Big Ten Realignment: Division Divinations
by Adam Jacobi on Aug 26, 2010 1:05 PM CDT
in Iowa Hawkeyes Football
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PrintAs we mentioned in Part I of this story, we think splitting Michigan and OSU up and moving their game to the middle of the season is absolutely insane, and not the cool kind of insane, like the type that informs every single stunt in the Jackass movies. Nonetheless, Delany and Alvarez both indicate that this process is almost done--80% is the figure tossed out by Delany--so it's time to accept it as the new, impending reality. Wisconsin and Iowa are split up, and so too shall be Michigan and Ohio State. And, logic would dictate, PSU and Nebraska.
Let's also make one assumption--that pairs of split teams will be divided by East and West across the board whenever possible. For example, of the Big Ten's top tier, Michigan and Nebraska go west, OSU and PSU go east. Likewise, Iowa west, Wisconsin east. It is just an assumption, but one that assumes at least a modicum of consideration for the fans when it's convenient (grumble grumble). Considering how sacrosanct the traditional and/or geographic rivalries are, this assumption will come in handy at the end.
Okay. With that, Alvarez also says there are two more tiers of programs in the conference, considering their recent performance. Let's make that split now:
TIER 1: DANGEROUS ROAD GAMES AND ALAMO BOWL FODDER
Michigan State
Purdue
Northwestern
Minnesota
TIER 2: WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOUR TEAM
Indiana
Illinois
Truth be told, I'm only sold on three of these designations--MSU, Purdue, and Indiana. But Illinois' last bowl win was the 1999 Micron PC Bowl--something they'll never let us forget--and while that beats jNWU's unblemished record of bowl losses, the Wildcats have at least avoided oh-fer-ing the conference slate in the last 12 years. Indiana is horrible. Meanwhile, Minnesota and Northwestern at least have a habit of putting together winning seasons on a fairly regular basis. As for Purdue, tough call, but there's probably enough of an affinity for the heights of the Joe Tiller era that the conference doesn't put them in the same tier as Indiana.
So of tier 1, the west-to-east progression goes Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue, Michigan State. In tier 2, Illinois would head west, and Indiana east. That gives us the following:
DIVISION JIM
Michigan
Nebraska
Iowa
Northwestern
Minnesota
Illinois
DIVISION DELANY
Ohio State
Penn State
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Purdue
Indiana
That's mostly fair, except for one problem: there's no way Michigan's going to be split up from both MSU and Ohio State. Also, that is a murderous east squad in the immediate short term. So let's make one little swap among tier 3 teams:
Osbechler With A Side Of Fry Division
Michigan
Nebraska
Iowa
Michigan State
Northwestern
Illinois
Hayesterno Von Corso Division
Ohio State
Penn State
Wisconsin
Purdue
Minnesota
Indiana
This provides competitive balance across the different tiers of play, keeps everyone in the same division as their geographic rivals (hello, Rivalry Week), and provides for one protected interdivisional rivalry per school:
Michigan-Ohio State
Nebraska-Wisconsin
Penn State-Michigan State
Iowa-Minnesota
Northwestern-Purdue
Illinois-Indiana
Yes, it sort of falls apart at the end, but come on; the SEC gave protected status to Mississippi State-Kentucky and Arkansas-South Carolina, and those schools aren't even in bordering states.
Whew. So that's our new plan now that Michigan and OSU are getting divorced or whatever. With that, and considering the Big Ten's conduct over the last few months when it comes to rumors, we expect a flat east/west split to be announced by lunchtime Monday morning.
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Iowa
in separate divisions from Wisconsin AND Minnesota? Hmm….
yeah
we need a Minny trade here..
by SaturdayMorningKegStanzis on Aug 26, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure there's a way
to keep Iowa playing Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Minnesota all at the same time—especially with Wisconsin definitely being in a different division.
Ceci n'est pas un blogue.
This was way more fun
when we were just ruining other people’s leagues. Now we actually have to face the consequences. Lame.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
It's gotten to the point that
Great minds think alike. Here's what I posted in the other thread
Nebraska/Iowa/Michigan/Michigan State/Northwestern/Illinois in one division with Ohio State/Penn State/Indiana/Illinois/Wisconsin and Minnesota in the other.
