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Around SBN: FSU To Big 12 'Inevitable,' According To Report

You'll_See_What_You_Want@Corn.com

Newmaths_medium

So Team Speed Kills did what Team Speed Kills does; Year 2 and cocknfire are writing the typical myopic SEC drivel of alarmingly high quality, but saying Iowa's schedule (which is virtually identical to last year's, only with Ball State and Eastern Illinois instead of Arkansas State and Northern Iowa; also with every semi-legitimate Big Ten opponent at home) is tough, 2009 was lucky, and 2010 is clearly going to be our comeuppance is both cliche and pretty much wrong.  It's the sort of anecdotal "look at all the lucky bounces they got!" argument that can be obliterated by an objective look at the data.  Fortunately, we don't need to do the heavy lifting.  It's why we keep Brian Cook around, for those times when someone doesn't think a win was "impressive enough."  This is where Brian usually channels Lloyd Carr and cloud-of-dust football and...well, take it away, ya goddamn hippie:

I've been thinking this for a while and now I'll dare mention it because a couple other outlets have broached the same thing: isn't Iowa due for a recession after their debt-fueled 2009? The lasting image of Iowa's Orange Bowl-winning season isn't Adrian Clayborn turning something into a damp red smear* but an Indiana pass pinging off four separate players before landing Charmin-soft in the hands of Tyler Sash.

Yeah!  Go get 'em Coo...wait, what?

Iowa was 89th in total offense last year. That is not often the recipe for a top-ten team, especially when the top-ten defense lost about half its starters and is still deploying a walk-on at safety.

Hey, wait a minute!

Meanwhile, those fourth quarter comebacks scream regression unless you think Stanzi is some Rick Six** prone version of John Elway chafing under Dan Reeves. I don't think Iowa will be bad, exactly, but I'd be less surprised by the Hawkeyes finishing fifth in the Big Ten than second.

Let me say this first, because sometimes Cook doesn't get it: I like MGoBlog.  I like Brian Cook.  He's a great writer, a pioneer in this business, and a nice guy.  But he didn't do his homework here, and the results are embarrassing for him.  For one, five seconds and a solar calculator would tell him that three departures out of eleven is not "about half" of Iowa's 2009 defensive starters.  As for the walk-on at safety, his second-team all-conference selection last season is a higher accolade than every single defensive player on Michigan's 2010 roster has ever received.  I'll let Stanzi speak for himself and turn instead to Cook's love of the anecdotal over the analytic.  I'm sure there's someone who has looked at the actual data on which teams were "lucky" in 2009.  Oh yeah, I almost forgot:  IT'S COOK'S OWN FUCKING COMMENTERS:

Lucky_medium
You were killed by a graph and I am sad.

Was Iowa "lucky" in 2009?  Sure, but no "luckier" than Minnesota, only slightly more "lucky" than Penn State and Wisconsin, and a whole metric fucking truckload less "lucky" than Northwestern.  In fact, given how incredibly unlucky Iowa was in 2008, it's fair to say that their somewhat-lucky 2009 still didn't revert Iowa to the mean.  That is, if you believe your own content over three sentences from a pair of SEC fans who haven't watched Iowa since they kicked the crap out of South Carolina on New Years' Day 2009.

And I guess that's what is so sad about this.  Because this is idiotic, and it is clueless, and it is so against character that it deserves to be called idiotic and clueless.  Either Cook didn't realize it's moronic, which makes him the least likely moron I've ever met, or Cook knew it (the title gives it away), and that basically makes him Tom Dienhart this time.  Regardless of the motivation, it's beneath him.

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Iowa was lucky...

wait, no they were talented, but they lost too much of the talent,

wait no, they were lucky to be talented, but now they are going to be lost…

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 7:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Honestly,

The way we play, we will always be a lucky bounce between winning and losing… We play in the same vein as Tressel ball, and even the Buckeyes with a team stacked with NFL talent for over a decade still gets called the Luckeyes because they pull out the close ones.

Sports is about chance… you can only give yourself a better chance by working harder than the other guy and stocking up on more talent… you can never fully erase their chance of winning.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Probably some truth to that..

Iowa is set up to be able to compete/stand in against most any opponent (physical lines on both sides of the ball, good but not overwhelming talent at the skill positions, a more traditional offensive system). This style, which has resulted in Iowa not being defeated by more than 10 points since 2007 (not sure about this, but I think that is the case) , also results in some close games against what is perceived as lesser competition.
It’s a sound philosophy for a team like Iowa, which is likely to never get the recruiting classes of PSU, tOSU and Michigan.

by DodgerHawki on Aug 17, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree up until the schools you listed as having better recruiting...

…cause PSU and Michigan haven’t been pulling in the blue chippers lately. But I agree with the rest.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 17, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not go get into an argument about recruiting...

because Iowa is proof that low-ranked classes don’t doom a team to failure, but from 2006 to present the three teams I mentioned had higher-ranked classes than did Iowa every year (according to Rivals), and in some years significantly better.

by DodgerHawki on Aug 17, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't trying to argue...

…I just meant that they’ve been raging about the state of PSU’s recruitment affairs over at BSD for the last couple years, and Michigan gets good classes, but can’t seem to get the recruits on campus, or hang onto them once they are.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 17, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

@eyeheart PSU has done well the last 2-3 years, last class was the best in the league.

by KevinHD on Aug 17, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whoops.

Point conceded to DodgerHawki. My mind is playing tricks on me.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 17, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s a sound philosophy for a team like Iowa, which is likely to never get the recruiting classes of PSU, tOSU and Michigan.

Nice Swagger. It is comments like that one that go to show the fans who still believe that we are second class and it’s just a matter of time before it catches up to us.

Obviously if we had Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald lining up on the outside…we would utilize them appropriately…but that would not change our philosophy of building the team from the inside out.

In my opinion…Kirk Ferentz is the best college football coach in the nation…and he runs this type of program because he thinks it’s the best way to win…not because he thinks it’s the best way to win with a bunch of no-talent ass clowns.

Many people believe that Dan Gable built the Iowa wrestling program on a foundation of hard work and being in far superior physical condition to the opponent because other schools had more talented wrestlers. Not true…he did that because it is the best way to win with any wrestler.

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nuggets

There’s a nugget of truth here. I was watching a replay of the Rose Bowl last night, and it’s amazing how OSU just kills the offense the instant they’re 1 score up in the second half. They’re so focused on avoiding mistakes that they allow teams to hang around long into the fourth quarter, whereupon fluky shit determines the outcomes of games.

I get the same vibe watching Iowa: they lack the ability to put teams away, and that seems to emphasize fluky (lucky/unlucky plays) late in games.

by The Iron Colonel on Aug 17, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lucky

It seemed that we had our fair share of good bounces last year. Even Ferentz implied as such when asked about how high the computers had us ranked he said that these computers had obviously not seen us play. Last year was as much fun as any for me in my 35 years of following Iowa. That said, there is very little separating us from 5th in the nation and 5 th in the conference: I agree with Ferentz on this b

by Kmurp on Aug 17, 2010 9:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I sort of agree about last year being fun

but only because we won so much. Had any of those games gone the other way, I’m sure you (and I) would be singing a different tune.

by Brock8144 on Aug 17, 2010 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that's Ferentz schtick

If Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, or Florida had the exact same season you know those coaches wouldn’t have been self deprecating like that. They would have been lobbying like they were working on K Street and we all know it.

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Looks like I'm not the only dipshit around here!

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 7:48 AM CDT reply actions  

Yes.

He looks crazier in person.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Aug 18, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

College lucky and Pro lucky

College football is so different from profesisonal—NFL—football. For example, in college football it seems that for some a controlled victory is perceived as a game in which the victor is never behind, wins by three scores or more and the fourth quarter is essentially moot—as in the victor is milking the clock or playing back-ups the whole quarter. An example of this is the Iowa victory over Iowa State last year (although Iowa was down 3-0 until late in the first quarter). Iowa won that game 35-3.

In the NFL a controlled victory appears to be a game in which the victor controls the line of scrimmage, manages turnovers, is ahead in the game by at least 7 points from the middle of the third quarter, or perhaps a bit earlier, on. An example of this could be the Jets victory over Cincinnati in the playoffs last year. The Jets won that game 24-14.

