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The proprietor of this website is an (alleged) 9 year veteran of the NFL and the owner of a west coast crossfit gym. This was sent to me by a co-worker who belongs to a crossfit gym and said that they actually had this chart posted in their bathrooms.

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I may print and paste that up in my bathroom

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Jan 29, 2011 12:18 AM CST reply actions  

Um, what the fuck just happened there on that site?

Did that guy just basically call the 13 Iowa players pussies?

“When I saw the workout of 100 BS and 100 yards sled drag, I was more embarrassed for the kids that they were not in shape enough to survive.”

Was I supposed to read the entire article and comments out loud with an overly arrogant Austrian accent? Whatever that site was, I feel dirtied (and a bit scared) after having visited it.

/shuddersandchecksdoortomakesureitslocked

by HawkeyeRecon on Jan 29, 2011 12:31 AM CST reply actions  

Thanks for posting this comment.

I was wondering how long it would take for somebody to jump all over the guy for giving his opinion. He’s a former pro-football player and owns a Cross Fit gym. Do you really expect him to take much of a different stance? Also, he didn’t call them pussies, he said they might have been out of shape. Is it really too hard to not turn his admittedly tough assessment into a hyperbolic statement assailing the athletes? Apparently so.

I give him credit for giving his opinion, and basically saying that the players and coaches are likely at fault. Given he has no relationship to the program, he seems to have given a relatively balanced assessment of what players and coaches could and should have done differently.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 12:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think he understood...

…that the squats were being done with 250 pounds (or half of a player’s max), 100 in less than 20 minutes (Poggi’s was something like 240 pounds, 100 in seventeen minutes). And then they had to do sled work. I wouldn’t call a player who could do that “not in shape.”

And even if he did know, he’s an asshole for saying it, and perpetuating the idea that a “real man” pushes himself beyond his physical limits.

"Apparently, riding Joe Paterno like a small horse is FROWNED UPON IN THIS ESTABLISHMENT!"

by The Director on Jan 29, 2011 8:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Addendum: I just read the article, and he DID know it.

Actually, I agree with most of his points except the “not in shape” comment. He comes off as an ass for it. Seems like “piling on” to me.

"Apparently, riding Joe Paterno like a small horse is FROWNED UPON IN THIS ESTABLISHMENT!"

by The Director on Jan 29, 2011 8:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think a "real man" has to push himself beyond his physical limits

But I also know from my own very amateur weight and triathlon days that sometimes you have to push beyond them, the question is how far. It’s also difficult in the moment to know where your perceived limit is and where your actual limit is.

I’m sorry, but the notion that not pushing your physical limits is unnecessary simply doesn’t produce elite athletes. Ask Lance Armstrong (we won’t talk doping yet) ask Usain Bolt, Urlacher, etc. I’ve exceeded my physical limit, and all I got out of it was a 5min seizure from dehydration and Potassium deficiency. When I recovered I was in better shape. If I hadn’t exceeded that limit I wouldn’t have known my actual boundaries and I aslo wouldn’t have found out I could push myself beyond my mental limitations.

I also think that IF it turns out that there’s a correlation between athletes who didn’t follow the training regimen over break/did activities over the weekend they shouldn’t have, then they do have some culpability in their own conditions. I’m not being an ass, but we don’t know yet what the time limit was (we claim we do, but we don’t have a definitive answer yet), all we know is the extreme speed some athletes did it in. Hopefully the report pieces out why they did it so fast.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 9:11 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I lift weights on a regular basis

And squatting half your max (the specific weight doesn’t really matter, half you max is half you max, but would probably be close to 160 for me) is not really a ridiculous workout. I wouldn’t do it in 17 minutes, but I probably could without expecting any major physical repercussions beyond the obvious soreness.

by Schubial on Jan 29, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I mostly just didn't like that one line.

