Defending Boise. Sort of.
by HoyaGoon on Sep 7, 2010 1:16 AM CDT
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PrintLet me begin by saying that when it comes to Boise State, no one has been more skeptical or dismissive of Boise State than I. My bona fides as a Boise-hater were well established last bowl season where, in the aftermath of people complaining about Boise and TCU being shunted off to the BCS kids' table I said (in only a rough paraphrase) "fuck 'em. They want to bitch and moan about not getting to play one of the 'big boys' in the BCS? Well boo-fucking-hoo. If this were the old Bowl Alliance these tiny, minor school after-thoughts wouldn't get into a BCS bowl if they bought tickets. You're not one of the big boys, you don't create the revenue or viewership, you're only here because the BCS was guilted into carving out an exception for you a few years ago and then you have the audacity to complain that the charity we extend wasn't exactly to your liking. Fuck off." Needless to say, I was less than sympathetic to the Boise cause and whether they belonged in the BCS at all.
Now, however, my attitude has changed. Slightly. I'll be the first to say that should Boise State go undefeated, they deserve a shot at the national title game. That is, of course, assuming that there are not two undefeated teams from two of the Big Six conferences. At the end of the day, Boise's schedule is (presumably) weaker than that of a major conference team and they should be held accountable for such. In a three-way (or more) tie of undefeateds, the odd man out is the one with the weakest schedule and, unless the season shakes out in completely unexpected fashion, that is Boise. But Boise has earned the right to be in the discussion.
Tonight's game was Virginia Tech was plain, old-fashioned, great football. Hard hitting and aggressively fought on both sides, with swings of momentum and the lead, it was everything great about college football. And it was an impressive win for Boise playing a virtual home game. One game does not a season make, but Boise played as tough, and probably tougher, a game as anyone else will play this season. The players and coaches of Boise State can't control who's on their schedule this season, they can only play who's next; and against Virginia Tech, Boise looked very impressive. Is Boise's schedule weak? Almost certainly so, but we won't truly know until the season plays itself out and we see just what the level of their, and everyone else's, competition is. Any supposition otherwise is at this point purely speculative. It's a new season and all preconceptions should be tossed out the window.
It's easy to hate Boise. And I think a lot of you have been turned off - deservedly so - by the mouth-breathing troglodytes from OBNUG that invaded these parts last December. Boise fan triumphalism is annoying, win one or two games and suddenly they think they invented college football (they're like nouveau riche SEC fans in that way). Having to interact with these fans created an understandable backlash against all things Boise State. But we should be wary of tossing out the baby with the bath water. Boise fans may be the worst thing to ever be subjected to the rest of the interwebz, but the team is not. Their coach seems like an earnest, good guy, the type of coach we need more of in college football; Chris Petersen has never been insistent or arrogant about Boise's worth or where they "deserve" to play, he only focuses on doing what it takes to win each game. The Boise players - with the exception of the kicker, seriously dude you have tribal tats YOU'RE A FUCKING KICKER, you aren't tough - seem to run the usual gamut of personalities and pros and cons that any college football team has.
This team is as deserving a shot as your Texases, Alabamas, USCs, aOSUs and the like. If they are one of two undefeateds at the end of the season, well then they've earned the right to play for the title. And, as fans of a school with limited resources relative to the heavyweights of college football, we should root for them as fellow Davids fighting a hierarchy of Goliaths.
Unless they're playing Iowa, in which case fuck them in the head.
Unless otherwise expressly indicated by BHGP editors, this FanPost is strictly the viewpoint of the author and is not endorsed by BHGP in any way.
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16 team playoff
Like they do in 1-AA. Conference champs of the 10 conferences and 6 at-large bids. Then all this SOS stuff is nullified, because you have to win 4 games against the best teams to hold aloft that shiny crystal football. Until then, Boise will have to prove it on the field, and Boise will not get that chance because they play in a shitty conference.
Yes I know there are 11 conferences currently. The WAC is about to implode though.
Side note: whoever ranked VT in the top 10 was high as fuck. That team looked poorly coached, inexperienced, and totally lost.
Brunettes not fighter jets
Not to be a dick
But VT was ranked 11th. But that is just on the cusp of the top ten. In hindsight, once the early season jitters worn off they played well. Most of the problems were fixed and had a bounce gone differently on some of the close plays they could still have beaten Boise. Boise was breaking in 2 new starters total, and i believe that VT was breaking in 10-12.
I learned a great many things in the Marines that helped me as a football coach. The Marines train men hard and to do things the right way, just as a football team must train. - Hayden Fry
by NileKinnickIronman on Sep 7, 2010 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
If you consider careless penalties, dropped balls and horrendous arm tackles as playing well...
then yes, you are correct.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Um, there was a little 10 next to their name on the screen all night last night...
…and Rocky is right, whoever put them in the top 25 was high as fuck. They won’t be sniffing the top 25 by season’s end (just like every year, or so it seems). They were emotional, out of control, reactionary and poorly coached. They gave BSU chance after chance to salt the game away (Was it just me or did that VT player go out of his way to pick up that roughing the kicker penalty? And then he stands there shrugging on the sidelines. YOU JUST SCREWED AMERICA, DON’T SHRUG!)
I hope BSU goes down to Oregon St after next week. They won’t have an entire off season to gameplan, so hopefully they get bounced and we can stop pretending they are a top 5 team. They are good, and well coached, but they just aren’t a top 5 team.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention
a one man offense (I can’t imagine they don’t have a better halfback) and the need to sell out just to get pressure on the qb. Virginia Tech is not the measuring stick they were made out to be. Nevertheless, I think Boise State spent a majority of the game getting outplayed by Va Tech.
VT has a terrific tailback
He just had very little running room. Boise shut him down
by GuttedSnowBird on Sep 7, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
They also don't have a QB.
Or at least, barely have a QB. Taylor was worthless as a passer.
I also can’t understand VT’s strategy on their final drive. They had 2 timeouts and opted for the homerun ball on all four downs instead of simply working their way down the field for the game-winning FG. D-U-M, dumb.
by The Mexican't on Sep 7, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
They need a TE
If Taylor couldn’t find a guy on a streak or the play wasn’t a preset screen he panicked. There were plenty of plays where the pocket collapsed a bit but he had time and couldn’t find anybody at mid range. With how Boise stacked the box, there had to be some quick hit routes open.
well as of today
Iowa’s best chance is for VT to drop out of the rankings…
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
You mean like a VT player pumping his chest after a tackle
but only after giving up a 14 yard-pass for a first down? Tech has been dancing just this side of an out-of-control program a la the U for years. Last night you saw a bunch of players who were more interested in making Sportscenter highlights than winning the game (and a couple on Boise as well). This idea that Beamer is a good guy is one of the biggest myths in college football, his program has been shady for years but it gets swept under the rug.
