept at throwing. KMM is just not quite tall enough but he can burn and has good hands and is just a true freshman.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

Also, at the risk of being jumped on

It might be time for Norm to retire, or at least be given a less important role on the defense.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Oct 24, 2011 9:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Jump

I think its more personel issues

He sired a baseball team... An orchestra, if you count the bastards!

by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Oct 24, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think this is really the issue

While I will admit that part of me thinks that it might be best for everyone involved in Norm retires soon, the biggest problem this year is a lack of talent, not the scheme.

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Duh.

Apparently having Mike Stoops yell at them on the sidelines would make Thomas Nardo and Dom Alvis, like, way better football players.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

groan

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oh come on

I rec’d it

"He lowballed us and said: 'Take it or leave it. If you don't take our offer, you are rolling the dice.' I said: 'Consider them rolled.' " - Jim "Huge Brass Balls" Delaney

by ClaybornSmash on Oct 24, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I liked it. I always like Kluginator's slight inappropriateness.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, he can still kick someone in the ass and hop around on his other foot

Clearly a better coach than Norm.

Never *question* Bruce Dickinson!

http://www.thebirdcult.net

by The Bird Cult on Oct 24, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, its not just that the defense isnt that great this year

if it was just one year of bad defense i wouldnt say anything due to the many many years of great defenses he has given us

my reasoning is two fold. 1. the defense under him has never been that good at containing running QBs and it seems Running QBs are here to stay, and 2. He is old and has been having health issues as of late.

"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts

by justsomehawkeyefan on Oct 24, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know that Iowa "isn't good at containing running QBs"

But I also think that when we play them they tend to produce at lower than their average output. I am going off of my recollection here, but it would be interesting to look at the stats. Yes, it’s frustrating getting gashed by running QBs and spread offenses, but if Norm’s defenses hold those offenses below their averages and Iowa gets, I think they’re successful performances.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

BBDB (Bend But Don't Break)

seems to allow more third down conversions, while containing the big play. This is nothing new in the Iowa scheme, is it? Still expecting that college kids will eventually make a mistake, and this D is certainly giving them tons of opportunity (plays) to make that mistake.

Our red zone D will tighten up with a bit more experience, and is the red zone D really awful this year? That’s the most important stat category.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I agree with everything here

Although I think scoring defense is the most important stat (although closely correlated with red zone D in the BBDB). In that regards the D does better than 3rd downs, etc this year. However, they’re still much worse than most years which I think is a lack of execution not a fundamental flaw in the scheme.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Red zone defense is about the only part of the defense this year that IS good.

We’re second in the league (behind, surprisingly, Michigan) at 71%. We’ve allowed 22 scores (17 TD, 5 FG) on 31 trips.

So the red zone defense is OK; the problem is that we just can’t get other teams off the field between the 20s. Not surprisingly, we also rank dead-last in the league in opponent 3rd down conversions; they’re converting 51% of the time on us this year. And, no, this is not business as usual for the Iowa defense. They were 6th in 2010 (40%), 5th in 2009 (36%), 3rd in 2008 (35%), and 7th in 2007 (40%). We’ve never been lights out at opponent 3rd down conversions, but we’re typically much better than we are this year.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Silver lining, Ross

Think about how much EXPERIENCE this young D is getting with all of those 14 play drives that end in a FG?

In all seriousness, I hate that they can’t get off the field sooner. I think that will improve with time/experience/improved health. But at least they buckle down enough in the red zone. That tells me they’re on the right track.

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's all part of the plan

look how fresh the offense has been all year with the added rest.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but

having a DC that doesn’t do any positional coaching does stretch the staff a bit thin. And we see that on special teams. I really think not having a full-time, special teams only coach is as much to blame for our woes there the past few years as is the relative youth of the players on ST.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure we did

I think the current LB coach was the special teams coach.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure we've never had a full time ST coach under Ferentz.

Wilson and Norm actually used to split the LB coaching duties: Norm handled inside LBs and Wilson handled outside LBs, as confirmed here. I’m not sure why they thought that was a good idea, but hey.