Had the Jets/Bengals been a college football game I believe the perception would have been that it was a close contest and that the Jets were fortunate to win. The Jets had fewer first downs, ran fewer total plays and benefitted from a crucial Bengals turnover. But from an NFL perspective the Jets controlled that game from the middle of the second quarter on and by the fourth quarter they put a virtual stranglehold on the Bengals. They had a very long drive that resulted in a FG and other than a Cedric Benson 47 yard TD run they stifled the Bengals effort to get back in the game. They held the ball in that quarter for one minute longer than the Bengals.

The Hawkeyes are not a traditional college football team. They approach each game much more like an NFL coach would and play it out as such. They expect to control the trenches, win the turnover battle and convert scores on drives (FGs are good in the Iowa scheme of things). They try to win the game on the field, not in the box score. They are not a fantasy team. Over the course of 13 games they expect this will amount to more wins than losses.

The problem—for lack of a better word—with Iowa’s approach is that it is an IDEAL system for playoffs and a dicey one for a system that relies on voting and impression management…in other words, the college football system. Iowa sees a season not in terms of perfection but in terms of devlopment and inevitable movement toward perfection. Ferentz coaches each game as part of a greater whole.

The notion that Iowa is lucky is a common one. However, if you look at Iowa against the spread in the typical Vegas line, they are one of the most reliable bets in all of college football in the Ferentz era. In fact, as I recall, they were the second best team two years ago and Top 10 last year. Ferentz’s system is one where Iowa will almost never be blown out and almost never blow teams out. Iowa State last year and Minnesota the year prior are flukes, lucky if you will. Michigan State last year and Penn State the year before, not so much.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 8:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Addendum

Analysts (so to speak) who look at Iowa with a microscope will find many, many flaws or see things worth critiquing One must look at Iowa from afar, with context, big picture. From that perspective you will see a great deal and a team that’s just fine.

Angelina Jolie had somewhat severe acne as a kid and still has scars from that. So looking at her up close, very close, she looks pretty flawed. From far away, she’s just fine (please to not comment on Jolie as a bad example…it is one of many I could have used and while I find her hot I respect that you may not).

So let the armchair college-centric blowhards write up that Iowa did not blow out Arkansas State. who cares. They are analyzing paper and not field of play.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well said...

“They approach each game much more like an NFL coach would and play it out as such.”

I had a thought like that the other day while reading another one of these threads. Kirk and Co. put together pro-style game plans. They cut out the flash and play for the win. End of story.

How good would some of Kirk’s better Iowa teams have been had he been allowed to compete in a playoff system?

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Aug 17, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would have loved to see the 2002 or 2008 teams in a playoff.

(Although the 2008 team likely wouldn’t have MADE a playoff, unless you let in a whole crapload of teams.)

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

The effect of parity on perception

Very nicely put. I think that the relative parity in the NFL leads to fewer blowouts, while in college the general public and sportswriters see Florida beating Central East Floribama Tech by 60 points and come to expect that every coach will run up the score like Meyer or Stoops.

The good news for every team is that going undefeated will get you a BCS game, and usually get you into the MNC game, especially if you’re from a BCS conference. The problem for Iowa is that coming in with one loss or being the third undefeated team will never be enough for those who like to gorge on blowouts and expect them from all teams at all times. The NFL is Weight Watchers to the NCAA’s Vegas buffet, if you will.

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Stoops and Meyer

have bought in to the NCAA as beauty contest. I am not sure Ferentz has or feels he’s able to. In either case, he has a completely different approach. He does not see a blowout as masking anything or settling anything. He assumes smart people know when Iowa has dominated sufficiently. But there are so many games almost no one who votes sees more than highlights of a game. So it is probably a calculated mistake. But toward the end of the season the field narrows greatly and the press reduces its focus to about 25 teams. At that time you can stand out but by then you are playing the most difficult part of your schedule in most cases. Long story short, Stoops and Meyer use those blowouts to mask later close shave contests for overall improved polling numbers. Frankly, it works. The system is deeply flawed. No one gives two shits that the NY Giants beat the living shit out of the Redskins in week 15 ON MONDAY NIGHT. Because the Giants ended up 8-8 and that victory counted as one win. Period.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is undoubtedly true

Also helps explain why Florida tends to stick a game against Citadel on the schedule in late October/early November: give Florida a huge blowout win to mask some of their closer-than-they-should-be in-conference games.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

Florida does that because the AD Jeremy Foley believes that his team must have seven home games per year to make the kind of money he wants to make. He has said as much publicly.

To get seven home games a year, he has to schedule three cupcakes a year. The neutral site game against Georgia means that every odd-numbered year UF has only three home conference games. The annual non-conference game with FSU is a home game in those years, plus three cupcakes makes seven. In the years when the team has four conference home games, FSU is away, and three cupcakes makes seven home games. There’s no room for another home-and-home besides FSU that will make the seven home games quota happen.

I think it’s pretty much BS in a world where Texas can travel to places like UCF and Wyoming while still coming in No. 1 in overall revenue, but that’s the decision Foley has made. The reason why one of them goes in November instead of September is because that week in November before the annual FSU game used to be a bye week under the 11-game regular season schedule. Putting a I-AA team or some similar fluff is very similar to having that bye week back.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

You misunderstood my meaning

My problem isn’t that Florida plays the cupcakes (because we’re all guilty of that), my disdain was when you play them. Part of this is results from the SEC’s weird desire to play a very early-season in-conference game (week 1 or 2) followed by a lull in mid-season (which seems to be less of a scheduling quirk this season). And I certainly understand the economics of the situation and needing/wanting 7 home games (personally, I think the Cocktail Party should go back to a home-and-home).

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am saying that Ferentz is the most unique coach in the Big Ten

and that has landed him some hardware on the coaching front (several Coach of the Year awards).

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I too am a fan of Brian and Mgoblog.

But, he needed to be corrected and you have done so.

by Steven Dailey on Aug 17, 2010 9:12 AM CDT reply actions  

I just saw the thread from yesterday

So yeah, you guys basically made my points for me.

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am not a fan and that post is not too surprising.

Face it, it has never sucked this bad to be a Michigan fan. For almost all living Michigan fans, the past 3 years have been the worst in their lives. They can’t rag on Ohio State because, well, because they are totally Ohio State’s bitches (along with the rest of the conference) so pick out another team that is good but not perennial top-10 good. Iowa fits the bill nicely and I’m sure half 2/3 10/11 of the big ten prolly agrees with him.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

this is a good point

there was a psychological study that identified just this sort of behavior. I won’t try to find it. Just trust me.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's part of Brian Cook's growing infatuation

with the creepily caring star system of high school recruit rankings. Where once he seemed to acknowledge, and have fun with, the shortcomings and inherent difficulty of projecting how 17-18 year olds would develop in college, he seems to have increasingly bought into the recruiting hype machine.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is a solid comment. rec.

by KevinHD on Aug 17, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still don't know why UM made the NE mistake

As Callahan was taking that proud program into historic lows. Almost the exact same reasons given, “we need a flashy offense!” Everybody else has a shiny spread offense, we want one too!! Didn’t work in either case. Watch UM go back to the well like NE did with a defense first coach in Pelini after they can RR in a year or two.

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You never know

He might start pulling seasons out of his ass and wind up keeping his job. That said, I really hope he goes. I would rather see this than this, although I still want to see this every fall.

Me gustan los estados unidos.

by hkobb7 on Aug 17, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Another reason for Callahan failure

He never had the defense actually tackle in practice. They just thought about tackling. Get that, the blackshirts weren’t allowed to tackle, just had to mentally tackle the offense. It seemed to translate on the field, they really didn’t tackle but must have thought they were doing great.

"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
–Thomas Jefferson, U. S. President (1801–1809), as quoted in Richard Templar, The Rules of Management (Prentice Hall, 2005), p. 112

by The Bacon Explosion on Aug 17, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are joking, right?

That might be the most asinine thing I have ever heard a coach do in practice. I knew Callahan was an offensive guy, but to totally ignore the defense like that is just insane.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not kidding at all

He did several other things to dismantle the psyche of those teams. Tom Osborne made sure that each high school in the state of NE had a visit from a NU coach on a yearly basis – got a lot of talent that way (Scott Frost). Callahan did away with that almost immediately. Not only did it rob him of some home grown talent it isolated a fanbase – as much as any coach could isolate NU’s fanbase.

He was a strange man and made a strange head coach. Sad thing is that the offensive genius never did get the offense clicking. NU, fans and athletic department are much happier with Bo’s approach – knock their teeth out, score three times and win by 2.