On a side note, can you imagine how long an Iowa player would ride the pine if he acted half as flamboyantly as a lot of the Tech players?
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Yup. I figured it was Boise's after the first quarter.
VT started to look competant when they finally scored, but seeing all of that idiocy while a goose-egg sat on the board, and with Beemer’s play calling, I knew (felt pretty damn confident, and not in a good way) that B.S. U was gonna get fellated at the end of the game.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
VT end of year ranks last 10 years (AP)
2000 – #6
2001 – #18
2002 – #18
2003 – (not ranked)
2004 – #10
2005 – #7
2006 – #19
2007 – #9
2008 – #15
2009 – #10
So 9/10 on finishing in the Top 25.
And I don’t know what you guy saws that leads one to believe that this is an “out of control” program. I remember the isolated incident in last night’s game where the DB started running his mouth after about a 15-yard gain. It was distasteful, but that kind of stuff happens all the time. They gave scholarships to both of the Vicks – we gave a scholarship to Dominique Douglas.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 7, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me give you a breakdown of every Tech season, ever
Win against 6-7 crappy teams
Beat 2-3 equal teams, including one team that is “better”
Lose at least 1 non-conference game, usually to a vastly inferior opponent
Lose at least 1 game inexplicably
Lose to one of the other ACC leaders.
The result, 10-3 every year. Rinse wash and repeat.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
But we don't have "Beemer-ball" or any other nifty little bullshit thought up and/or repeated ad nauseum by the media...
…who act like they’re in love. We don’t have top flight recruits coming to us year in and year out (or did I not hear about how Vick narrowed his list to VT and Iowa). Instead we have guys on tWWL saying “I can’t wait for Iowa to lose.” That would be one big difference.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
Iowa belongs to the group of teams (we’re not alone) that the media can’t wait until they lose so it can be smugly declared we are “pretenders” and don’t belong. Tech is in another group where consistent, early stumbles are excused away until they win a big(ish) game whereupon they can be declared “back” or a “dark-horse title contender”. It’s infuriating.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I seem to remember one play last night
Where a VT player racked up 30 yards of penalties on three infractions. 1. running into the punter 2. illegal block in the back and 3. personal foul – late hit. I don’t think KF would stand for this as easily as Beamer lets it ride.
VT named their athletic building after Michael Vick but did kick Marcus off the team after he got caught with a 13 year old and pot, stomping on an opposing lineman’s leg and pulling a gun on a couple of people in a McDonald’s. Yes, we did give a scholarship to Douglas and took it away. It just appears to some that Coach Beamer tends to let this slide a little more than KF.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."
―Obi-Wan Kenobi
by The Bacon Explosion on Sep 7, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
They names their athletic building after Vick?
Oof. That’s why you usually want to wait until dudes are dead or old to do that.
I remember the play you are talking about. He got 20 in penalties – 5 for running into the punter, and 15 for a personal foul for decking him during the return when the punter wasn’t making a play on the ball. Should have been 30 – the running into the kicker shoud have been roughing. Regardless, that was more “dumb” than “thuggish.”
And saying that Beamer lets stuff slide more than Ferentz could be said for 90% of college football coaches – Wannstedt let a guy play this week that trew someone thru a plate glass door. Hell, Paul Rhoads is going to let David Sims play Saturday after his credit card drama. I can’t think of any incident like that off the top of my head with Beamer (although, I will allow that I wouldn’t be surprised to hear about one).
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 7, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't say they were thuggish (though I understand that reference with a comment about Da U)...
…I said they were “emotional, out of control, reactionary and poorly coached” and I stand by that. They could have controlled tempo, they could have used their advantages, but they fell into the same trap that Oregon did.
They came out to blast those little horseys back to Boise with their strength and speed, instead of coming out to play better football. That’s where a good coach takes control of his team and says, “Okay, what you are doing isn’t working. Let’s play some actual football now.”
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Very true
VT came out looking terrible, and I think part of that has to be the coaching.
Although after 1 quarter they DID say “Let’s play some actual football” and were the better team the rest of the way, but they had already dug their hole.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 7, 2010 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't say their program was out of control...
…I said the players were out of control. They didn’t keep their positions, they over-pursued, they ran into each other as they all tried to make the one-man play.
I’m not saying that VT won’t be a “Darkhorse” to win the MNC again next year, but unless Beemer figures out how to keep his players’ emotions in check, the result will be the same.
Also, I didn’t realize they finished top 25 quite that often, but imagine if they had started each of those seasons at # 20 or #24- – because pre-season ranking are based on hype- – would they have still been in the top 25 at season’s end? So have they earned those top 25 finishes, or were they the result of VT selling their team well?
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
True
I misinterpreted what you were saying then. My bad.
The overpursuit by VT’s defense last night was ridiculous.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 7, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
And I won't post the full data again
But over the same time span, VTs preseason ranking has been remarkably close to where they end up. Most of those years, within 5 spots.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 7, 2010 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions
If you look at their end of the year rankings
They are consistently the top one or two teams with their number of losses. Meaning if they have two losses they will be the highest ranked two loss team. It is impressive how consistent they are with this and I just don’t think all those years they were the best team with their record.
About Michael Vick Hall, they are kicking around the idea of changing the name but haven’t done so as of yet to my knowledge. Just a bad, bad idea even if he gave a truck load of money for it.
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."
―Obi-Wan Kenobi
by The Bacon Explosion on Sep 8, 2010 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair point
But I think this likely has a lot to do with scheduling the likes of LSU, Alabama and Boise State in their opening game. Dropping that game means that one of their two losses is
1) Against a premier non-con opponent
2) Occurs early in the year, granting full schedule inertia benefits.
Second – It’s still got his name on it?!?! How did I not know this?! Even if they don’t have a new name, they should just vacate the name like Reggie Bush’s Heisman and have a nameless building. That looks seriously bad.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 8, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Vick Hall
What do you expect from a program that out of control and filled with thugs with a coach who doesn’t care about anything but winning?
sarcasm’d
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."
―Obi-Wan Kenobi
by The Bacon Explosion on Sep 8, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
it seems like
the broadcasts generally choose, at random, what ranking to use until the BCS rankings come out
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
schedule arbitrage
There’s no way Boise State is in the mix for the BCS championship if they play a ‘real’ schedule, and I find it odd that because they beat VT they are somehow labelled legitimate contenders. Just the fact that, at 1-0, they are now considered in the mix tells you that no one thinks they play a decent schedule; people take their conference wins for granted. BSU doesn’t go undefeated in the Big East, let alone any of the other major conferences. The title talk is just schedule arbitrage. Name another conference where they would even be preseason conference favorites?