Now it’s entirely possible that the ST coaching is suffering because Wilson now has to handle ALL of the LB coaching duties PLUS the ST coaching duties… and it’s probably even worse when he has to play so many inexperienced linebackers. I imagine guys like Morris, Hitchens, Kirksey, etc. require a bit more attention than a few years ago when you could roll out guys like Edds and Angerer, who had been in the program 3-4 years and knew what they were supposed to do (and had experience doing it).

That said, it probably wouldn’t hurt to have a DC who also handled some positional coaching to free up some time for one (or more) of the coaches to spend time on ST. But I doubt we’ll ever have a full-time ST coach (or a full-time QB coach, something else people pine for), so long as the NCAA keeps the maximum number of coaches you can have at the current level.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right

Thought we did have a full-time ST coach, but it was a full-time TE coach that we didn’t have for a while. I do think, however, that Norm’s limitations are placing a strain on the defensive coaching, and that it will continue until he does retire.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

We miss Clayborn

Even though he was, statistically, not a huge factor in 2010, he was still routinely doubled-up. Opposing defenses game planned around him, which opened up opportunities elsewhere. There is nobody on the D like that now, and teams can put together a relatively vanilla blocking package. When I look at Iowa’s D, I actually think our biggest weakness is contain. We’re too slow in pursuit and guys are able to routinely chip away 2-4 yard pickups going east-west, always with an Iowa defender falling behind them and taking a useless swipe at the ankles. The D reeks of desperation.
 
I know everybody is bagging on the talent level, but I actually think the D is playing below its talent level.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 10:10 AM CDT reply actions  

Clayborn was also really really effective in contain

He didn’t get many sacks last year but teams very rarely got outside on him. There were a few games where I think the coaches told him to just maintain contain and avoid getting up field because they were concerned about the inexperience at linebacker. It was particularly obvious in the Michigan game where the whole d-line basically just stood up at the line and refused to get up field unless it was 3rd and very long because they were terrified of Robinson.

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly

it seemed like our DE’s were just a second slow to the edge on Saturday. I think Clayborn had the speed to beat the runners to the corner.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does anyone think Kirk's LB sales pitch to Derby

was essentially the stat line Adam just posted above? “You want playing time? Our whole fucking defense is a train wreck. When do you want to play?”

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 24, 2011 10:51 AM CDT reply actions  

this exactly

And now – Kirk has some freedom on the recruiting trail for Rudock’s clipboard holder, too. We’re officially thin at QB after next year. Pass it on to Gunner Kiel?

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

If he's officially looking

and we haven’t contacted him again, the coaches are crazy. Talent like that you need to keep contacting until they tell you they’re not interested

"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass

by chitownhawkeye on Oct 24, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Rudock is improving quickly enough that there was no guarantee AJ would be # 2 next year

I think that has a lot more to do with the switch than the injury/PT situation. If AJ were really a solid # 2 for the future, he wouldn’t have switched.

I also think that guys that punch out bus windows aren’t QBs by nature either.

Never *question* Bruce Dickinson!

http://www.thebirdcult.net

by The Bird Cult on Oct 24, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is one potential outcome:

Michigan State is going to get INFINITY SACKS in two weeks.

Or Marcus Coker is going to get INFINITY JAILBREAK SCREENS in two weeks. Just kidding, that would be a specific gameplan for an opponent and we don’t do those.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 24, 2011 10:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, I really worry about that game

Michigan State was out to avenge their lack of Rose Bowl bid last year. They did that against an evenly matched opponent. I can imagine that their trip to Iowa City will have a similar revenge factor and Iowa is, on paper, nowhere near as good as Sparty this year. This game scurrs me.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm actually excited for it

I’m not sold on MSU. I think it’ll come down to turnovers and whether Iowa can pick up the 78 blitzes MSU will run against us. Iowa is under the radar (where we like to be) and has historically gotten up to play against better competition. We’re at home, we’re playing spoiler, I think the magical formula is there for an inexplicable win.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Look at MSU this year

Loss to Notre Dame. Badly. Notre Dame isn’t horrid but they’re not good, either.

BARELY beat Ohio State, in a bleeding eyeballs kind of game. Ohio State isn’t horrid but they’re not good either.

The Michigan game was closer than the score. They were incredibly lucky to beat Wisconsin. It took an ill-advised Brett “The Face” Bulimia time-out to get them that W. I think Wisconsin handily wins that game in OT.
 