Last weekend matchups will all be intradivisional rivalries:
Iowa vs. Nebraska
Michigan vs. Michigan State
Illinois vs. Northwestern
Ohio State vs. Penn State
Indiana vs. Purdue
Wisconsin vs. Minnesota
B10 will take a cue from the SEC and have each institution play one inter-divisional protected game. Protected games will be:
Ohio State vs. Michigan
Penn State vs. Michigan State
Iowa vs. Minnesota
Wisconsin vs. Nebraska
Illinois vs. Indiana
Purdue vs. Northwestern
Protected games will all be played on the same Saturday in mid-October
My takeaway.
Iowa split from Wisconsin and Minnesota in one scenario
Michigan split from MSU and tOSU in another.
And all because OSU/UM can’t be together. Whatever.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
I also posted this re: the Thanksgiving TV schedule
Thanksgiving Weekend TV Lineup Friday
12:00 EST — Indiana vs. Purdue (Old Oaken Bucket)
3:30 EST — Wisconsin vs. Minnesota (Paul Bunyan’s Axe)
8:00 EST — Iowa vs. Nebraska (Battle for Council Bluffs)
Saturday
12:00 EST — Illinois vs. Northwestern (Sweet Sioux Tomahawk)
3:30 EST — MIchigan vs. Michigan State (Paul Bunyan Trophy)
8:00 EST — Ohio State vs. Penn State (Sweater Vest vs. Coke Bottle Glasses)
The B10 would dominate the airwaves that weekend
Pssst!
There’s no more Sweet Sioux Tomahawk…they traded it in for a Monopoly piece.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the LoL Trophy
Let’s debate how it’s pronounced!
"Bama Hawkeye, you know, the Iowa blogger who actually uses reason and analysis." - Hawkeye State
Off Tackle Empire
by Bama Hawkeye on Aug 26, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
LOLE
FTW
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Aug 26, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever it is called
it’s fuckin’ golden bronze.
/Blago’d
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I've got this thing, and it's fuckin' golden, man.
It’s called the Land Grant Trophy.
You know where I hid it? No, not under my bangs. Good guess, though.
You see what I did there? Yeeeaaaaaahhhh.
So they went from sweet sioux tomahawk...
to sweet sioux tophat?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Aug 26, 2010 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Please add another awesome drinking day
I’d also say that once the conference goes to 9 games, the first four games should be games against the other division…ending with a showdown of the protected rivalries the fourth conference game. That way if your season has been crap up until the middle of October, you can still ruin a piece of your rivals season and dump on some divisional opponents.
No, we need to play for CB
This way, if the Hawkeyes lose on the gridiron, the state still realizes a gain by losing CB. If the Hawkeyes win, Iowans can live with having to claim CB as their own because it means they have beaten the Huskers. It’s a win/win proposition.
That was my thought
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Aug 26, 2010 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Except you're forgetting about no night games
come November. Maybe they’ll amend those rules (they will for sure for the CCG since the Big 12’s prime time spot just opened up for that), but most likely not during the regular season
What I've read has indicated that the "November Night Games Verboten" Rule
Only applies to outdoor games, a la the closing of the Metrodome in 2008.
You see what I did there? Yeeeaaaaaahhhh.
In our scenarios, Wisconsin vs. Iowa would be the only huge casualty
as that game would not be played on an annual basis. I would like to see Minnesota play Michigan as much as possible only because the Little Brown Jug is the best non-Iowa trophy game in the country, but UM/UM do not play annually as is.
It's gotten to the point, though
where Wisconsin is a better rivalry for Iowa than Minnesota. It’s a long-running rivalry where Iowa has a one game advantage. Not only is it a border war but they only way it could be more even is if it’s an even year.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand all that.
But I think the WORST CASE SCENARIO is that we miss them twice in 2011-2014. Once we get 9 conference games in place and two protected cross-division rivals, I can’t imagine Wisconsin falling off our permanent rotation.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Plus, isn't a win over Minnesota easier?
I’m sure the cross division record will come in to play in some type of tiebreaker scenario.
by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 26, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Easy Wins?
Funny, I really want to play Nebraska every year and it has nothing to do with easy wins. Illinois is a border state and a protected match-up with the Illini would likely do wonders for padding the stats. Want to be the best? Beat the best.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
November 30, 2010 in Iowa City
Be there and you will see it happen and listen to Klug sing the Buckeye Pokey.