I love to watch them, though, and I think of Peterson as this generation’s Hayden Fry, in the sense that he doesn’t run a system so much as he runs plays (not my idea, see smartfootball.com), and he will innovate-and-surprise you to death.
VT is a strange team, filled with holes. I see them losing 3 or 4 this year. I also have issues with all the chest-thumping on that team. I love it when guys strut when they’re behind 17-0 in the first quarter. I guess there are bigger issues than the scoreboard to some of those guys.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
It's college football.
Michigan were legitimate contenders in the eyes of Matt Millen for about fifteen seconds last year.
"This is the last time we're going on the field tonight and we're going to bust our butts and stop them again and get this game over." - Mike Reid, 1970 Orange Bowl
by ReadingRambler on Sep 7, 2010 7:08 AM CDT up reply actions
The provlem in that setence
is the suggestion that Matt Millen’s opinion/analysis has any sort of legitimate, meaningful impact.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Have you seen some of the polls the AP guys crap out? I wish I could find that website…
by ReadingRambler on Sep 7, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, and some of coach's polls are even worse.
But the fact remains…
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
And Notre Dame
Is always a contender to that raging fucking douchetard Lou Holtz. He makes ESPN unbearable to listen to when he speaks. Especially about the golden domers, who he slobs on every year.
by imadirtyoldman on Sep 7, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
I couldn't agree more with this statement
Fine, Boise State won one game. Big fucking deal. They play in a joke of a conference. They play the JoJo school for the blind at least 4 times per season, and play the rough equivalent of jNW the rest of the time. Their top opponent, who they may play ONCE all conference season? On par with PSU this season (no offense, Rambler) — meaning a 3-4 loss B10 team at best.
Yeah, BSU won last night, but VT shot themselves in the foot a half-dozen times before BSU ever officially “won.” No blocked punt? No fumble on the snap? No late-hit penalty? Take each of those away, and VT likely wins. Those are all VT errors, not Boise State wins. I hate BSU, and last night did nothing to change that.
by imadirtyoldman on Sep 7, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but
Boise State is a compelling counterargument to the idea that the national championship picture/rankings are based only on that year’s data.
On the one hand, it seems obvious that this should be the case. Of course past years should be irrelevant. However, the BHGP BlogPoll ballot is a brilliant examination of the flaws in this logic. If one were to truly utilize only one year’s worth of dats, then all context surrounding the season must be removed.
Without looking to what Boise State has done since “arriving on the scene” in 2006, one would dismiss last night’s result as a “fluke.” Note that even that examination requires the necessary context the Virginia Tech is a perennial Top 25 team and that Boise State is not a “traditional power.”
Boise State running the table in 2006 does not earn them a sniff of the national chmpionship. Likewise if, say, Akron were to run the table in 2010, they would not sniff the national championship. Why? Context.
In context, we know that Boise State has completed other undefeated seasons. With each great performance, and with each successful season (even in the WAC) the sample size of results grows larger and it is progressively more difficult to dismiss Boise State as a fluke. Going 8-0 in the WAC once is not impressive (to me). Going 8-0 in the WAC repeatedly is impressive. Yes, this rewards this years Boise State team for the success of prior years, but at the end of the day, a college football season does not exist in a vacuum.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 7, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well Marv, let's look at your doppleganger, Regina Coach Marv Cook...
…his 2A team just took out newly 3A Solon on Friday (the first time Solon has lost in over 3 years). Last year Solon killed Regina the first time they met, and then stomped then the second time (in the playoffs). Yes, Solon lost our new stud James Morris (and Morris was a huge reason for Solon’s success, but not the whole reason), but they bumped up a division and their first game wasn’t a total blowout (they put up video game numbers last year, usually pulling their first team by halftime- – that’s not an exadgeration- – so this year’s team has some depth and experience) and they took a little more of a beating than last year. Week two, they fell victim to some timely special teams play by Regina and lost. The reason I bring this up is because by stepping up into 3A they are playing better teams, not dominating as much, and they didn’t take their 2A rival from recent years seriously (this isn’t the entire story of why they lost, but it’s a good case study). These are things that will happen to Boise should they make a step up to a real league.
Was it impressive that Solon dominated 2A for years? Hell yes. And dominate, they did (last year they beat a team 70-7, and some of the players were upset that the other team scored). Does any of that help when they play in a tougher league? Not a damn bit. They didn’t even lose to a 3A, but everything is different when you make that transition.
I know not all of this is relevant, and it’s not specifically to you Not Marv Cook (your name just reminded me), and my argument isn’t fully developed, but I think it’s a good illustration of how WAC vs. Real Conference makes a big difference in the long run.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Boise State going undefeated in the WAC
is like saying I am the tallest midget or the heaviest bullemic…and the fact they beat VT this year is great, now where are their 2-5 ranked opponents that many of the other big powers will have to face? Are you honestly telling me that if Iowa and Florida were to go undefeated that Boise State doing the same is in the same league?
No
But I’m saying it’s likely that Boise is as good (or better) than Iowa (or Florida) because we have evidence that, if they go 14-0 this year that they are not a fluke.
Iowa going 13-0 deserves a shot at a MNC over 13-0 BSU – but not because Boise State will not have “earned” it at this point.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 7, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
who have they really beaten though
have they consistantly beaten up on top ten schools? I think it is arguable that VT was overranked going into that game and that while they are a top 20 team they are not a top 10 team.
My point is that BSU consistantly beats up on teams similar or lesser than them…I think they are a top 25 program right now but just because they beat up on Iowa’s week 1 opponents doesnt make then the 3rd greatest team in the land.
In your patient stroll to defend BSU you missed a few things
That was not an impressive game played by either team. It was ugly, error-prone football. Boise did what it took to win. Namely, fuck up one fewer times than VT.
Boise played as tough, and probably tougher, a game as anyone else will play this season.
By tough, do you mean hostile? I guarantee that many, many teams will play in front of more hostile environments and with more disadvantages than what Boise faced against VT. Penn State in Tuscaloosa, any over matched cupcake in a 70k+ AQ stadium, etc. If I remember the attendance numbers correctly, there were 80k in a 91k stadium. And unlike a true road game, the BSU fans made up a sizable minority of the crowd.
I couldn't agree more.