I read parts of several other articles though and the general “work your body to extreme failure” seemed masochistic and irresponsible and kind of creeped me out.

by HawkeyeRecon on Jan 29, 2011 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Work your body to the point of muscle failure is a truism of building muscle mass and strength

The issue is the line between “total muscle failure” and “extreme failure”. You may feel it’s masochistic and creepy, but all bodybuilding is causing damage to muscle fibers and when done correctly they heal stronger, bigger, etc. So you could say all lifters and athletes are masochistic because they constantly push themselves beyond their limits and intentionally damage their bodies with almost every workout.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 9:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Working to failure is bullshit

it’s old-school dogma that simply isn’t true. It’s one of the reasons I fucking loathe Crossfit. They basically further the idea that a workout is worthless unless you’re laying on the floor unable to move at the end.

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

by Brock8144 on Jan 29, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok

Honest question. There isn’t a need to ever work a muscle group to failure? I understand not going crossfit ape shit, but what about bicep curls to exhaustion and then extra rest?

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 10:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I believe HFMR has a similar stance to PackerHawk on the subject

However, I don’t know that for sure since, as far as I know, he hasn’t had a definitive comment on the subject yet. It appears he’s waiting for info and waiting to decide how he feels about a touchy subject before making strong or broad statements.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 29, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, he's definitely being more tightlipped than I

I’m trying to withhold judgment on this specific scenario, while maintaining that “extreme” workouts don’t have to be eliminated. And by withhold judgment, I mean speculating as to possible causes, with a full mind that my speculations are just that and don’t form a basis for a call to action.

Do extreme workouts need to be more carefully planned and executed by participants and trainers using the knowledge gained by studying cases like this? Probably. Eliminated altogether? No. We haven’t banned football because of concussions or spinal injuries, but we have changed the approach to protective gear and treatment. Using knowledge to modify practices should is, in my opinion, the wise move. Banning things because of statistical anomalies isn’t. Given the rarity of these outbreaks, they qualify as statistical anomalies, so just remember how I feel about arguing from anecdotes before you get huffy about the 13 young men in this case. Try to imagine the thousands of individuals who have done extreme workouts and realize how relatively rare rhabdo is.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 10:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

My knowledge is statistics is limited to sports and ...

the Freakonomics books. Are you saying the root cause of this incident might be a variable we have not yet identified?

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Jan 29, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I am...

Mainly why I can’t really form an opinion on all of this. I think were missing some big pieces to the puzzle still.

by RonMaDon on Jan 29, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

That could be, and I think that may come to light

But what I’m saying here is that we shouldn’t look at this as “OMG 10% of Iowa’s roster got rhabdo from an extreme workout so we should ban all extreme workouts”. I’m arguing that, even considering the OR and SC cases, the percentages of athletes who do “extreme workouts” as part of a supervised S&C program and get rhabdo is probably so small that it doesn’t merit the prohibition of these workouts.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks.

And by the way, you post/comment well/humorously, too.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Jan 29, 2011 12:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Dude

those have got to HURT on their way out

It never gets to be easy.
Why the fuck doesn't it ever get to be easy?

by chitownhawkeye on Jan 29, 2011 1:07 AM CST up reply actions  

It was worse to do the squats and the blocking sled drills...

with the rhinestones still in my bladder.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Jan 29, 2011 1:14 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You've probably been listening to Rhinestone Cowboy on repeat too much if that's the case.

"I'm gonna give you assholes a chance. What do you say we play a little Bangkok Rules?" ~ Snake Plissken

by The Bird Cult on Jan 29, 2011 7:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Fact: I had to line-dance to "Rhinestone Cowboy" repeatedly in high school in PE class.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Jan 29, 2011 10:25 PM CST up reply actions  

We threw in a lil' Billy Ray too.

Main reason why I still can’t listen to country music.

by RonMaDon on Jan 30, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Also, the comments are messed up

Someone said 20+ Iowa players failed their drug test.

…..

by Xarin on Jan 29, 2011 8:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Noticed both of those

I also responded to the 20+ rumor, just waiting for the mod to approve it still.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 9:13 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I noticed that.

I reacted the way I always do (with my two best friends).