MSU is having sort of an Iowa-2009 kind of season. They’re highly vulnerable, limping past under-qualified competition and getting by with piss and vinegar and a little luck. I haven’t seen a full game of theirs yet so maybe I’m biased by the few portions I have seen, but they look like a team that is winning games, but not beating anybody, if you know what I mean.

If Iowa is ready to go for that game, playing spoiler, at home, the stage is set. Our D is going to give up 30 points to them, the question is whether our offense can stay ahead of pace. That’s why I say turnovers. We have to score fast and often, and we need to force a turnover or two.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

This part
the question is whether our offense can stay ahead of pace.

is what I worry about. Iowa has faced exactly one good defense this year, and they put up 3 points against them. Oh, and that team was sick of losing to Iowa too and very motivated to reverse recent history. Sound familiar? I’m not saying Iowa won’t win, just that this game is the one I’m most nervous about.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Keep in mind though

that as good as PSU was against us (and they were very good on D) our receivers hurt us just as much by dropping passes thereby killing momentum and getting in their own heads. It was just a bad day at the office.

I’ll be sold on MSU when they make it through an entire year producing at a consistent level.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Oct 24, 2011 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa has been a better team

at home while Michigan state has been a less than spectacular team in their 2 road games. (Loss to UND and 3 pt win over a Boomless OSU). There is always hope that in three weeks the Hawks heal up sufficiently to put on a stout display at Kinnick. Besides, Michigan State still has to lose that one big annual game that drops them from national attention; if not at Nebraska then it will be against us.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sparty needed a miracle tip to beat Wisconsin

At home… I’m not convinced Sparty is all that good… I’m also not convinced that Wisky is all that good either.

Right now, with their defense, Penn State might (gasp) be the best team in the league and may end up with the conference crown. We will see. They are playing great defense right now.

Never *question* Bruce Dickinson!

http://www.thebirdcult.net

by The Bird Cult on Oct 24, 2011 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even as I feel increasingly sorry for Joe. He’s hard to understand, his mobility is somewhat impaired from the hit he took earlier this fall. It’s getting kind of sad.

by txhawkeye on Oct 24, 2011 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

MSU was lucky last year

This year, they’re good. Worse for us, is that we don’t match up well against them. MSU’s biggest weakness is OL, but our DL is unlikely to be able to take advantage of that.

On defense, MSU excels at blitzing. We’ve struggled against the blitz this year. I don’t like like our match-ups in this game. It’s certainly possible that JVB burns them when they blitz and that their weak OL allows our DL to be a factor, but I don’t expect either of those outcomes.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

The blitz is my biggest concern. If we can’t pick those up and unload that ball quickly, it’ll be an ugly day.

A man may leave Iowa, but Iowa never leaves a man.

by hawkeyeinstl on Oct 24, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's a good matchup in that, stylistically, they play into what we like to do more than, say, Northwestern.

But, yes, this year a lot of the individual/unit matchups don’t look like they’ll be in our favor. I think to have a shot at winning we need to bait Cousins into making some bad throws and get some turnovers. He was very good at avoiding that against Wisco. Not so much against us last year. Of course, to do that we might need to shut down (at least slow down) their run game and force him to pass more… which I’m not convinced we can do. I could see Bell and Caper methodically eating us up on the ground and Cousins killing us over the top with the odd play-action pass.

On offense, I watch MSU blitz and blitz and blitz and my nightmare scenario is a repeat of the end of the PSU game. Hopefully we figure out a way to fix that problem by the time the game rolls around. Wisco had pretty decent success running on them, which gives me a little optimism; our OL isn’t as good as theirs and Coker isn’t as good as Ball, but if we can get something going there it will help out a lot.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cousins might not need to pass it at all.

Unless their offense gets bored with 8 yards per carry for three straight quarters.


"Pursue happiness... with diligence."

by Bucketochicken on Oct 24, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

MSU didn't lose to ND badly

The score was really mis-leading. ND had just 275 yards of offense in that game. MSU had more total yardage, won TOP, won the turnover battle…they lost it in special teams and a timely ND pick late in the game when MSU was driving to make it 28-20. ND returned it basically the length of the field and made a field goal for the final score of 31-13.