I mean, sure, the majority of the attendance was VT fans and the place got very loud when Boise was on offense. But last I checked, the entire far side of the field was royal blue. It’s not exactly an away game when you have roughly 10,000+ fans in the first bowl and their chants are extremely audible when you’re playing well.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
As far as this discussion is concerened.
Nothing gives me greater pleasure than to think of the BCS big dogs sweating bullets only one week into the year thinking about what they are going to have to do if Boise runs the table.
I could give two fucks about Boise, and agree that schedule wise those players are gonna be obese by the end of the season feeding on the cupcakes in their own conference. But the side effect is that the people keeping a 4,8,16 team playoff from happening are the same people trying to work thorugh all of the scenarios that could play out if Boise is one of only two undfeateds at the end of the season.
Just as much as fuck Boiseand their goofy assholish fans, I say fuck the BCS establishment for allowing this to happen in the first place. Good for Boise for taking advantage of the rules and trying to crash the party. I is going to take this kind of shit for the powers that be to give a new system a hard and fast look. If Chris Peterson wins a National Title, I will enjoy watching it more than Dick Saban win another one.
I learned a great many things in the Marines that helped me as a football coach. The Marines train men hard and to do things the right way, just as a football team must train. - Hayden Fry
by NileKinnickIronman on Sep 7, 2010 8:05 AM CDT reply actions
Jesus I type too fast.
The last paragraph should read “It is going to take this kind of shit for the powers that be to give a new system a hard and fast look.”
I learned a great many things in the Marines that helped me as a football coach. The Marines train men hard and to do things the right way, just as a football team must train. - Hayden Fry
by NileKinnickIronman on Sep 7, 2010 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
As much as it pains me to say it
I would be much happier with a Boise championship game than another Big XII/SEC tilt.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
It is a myth that Boise will destroy the BCS
On the off chance that Boise makes the MNC game and wins it, expect that to lead to greater entrenchment on the current system. It will kill any argument for intervention by the federal govt…forever. It will become the most talked about MNC game ever and probably watched by as many or more people than have ever watched this game. It will show that everyone is truly able to play in and win the MNC so therefore, no need for a playoff. Sure, Iowa or Wisconsin or Miami or any number of teams from power conferences might get shut out ala Auburn but their whines will fall on deaf ears. Why? Because Boise will be tapped into a narrative that mirrors the American mythology that anyone can be (fill in the blank) if they just work hard and believe!
What is happening now and has been happening throughout the offseason is the PR set-up for a TCU or Boise to be in the game. That did not exist before now and would have led to an outcry. But now it will lead to more eyeballs for the networks and THAT IS WHAT COLLEGE FOOTBALL IS ALL ABOUT. See: Jim Delany
The sad truth of college football is it is not now, nor has it ever been about finding the best team in a system of fairness. It is the only NCAA sport at any level, mens or womens, that does not have a playoff. The only one. And it makes by far the most money for the NCAA.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
addendum
Boise is a lesson in swagger. They have proved that building a resume based purely on results is a myth. Sure they win often but unlike BCS teams their difficulty factor is always very low.
Look, they have a blue field for a reason (the MWC I believe is waiving their field color rule for Boise…like other conferences, the field must be green. Except for Boise). They use trickery (although to their credit they did the ultimate PR move by violating expectation last night and NOT using trickery…brilliant!) to get your attention. They are so fucking smart to play in the first big game of the year two years running. Last year and this year they were THE game, at night, on national TV. Losing was going to kill thier aspirations either way…but winning on such a stage only enhances it. To their credit they know this is maximizing your exposure. Virginia Tech now has 4 days to get ready for their next game (sure it is James Madison, a cupcake but coaches hate this sort of thing). They only agreed to this for the recruiting exposure and the money the Redskins offered them to move it to thier stadium. Well, it backfired. They were first game sloppy just as Oregon was last year and it cost them. Iowa knows a thing or two about first game sloppiness.
Look, when I was in college I always bought the first round of drinks…and made a huge deal out of it. Told everyone on the way to the bar I would being doing so. Told everyone on the way in. Told everyone once we were in…“Drinks on me! Order up boys!” Why? Because everyone remembers who buys the first round. No one remembers the subsequent rounds….“Okay, who’s up? I know Stoops got the first round. Who’s up now???” I rarely had to buy another round….the power of first impressions.
Boise is the most skilled PR team in America and it isn’t even close. And with the help of the adoring media they will ride this further than you think.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Okay, their PR's good.
Are they a good team?
Seems to me that they have to be a good team 3x a year, and they get 8 months and 60 days to prepare for two of the three. I just don’t know if they could be this good 12-13 times a year.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
I agree.
Unfortunately, under the current system, they don’t have to be this good 12-13 times a year and they only have to be this good 2-3 times a year.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Of course we don't know it's a given.
Here’s my point and then I’ll let this go: Boise State has now beaten several of the “big teams”. Trickery or not (And isn’t it OU’s fault for not being disciplined), they’ve won when respect was on the line. I only think when the time comes they deserve a shot too.
by ReadingRambler on Sep 7, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
That first sentence is meant to be "It's a given that we don't know." or something better.
by ReadingRambler on Sep 7, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course they deserve a shot! Yes, sir!
…in a system that is not interested in finding the best team the program with the most cleavage absolutely deserves a shot. I saw Survivor one season, the first. They always voted off the best players. College football is moving in this direction. ESPN would be happy to have a mediocre Notre Dame play for it all. Have Michigan limp into one of their bowl games. They can care less about Iowa or Wisconsin or Missouri or Rutgers even…or a whole host of teams that might achieve rare greatness.
But right now, this year, the greatest prize out there is a Boise State playing the National Championship game. It has nothing to do with deserve though it has to do with buzz and eyballs. Let’s please get that straight.
A program that has been playing Div. 1 football for 15 years, was a junior college not too long before that, and has gone 6-6 (I think) versus BCS conference teams in that time deserves nothing close to a shot at the National Championship game. If anyone deserves a shot, it is Rutgers. They are the oldest football team in college football. Or a service academy because they play with guys who will protect your freedom. Or Iowa because they do it the right way (that was for you Rambler). But a team that has the most modest academic expectations, plays 6 games a year against teams ranked outside the Top 100 and has to perform at most 3 times a year, deserves jack shit.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Always with you and the Rutgers!
Geez!
by ReadingRambler on Sep 7, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
We love our middle of the road Mid-Atlantic programs.
Which is to say… YOU ARE… PWNED STATE. :D
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure you can use the "modest academic expectations" point...
when the SEC continues to be the most talked about conference.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Georgia is a Tier 1 research institution
as is every SEC school. It isn’t even close. So that gives you a sense of Boise.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I suppose I phrased that wrong.