"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
–Thomas Jefferson, U. S. President (1801–1809), as quoted in Richard Templar, The Rules of Management (Prentice Hall, 2005), p. 112

by The Bacon Explosion on Aug 17, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

Talk about going against the grain. There are some things you just don’t do. Isolating a fan base is just plain stupid. No wonder the Huskers fell so far after they fired Frank Solich. Callahan was an idiot.

I also think they should have never fired Solich in the first place. I guess in the end it has all worked out. Pelini seems to be the right guy for the job. Hopefully we can start a nice little rivalry with them next year.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 18, 2010 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

funny, still same offensive coordinator

In the past 10 years, just four team owners have not paid a luxury tax and are not on pace to pay one this year: Donald Sterling, Jerry Reinsdorf, Chris Cohen (Golden State), Bob Johnson (Charlotte).

Two owners’ teams averaged an operating income of over +$10 million per year while their teams have lost over 60% of their games: Donald Sterling and Jerry Reinsdorf.

by tyger1147 on Aug 17, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth

I don’t think it’s particularly likely that any of the top ten schools will fall out of the polls, Iowa included. Not to mention that the notion of Iowa being fortunate to a degree for having gone 11-2 last year doesn’t mean that it was the luckiest team or that others couldn’t have been as lucky. Florida was pretty lucky to get to its win total last year (Arkansas in particular should have been a loss), but that doesn’t heighten or lessen anyone else’s luck/good fortune/whatever. The comparison means nothing in this case, especially since Northwestern and Minnesota didn’t win 11 games and go to a BCS bowl.

And regression to the mean is not a firm law that must be equalized within a certain timeframe. It happens over time, not necessarily in the course of a season or two. Just because 2009’s good luck didn’t perfectly equalize 2008’s bad luck, it doesn’t mean more good luck is on the way. Iowa could hit bad luck this year without breaking any laws of the universe.

I do offer up these two stats though; you can take them or leave them.

Iowa’s Pythagorean expectation for 2009 comes out to a winning percentage of .725, or 9.42 wins across a 13-game schedule. The 11 wins Iowa did get were 1.58 more than the expectation. I don’t necessarily believe in the common notion that the difference between expected and real wins amounts to luck, but it certainly points to the idea that Iowa ended up with more wins than a “normal” team would have with the same points scored and allowed.

The second is that Iowa’s offensive yards per point last year was 14.52, good for 73rd in the country. That stat doesn’t pertain to just offense though; it’s more a measure of how efficient your team is at scoring relative to how many yards it gains. For comparison, the next lowest BCS team was Florida at 12.77 (30th), and Boise State was tops at 10.66. The only teams that were less efficient in this regard since 2001 were ‘01 LSU (14.60) and ’07 Illinois (15.26). Teams that win 10+ games tend to be far better; Iowa’s rank in ’09 placed it in the range of teams like Troy and Mississippi State.

I also know that Stanzi’s tendency for a fourth quarter spike is unsustainable, especially with the turnover on the line. I think Iowa will end up a top 15 or so team, but that’s neither the ceiling nor the floor.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 9:21 AM CDT reply actions  

Iowa did not once

get dominated like Florida did (v. Alabama) last year. Nor did it get dominated like Oregon did (Boise State & Ohio State) or like Texas did (Alabama) and on and on. All but Nebraska on that list had a game where they got thoroughly handled on the LOS and were basically never in that game in the second half. Yet, Iowa played what most believed was one of the three or four most difficult schedules in the nation. Three road games against Top 20 teams…two against Top 7 teams.

Why that is not focused on more than the close outcomes is just revelaing of the type of skewed analysis that sits out there, like cow pies on a pasture. I would be much more willing to bank on a team that has not been blown out in tthree years and returns nearly everyone than bank on a team like Oklahoma who has been crushed and lost nearly every star player.

This list is just silly really.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nebraska

 Got thumped pretty well by Texas Tech last year, 31-10.

by soylentgreen66 on Aug 17, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Put it this way

When putting the list together, I basically said, in a worst-case scenario, how many games could this team lose?

We pretty much saw Oklahoma’s worst case scenario last year, and it’s five losses. Look at the schedule for 2010, and five’s the tops: FSU, Texas, Missouri, A&M, and Tech. Florida’s worst-case scenario under Meyer was his first year, when the roster was in far worse shape than it is now and injury-plagued to boot, and it was four losses (though in an 11-game regular season). Look at 2010, and there’s at most five: Bama, LSU, Georgia, South Carolina, and FSU.

Given that the Big Ten should be pretty tough this year, the worst case scenario is six (a loss total that Iowa has put up not that long ago): Arizona, Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Sparty, and Ohio State. That’s completely discounting another WTF win by Iowa State a la 2007 too. Given that six is more than five, I put Iowa higher on the list. That’s all.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay...

you may as well add Iowa State, Northwestern (we struggle with them mostly), Minnesota (rivalry game, records out the window) and Indiana too (we got lucky last year with them, and this year it is a road game).

And worst case scenario analyzing is very useful since that happens about…what…once in a coaches tenure. Maybe. (Ferentz, by the way, had that his worst case scenario in 2007.)

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Solid linking today...

…this one and the 3 pic Michigan post above.

That’s how you link. /rising applause

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 17, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why don't you include a WTF lose for Florida

I know they’ve managed to avoid them, but Cutler almost pulled one off. Arkansas would have been one last year. Isn’t there a Miss St loss not too long ago? I may be way off, but even Florida has close calls that could be WTF losses, but a 3-7 point win gets brushed under the rug for the ’Gators and others.

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ole Miss in 2008

was the WTF loss and the prime mover in the Ole Miss boomlet this time last year.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because so far in five years under Urban Meyer, the worst loss he had was to 7-5 South Carolina in 2005. Every other loss has come to a team that ended up winning nine or more games. Yeah, there have been some close calls, but even if you do give that game you mentioned to Vandy, that makes the Commodores a 6-6 team with a chance for a seventh win in a bowl. Until he loses to a dreadful team, he gets the benefit of the doubt.

The loss to Mississippi State came with a fellow named Ron Zook. That’s all that needs to be said there.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

Thanks for the clarification. Zooker, yup that clears it up.

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Clarification

The only BCS teams that were less efficient in this regard since 2001 were ‘01 LSU (14.60) and ’07 Illinois (15.26).

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Why even play the games with this

incisiveness at our disposal?

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, I guess that settles it

because:

Since most teams show a correlation between a low pps and winning, thus all teams are structured to reveal a correlation between a low pps and winning.

Uh-huh.

There are no statistical proxies for the scoreboard.

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Aug 17, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Since we’re talking about the future, I’m talking in probabilities here.

I have never said that Iowa is definitely headed for a fall, or even that Iowa is likely to. I said that I think Iowa is the likeliest of the top ten teams in the preseason Coaches Poll to finish unranked, but the event of a top ten team finishing unranked is one I consider to be very unlikely in 2010. The likeliest event of an overall unlikely set is still an unlikely event.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Put simply

If I was a betting person, I’d bet on no one from the top ten finishing unranked this year.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

My brain explodes

when I listen to people misuse decision science to assert an intuition. But I’m not getting through to you. I don’t have a problem with an intuition that Iowa could lose 5. I believe that. A few outlier events, whammo, this is a season from hell.

I disbelieve it for any of the mislabeled “probabilities” and pseudo-objective-hyphenations you are throwing around. An airplane has a higher probability of falling out of the sky than a truck. I’m not sure how that is a useful observation, however. More useful is to ask, Are we measuring an airplane or a truck? No one in Iowa City gives a hoot about points per score, so they don’t manage to that objective. Equally weighting outcomes from the beginning of Iowa’s seasons, and the end, is also deserving of a snort. These are phony metrics.

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Aug 17, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I just like to look at the Orange Bowl

Georgia Tech fans (and I monitored their boards toward the end of that game and afterward) felt like they got hit by a truck. They thought for a moment they might steal it but that moment was fleeting. Yet, when I talked to people who only casually watched it, it was the tale of two games. Some saw it as a complete blowout and others said that Iowa only barely won.

People have a hard time commenting on Iowa unless they are the fan of the losing team. Then they get it…sometimes.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know what it’s like to get trucked by Iowa. I’ve seen it happen live. Been there, done that, don’t want to see it again (and luckily, didn’t).

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Funny that you said "luckily" there...

…because Florida didn’t get lucky, they got help from the refs on a bullshit call during an onsides kick that we recovered (which is an immeasurable). We’ll never know how that came would have turned out if an outside force hadn’t stepped in. Oh, what could have been had we been as lucky as Florida.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 17, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup

That was a very fortunate call for the Gators. No denying that.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

this game

still makes my stomach turn.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seconded...