ND provided a blueprint to beat MSU. Get up early (Wisconsin did this, but as I assumed, their defense is just so-so and their lack of road experience showed), slow their run game, make Cousins beat you. ND did an excellent job of slowing the MSU run game and making Cousins throw everywhere (he had over 50 passes in that game).

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's not forget that Wisky

well, Bielema, gave MSU that game. MSU was lucky to win in regulation – not lucky to win, because they played Wisconsin pretty even, just lucky in how they won – rather than having to go to overtime. OT is always a crapshoot, but I would have given a very slight edge to Wisky because it seemed like momentum had swung their way late in the game and I think that might have been just enough to win. Instead, Bielema got greedy and went full-retard, gifting MSU with timeouts that gave them a chance to attempt a hail mary – timeouts that did very little to help Wisconsin out even if they had gotten a stop.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

They were really lucky to win in regulation

I agree, Wisconsin has an edge in OT and Bret had a huge full-on retard moment. With that offense, from the 25? That’s a TD almost every time.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

That timeout was fine

At the time they had them in a deep hole and it looked like they might be able to get the ball back, and MSU had a timeout left anyway, so they could have stopped the clock themselves.

And even if that weren’t the case, it only came back to bite them because MSU scored on like the lowest percentage play imaginable. 99.99999999999% of the time it would be completely harmless. The only way it looks even remotely dumb is with the benefit of hindsight

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

That 0.0000000001% is glorious, though



They even make statues about some of the great ones:

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Goddamn Franco Harris

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 25, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, the mistake was calling a TO a play or two before

When MSU is running low on time and just out of FG range. Bielema was hoping for the stop and to get the ball back, but he’d only have about 15-25 seconds with, at most, one timeout left and at his own 20 or worse. It is the over-aggressive flip side to KF’s conservatism, it was clearly the wrong call at the time.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who's to say that they don't break the punt return for a big gain?

Which they had been doing all game. The odds of it working were relatively low, but the odds of it actually hurting them were even worse. It certainly was not what cost them the game, nor was it “full on retard”.

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

It wasn't full-on retard

It’s just fun to refer to Bret like that.

It’s definitely the inverse of KF’s conservatism. With that offense and MO on their side, I think OT was the better decision. But you’re right – hindsight makes it look really dumb. And MSU was really lucky – #4 for Wisco mis-timing his jump, Cunningham having the ball hit him straight in the face – and the carom falling to Nichol on a platter (but making a nice reflex catch) – barely getting over the line. It was lucky.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right on about #4 mistiming his jump (I think it was Abrederris, or something like that?)

As I watched it unfold, I thought if he was just a 1/2 second (or less) later that ball would’ve either been intercepted or knocked down and on to OT. Seriously, that was one lucky as fuck play for MSU.

by Captain n Diet Coker on Oct 24, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because you're playing for a low-probability event

while greatly increasing your risk of losing. MSU only needed about 10-15 yards to get into FG range and had been moving the ball well on the final drive. Then Wisky got a tackle for loss and it looked like MSU was not going to be overly risky but play for overtime – in other words, MSU was not going to preserve clock with their timeouts. The best thing for Wisky here is to let time run out, there wasn’t really enough time for them to drive the 50+ yards they’d likely need for a long FG attempt, and the risks of things going against them were much higher than they were in their favor. To put it another way, Wisky had a lot to lose and very little to gain. Instead, Bielema got greedy, and it bit him in the ass. A sentiment, I should point out, that was shared by the roomful of Wisconsin fans I was watching the game with.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

All this talk of probabilities and game theory

I feel like I’m a fly on a wall in the weekly strategy sessions with KF and KOK!

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Shorter version

Sometimes the percentages say go for it, there’s more to gain than lose; other times they tell you to play it safe, you’re more likely to hurt yourself than help yourself. Saturday night, it was the latter for Wisconsin.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I understand the arguments.

I just think it’s funny when we have so many fans that fancy themselves Bill Barnwell (who is excellent, BTW) and a coach that thinks game theory is a fad for hippies.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

They weren't really moving the ball well though

That’s why Bielema was even in position to call the TO, and why MSU needed a ridiculous hail mary to win. The only reason it bit him in the ass was MSU completely an extremely low percentage.