Wrong audience, too. I was attempting to take a shot at the perceived academic inadequacies of SEC schools, but that will only get me corrected here.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I know...
the gap though from SEC to Boise is massive. Whatever…I’m upset with their football cache, not their crappy English Department.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I really believe Boise may end up like Penn State.
“You have a football team the university is proud of. Now give us a university we can be proud of.” That was Joe in the 60s or early 70s.
by ReadingRambler on Sep 7, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you sure it was JoePa and not just George Lynn Cross?
I know he said that to the OK legislature in the 60s. Either way, PSU is a good university, probably on par with the football program if you put much stock in the prestige rankings (big, nasty can of worms).
I will say that I respect their walking of the walk.
Their on field play and controversial standing does its own PR, while Mack Brown and Urban Meyer flap their gums at every fucking chance they get.
Unfortunately for them, their mere existence is annoying, while Texas and Florida’s is an accepted evil at this point.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions
You know
if this was a question of them being #5 instead of #3 then why bother. Let them do thier thing. But this is a question of fairness and legitimacy. I don’t think they are Top 10. I really don’t. If today the so-called Top 10 programs played a conference schedule I believe they would limp in at last place, without any question in my mind. They could maybe, maybe and TCU would be 9th. They are NOT #3.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Precisely.
I found this over at OBNUG (ironic, considering they have a shit fit every time some one brings up their schedule). I think it’s pretty accurate, and begs the question of why they aren’t held to same standard as other top teams.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Good evidence of momentum behind Boise.
During Va Tech’s second to last possession, when it looked like they might win, Herbstreit was trying to say that even if Boise lost they have proven that they belong with the big boys.
Also, the talk of Boise courage at the end of the game was somewhat telling. As if, Boise State winning a road game is more compelling and challenging than a road game won by any other team.
There is a different narrative being played out for that team and they are judged on a different standard than other BCS teams.
That's because if they had lost the whole meme would have been lost and tWWL couldn't have made as much money...
…plus none of the pundits like to look like they’re wrong. In the final five minutes (when VT was up) the announcers were also saying that if VT held on that they should vault into the top 5. Really? With a win over Boise State?
The preseason rankings are crap, but the people who do the rankings give real weight to themselves. If VT beats BSU, then Boise was never a top 3 team, but somehow VT should get the credit for beating a top 3 team and somehow “vault” into the top 5? Where’s the logic there?
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the insidious nature of preseason rankings
Where everyone will say they don’t matter (Herbstreit among those), only to turn around and use them as a basis for why Team A’s win was so more impressive than Team B’s.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
If Boise plays for the MNC this year, Iowa should look into joining the MAC.
Because clearly a team’s weekly quality of competition doesn’t matter one bit.
Buck Foise.
America, you're looking good: handsome, free and tall.
by Close Shave America on Sep 7, 2010 10:51 AM CDT reply actions
Yeah, I bet Nebraska is really kicking themselves now...
…shoulda joined the WAC or MAC or Sunbelt. Dominate for three years (to build up cache) and then win 30 MNCs in a row.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
BSU facts
As of 2009, the university has over 70,000 living alumni. That is to say, a Kinnick Stadium of alumni.
It is the largest institution of higher learning in Idaho
Their basketball/other sports arena is called “Taco Bell Arena”
92% of BSU students live off-campus
The dance team is called the “Boise State Harvey Neef Mane Line Dancers”
Notable alumni (4):
Former WWE/current TNA pro wrestler Orlando Jordan
Porn star/porn producer Tera Patrick
Director Michael Hoffman
Steve Appleton, CEO of Micron Technology (based in Boise)
Brunettes not fighter jets
My favorite Boise State football fact (to prove how awesome their PR is...)
they have a stadium that hold 33,600 and last year, during thier historic run they sold it out fro 2 of 7 home games: Oregon and Idaho…and the Idaho sell out was thanks in large part to the Idaho fans (Oregon too really).
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Absolutely none of this matters
unless they beat your namesake’s team a few years ago. They have not had a significant bowl game since, except in name. Tulsa was driving for the win last year and blew up. The Fiesta Bowl I attended, because tickets were being given away, was as underwhelming a bowl game as I have ever attended. I have about 8 under my belt.
Look, BSU and Fresno get the kids who can’t academically qualify in the Pac 10. There are good players there, and I think the world of Chris Peterson (or “en”, don’t remember) and the way he coaches his team. But I have never seen a football team continue to get as much juice off of one football game as has BSU.
The PR’s great, but it doesn’t have weight but for that one game. I’ll call it the triumph of opportunism. To me it’s not swagger if you still have to complain about inequity to get ahead.
In Norm we trust.
And I'll even give equal time
to the one legitimate argument of inequity that I think Boise has. I beleive that smaller-conference schools, particularly Western schools, still must overcome the regret that 50-somethings football types still have to this day on allowing neighbor BYU to win the national championship in 1984. Not as big a deal anymore, but it’s still out there.
In Norm we trust.
I liken them to 84 BYU, a lot.
Opportunity knocked.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know that BSU's still riding high as a result of their Fiesta Bowl win over OU.
Since then they’ve defeated 4 (?) other top 10 teams. They’re earning their keep, but I don’t know that they’re the #3 team in the country. I respect the program, it’s the fans that drive me nuts.
by The Mexican't on Sep 7, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
No question that
Continuing to win has kept them at a higher level, but I don’t think we’re talking NC game without OU. We wouldn’t have Utah and Hawaii in a BCS bowl without it, either.
What does set them apart, at least a little, from, say, Utah (though that will be gone with Utah joining the Pac, is that they are entertaining to watch. Still, like my beloved and entertaining Suns, that doesn’t translate to an “arranged” NC game
In Norm we trust.
by Mr. Grizz on Sep 7, 2010 2:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Top 10 at the BEGINNING of the year, and TCU.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 7, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
They smoked Oregon last year, and Oregon won the Pac-10 last year.
Face it, they have a good team.
by houksyndrome on Sep 8, 2010 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
+1 on both counts. They had some DB troll who came here last year talking a bunch of smack as I recall
Their team keeps beating good teams, though, and it’s impossible to not respect that.
by houksyndrome on Sep 8, 2010 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't want Boise State in the national championship
but the BCS probably does. It validates the system, letting them say “See? Everyone has a chance with this system!” Another year of an undefeated Boise State shut out of the NC is another step closer to a playoff.
very true
even though BSU doesnt deserve to be in the nat champ with their schedule
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
seriously
there are 8 people in America who honestly believe that Boise State could beat every other football team out ther every time…they need to have their voting privileges taken away.