I wish I hadn’t have watched that clip. Angers up my blood like Grandpa Simpson drinking Sasparilla.

Life - it's bigger...bigger than you and you are not me.

by hawkeyeguy85 on Aug 17, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

If you can make it

past the bad calls…the clip actually has the effect of making me so mother f’n happy that I’m a Hawkeye it is ridiculous.

You kind of have to watch the first part in order to really feel tingles down your spine…but at 5:24 when the music sets in…and then it reminds you that even though the officials did everything in their power to hose us…we still bitchmade the Florida Gators.

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Has a Conference USA offialing crew

been invited to a post season game since?

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Solomon Facemask

was what did it for me…at that point you can do nothing but realize that the officials made sure that Iowa did not win that game.

And what the fuck was the call regarding signals…something along the lines of our lineman being too loud wasn’t it?

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing I can think is that

Solomon started it and the TV camera caught the tail end. That or ref had is head totally up his ass.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

The call was

a facemask…not an unsportsmanlike conduct. Go to approximately 3:32 of the video and tell me what the call should have been.

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Even though they lost, that comeback against the odds was inspiring. Down 31-7 in the 4th quarter to cut it to 31-24, and absolutely should have had the ball with 1:22 and 47 yards to go to tie it.

If you can handle the emo-pop, this is good too:
http://www.scothawk.com/2006%20Iowa%20Football/Iowa%20vs%20Florida%202006.html

by StevenDS on Aug 17, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

After that game

Ferentz was interviewed on the radio and he was asked about the officiating. I haven’t heard this mentioned much, but he gave one of the greatest quotes. Something like:

“Well, this is where a lotta coaches get baited into saying something that will draw a big fine, but I just want to say that those officials were some of the most consistent officials doing some of the most consistent officiating I have ever seen.”

From the way he said “consistent” I was surprised that the radio station didn’t bleep it out.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

In spite of the wretched officiating...

That was also a game where I thought Iowa just came out of the gate very poorly. Yes, the hideous officiating played a signifcant role in the outcome of that game, but the way Iowa played in that first half was not typical of Iowa teams under KF (although the 05 team was a little schizo, so it wasn’t totally out of left field). I remember the KF—>NFL heat being particuarly strong around the time of that game and I’ve always wondered if that impacted bowl prep a little. Especially since in every other bowl game since the 03 Orange Bowl, Iowa’s looked incredibly well-prepared and ready to go at the opening whistle.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

We dug a hole

and the refs stole our shovel, hit us over the head with us and buried us alive.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

That analogy

Well played.

Me gustan los estados unidos.

by hkobb7 on Aug 17, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

2005?

Um, not that I recall.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

The problem with today’s version of college football is the media itself. Everybody is a critic or expert on the subject but nobody wants to do their homework. They think that by looking at the box score, watching highlights, or even watching part of a game they have full grasp of a team in its entirety. In reality, they have no clue what actually happened. They are simply lazy.

Another problem is hearsay. People love to take others opinions (which are mostly based on BS) regurgitate them, add their own two cents, and spew them out as their own. The WWW seems to be the propaganda machine behind all of this. If the WWW says so, well then it must be true. This is the type of rhetoric that pisses me off.

Furthermore, all this combined with the popularity contest/beauty pageant that is the BCS, just compiles to make the situation worse. Heaven forbid we have a playoff system and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe, just maybe we would see something extraordinary happen like an 8-4 team get hot and make a run at the NC.

If this were to happen, then people would have to evaluate every team in every conference instead of picking the perennial favorites or the brand name teams to win it all. Maybe people would have to get out of their comfort zones and see just how much BS is associated with the preseason polls and recruiting ranking.

It’s a shame that a non brand name team who starts outside the preseason polls has to claw and fight their way into a top 5 ranking going undefeated while playing a legitimate schedule only to finish 3rd in the BCS and left out of the MNCG. All this seems to happen more often than not due to the hype that surrounds this great sport.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Blech
Maybe, just maybe we would see something extraordinary happen like an 8-4 team get hot and make a run at the NC.

Good God, man, are you serious? No 8-4 team, EVER, should EVER be playing in a NC game, even if there is a playoff. 4 team playoff MAX.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you are missing my point.

Maybe an 8-4 team is pushing it. The point I am trying to make is that there are teams that play hellacious schedules, lose a few early games, and pick up steam towards the end of the season. Take the 2008 Iowa team as an example.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

What you are advocating

is that we essentially make the regular season irrelevant. Personally I like the fact that every game during the regular season you are in essence playing for the National Championship. Sometimes it can come back to bite you in the ass…but more often than not it pits the two best teams in college football against one another for the National Championship…which is the point…is it not?

How often in NCAA basketball do we get two teams playing for the National Championship who were clearly not the two best teams in the country?

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I am not advocating for a playoff.

I was merely bitching about the fact the college football has become nothing more than a polularity contest. The fact that people only go with what the know or feel safe about. It’s about thinking outside the box.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think that's totally right.
college football has become nothing more than a polularity contest.

If college football were nothing more than a popularity contest then Ole Miss would have played in the Sugar Bowl last year and Boise and TCU would have played in some shitty mid-tier bowl. However, in college football you have to actually win games.

At the end of the season there is a small number of undefeated and one- and two-loss teams . That’s where the beauty pageant/popularity contest starts.

by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Aug 17, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see your point but,
At the end of the season there is a small number of undefeated and one- and two-loss teams . That’s where the beauty pageant/popularity contest starts.

some of those one to two loss teams get screwed out of a BCS bowl game. As in Auburn case a few years back, they got screwed out of the MNCG. It seems to me the brand name teams get preferential treatment in these situations.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

If your premise is that BCS participants (and, occasionally, MNC game participants) are determined by more than just on-the-field play, we agree. However, to say that college football is NOTHING but a popularity contest is false.

This is exactly where SMA’s post on swagger comes from. It is also why every time you see Mack Brown on television it seems like he’s hitting on you.

by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Aug 17, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

BCS haters

will always have something to gripe about. I hear a lot of people complaining that the SEC gets preferential treatment…how then did an undefeated team get left out of the National Championship Game?

By the way…that was the only example (IIRC) of a time when there were three undefeated teams from BCS conferences…is that one season enough to overhaul a system that has more often than not gotten it right?

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Auburn wasn't a "hot" team that year...

…the two who got in ahead of them had ESPN all up on their junk all season long.

Popularity contest.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 17, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

The BCS has almost NEVER gotten it right

Mostly because there is no “right” answer to the question “Which two teams deserve to play for a national title?” when there are not exactly two unbeaten teams, and sometimes not even then (see 2008, for instance; two unbeaten teams, and neither got to play for it).

by SpartanDan on Aug 17, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's still better

than the old Bowl Coalition/Alliance.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure I agree

At least then you knew it was bullshit.

by SpartanDan on Aug 17, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Disagree

Right now we rely on hapless voters to pick the two best teams, then let actual football decide the difference. Under the old system we played the bowls but then had the voters pick just one team. Also, 1994.

by KevinHD on Aug 18, 2010 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not just cause we share...

…an allegiance and a first name, I’m with SpartanDan.

I prefer the tradition of the old Rose Bowl to a slightly more objective process for picking the MNC.

My big complaint with the BCS is that not every team in Div. 1-A has a chance to win the mythical title. If they did they did a four-team playoff like Phil Steele pushes, that would be better, but no solve my complaint. (Cause that’s what’s important!) I’d like to see a playoff system with every conference champ, plus a few at large teams.

by witless chum on Aug 18, 2010 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was USC that killed the Rose Bowl

or, I guess looked at another way: everyone in the Pac10 but USC. In 2008 they were openly saying they didn’t even want to play in the game, they were tired of it, and that was with the breaks from the game the BCS provided.

by KevinHD on Aug 18, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Indeed.

If they could have avoided losing to the Stanfords and Oregon States of the world during that span, they would have played in a few more non-Rose Bowl bowls and they wouldn’t have been so bored with Pasadena. (And maybe the Big Ten would have won a goddamn Rose Bowl.)