And again I don’t think they were banking on a long drive. They were banking on the punt returner, who had been great all game, potentially putting them in a position where they could take a few realistic shots at winning in regulation. And again, the downside wasn’t that extreme. At most they gave them a couple extra seconds and MSU was still in a position where they were going to need to convert on a really low percentage play to make them pay for that. They happened to do so, but that doesn’t mean the decision was bad at the time. If that Hail Mary gets batted down no one says a thing about it.

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not really

It wasn’t the timeout right before the Hail Mary, it was the timeout in the plays before that, which allowed MSU to continue the game. Again, all MSU needed was about 15 yards to get into FG range, something that was eminently doable with Wisky calling TO before the sack play while WI had to (1) get a stop and (2) hope for a huge return and (3) still be out of range in all likelihood after the return with very little time and no timeouts. And assuming a big return is specious here, MSU was on the Wisky 45, in all likelihood the punter is simply told to kick it as far as he can so it goes out for a touchback and thus no return.

In the end, Bielema has no one but himself to blame for this loss.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

He called TO after the sack play, not before.

And they wouldn’t have been punting from the WI 45; if Wisconsin had been able to stop them, they would have been punting anywhere from the MSU 24 to the MSU 43.

In the end, Bielema has no one but himself to blame for this loss.

Well that’s not absurd hyperbole or anything.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right

had the order of plays mixed up. Read OTE’s story on the final drive and that set me straight on the timing of the calls. The bad TO was the one with approximately 42 seconds left with a MSU team that was scrambling and facing a long third down. Bielema gifted them a TO which allowed them to get collected and pick up the first down.

And I still think that game goes to overtime and Wisky wins if Brett hadn’t gotten greedy at the end. And I have a dozen Wisconsin fans to back me up on that one.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you.

Never *question* Bruce Dickinson!

http://www.thebirdcult.net

by The Bird Cult on Oct 24, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not as sold on that TO as the first TO, to be sure.

I can see why he did it, but there’s definitely a case to be made against it (especially since MSU had just gained 12 yards the play before).

I lean Wisco in OT, but if MSU had won there it wouldn’t have surprised me; it kind of seemed like their night on Saturday — the ball seemed to be bouncing their way at times.

I just think there were a lot of reasons Wisco lost that game other than Bielema’s timeout decisions; their special teams were shit, they let Cousins pick them apart, their defense got exposed a bit on the edges, and Wilson had some dumb dumb dumb interceptions.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

and a safety for IG out of the end zone.

by txhawkeye on Oct 24, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'd say this loss for Bucky is far worse than any we've had under Ferentz

I mean, this is a program KILLER. Wisky was in the view of the pollsters and fans on the inside track to the MNC. Choking like they did… is going to make it very, very hard to get the kind of QB talent to come to Wisconsin they need to get over the hump. They had the QB this year – I don’t think there’s anyway their system normally would attract the kind of athletic QB needed to really beat people with their system.

Never *question* Bruce Dickinson!

http://www.thebirdcult.net

by The Bird Cult on Oct 24, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh come on.

A PROGRAM KILLER is losing at home to UW-Whitewater. This was an in-conference loss on the road against a slightly lower-ranked opponent with a terrific defense. In other words, the normal kind of upset-ish game that happens all the time every October.


"Pursue happiness... with diligence."

by Bucketochicken on Oct 24, 2011 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also there was a pretty good chance they didn’t make the title game anyway because the Big Ten is garbage and the computers hate them.

by NorseHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

The computers would have warmed up to them a bit

Had they won out they would have had victories over PSU, MSU, OSU and probably another against MSU or Nebby. Might not have been enough to overcome another undefeated team, but the noncon schedule was what was killing them in the computers.

by PackerHawk on Oct 25, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think those wins are worth as much as you'd think

The computer polls hate the whole conference (with good reason)

by NorseHawk on Oct 25, 2011 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

the season is not over yet

it would not be the first time a one-loss Big Ten team reached the NC game. I am not saying it will happen by all reports of Misky’s demise are bit premature.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 25, 2011 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Misky = Wisconsin

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 25, 2011 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

No way

Yeah, it probably knocks them out of the title game (they would’ve needed big-time help to get there, anyway). But they still stand a good chance of going something like 13-1 should they win the title game and their bowl game. It’s a good team, at least offensively. Their defense is shaky, but still a good enough team to win 12 or 13 games.