BSU is a joke – they scheduled two ranked teams to their non-con schedule and think that running the tables with that schedule should put them ahead of any other team running the table? Take a look at Iowa – Arizona (actually at Arizona) as its non-con key matchup and then 4 ranked teams from there…if Bama’, BSU and Iowa go undefeated and Iowa gets pissed on then I will change my no-playoffs stance immediately.
I Love Larry - Brick are you looking at random things around the room and saying that you love them - I Love Larry
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
There's zero probability
that we would be bounced in favor of Boise if we run the table. It simply can’t happen with the schedules that each to possesses respectfully. The question is… if Iowa loses a tough game on the road to an improved Michigan team but runs the table after that, do they get in despite Boise being undefeated? That’s the real situation here.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
The computers would love us so much more than BSU, and by that point in the season if we were undefeated the human polls would have us somewhere beween 1 and 3 which wouldn’t be enough of a difference from BSU to have them ahead of us. See last year when the human polls had us 7 and the computers had us 1, the BCS had us at 4 for that combo.
"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable
by ClaybornSmash on Sep 7, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You both need to look at last year
if Texas loses to Nebraksa then TCU plays for the MNC…over an undefeated Cinncy and of course an undefeated Boise. TCU’s signature win? Clemson, BYU and Utah. So if Ohio State gets beat up in the conference (loses to us and Wisky) and Wisconsin drops a dummy game and Boise is #2 in the human poll that might be a hill we cannot climb. Particularly if our signature win is against a #9 Ohio State at home on a late FG in a boring defensive slugfest.
We have arrived at a point where winning every game in a stiff league guarantees you nothing really…well, maybe the Rose Bowl. And you know, Delany can care less. The presidents can care less. If the quan is flowing they are tickled pink. It is us who are left scratching our heads asking, “Is this all an exhibition?”
College football is getting closer and closer to boxing or MMA…it is just entertaining match-ups.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
If we're undefeated, we'll be in.
If we’re not, there is no way to jump them. Boise is basically hoping there aren’t 2 undefeated teams from the Big 6. As long as that holds, and obviously they don’t drop one, their pre-season ranking puts them in.
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Sep 7, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
The key part of that
is that it’s Cincy. Their schedule wasn’t all the impressive either, and when they did play strong teams they often just squeaked by (the exception being Oregon State in Corvallis). Their defense was extremely atrocious at times, too, and I think the computers really took away points for that. One could make a strong case that most year the Big East doesn’t deserve to be an AQ, but that’s not really the point. There really is very, very few ways this Iowa team could run the table and not be a shoe in for the title game if they were tied with Boise and Alabama at the top.
by Smokin Herb Grigsby on Sep 7, 2010 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions
A good measure of the quality of talent in a program
Number of players at the next level.
Boise State has 11, which places them squarely between Kansas (8) and Kansas State (14).
Which is to say, they’re perennially as good as a BCS team on paper, but not as good as a good BCS team. If they played in the old Big 12, they might win the north division once or twice a decade.
Brunettes not fighter jets
And yet...
at the college level, and you can certainly argue this for Iowa, what is more important is the quality of coaching. Boise, like Iowa, won’t get top-rung players every year, so if they are constantly winning, even in the WAC with an occasional “big boy” game, they are clearly being very well coached. You need a few upper echelon guys, but a well-coached team of good, not great, players can win consistently. It’s the story of us over the last three decades, and, at a different place, at a different level, with commensurately more wins, you can say the same for Boise.
In Norm we trust.
Iowa currently has 33 players on NFL rosters
Florida, Georgia, LSU, Miami, Michigan, Ohio State, Tennessee, Texas, and USC are the only schools that have more.
Brunettes not fighter jets
Again, coaching
How many of our 33 were considered potential pros when they showed up? How many of BSU’s?
Iowa plays a standard, no-gimmicks pro-set offense and standard, no-gimmicks defense. Boise does not, and to win consistently (as opposed to, say, Fresno State) they pull stuff out of their nether reaches at times to make it all work. Doesn’t make them a lesser team, though probably not as talented, or for your point, set up for the next level. Iowa prides itself on getting guys ready for the next level, and it’s our best recruiting tool. BSU, I’m sure, doesn’t worry about that. We don’t get the respect because of lack of depth. BSU probably has the same problems, but its overshadowed by their weak schedule.
I don’t mean to say that BSU would win like it has in the Big 10 or Big 12. In fact, I think they would wear down in the Big 10, but I’d say they would contend for the top of the Big 12 North most years. Again, they are coaching their brains out up there. I frankly have grown tired of the BSU hype, and I dread the prospect of another BYU-type situation. But I do believe they deserve credit for what they have done, and how well they perform despite not having a bunch of top-rung players. They wouldn’t survive a full schedule in a conference with physical play, but they are good enough in a one-game, one-shot situation to scare or beat a big-conference champion. Do they deserve that? Maybe in a BCS game, but not the NC game.
In Norm we trust.
Let's look at that.
I’m not talking about when they showed up. I’m talking about when they leave. 11 pros is the output of Boise State’s program, same as 33 is the output of Iowa’s. Coaching, or natural talent, or whatever.
Let’s look at those schools that I named above, with more pros than Iowa
Florida, USC, and LSU have won or shared at least two national championships in the last decade. Texas won one in ‘05. Tennessee in ’98. Miami in ’01. OSU in ’02 (by beating Miami). Michigan won one in ’97. Georgia is the only one in the list that hasn’t won a national championship.
Now let’s look at schools that aren’t on that list that have won national championships in the last 15 years (there’s 4 of them)
Alabama – 26 in NFL
Nebraska – 28 in NFL
Florida State – 28 in NFL
Oklahoma – 28 in NFL
Double rainbow! What does mean? OH GOD
It means that every team in the last 15 years to win a national championship had a period of sustained success because they had elite talent (be it recruited or developed) to compete week-in and week-out with other great programs.
BSU has won 5 of their last 6 vs BCS-conference competition… but is only 7-13 overall vs BCS schools.. over the last 16 years.
In the timeframe that all the schools above have won national championships, BSU has played 2 seasons worth of games against the same competition (but few of the elite talent schools). To me, it is far too small a sample size, and even if they go undefeated this year, it doesn’t really equate to them deserving a shot at the title by any metric that considers the context in which they go undefeated.