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 18, 2010 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

How does that "solve" your complaint

NO matter how you arrange it, a playoff system of any kind is always going to leave out one or more “deserving” teams (“deserving” meaning equal to the last team in). A playoff doesn’t magically fix this problem, it just changes the team that’s left out.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 18, 2010 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pushing the problem further out makes it much less important

If you have to argue whether you’re #7, #8, or #9, you’re probably not #1. If you have to argue whether you’re #1, #2, or #3, you might be #1.

by SpartanDan on Aug 18, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

If there was any way for the 2008 Iowa team to make the NC game

Then football would be a less interesting sport to watch. I’m not saying don’t change the current system. But unless your losses are all to Top-10 teams, you shouldn’t sniff the NC game. Football is a sport that rewards domination September-January. A playoff that was too big would reward domination for 4 weeks when you were lucky enough to have all your players healthy.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with your reasoning

Howerever, I am just stating that maybe we need to change the way we perceive things. I just don’t agree with preseason polls, recruiting ranking and everthing else that seems to be so corrupt in the sport we all enjoy so much. I used a playoff as an example. Maybe that was a bad example, but it was the first that popped into my head.

I remember a great Auburn team getting screwed out of a chance to play for the MNC a few years back. If that ever happed to Iowa, I would probably…I don’t know what I’d do.

/Sobbing at the thought.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, for sure

The NCAA should declare any poll that comes out before 4 weeks into the season as ineligible for use in consideration of Bowl placement and develop a +1 system (or 4-team playoff). But fiddling with things too much more makes things crazy.

As far as Caring-is-Creepy stuff, that plagues basketball too, so I’m inclined to think that’s less a problem inherent to NCAA football and more a problem inherent to sports fans (short for “fanatic”).

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree on the polls.

That’s a main reason why the first BCS poll comes out after week 8. By that point in time, most of the top teams have shown their identity.

"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me

by BStylin Hawkye on Aug 18, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but

the polls that make up the BCS poll do not come out for the first time then. They still reflect the preconceived notions of “how” the season will look inherent in all preseason polls.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 18, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yards per point is not the sort of thing anyone manages to. It’s merely a way of describing a team’s efficiency. Staging an 80-yard drive and then fumbling it away increases your offensive YPP. Returning a kick or turnover for a touchdown decreases it.

It’s a descriptive stat. It doesn’t cause anything to happen. If you have a larger offensive YPP, that means your team generally had to work harder for its points than a team with a lower offensive YPP.

Since 2001, the only 10+ game winners to have a larger offensive YPP than Iowa did last year were ‘03 TCU (14.69), ’03 Bowling Green (14.80), ’05 Alabama (16.38), ’07 BYU (14.72), and ’07 BC (15.03). Those teams were able to overcome that level of inefficiency to get to 10 wins, but it doesn’t happen often. All of those teams also had fewer wins the following year.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

If I'm reading this correctly

YPP doesn’t include kick return yardage, defensive touchdowns, defensive special teams touchdowns*, the effectiveness of your place kicker, or the effect of field position, since a good defense would give you a shorter offensive field and therefore allow a team to score more points while gaining less yards. That’s hardly a descriptive statistic. Small tool, maybe, but not one you base an entire W/L prediction on.

*I’m sure one of you is already on the footnote here.

by KevinHD on Aug 17, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

YPP does include defensive touchdowns and special teams touchdowns. It’s total offensive yards divided by total points of any kind scored.

That why I said that returning a kick for a touchdown decreases your offensive YPP. You got seven points without having to gain a single yard. So does the effectiveness of your kicker, punter, and defense in regards to the field position game. Offensive YPP in 2009 had a correlation of -0.717 with winning percentage in 2009, which is fairly strong.

Even stronger is YPP differential, which is defensive YPP (yards allowed divided by all points allowed) minus offensive YPP. It gives a better overall team efficiency rating than just one of its components because instead of focusing on how efficient you were, it also includes how efficient your opponents were against you. That had a correlation of .823 with winning percentage in ’09. Not many single stats have a greater correlation with winning than that one.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well then why not use the stronger YPP differential in your argument?

Real or perceived, when you’re using only offensive it’s like your hiding the fact that it was Iowa’s defense (field positions) and special teams that helped them win with a low offensive YPP. I’d be interested to know what their net YPP was, and how that compares historically.

by KevinHD on Aug 18, 2010 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

See? Now THAT is how it's done.

A quick couple of points on Pythagorean expectation.

First, yes, under PE Iowa overperformed last year. But under the same metric, Iowa should have had a winning % of .881 in 2008, which translates to 11.45 wins in 13 games. Iowa won 9. We’re still not back to the mean.

Also, I still firmly believe that PE is difficult to apply to college football because of (1) short schedules, (2) uneven schedules, and (3) cupcakes. A team is going to have a higher PE when they play cupcakes, which is why the 2008 Iowa schedule led to an 11.45 expected win value. Iowa played Maine, FIU, Indiana, and Minnesota to a combined 188-12 score. That’s absurd.

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

Again

Regression to the mean is not a firm law that must be equalized within a certain timeframe. It happens over time, not necessarily in the course of a season or two. Just because 2009’s good luck didn’t perfectly equalize 2008’s bad luck, it doesn’t mean more good luck is on the way. Iowa could hit bad luck this year without breaking any laws of the universe.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

What does that even mean???

“regression to the mean is not a firm law” ??? As far as I can tell it is not a law at all. I am not a statistician but isn’t regression toward the mean basically a statistical measurement failure?

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

No, not really

It’s basically the law of large numbers: if you perform some experiment N times and take the average of those results, the standard deviation of those results approaches zero as N increases.

“Luck” averages out, but not on a short scale. The only sense in which “regression to the mean” makes sense on a short scale is that if you beat the average one time, all else being equal*, you’ll probably do worse this season than last. You’re no more likely to have bad luck than good, or vice versa, but you are more likely to have worse luck this season than last.

 * Of course, all else isn’t equal here; your baseline “average” will likely be different what with a new season, new players, different schedule, etc.

by SpartanDan on Aug 17, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but that's exactly the point

If the argument is “Iowa was lucky in 2009 and should regress in 2010” you can’t then say that regression to the mean happens over more than one year.

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Unless you say that the whole notion of predicting

fiuture football success/failure based on regression towards the mean = shit. Since it is a proven theory that shit happens. Ergo, using the associative principal – if regression = shit then Iowa fans = pissed.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes I can

Because luck can’t be shoehorned into two categories of “good” and “bad.” It’s a spectrum.

Say that X is the standard unit of luck. Iowa was pretty unlucky in 2008, so let’s say it had -3X worth of luck that year. If Iowa had just one X amount of luck in 2009, that doesn’t mean that the team still has a deficit of -2X that will be repaid in 2010. If luck actually existed as an entity, rather than a shorthand term we use to describe randomness, then that might be the case. It’s not.

When talking about regression to the mean in the short-term, there’s no certainty about the levels of luck. All you can say is that if a team was exceptionally lucky or unlucky, it’s not likely to be that lucky or unlucky the following season. It’s an extreme data point, and extremes don’t tend to repeat.

For example, 82% of teams that had a turnover margin of -18 or worse over the last decade had a better record the next year. Luck plays a big part in turnovers, so it’s no surprise that teams that were that unlucky in turnovers got better the next year. They had less bad luck to overcome. Obviously it’s not a solid rule, or else all of them would have improved their records. Personnel, schedules, injuries, and well, luck in other matters (like injuries) all factor in too.

We don’t know to what degree a bout of good or bad luck will change the following season, but if there was a relatively extreme amount of luck either way, it’s unlikely to repeat in the exact same way. We couldn’t say after 2008 that Iowa was bound to have good luck, only that it was unlikely to have the same or a greater amount of bad luck the following year. That’s regression to the mean in the short term.

Regression to the mean in the long term means that everything will get smoothed out to neutral luck. At some point, that -3X of luck will get cancelled out by positive 3X worth of luck. We don’t know when or how long it will take, but it will happen unless the distribution of luck in football changes.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right, I agree with that

But then how can you say that Iowa is due for a recession after a debt-fueled 2009 (as MGo said, not necessarily what you guys said, though it was implied)? If Iowa is -3X luck in 2008, +2X luck in 2009, isn’t it true that we don’t know where the “luck” will swing?

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

We don’t know exactly where it will swing. We can say something about where it is likely or unlikely to swing though, which is all I’ve been trying to do.

And for what it’s worth, over the course of reading all these comments here and preparing my own, I’m beginning to believe that Iowa had less good luck in ‘09 than I originally thought. This comment in particular was striking; reminds of of how 8-5 LSU in ’08 suffered through a plague of pick sixes, didn’t during ’09, and improved the record despite having a worse offense nearly across the board (defensive improvement helped there, though). I had forgotten how many of those Stanzi threw last year.