You rip his right foot off
You tear his right arm out
You put your forearm in
And shake Pryor all about
the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea
Why are we going to be in Iowa City on the last Tuesday of November?
I have classes and have to work, so I’m in. Just not sure why people would travel from out of town for that day.
Just kidding, I’m sure you meant November 20.
I want us to play Nebraska every year too.
However to win the conference, you have to get to the championship game. If you had to choose between Wisky and Minny for a more likely W…
by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 26, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
why not play all 11 big ten games.
They can keep the divisions and have a CCG just like they do in basketball then we can crown the season champ and the tournament champ each year. I know it would eat into those lucrative home games but would’nt we all be willing to pay 15%-20% more for tickets to a season full of meaningful games rather than the current slate with 2-3 sacrificial lambs every year. Kinnick is sold out this season but people will be giving away tickets for Ball State and EIU for lack of interested buyers.
the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea
"The Economics of Home Games" is a grad level course I haven't taken.
A full round robin in the Big 10 is a bit more progressive than I think anyone is ready for. Boise St is in contention for the national championship with 2 or 3 real games scheduled. A murderer’s row of 11 real games is not the fast-track to the BCS championship. Plus, someone has to pay for EIU basketball. Think of the kids!
by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 26, 2010 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
As an Iowa fan, I am happy to trade an annual game against Wisconsin
for an end of the year showdown with Nebraska. If you ask Wisconsin fans, I’m sure they would tell you they would rather play Nebraska annually (in the interdivisonal protected game) than play Iowa every year.
Frankly
I like playing Wisconsin because it’s a good team that we usually beat when we should, and when it’s a tossup game. Nebraska is improving, and I don’t know that we would have the same level of success, but right now playing Nebraska is playing Wisconsin, but with national attention.
A fella steps out for a two pound burrito and all hell breaks loose.
by Mr. Grizz on Aug 26, 2010 2:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Why not have 2 protected interdivisional games then
the other four teams could rotate on and off every two years just like today. Iowa could still lock in Minney and Wisky every year and rotate tOSU & IU and PSU & Purdue every two years.
the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea
Is the 9-game conference slate a done deal?
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
From the link up above...
• A shift to nine conference games would result in only two no-plays. Delany said there is an agreement in principle among athletic directors to add a ninth game, as he desires, but not before the 2015 season.
Ceci n'est pas un blogue.
I don't think the B10 will need to have its schools have two protected interdivision games
because the only rivalry affected (under the jdub/Jacobi plan), is Wisconsin/Iowa.
I supposed the conference could put the schools in two-team pods and have each team play its protected rival as well as its podmate’s protected rival to achieve two interdivisional protected games. If the conference elected to do that, the protected rivalries would be:
Iowa (Wisconsin and Minnesota)
Nebraska (Wisconsin and Minnesota)
Michigan (Ohio State and Penn State)
Michigan State (Ohio State and Penn State)
Illinois (Indiana and Purdue)
Northwestern (Indiana and Purdue)
Ohio State (Michigan and Michigan State)
Penn State (MIchigan and Michigan State)
Indiana (Northwestern and Illinois)
Purdue (Northwestern and Illinois)
Wisconsin (Nebraska and Iowa)
Minnesota (Nebraska and Iowa)
If the B10 implemented this plan, expect to see white flags raised in East Lansing and Minneapolis. Michigan State’s conference schedule could be:
Ohio State
Penn State
Michigan
Nebraska
Iowa
Illinois
Northwestern
Wisconsin (this opponent would vary between UW/Minny/Indiana/Purdue)
That is one rough schedule. I’m sure Michigan wouldn’t be thrilled with having to play both OSU and PSU from the other division and Wisconsin would love the fact that they played Iowa and Nebraska along with PSU and OSU every year.
Nebraska vs. PSU
I think the divisions listed above will be what is announced, but Nebraska and Penn State will be a protected rivalry (sticking Wisconsin with Michigan State). I’d much rather watch Nebraska play PSU every year for the Fringe Trophy or whatever instead of PSU and MSU playing for the Land Grant Trophy. Also, it would keep with the competitive balance and make-as-much-money-as-possible themes, guaranteeing that the league’s top four brands play each other as much as possible.