They’ll have far worse losses than this. It was a road game against a top 15 team with a fantastic defense. Hardly a program killer.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 25, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

If things go correctly

And we can make it out of TCF Bank with a win and take Michigan at home this turns into a game for control of the Legends division. Assuming Sparty can go to Lincoln and take care of business.

Whomever wins is sitting on top without a divisional loss.

"Sometimes the truth gets in the way of a good story" - KF

by The Bacon Explosion on Oct 24, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Iowa will either play their best game of the year against MSU and surprise the hell out of us...

Or they will get mercilessly dismembered on the Kinnick turf.

I don’t see much in-between in that game.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Dantonio won’t hesitate to hang > 50 on us if he gets the chance.

by PackerHawk on Oct 24, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

But it just seems Kirk fucking hates Dantonio. I know this is opposite year, and this game scares me, but I could see this being the inexplicable win. Fuck you Dantonio.

by txhawkeye on Oct 24, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

Because I don’t. IF we lose, we’re going to lose huge because it will be the case that we can get nothing done against their D and our D can’t stop them at all.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed - it won't be a close game

If it’s a loss, it’s because the offense is completely stalled and the defense can’t do anything to stop Sparty. Same if we win – their up-and-down offense can’t do anything/has bad turnovers like a year ago, and our offense pounds on them like we did a year ago/Wisconsin was doing for stretches Saturday night.

And Dantonio will go all Bret Bielema with the points if he has a chance – the two staffs do NOT like one another.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I want someone to break Dantonio's leg

I don’t wish injury on the players – though it would be karmic retribution if it happened – but Dantonio deserves to be taken out.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I recall a few odd timeouts from KF before half

during last year’s game. I remember Dantonio starting to jog off the field and then KF called a timeout and MD had this disgusted look on his face. What was the story with that? Anyone remember the details there?

Then again, Dantonio always looks sort of disgusted, so maybe it was nothing.

by Skillet13 on Oct 24, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

For some reason, KF went into full "FUCK YOU" mode last year versus MSU

and the timeouts right before half were just part of it. It seemed like KF was saying, “No, we’re not going to let you slink off into halftime, your ass is staying out here as long as possible as we shut you down for a few more plays.”

This is purely a guess, but I think Ferentz was pretty disgusted with Dantonio’s decision to bring Rucker and decided to show it.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Morehouse keeps pleading the 5th on it

(if you have access, check out the Live Chat with him in the Lounge on Hawkeye Report from last Thursday), but there is definitely some bad blood between the 2 staffs. I suspect it has to do with recruiting. Morehouse said to forget about Iowa State, Hawkeye fans should really be hating on Michigan State.

by Captain n Diet Coker on Oct 24, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's really interesting.

I can’t handle HawkeyeReport, but that’s a story I wish I knew more about. Hmm.

by The Mexican't on Oct 24, 2011 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

HR has it's fair share of knuckle heads, but there are some well-connected people in the Lounge

And you can get some really good info. The Morehouse chat they do every Thursday has been must-read. Nice addition to their message board.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I read that too

I’d guess it’s more recruiting than anything. We recruit a lot of the same players, so we go head-to-head frequently.

And I believe there were some hints dropped in February that a league member went uber-negative against Iowa on the recruiting trails and it was widely believed to be Michigan State. I have nothing to back that up with, though, and could be thinking of another school (it was also widely believed that OMHR and Tiller were uber-negative against Iowa when we went head-to-head for recruits).

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, pretty sure it was Michigan State (or at least most likely)

Cooper did admit that they said some bad things about Iowa, but he didn’t elaborate nor has anyone else.

by Captain n Diet Coker on Oct 24, 2011 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

IIRC

It’s been reported that MSU told Cooper that some Iowa coach(es) would be fired after signing day because of Rhabdo or something along those lines.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

…very interesting. Still, though, the Rhabdo thing would have been after we played them in last year, which doesn’t explain the KF fuck you timeouts. Must have been some bad blood that started before that as well.

God, I hope we roll them again this year.

by Skillet13 on Oct 24, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

And here we all were

thinking it was Wisconsin for so long, because they’ve gone after a lot of the same recruits. MSU makes sense, though, because I remember Cooper saying something about it and a few others.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm sure there's no love lost between the Iowa, UW, and MSU staffs

They all recruit the same guys. Similar styles. Similar desire to join the traditional powers in the league.