If I was to make the list over again, I’d probably not put Iowa at No. 1 again. And I would watch more Iowa games if they were on in the Charlotte, NC market where I live. Most big time Big Ten games get shelved in favor of ACC games around here other than ones where Ohio State is playing.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Clearly

Charlotte has not yet embraced the greatest invention in the history of mankind, indeed the universe, that is the Big Ten Network.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually Iowa was only on BTN twice last year.

They were on ABC/ESPN a whopping 9 times, FSN once (goddamn Big 12 TV contracts), and FOX proper for the Orange Bowl. The ABC games were mostly regional (aside from the PSU game, which was straight national, IIRC), but I thought all regional B10 games on ABC were also mirrored on ESPN/ESPN2.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

"FOX proper"

Boy, if there are two words that don’t go well together…

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Aug 18, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oxymoron

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 18, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your mom is an oxymoron.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Aug 18, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

And you mom is just plain good.

Tell her I said hello.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 19, 2010 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

She's dead,

don’t you keep up with these threads? Thanks a lot.

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Aug 19, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Either you're kidding

or I just put my foot in my mouth.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 19, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just ask EnergizerHawk...

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Aug 19, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Come on, man...

no need to bring THAT up again! Geez.

Going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.... Alright, I'll stop for now.

by EnergizerHawk on Aug 19, 2010 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, but there's a lot more room for it to swing down than up

You’re not any more likely to be truly “unlucky” this year than you are to be “lucky”, but you are significantly more likely to be less lucky than last year.

by SpartanDan on Aug 17, 2010 8:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, as a caveat, you are stating

It is unlikely to have the same or a greater amount of good luck the upcoming year.

Not

You are due for some bad luck.

If I understand you correctly?

by Bridgeloan on Aug 17, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Correct

No one is ever “due” for anything.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

So luck is now a meaningful construct for which you have developed a measurement

How is it that you haven’t you won a Nobel Fucking prize yet? It couldn’t be because you are totally delusional, could it? My theory is that each team has a finite number of good and bad faeries that aid or detract from a teams success. It’s called the faerie factor and I think it’s more plausible than the dreck you are shoveling.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about?

I used the X variable for ease of discussion. I don’t believe that units of luck actually exist.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well at Iowa there is only one X variable and it is

the number of Norm Parker’s toes! Currently X= 7.

luck can’t be shoehorned into two categories of "good" and "bad." It’s a spectrum.

I must have misunderstood this statement of yours because it sure sounded to me like you were quantifying “luck.” But I’m just a slow Iowan, so your speed probably killed me.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Because

It’s easier to me to write and others to follow something phrased like, “In 2008, Iowa had maybe -3X worth of luck, and in ’09 maybe one X worth” than, “In 2008, the number of random events that were not in Iowa’s favor exceeded the number of random events that were in Iowa’s favor, but in ‘09, the number of random events in Iowa’s favor exceeded the number of random events not in Iowa’s favor, though the margin in ’09 was smaller than the margin in ’08.”

And hey, if you start mapping out values like -3X, -2X, -X, 0, X, 2X, 3X, and so on, they form a spectrum, not two blanket categories with naught but a single adjective to distinguish them.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

In 2008, the number of random events that were not in Iowa’s favor exceeded the number of random events that were in Iowa’s favor

Now it’s “random events”; man that is just lazy and of very little entertainment value. But let me give you another shot at polishing this turd. What were these events and how do you know they were random?

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

For instance

Iowa finished +2 in turnovers on the year, but were -4 in a five-point loss to Northwestern. One of those turnovers turned into a Northwestern touchdown. In general, Iowa was a turnover-neutral team that year, but it happened to be terrible at turnovers in a close game and it cost them (or, the turnovers allowed a safe Iowa win to become a loss). Since turnovers are effectively a random occurrence (in that they cannot be predicted with any accuracy), then there’s some random events that went against Iowa that season.

Or, Iowa had only one turnover against Pitt, but it happened to come on the final drive of the game in a one-point loss. You have three quarters to overcome a first quarter turnover, but not much to overcome one with a minute to go. Bad luck, again.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

Completely Random that Corey Wooten is good at hitting Quarterbacks really hard… Completely random that a new quarterback throws several turnovers… Completely random that teams score tons of points against cupcakes but struggle to score against really good teams…

I get what you are saying, and agree that there is luck involved, but at the same time Wooten/Northwestern put themselves in position to have the probability of success… It may have been 25% going into the game, but thats higher than 20% and so on…

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

tone?

Year2 isn’t pulling these metrics out of his ass here. Football statisticians who show far better predictive abilities than “Joe Blow football columnist” are good precisely because they rely on these data points.

Our argument with his post shouldn’t be:
“YPP is a useless measurement.” It isn’t. Rather, we can argue why Iowa’s particularities make it a less helpful measurement of Iowa’s success than for the general football team.

Our argument with him shouldn’t be: “there’s no way to quantify ‘random events’ in football”. There is a way. One is to measure fumbles which have been shown to be largely random in most instances.

People make millions and millions of dollars betting on college football deploying these tools (and paying off Ronnie Harmon and Conference USA refs, durr.). Dismissing them out of hand is unreasonable. I don’t think these tools are great measures for Iowa, which is one of the reasons Iowa crushes the Vegas line so often.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

uhhh . . . in my opinion.

Dear Kluginator: pretend I posted an entertaining picture here. Please don’t jump down my throat. :)

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Am I that bad?

I am really just a pussy cat.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Naw, man, you're fine.

Just responding to this:

I can accept and respect somebody who gives me their opinion as their opinion but I have little use for those that dress up opinion as scientific and objective – unless they entertain me.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, that was kind of dickish but other than that and

the other stuff; I have been totally reasonable.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

It couldn’t be because you are totally delusional, could it? My theory is that each team has a finite number of good and bad faeries that aid or detract from a teams success. It’s called the faerie factor and I think it’s more plausible than the dreck you are shoveling.

I guess ‘the other stuff’ is a pretty wide net. Don’t get me wrong, I’m just coming to the defense of Year2 because he seems to have provoked hostility from a number of posters (not just you) that strikes me as unwarranted. Even if he’s wrong, he hasn’t been dickish. In fact, he’s been remarkably patient with people acting as if he’s spewing drivel when he’s not.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Spewing drivel"

I think I see your point, in that these “indicators” aren’t absolute rubbish. However, if they truely meant anything beyond theory then Vegas wouldn’t exist.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 20, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

That seems a bit over-agressive considering the explanation.

Using X as a variable to simplify the explanation seemed perfectly rational to me. Creating a variable for ease of discussions =/= quantifying “luck.” There’s been little hostility in Year2’s argument and he’s simply attempting to explain his process. I see no reason to jump up his ass.

The “slow Iowan” remark seems especially out of place considering no obvious efforts were made to discount the speed of the BigTen or Iowa’s football team.

by The Mexican't on Aug 17, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry Mex but my hostility

is towards the use of quasi-empiricism to prove a predisposed and baseless notion. I can accept and respect somebody who gives me their opinion as their opinion but I have little use for those that dress up opinion as scientific and objective – unless they entertain me. I will cease and desist and move on to another topic on another post for the sake of BHGP harmony. No biggie.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not opposed to your questioning of Year2

It just seemed like you may be a bit more upset than most. It’s not like we had an OBNUG situation on our hands.

I’m enjoying the discussion, I just didn’t understand the vitrol.

by The Mexican't on Aug 17, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I haven't mastered the internet nuance

I really was enjoying myself and apologize if I came across as angry.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's all good

It’s hard to have lively debates in SEC land without them devolving somehow, someway into a Alabama/Auburn slapfight. No references to Iron Bowls is kind of refreshing.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Get me talking about Penn State and

I almost become haughty.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Outside views are always appreciated...

And no, we don’t have any meth.

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Aug 17, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1 for OBNUG situation

I really hope you go bowling with those guys this year. December could be awesome.

Until our defense proves otherwise, it should be presumed they will be excellent.

by jtothep on Aug 17, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pigs not Pythagorean, please.

These two observations misuse statistics under the assumption that Ferentz coaches to maximize a low pps ratio or that a so-called Pythagorean Expectation should be assumed to be a valid baseline. This is the sort of pseudo-science I’m seeing more and more of in blog-world. There’s a lot of it over in someone’s basement in Ann Arbor. It’s neither reporting nor analysis, it’s just typing and graphing.