Google Maps!
Google Maps tells me that WIsconsin and Michigan State could play for a trophy involving a ferry, since you could take the Milwaukee-Muskegon ferry on the trip between Madison and East Lansing, as long as the game was played by October 31.
They could play for a Fairy. It'd be just as relevant.
by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 26, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
If you don’t subscribe to Rolling Stone do yourself a favor and pick up the latest issue.
by Hank Thrasher on Aug 26, 2010 3:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I've thought Anna Paquin has always been smokin' sexy.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Aug 26, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I've always thought Anna Paquin can't act to save her life.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
can't act but...
you can bet the winning team would be fighting over who got to carry her off the field
But they would also have to fight off these guys
by Hank Thrasher on Aug 26, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Worst. Period. Ever.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Its not a period piece.
Its set in modern times.
by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 26, 2010 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, but even that deft act of misdirection
can draw my eyes away from the ghastly splotch of dark blood on her inner, upper thigh. It’s not “sexy”, it’s a biohazard.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Looking back, they realize a timely placed cork might have proved useful.
by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 26, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Like before conception?
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 27, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
She has won an Oscar.
But I guess since she was only 11 so it might not count…
by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 26, 2010 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions
At beginning and end of her career.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 26, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Anna Paquin played a Band Aid in the movie too
Well, isn't what LeBron did last night the living embodiment of The Secret, leaving millions on the table and turning himself into a hometown villain, all for the sake of winning?
Neil Paine, basketball-reference.com
Whooo.... God, she's hot.
Going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.... Alright, I'll stop for now.
by EnergizerHawk on Aug 26, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it'll be MSU-Wisconsin and PSU-Nebraska.
The second match-up is a made-for-ABC TV viewer bonanza, and it evens things out in terms of scheduling advantages/disadvantages if you believe Mich/OSU/PSU/Neb are going to be title contenders from now (or 3 years from now in Michigan’s case) until forever.
Not really thrilled about either option, as it would mean MSU would be locked into playing 4 of the top 6 traditional upper-division teams every year.
(Note: Drafted but not posted before DCHawkeye’s comment.)
Fight for The Only Colors: Green and White!
by KJ@theonlycolors on Aug 26, 2010 2:35 PM CDT reply actions
Exactly.
Right or wrong, TV is helping drive this train and I can’t see Delany turning down a guaranteed Penn State-Nebraska game every year in favor of Penn State-Michigan State and Wisconsin-Nebraska.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
More likely...
…it’ll be PSU-Nebraska, Iowa-Wisconsin, and MSU-Minnesota, based on competitive balance alone….(or maybe MSU-Purdue, Minny-Northwestern)
With that, and considering the Big Ten’s conduct over the last few months when it comes to rumors, we expect a flat east/west split to be announced by lunchtime Monday morning.
I really hope you’re right.
Turn your crank to Frank!
This had better happen
Reasonably balanced short term (and predicting anything further out is just going to make you look like a moron), as good as possible on rivalries (only two existing protected rivalries would be cross-division), and perfect on geography.
Why trade away rivalries and geography (the two criteria that are constants) for balance (the one that isn’t) when you can have all three?
This divisions thing is more complicated than the reception seating arrangements at my sister's wedding.
America, you're looking good: handsome, free and tall.
by Close Shave America on Aug 26, 2010 3:05 PM CDT reply actions
I didn't know shaving cream had relatives.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Aug 26, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Pancakes and big rigs
"I shoot, I score. He shoots, I score." - Dan Gable
by ClaybornSmash on Aug 26, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
rivals
I think that Alvarez’s talk about ’paired teams etc. should be looked at closely.
My thought
Division A:
Michigan
Nebraska
Iowa
Michigan St.
Northwestern
Illinois
Division B:
tOSU
PSU
Wisky
Minnie
Purdue
Indiana
This way each school is paired in their Division with what CAN be argued is their most logical geographic rival for playing in the last weekend of the season
The cross division rivalries will then be based upon the TIERS that Alvarez mentions
Michigan vs tOSU
Nebraska vs PSU
IOWA vs WISCONSIN
Michigan St. vs Minnesota
jNW vs Purdue
Illinois vs Indiana
There’s 3 REALLY good games there that should be able to generate plenty of long term rivalry heat and the bottom 3 give ok games, especially the cellar game of Illinois vs Indiana which is a pretty good carry over from basketball.