Brunettes not fighter jets
I think this is getting confused
My point isn’t that BSU deserves an NC game. I agree with you and have always said they do not. My point is that the hyperbole talking them down is overstated as well, nearly as much as the hyperbole propping them up (Feinstein just joined in on it now.) Of course they lost in the last 16 years, because they’ve only been consistently good in the last 4 years. I think they could succeed in an ACC or a Big East, maybe a Pac 10, though not in, for example the Big 10. The RichRod experiment is not on point exactly, but illustrative at least. Would they win those conferences? No. Again, they are, however, a dangerous one-shot, one-game team for anybody. In my opinion, that’s not enough for the NC game. Enough for a BCS game? It’s not easy keeping them out when they win their big-stage games, go undefeated, no major conference champion is left out and the other BCS games are of no consequence in determining a champion. Deep down I still say no but objectively, I have trouble arguing them out. And yes, I would have been screaming like everybody else if BSU got the last spot over us last year.
Reliance on NFL players is an indicator, absolutely, and that’s why BSU couldn’t be dominant in a major conference. Still, you don’t have the four-year record Boise has without great play, particularly in the spotlight games over the last four or so years, from great college players who are not NFL-types. Again, this is a one-shot, one-time sort of team. I’m guessing their QB, a great college QB, is not a pro QB. Same thing for their backs and receivers. With their non-pro style offense, they don’t need to be. We’re not talking about the building of a dynasty.
BSU is a mid-conference team with one gigantic bowl win which has made the most of its opportunities. Their record in spotlight games over the last four years is tremendous, and they also have something like 20 of 22 starters back from a pretty good team last year. I don’t think I have illusions as to what they are not. Just as well, I don’t think I have any illusions as to what they are.
In Norm we trust.
At least 3 of those were walk-ons who got drafted in 2003, 2004 and 2005...
…Clark and Sanders were both Class of 2004 (Dallas left early), and Considine was class of 2005. That’s just three from (basically) the same years. I wonder how many other walk-ons from Iowa have played in the NFL.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Sep 8, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, I had no idea we were 10th in # of guys sent to the NFL.
That is really impressive.
by houksyndrome on Sep 8, 2010 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Lost in the shuffle
is the fact that we actually had a “must-watch” college football game last night. I’m pretty sure the Vikings and Saints play each other in an NFC Title Game rematch week 1 of the NFL season…and it’s worth tuning in to…but there really aren’t “must-watch” NFL games until the playoff races start to shake out…and even then you don’t really feel cheated when you miss game until the playoffs.
The current BCS game makes the regular season infinitely more interesting…all that a playoff accomplishes is guaranteeing Boise a spot in the playoff because even with 1 loss they’ll be in and it makes the regular season largely irrelevant.
There are a lot of merits for a playoff…I know…but I don’t think it’s worth the trade off of what it will do to regular season football. Plus…how often have we really not had the 2 best teams in college football playing for the National Championship?
by HawKCP on Sep 7, 2010 7:14 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Not had the 2 best teams?
That’s hard to say, since it’s so easy to put #3 past the MNC loser in hindsight.
Here’s a few off the top of my head:
01-02 – Nebraska gets blown out in the regular season closer, doesn’t even win the BigXII North, and still stays ahead of Oregon and Colorado as Miami’s sacrificial MNC opponent.
03-04 – USC still claims the AP title, even though it was a component of the BCS system then. But regardless, they didn’t make the MNC.
04-05 – Did Auburn or OU really deserve to be USC’s lamb for the MNC?
08-09 – Who the hell were the two best teams that year? Maybe USC-TX would have actually featured the best 2 teams in the country.
So four out of the last ten years are up for debate, not a great track record.
OK but,
How often have we not had the two best teams playing in any other sport?
Outside of the NBA – virtually every year.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 8, 2010 6:25 AM CDT up reply actions
the argument of best team is always
digestible when those who are among the best have an opportunity on the field to prove it. I don’t hear anyone crying for Kansas in last year’s NCAA tournament. They lost. End of story. Where college football is at now is equivalent to an NCAA basketball postseason where — for example — last year we have 31 exhibition games and then just place Butler in championship game with Duke. Just put them there. No play in. Nothing.
Butler having played their way into that game is infinitely more digestible (and the same is true of Duke because I thought Duke was overrated going in) than if we just placed them there based on some notion of deservedness.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I agree with everything you just said
It’s a matter of personal preference really, and I love your use of “digestible” – I think that nails it.
The BCS and MNC, as presently constructed, is more digestible to me than the NCAA tournament, in which a 3rd or 4th place team can win 6 games and claim a title.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 8, 2010 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions
That's interesting
you are one of the few guys I have heard proclaim a huge difference between a team ranked 1 or 2 and a team ranked 4th. Last year Ohio State was ranked 8th…you don’t think they could have run the table. I would say they would have been the favorite really. They would have beat Bama and Texas IMO.
Look, I don’t think a playoff is coming any time soon. I don’t even see a post bowl season four team playoff coming. I think the system is far away from that happening. Too much money and now that ESPN is slowly taking over college football bowl season they would do all they could throughout the year to undermine it. The whole Boise PR is to entrench the current system in fact. Make it seem fair and equitable. ESPN knows that constructing the story makes for compelling TV. Take that away and you have a far less valuable product.
That is why most of my posts have been for Iowa to assume a more agressive PR stance, so they can have a fighting chance when the “selections” are made.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Sorry,
I should have clarified. I meant 3rd or 4th in their conference.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 8, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Ah....well, those teams will not see the light of day in a playoff...
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
True
but a very plausible scenario (even in a 4-team playoff) is 13-0 Ohio State beats 11-2 Nebraska in both the regular season and BX Champ. Game. 11-2 Nebraska could absolutely get into the playoff.
That violates my sense of justice more than the worst case scenario in the current system.
"Jack Trice Stadium - Easily one of the Top 10 Stadiums in Central Iowa"
by Not Marv Cook on Sep 8, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Also...
People keep saying that if we go undefeated we have nothing to worry about as far as Boise St keeping us out of the NCG. Keep in mind…they are ranked ahead of us in every human poll (which makes up 2/3 of the BCS criteria). At what point do we jump them?
Common logic would say that it would happen after the OSU game…but what if OSU pulls a 2009 Purdue (or even loses to Wisconsin or PSU) and comes into that game around #10? Obviously if OSU is #1 and we’re #3 or #4 we’d probably jump Boise St…but that means that as long as we stay undefeated we need to cheer for OSU to stay undefeated as well. Keep in mind that if you think we’d jump Boise St after the OSU game…Boise will most likely be at least #2 heading in to that point in the season…and that late in the year there will certainly be lots of talk every week about the possibility of Boise St playing for the NC…it would be a pretty big deal for Iowa to jump them at point and keep them out of the NCG.