With a coherent, longterm successful coach who manages according to a contrarian ethic, its better to model his key metrics for success, not some basket of metrics that broadly mimic what 200 other programs and coaches do. Or, go back and reread SMA. For example, Iowa doesn’t try to beat teams 33-0, they actively resist that outcome. Also, please note that all of this talk about being ‘lucky’ to beat a very mediocre team like Ark State is just dumb, because it weights the Arkansas State game equally with the Penn State or Georgia Tech games. Given that it is the coach’s explicit goal to use games like Arkansas State to create a different team that can play with PSU, tOSU, GT, it is far more informative to ask if the coach achieved his goals in the Arkansas State game. (It was not his goal to score 50 to milk the polls, i.e., do what Stoops and most coaches do.) Iowa is explicitly a “developmental” team; that is the competitive advantage, at Iowa, when there is one. Paul Johnson received the most humiliating 30 minutes of football last January of his past 30 years; that was an outcome, not the expression of fortune.

If one looks at Ferentz and models Ferentz, the big concerns here are a possible secular decline in offensive production, Iowa’s usual problems with depth, and the nasty flip side of consistency: predictability. Otherwise, without looking at Ferentz and modeling Ferentz, all of these efforts to homogenize strategy and performance, and apply universal metrics to determine value and future performance are, again, just dumb. It’s like comparing a CDO with a municipal bond: they are securities designed to do different things. No one would ever say, Wow, buy the CDO, I have the genius insight that it posts a nominally higher yield.

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Aug 17, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Holy crap, it's like a 2007 BHGP reunion up in here.

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I KNOW!

I was trying to study pathology when I saw Brian Cook’s mug on Jeeb’s computer. I could not resist.

Maybe I should start commenting again. I miss you guys!

by dmbmeg on Aug 17, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

For those of you just tuning in,

this is dmbmeg, winner of the inaugural Marchifornication tournament and commenter to the stars. She was dominating these threads when you were all still in diapers.

(And yes, you should start commenting again.)

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  


 
 
 


"Kittens give Morbo gas."

by Bucketochicken on Aug 17, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is sad

I don’t remember the origins of the Vicki Lawrence picture anymore.

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think...

I said someone looked like Vicki Lawrence, although I can’t remember who it was. Anyone else remember?

I can probably resume my reign (RAIN!) of terror over the internets again. I don’t really have anything better to do with my life anymore.

Either way, I’m coming to shotgun beers with you bitches in Minneapolis (and maybe Chicago)

by dmbmeg on Aug 17, 2010 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seth Gorney

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Woot!

I think it’s worth noting that, if I understand it correctly, she is still the reigning Marchifornication winner. That was the only time it actually completed.

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 17, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, I won.

Not that anyone is keeping score.

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

whatever

I beat J Leman and got him to read your website! I’m the real winnar!

by dmbmeg on Aug 17, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was actually too shy to comment at Hawkeye Compulsion.

Plus, I found it late in its life. I think it had been moved to SBN 3 weeks or so after I stumbled upon the site.

by The Mexican't on Aug 17, 2010 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

You and me both

Unfortunately, I found the Hawkeye Compulsion at the nadir of Iowa football. Namely, the day the City Boyz, Inc. pics hit the web. Semi-ironically, I think I was led to the site by a link on Hawkeye Nation. Haven’t been back to HN since that day.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

We were only on Blogger for like a month when SBN swooped in. They wanted some of this nice stuff.

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

And you were happy to provide

Everybody won that day

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 17, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

But what a month it was

Packed a year’s worth of living into that short amount of time.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

All the football math ...

has screwed up my brain meat, but I offer a shoutout to The Hawkeye Compulsion.

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Aug 17, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's THE Hawkeye Compulsion...

…you can’t go screwing with the acronym. It’s THC muthafuckas!

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 20, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pythagorean Expectation

sounds like a discarded Ludlum book title.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 9:26 AM CDT reply actions  

And there is no Clayborn Factor. Thus, Pythatorean Expectation = Fail.

Also, The Clayborn Factor is a better Ludlum title.

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jeebs!

Before you respond, let me remind you: Brian Cook called me smug, which makes me the Obama of smugness. I'm basically Smugbama.

by Patrick Vint on Aug 17, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

[tips bowler]

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Next series

The next series of Spyhunter needs to be titled The Clayborn Factor

by edr247 on Aug 17, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Clayborn Supremacy

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Clayborn Factor?

Me gustan los estados unidos.

by hkobb7 on Aug 17, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Excuse me, sir.

You’re getting politics in my math. And I hate both of those things.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Adrian Clayborn defies your politics

Also, I thought it was the most prominent “Factor” out there, politics aside.

Me gustan los estados unidos.

by hkobb7 on Aug 17, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

C'mon

That picture is awesome.

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"

by ReadingRambler on Aug 17, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

It looks like Bill O'Reilly murdered Adrian Clayborn and his now wearing his face as a morbid trophy.

That, sir, is awesomely disturbing.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now see, I thought it looked like AC chopped O’Reilly’s head off and stood behind the carcass and posed with that beatific smile.

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1 for Beatific...

…1000 Kerouac points for you sir.

Uncle Allen approves.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 20, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll go ahead and say what no one else is willing to say around here...

Brian Cook has an ugly couch.

Keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, for uh, domestic, you know, within the city - that aint legal either, Dude.

by AcrimoniousAngerererer on Aug 17, 2010 9:42 AM CDT reply actions  

How can you look at his couch?

his hair is so silky. He’s a Suave man, for sure.

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Upon close inspection

Brian and Angela appear to have had the same adolescent problem

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Indianapolis Colts must have a shitty offense

Because they’re still deploying an Iowa walk-on at tight end.

by Terry Strauss on Aug 17, 2010 9:47 AM CDT reply actions  

Wait

Is this the walk-on safety they’re talking about?

Surely…his comments must be in jest?

by edr247 on Aug 17, 2010 10:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Also

Is it just me, or is Greenwood doing a Tyler Sash impression?

by edr247 on Aug 17, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Greenwood went "EPIC" in 2008.

Sash’s came last year. By the time Michigan came to town, Greenwood already owned the stupid-face-and-finger-point pose.

by The Mexican't on Aug 17, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Brett Motherfucking Greenwood?

Or, since he’s a walk-on, should it be toned down, like Brett Gosh-darn Greenwood?

Me gustan los estados unidos.

by hkobb7 on Aug 17, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

By Golly Greenwood


"All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again."

by Bucketochicken on Aug 18, 2010 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

/Denard Robinson’d

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

All this talk about expectations is giving me the August jitters. Its all conjecture.

I feel cautiously optimistic that the Hawkeyes are going to do big things in 2010. More optimistic than I did in 2006. I know the pieces that are in place and from the interviews I’ve seen over the past couple of years I think you can tell the team leader’s mentality is good. To me that is reassuring. I also agree that the offensive line doesn’t need to be “all world,” they just need to be pretty serviceable and the offense could be pretty good. I would hope they are able to put together extended drives though to help the defense not get worn down. If Ferentz can really get the o’line to gel with run blocking, the combo with the receivers could be very explosive.

by HawkeyeRecon on Aug 17, 2010 10:29 AM CDT reply actions  

Good stuff

Nice post. I have been arguing in favor of Iowa for over 2 years on that site with my michigan brethern. They keep doubting Iowa, I keep picking them and I keep winning

For sure, doubt the Hawks at your own risk

And, that luck chart/diary is garbage. I thought when it was posted and still think so now.

www.justcoverblog.com

by jamiemac on Aug 17, 2010 10:43 AM CDT reply actions  

LUCK: an eminently self-explanatory

objective and measurable condition.

ALERT: ALERT: INCOMING MORONIC SCATTER PLOT.

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Aug 17, 2010 10:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Also

I did a over/under post on Iowa last week.

There are some non-bitter, non-partisan fans in the Michigan fanbase. As you can see from the post, count me as one of them.

But, I just dont buy any metric that tries to assign luck. Too many situations that you can maniulate to get the desired results

www.justcoverblog.com

by jamiemac on Aug 17, 2010 10:58 AM CDT reply actions  

Somebody came up with the genius insight that you only win

close games if you are “lucky”.

Tell that to Bob Effing Gibson.

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Aug 17, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus, who's luck is it?

If a team wins are they the lucky ones or is the team that lost the unlucky ones?

So I tried the Barbasol and Rotel dip and I was very dissapointed!

by Amonra on Aug 17, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Both

A random event happens. It happens to be in one team’s favor, while it’s not in the other team’s favor. It’s good “luck” for that first team and bad “luck” for the second.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

You really are insane.