So what if I tailgate to the NPR jazz station?

by hkobb7 on Jan 29, 2011 11:54 PM CST up reply actions  

The difference I see between Johnnie and a lot of other people spouting off

He is willing (perhaps too willing) to point out that participants and trainers bear some responsibility. At least his opinions are more level headed (even being meat headish in approach) then much of what we’ve seen with the media who have even less experience with rhabdo than Johnnie.

I’m sure that a MD such as yourself is annoyed when a mere trainer voices his opinion on a medical journal. But he’s entitled to his opinion and the double edged sword of the internet is that so many people get to share them. Then again, the first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, but not freedom from criticism.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 10:31 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

He didn’t just voice his opinion Packer. He insinuated that he’d been there all the time and gutted it out.

I’ll repost the quote. “Sounds like the majority of our training days in college and all the NFL games.”

He then uses that as a launching pad to outline how much better prepared he was for workouts and how underprepared the Iowa players must have been, going on to speculate about how many bars there are in Iowa City, etc.. While it may be true that a change in preparation by the Iowa team may have prevented this, his route to the conclusion is full of self-righteous and misguided BS. Sorry it was an overly complex argument for you.

Really have no idea where the medical journal aspect of your reply came from, so I can’t comment.

by VTHawk on Jan 29, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I read the article again and I concede the argument to you

I was overly focused on his conclusion and wrote off most of his “reasoning” as more speculation by people like us who weren’t there, but with more arrogance and machismo than most of the people on here. I just brushed it off and saw that he hit some of the potential causes that may have preceded or followed the workouts that some people seem to want to gloss over to go after Doyle and Ferentz (mostly not on here).

I have no idea what happened with the medical journal thing, I think I made an editing error on my phone when I was composing the post. I think I meant to type “medical issue”.

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Well Goddammit

You didn’t leave me anything to bitch and whine about!

by VTHawk on Jan 29, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

I asked a friend who's a MD that does a lot of sports med stuff

And also is an endurance training athlete that does serious weight work, and she does supplement work on the side. Her take is that creatine is the cause…

"I'm gonna give you assholes a chance. What do you say we play a little Bangkok Rules?" ~ Snake Plissken

by The Bird Cult on Jan 29, 2011 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh look a real journalist

and not some jackhole who posts knee jerk shock jock crap to get his name out there first

by IrishHawkeye7 on Jan 29, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Jackhole? I like butthorn.

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Jan 29, 2011 4:50 PM CST up reply actions  

THE TWITTERS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!

Because, really, what more reliable method could there be than a format that worships instantaneous posting, without comtemplation, all the while limiting posters to 140 characters?

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Jan 29, 2011 8:23 PM CST up reply actions  

This should be green.

But not just green. GREEN.

So what if I tailgate to the NPR jazz station?

by hkobb7 on Jan 30, 2011 12:00 AM CST up reply actions  

For those who are outraged at the audacity of the Iowa training staff to overwork our athletes.

What were you saying at the end of the season when certain athletes appeared to be gassing at the end of games? Where have you been throughout the years when this staff has been lauded for it’s ability to take lesser talented athletes and turn them into All-Big Ten caliber players?

I fucking hate critics.

I suggest that those who want to be fans of Iowa football while criticizing every little aspect of it and the very people who turn out the product that you enjoy so much read a speech given by Teddy Roosevelt on April 23, 1910 “The Man in the Arena”.

It would seem to me that everyone would like for our athletes to be in superior physical condition to other teams while refraining from breaking PED rules and without exceeding the physical exertion that those teams are putting their athletes through in the training room.

If you are outraged at this latest incident from the Iowa football program then I suggest you start getting on your high horse when it comes to Iowa wrestling. Because they occasionally push the limits too.

by HawKCP on Jan 29, 2011 1:01 PM CST reply actions  

Man in the Arena is one of the best speeches ever given

And I applaud you a thousand times over for the reference

by IrishHawkeye7 on Jan 29, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I've said it all along

The timing of the workout is the biggest mistake. I guarantee they’ve done something similar on a yearly basis, but probably at a point where they have been training for a bit, so they aren’t completely detrained. Additionally, players are usually given at least a few weeks off post-season, so I would be surprised if they were expected to do much over break.