It also does well for the competitive balance— make the path a little harder for the traditional powers and (potentially) a little easier for the weaker teams.
I could live with that alignment in a second, and remember in a few years with going 9 game schedule we would get Minnie back as an every year rival anyway.
The only people who would potentially be upset about this is Wisky, because the say they ‘want’ Nebraska— based on what? the fact that Alvarez played there??
The only people who would potentially be upset about this is Wisky, because the say they ‘want’ Nebraska— based on what? the fact that Alvarez played there??
Yes, that is exactly why. It’s weak, but it is what it is. Oh, that and Wisconsin fans are under the impression that Alvarez proposed and pushed for Nebraska, so they would still be on the Titanic in the BigXII without him. If you drink the Badgerade, Nebraska wouldn’t have been approved without Alvarez. Not to mention that he built WI as an emulation of Devaney’s Nebraska teams. And he’s friends with Osborne, and they have the same colors, and blah blah blah. They think that Iowa and Nebraska is just a border rivalry and somehow the Alvarez thing trumps everything else.
I suspect that Alvarez has more suck than Barta in this battle
the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea
Given what we know (ANGER!!!!)
I think those divisions are likely correct — they’re what I came up with as well. Almost perfect if you S-curved it based on wins since 1993 (which is a known consideration). Solid games at the end of the year.
But the fact that they have made it so that right now we Michigan fans and the morons from the state to the south are currently united to fight on the same side instead of each other should let them know this is a stupid idea to begin with. Final week, same division. It’s not that hard:
Divisions OSU, UM, UW, MSU, and the Bucket Boys and NEB, PSU, IOWA, MINN, NW, ZOOK Crossovers of UM/NEB (play for a new trophy, the Tom Osborne Retirement Gift), OSU/PSU, IOWA/UW, NW/MSU, MINN/PURDUE, and IU/UI. And hey, you guys would get every single game you want yearly — Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and PSU to boot. Gee, it makes so much sense you’d have to be completely blinded by money (and stupidity) not to do it.
by Yinka Double Dare on Aug 26, 2010 5:51 PM CDT reply actions
Just a twist
I have my divisions a little differently because I think the commish and the AD’s are thinking about what’s going to happen once we get to the 9-game schedule in 2015. Lot’s of potential here. Divisions and each teams “two” cross over games come 2015:
Division 1
Michigan – OSU, Minnesota
Nebraska – PSU, Wisconsin
Iowa – Minnesota, Wisconsin
Michigan State – Penn State, Purdue
Indiana – Illinois, Purdue
Northwestern – OSU, Illinois
Division 2
OSU – Michigan, Northwestern
PSU – Nebraska, Michigan State
Wisconsin – Iowa, Nebraska
Minnesota – Michigan, Iowa
Purdue – Michigan State, Indiana
Illinois – Indiana, Northwestern
These divisions are balanced very well, ensure most (if not all) trophy games and keep Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin playing each other while making everyone else happy too.
On a side note.
I think most Iowa and Nebraska fans have been waiting generations for an annual rivalry. That’s how big this is going to be. Splitting those two up would be cataclysmic. As a husker fan, I respect Barry and Wisconsin. I’d love to play Iowa/Minnesota/Wisconsin every year, but if there can be only one…sorry Barry. It’s gotta be Iowa and if somehow this doesn’t happen, the state of Nebraska will disown Barry Alveraz.
Where will Missouri and Rutgers go?
and Notre Dame and Syracuse? Gotta figure that any alignment may be somewhat temporary, even if by temproary that means that other teams will be added as the conference expands again.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Worry about that when they join, if they join
Make the divisions make sense now, and you can realign later if necessary.
Or
You realize that things tend to shake themselves up in the long-run. Take the SEC, outside of the past two years where the top team in each division was so far and away better than the rest of the league, the more common fact has been for one division to have a 2-4 year run as clearly superior to the other, only to have it bounce back the other way for a similar period of time.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Exactly
I didn’t mean realigning for balance, but once we add more teams (if we do) then we can move someone if we have to. But don’t make your 12-team divisions contingent on “how is this going to work when we add a bunch more”.
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