I’m sure Wisconsin isn’t totally innocent in the negative recruiting realm – in reality, probably very few teams are – but they’re probably less blatant about it than MSU. Yes, it’s annoying that UW always manages to offer the same guys Iowa does a couple weeks later (seems to happen more often than not). It’s also annoying that they recruit guys from other schools – they’ve done it to us, and they recently got a big offensive line recruit to switch from Penn State (though we’re not innocent in that either – Albert Young and Cedric Everson come to mind – and I’m sure they follow the same rule we do in that we continue recruiting someone until they tell us to go away). But in the end, I think they run a pretty clean ship when it comes to how they recruit, a few little annoyances aside.

MSU though – I don’t think we can say the same about them. They’re blatant about it, and Cooper is the latest example.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 25, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who was the big OL from Des Moines who picked MSU over Iowa?

Wasn’t there a lot said about the nature of Iowa’s program and the criminality or whatever? The kid is a MSU legacy, sure, but still, maybe he had some… ideas about Iowa planted in his head by the MSU staff. And to be fair, this was right around the Everson/Satterfield times, so… whatever. But still, I wonder what all was said behind closed doors.


"Pursue happiness... with diligence."

by Bucketochicken on Oct 24, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was just going to make this point

Barrent(?) was his name. He was committed to Iowa. Then the shit hit the fan with off the field problems and then he switched his commit to MSU, I believe citing off the field problems as the reason why.

I just wanna see Kirk Ferentz cry.

by nattybumpo on Oct 24, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's my recollection as well

Had committed to Iowa early, then switched to MSU in the summer of 2008 went everything went to shit with the Everson-Satterfield story – and I still believe the Press-Citizen’s reporting on the story was incredibly reckless. Barrent basically said he switched because he was worried about the environment/off-field problems at Iowa (we’ll ignore the irony that he went to MSU to avoid off-field transgressions).

There were a few whispers at the time that MSU’s staff was really playing up the Everson case as a means to recruit him, and Barrent was a highly-sought tackle prospect, a consensus 4*, who probably would have been the state’s top recruit in any year that didn’t include Wegher and Keenan Davis. Ironically, Barrent had to quit football earlier this year due to chronic back problems (similar to Austin Vier, also from that same recruiting class I believe).

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that timeline is correct

Barrent was with Iowa in the spring of 08, then switched later that summer (late July/early August, I believe) and cited the off-field issues.

Everson was an MSU commit before changing his mind to Iowa on Signing Day in 2007.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

David Barrent from WDM Valley

He had originally committed to Iowa, then switched to MSU after a few arrests. Rhabdo was after, yes. That’s just one example of the recruiting war we’re currently engaged in with Dantonio and Co.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 24, 2011 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Barrent was a spectacular steal for MSU

REGISTER NEWS SERVICES
The Des Moines Register
May 11, 2011 ET
Link:
Michigan State offensive line­man David Barrent, for­merly of West Des Moines Valley, is forfeiting his final three years of el­i­gibility because of chron­ic lower-back prob­lems.

Coach Mark Danto­nio says Barrent has decided to apply for med­ical disqualification, which would al­low him to stay on schol­ar­ship with­out count­ing to­ward the football team’s lim­it.Barrent is pursu­ing his degree in me­chan­ical en­g­i­neering.The 6-foot-8, 308-pound Barrent appeared in sev­en games last sea­son, mostly on special teams.

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

The irony is

had he come to Iowa and suffered the same fate (which is probably likely) a bunch of people would be using it as proof that Iowa shouldn’t recruit highly-ranked players as they all tend to bust.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Have I just been Larson'd!!!

"Make it tasteful, but dongier" - Blackheartnopants

by Kluginator on Oct 24, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Barrent is certainly insulated from thug culture at MSU

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a good thing MSU plays so clean

Oh wait….

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Oct 24, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ahhh, the Jailbreak Screen.

The great auk of offensive play calls.


"Pursue happiness... with diligence."

by Bucketochicken on Oct 24, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Did everyone see Clayborn's sack this weekend?