It’s fairly likely that either someone from the B12 or SEC with more cache than Iowa will go undefeated…so we’d likely be competing with Boise for the 2nd spot in the NCG…I’m just not sure when we jump them.
I’m not saying…I’m just saying.
Human polls are 2/3 of the criteria
The point is, if there are 3 undefeated teams of which Iowa and BSU are among them, we will be at minimum 3rd in the human polls and at minimum 2nd in the computer polls. The odds that BSU is ahead of us in both the human and computer polls is not likely. They might still be above us in the BCS poll if they are ahead of us in the human polls, but they can’t be ahead of an undefeated Iowa team in the computer polls which will even out the BCS (this assumes that the computer polls are going to put BSU ahead of a one loss BCS conference team).
All I’m saying is that Iowa wouldn’t need to be ahead of BSU in the human polls in order to leapfrog them in the BCS poll.
"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable
by ClaybornSmash on Sep 7, 2010 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
"I’m just not sure when we jump them."
I know the answer to this question: when polls come out after the Nov. 20 games.
Assuming that both Boise St. and Iowa are undefeated, that’s when it would happen. On Friday, November 19, BSU plays Fresno St. On Saturday, Nov. 20, Iowa plays Ohio State. If Iowa is undefeated prior to Nov. 20, and beats Ohio State, Iowa will jump Boise State. Iowa will have already beaten Penn State and Wisconsin. Beating Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin? That’s a national championship resume.
We want to build a university our football team can be proud of. -- Dr. George Lynn Cross
All that I am saying
is that it’s no guarantee that we would jump them…Boise St has a lot of momentum in the media right now…if they were able to maintain this level of media attention it would be awfully difficult to jump them because at that point in the season the question of whether Boise St should be in the National Championship Game will have already been asked and answered in the minds of many pollsters.
So the question becomes…as stated below…can Boise State beat up on their inferior opponents enough to maintain their current level of hype? I certainly think they can…because for the most part they have in the past and this is probably the best Boise State team yet.
Furthermore…we were all witnesses to the national media’s disdain for the Hawkeyes last year…they barely even needed a legitimate reason to write off the Hawkeyes (in the eyes of the media – Ohio State we are not).
I don’t think Boise State should go over an undefeated Iowa team…I’m just speculating as to when the jump occurs…because I don’t see any way that we get enough love until Ohio State and by that point the voters may already have dug into their positions on Boise St. It is similar to a political election…the overwhelming majority of voters have made up their mind before the campaign is 1/2 way done…and regardless of what posturing is thrown out over the last few months of the campaigns…they spin it in their own minds to fit the choice they’ve already made.
Admit it…you’ve chosen a candidate before and every time their opponent runs a negative ad you think to yourself what a mudslinging asshole that guy is…but when your candidate runs a negative ad…you think to yourself…yeah that’s right…and I bet he snorts blow off of hookers’ asses (an attribute which under most normal circumstances you would applaud).
What if...
Everything I’ve read above is assuming Boise State stays ranked in the top 5 all season. The only way I see that happening is if they blow out every single one of their opponents in the WAC. What if they don’t blow out all their competitors and pull a game or two that is reminiscent of Iowa vs UNI 09? Iowa dropped out of the polls after that game. If Boise doesn’t dominate every game, I think there is a chance they could drop out of the top 5, thus eliminating them from a shot at the MNC. I would like to think BSU isn’t the darling favorite of the human pollsters and that they would be treated like Iowa, or any other team that nearly loses a cupcake game.
Here is my question to you then?
So Boise State beats #11 VT and #24 Oregon State now they are worthy? Boise can play with anyone, but at any given time there are probably 6 or so teams that could beat anyone on a given day. Last year Ohio State beat Iowa ranked better than #11 VT, Penn State, and Wiscons both better than #24, just because they beat them they don’t deserve to play for a NC. They had a slip up game against a weak USC team before Pryor got going and Purdue, because of this they didn’t get to go to the NC. The point is not that Boise state isn’t good enough to beat someone for a NC, the point is that all they have to do is prepare for 1 game a year and then show up to play the rest of them, THEY HAVE NO LEGITIMATE TRAP GAMES!!!!!!! All of their big wins, Oregon, VT, Oklahoma, and TCU have been the first or last game of the year, which means they have multiple weeks to prepare for them. Could they consistantly run up against top 25 teams with only 1 week to prepare and stay undfeated? Could Boise State beat any team in the SEC or Big 10? YES! But could they run the table on the conference week in and week out? Probably not, but if they did then and only then do they deserve a chance. The National Championship should go to someone who has consistantly been tested and consistantly prevailed, not win 1 game and show up to the other 11. BCS teams get blasted if they schedule 1 or 2 cupcake teams a year, but everyone is all over boise when they play 10 or 11 every year. Is Boise good? YES! Could Boise win a NC? YES! Could you imagine the Outrage if Notre Dame played 1 ranked team and scheduled all WAC (minus Boise) and MAC teams to guarantee they went undefeated just to get to the NC game. So if Ohio State beats Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin and Penn State, but loses to minnesota they aren’t as worthy as Boise who only beat 1 ranked team? I hope the wheels fall off the bandwagon from all the weight of you jumping on board! Let them have the BCS all they want against BCS teams, just not the NC its a joke if they do, even if they can win.
BSU loving chafes my balls.
I pulled some data about BSU and their opponents for analysis. I know my method is completely unscientific and that I will probably be told to put dunce hat and go sit in the corner by several of BHGP’s “statisticians”. I pulled BSU’s schedule and checked how the future opponents all did this first week. I found a couple of interesting games.
Oregon State lost to TCU, 30 to 21
Toledo lost to Arizona, 41-2
San Jose State lost to Alabama, 48-3
Hawaii lost to USC, 49-36
Utah State lost to Oklahoma, 31-24
Granted I know preseason rankings are just pollster’s wet dreams (I threw Arizona in for hopefully obvious reasons). In theory if BSU is truly a MNC contending team, then they should be able to do better than the above-mentioned ranked winners. Will they, I doubt it.
In theory, if BSU only beats San Jose State 36-14, then Alabama is better than BSU. Additionally, BSU needs to annihilate Hawaii if they are truly better than USC.
Also, I was wondering if anybody thinks the teams in the WAC have had enough of the BSU hype and decided to make beating BSU their sole goal of the year?
i used to like...
boise…
now theyre just annoying.
i still think chris petersen would be a great coach in the big10 (or anywhere, but we need some more attention)
by metcalfrhymeswithblodbath on Sep 15, 2010 6:59 PM CDT reply actions
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