"There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy." -Mark Rippetoe

by Brock8144 on Jan 29, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

That's one part of the article that seemed pretty accurate
(Just for reference, every strength coach I have ever had from college and NFL, provided every athlete program to follow when they were away from the facility.)

They were given a program to do over the break. That much we can safely assume. Had the athletes appropriately followed their assigned regimen over the break this would probably have been appropriate. Obviously, the timing of the workout turned out to be a mistake but that’s not to say that the coaches were entirely at fault for that mistake.

by HawKCP on Jan 29, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know that you can say that

I linked an article in another thread where a triathlete dropped one sport where she would work out 2 hours at a time and started another sport working out 2 hours at a time and came down with it. This is one weird fucking affliction that some fucking anti-Iowa God has decided to add to their arsenal…

by Grixxly on Jan 29, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Did she swap one event for the other

With the different muscle groups involved and if she’s one of the swimmers who doesn’t kick much to save her legs I could see going from bike or run to swim could do that

by PackerHawk on Jan 29, 2011 10:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Brock: Glad to know you know more about exercise science than Mr. Doyle

I’ll refer further questions to you.

Seriously, armchair quarterbacks on both sides need to calm the fuck down. I wish more people (including media reporting on the subject) were taking the level-headed approach I’ve liked in PackerHawk, rockyh, and LeubkeSwims, among others. I thought the article was pretty good at this as well. He kinda saw it from both sides without pointing too many fingers, leaving room for final judgment when more info or conclusions came out.

I spent half my life's earnings on wine, women & song. The other half I wasted.

by therealCatnuts on Jan 29, 2011 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Answers Some Questions About My Own Bout With Rabdo

I’ve benefited from this whole episode in a personal way because now I know a lot more about an instance of my own. Back in high school in Oregon, way back in the 70s, I still remember the shock of seeing red pee. It happened during the height of Cross Country season when running a hard 10 miles was nothing. Back then, we never gave a thought about “staying hydrated”, and in other sports like football and wrestling it was a sign of weakness to want water. My doctor was mystified, but lab tests indicated muscle fiber. The treatment? — lay-off for a few days. Bottom line, in my case it wasn’t an instance of not being in shape, rather it was other factors probably related to pushing particularly hard, lack of water and maybe dietary factors. I’d guess this malady has occurred fairly often but with much less fanfare.

by Space Hawkeye on Jan 29, 2011 7:26 PM CST reply actions  

The first records of red pee were with Caesar's legions

Roman soldiers reported red/brown pee on long marches. Dehydration…

"I'm gonna give you assholes a chance. What do you say we play a little Bangkok Rules?" ~ Snake Plissken

by The Bird Cult on Jan 29, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Or Jupiter's wrath.

So what if I tailgate to the NPR jazz station?

by hkobb7 on Jan 30, 2011 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I just read that horrible Forde article and I remembered how much I hate him.

"As long as he behaves himself in this town, I ain't got no, ah...jurisdiction." - Link Appleyard, NCAA Compliance Officer

by ReadingRambler on Jan 29, 2011 9:01 PM CST reply actions  

Yes.

Someday, I hope he and Colin Cowherd are forced to fight to the death. And there is a draw.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Jan 29, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

And red pee, lots and lots of red pee

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Jan 29, 2011 11:40 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

WTF?!?!

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Jan 30, 2011 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

ugh, UGH

read the comments. 60% of them are “forde is full of crap” 15% is “forde is full of crap, but iowa still sucks/is worse than my favorite team” and 25% is “forde is full of crap, go HAWKS!”

by justsomehawkeyefan on Jan 30, 2011 2:41 AM CST up reply actions  

So you're saying he's a uniter not a divider?

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Jan 30, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

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