Just clubbed the tackle blocking him and dropped Cutler.

meh

by tyger1147 on Oct 24, 2011 12:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Not to take anything away from Clayborn,

but I’m pretty sure I could beat the Bears’ left tackle more often than not.

"No I'm not going to 'limber up'. You ever see a lion stretching before it takes down a gazelle?"

by Swarley on Oct 24, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jared Allen couldn't...

You got no fear of the underdog; That's why you will not survive!

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Oct 24, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chicago's LT had a LOT of help against Allen.

He had a lot of help against Clayborn, too, but one on one? I could take him. Hell, most of us on here could probably take him. I know CW’s throat punch would be especially effective!

"No I'm not going to 'limber up'. You ever see a lion stretching before it takes down a gazelle?"

by Swarley on Oct 24, 2011 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand the exaggeration for point of effectiveness

But I do bristle when people claim they could do ANYTHING against a professional athlete at their sport.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 24, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I could

get beat into submission against a professional athlete. I’m not sure, but there might be crying involved. I’d rather not find out.

"'Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." - Lewis Caroll, Alice Through the Looking Glass

by chitownhawkeye on Oct 24, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would most likely bleed

and whimper a lot as well

"Sometimes the truth gets in the way of a good story" - KF

by The Bacon Explosion on Oct 25, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you understand the exaggeration for point of emphasis,

why bother bristling? If I’d have said “I seriously could take him”, yeah, I could see you bristling. He’s 6’5", 300 pounds, I’m 6’1" 225. I might get lucky once (out of maybe 50-60 tries) and speed by him, but that would be it.

"No I'm not going to 'limber up'. You ever see a lion stretching before it takes down a gazelle?"

by Swarley on Oct 25, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's an involuntary reflex. No harm meant toward you in bringing it up.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Oct 25, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Aaaaaand, one step too far

by txhawkeye on Oct 24, 2011 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like a new BHGP slogan!

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Oct 24, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Please

Bukkake is a BHGP meme. Maybe an old one, but I’m hardly the first to go there.

by PackerHawk on Oct 25, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Does anyone think a part of Morris's poor play this year

Is trying too hard to be ‘the man’ on D?

The University of Iowa: the best 6 years of my life. My parents are very proud.

by HawkeyeGirleye on Oct 25, 2011 12:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Could be. Of course the run D is kind of designed to make him "the man"

The D-Line should take up all the 5 or 6 O-line blockers, leaving the Mike LB free to shoot the gap and get the tackle at or behind the LOS. This D-Line isn’t eating their blockers quite as well as past incarnations, so Morris may be fighting off blockers more than he’d like. I can’t say I’ve studied film close enough to know that’s how it’s going down, it’s just speculation on my part.

I’m also reminded of comments made about Jacody Coleman a few years ago. If I recall, Coleman was an ultra-high-energy LB who, when he got in, made about 50% awesome plays and was out of position the other 50%. Norm said something to the effect that he prefers mistakes being made at full speed to playing tentatively because you don’t know where to go. Maybe Morris is in that same style; Jacody transferred before he totally “got it,” but I bet Morris just needs to get up that learning curve. He has been here a while now, so hopefully it happens sooner rather than later.

"Hi, I'm Bob Executive. Which way to business?"

by IPeeBlackAndGold on Oct 25, 2011 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Refresh my memory on Coleman's departure

He got stuck behind Angerer, right? He would’ve been a senior last year, which would’ve helped that squad immensely. He was pretty stout against the run. It seemed like the plays where he was out of position were primarily passing situations (hence, Angerer taking the top spot on the depth chart in 2008).

Hopefully it’s a case of Morris making the full speed mistakes as opposed to half-speed because he doesn’t know where to go. That’d be a concern. Seems like he’s always got a blocker on him (pointing to defensive line inconsistency). When he’s not fighting a blocker, it looks like he takes really bad angles and reaches a lot – over or under-runs a play and therefore reaches for a lot of tackles, like he’s always in arm-tackle mode. You never saw that from Angerer, Edds, even Hunter – they wrapped up well and took good angles on the ball.

And I’d guess playing on one good ankle doesn’t help. The only place where we’re healthy defensively is with the defensive backs – DL and LB are just banged up right now, which also isn’t helping in the consistency department.

Comedy is where the mind goes to tickle itself.

by Nickhawk08 on Oct 25, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

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