“Winning a game is a random event.”

I guess coaches should manage to exploit random events.

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Aug 17, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's not saying that skill has nothing to do with it.

As I tell pool opponents all the time “luck is the residue of skill”. If your LBs are fast and aggressive they’ll intercept a few more balls over a large sample size. But random events are definitely a part of football at all levels. Skilled teams lose games all the time because of it. If you can identify 2 or 3 situations where randomness definitely played a factor and screen for them, it can give you a better idea of how good a team really is (better than their record can tell you). Obviously, skill is still the largest factor, but as 2008 Iowa showed us, you can be one of the top teams in the nation and still lose quite a few games. Year2 is just trying to figure out to what extent the 2009 team’s luck played a factor in their success.

Some predictors (Sagarin), said that luck played a huge factor for 2009 Iowa. I disagree. It doesn’t make Year2 “insane”. Lot’s of very smart people who measurably predict football outcomes well agree that 2009 Iowa overperformed.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

David Byrne, on his art tour (yeah, his art tour)

did a presentation of Lincoln’s Gettysburg Adress on PowerPoint, to make a point. As might imagine, the speech wasn’t quite the same.

My favorite thing about being a Hawkeye fan is when we play these conventional power teams. Arizona won’t be as fun because a Stoops runs the show and they cam to Jesus (one would think) after last year. But I love bowl season when we interface with these guys who think football is a fantasy sport. Or like my buddy who was watching the Jets/Giants game last night at my house when he looked at me and said, “I’m so glad the Jets drafted Shonn Greene in the first round last year…what a steal.” I told him, “First round steal? you have no idea.”

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ya. This one.

http://www.norvig.com/Gettysburg/sld001.htm

How powerpoint blew up the Columbia:

http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB&topic_id=1

Stipulation: phony Sabremetrics do not define football. Confidence factor: 99.9999999%

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Aug 17, 2010 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Noooooo

More please, more!

Until our defense proves otherwise, it should be presumed they will be excellent.

by jtothep on Aug 18, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd for General Mattis!

!

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"

by ReadingRambler on Aug 17, 2010 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

That just got the first Rec I've ever given on this site.

You’re absolutely correct. What is “lucky”/“random”/whatever to a spread option team is completely differnt than with a 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust team.
If Leach’s Tech throws an int it is significantly less detrimental (and with as much as those teams passed, less “random”) than if a CPJ coached GTech team throws a pick (on one of their four passes thrown during the entire game).
That is just one example.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 20, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the only time luck truely factors is when a team that has no business winning...

…is able to pull it out somehow. However, luck only happens when a team puts in a lot of effort before and during the event. I would have to have a lucky day to beat Michael Johnson in a track meet- – however, before I could even compete (have a chance at luck to play a role) I would have to work my ass off to get to a competitive level.
Therefore luck is only part of a greater determinant factor.
If UNI had won the game last year, it would have been because they’d gotten lucky- – lucky that so many Hawks were hurt/suspended, lucky that an interception happened that took Iowa momentum, etc.- – but it would have also been because they worked their asses off in preparation for that game. Was Iowa lucky to have blocked an unprecedented two fieldgoals in a row? Sure. But it was because of the skill of the players (and UNI’s kicker having an off/line-drive day) who had put in the work, that it was even possible. If UNI was playing Eastern Illinois I’m pretty sure they win that on the second fieldgoal (if the first one even gets blocked).

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 20, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does this post from Team Speed Kills

Officially mark the death of the “Iowa is too slow to win” argument? Have we now moved on to the “Iowa is just lucky” argument? I, for one, look forward to the next chapter in the pseudo-science, irrational explanations of Iowa wins.

Thomas Jefferson: “I’m a great believer in luck, and I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have.”

Too high? What do you mean too high?

by The Bacon Explosion on Aug 17, 2010 11:18 AM CDT reply actions  

If Iowa is too slow to win, then so is 95% of the country.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Only 5% is faster?

The 11 teams in the SEC who aren’t Vanderbilt divided by the total number of FBS teams comes out to 9%…

Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.

by Kyle McCann't on Aug 17, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

My favorite is the Iowa Karma argument

a the Upanishads_of_the_Grid_Iron Blog. In a nutshell Iowa gets what they deserve and they deserve supreme, eternal mediocrity. It is the will of gods or a supreme being of some sort apparently.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought we had established

that’s what ARBHG is for

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Aug 17, 2010 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Lucky...

It was pretty UNlucky that so many of Stanzi’s interceptions went back for a touchdown… Though its difficult to find statistics on Pick-sixes, I am willing to bet Iowa was a couple standard deviations off the norm for college football…

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/02/pick-six.html

According to this site, a pick six is actually a -9 to expected points, when taking into account loss of field position. This made many of the games we played much more competitive than they probably should have been, and will most likely not be nearly as prevalent this year.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 12:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Imean,

one of our assistant athletic directors couldn’t even remember a season that there were more pick sixes! /Harty

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was it 6 touchdowns the offense gave up?

5 pick sixes and a fumble in the endzone?

If you take away four of those (the national average for TDs scored by a D is about 2(5 was the highest by any single defense)), that drops our defensive points allowed by over 2 points a game and increases our offensive scoring by about a point… a total swing of 3 points in each game… We would have been almost a top 5 defense in terms of scoring, and about 5 places higher in scoring offense…

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Iowa was 11th in generating turnovers

but 53rd in turnover ratio… If Iowa cuts down on turnovers, and only give up the national average of turnovers returned for a touchdown and the Defense produces turnovers at a similar rate Iowa won’t need to be much improved to reproduce results like last year.

 Though we lose three great coverage players in Edds, Angerer, and Spievay I don’t think it is unreasonable to anticipate this happening, as most of our turnovers were caused by pressure applied by the Dline. Also, our backs are a year more experienced, our receivers are going to be harder to cover, and Stanzi is statistically unlikely to have as bad a season… The only real concern is our Offensive line allowing more pressure to get to Stanzi/into the backfield.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stanzi could very easily have a bad season

I don’t want him to, and don’t expect him to. But this is not Chuck Long we are talking about. This is a guy whose career is filled with baffling stupidity one minute and sheer guts and moxy the next. I really think he cannot help but to be better, he is that kind of player who works hard and does all that he can to improve. But it’s no given. Will he lose his edge playing more conservative or will the receivers be much more open than in anytime in Iowa’s history? Time will tell. I don’t think anyone should etch it in stone that Stanzi will be significantly better. Accuracy for a QB seems to be something that is elusive for some players no matter how hard they try to find it.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

he'll be smarter but then he has to throw the ball

I always thought Bret Favre was fairly smart but he is an interception machine.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well he is the all-time INT record holder

And Favre has always been smart enough (he recognizes the receiver is double/triple-covered) but he just decides to say “Fuck it, I’m throwing it in there!”

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Even if he plays the exact same way as last year,

It is near statistically impossible for his turnovers to lead to the same or more points. Iowa gave up more points to opposing defenses than any defense in the country earned against their own schedule. I think it is most likely that he improves, but even if he remains the same, we should be better.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

And lest we forget,

Its not just “sheer guts and moxy”, but a whole lot of skill as well. Stanzi has the ability and arm to make every throw… He isn’t Chuck Long, but he is a legitimately skilled quarterback.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Am I totally stupid in thinking

that stanzi has more of the stuff the NFL scouts get gaga over than Chuck Long. He probably beats Chuck in the physical measurement stuff. Arm strength is probably a wash as well as touch. I would think that Ricky would have a decent shot at being drafted if he can knock off with the interceptions this season. Or, like I said, I may be totally stupid.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thats exactly what I was getting at.

heck, Mark Vlasik had a longer, more productive NFL career than Chuck Long.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Remember

Long was drafted by the Lions. That in itself, was a death sentence for his career.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 17, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

^This. Poor Chuck was doomed.

by txhawkeye on Aug 18, 2010 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

But has he ever been a starter?

I could see Ricky as a veteran backup. Which is a pretty good gig if you can get it.

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah,

Just ask Doug Pederson…

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Sorgi has compromising pictures of the Manning clan.

He backs up Peyton for years, and now Eli? Something’s afoot.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's definitely weird.

And I love that he can turn a game like the Jets-Giants MNF opener into a showcase for his talent so that his job as super-awesome-but-always-QB2 is never in danger. The TD he threw to Cruz while being absolutely blasted by a LB was great. I’m just not sure he’ll ever get the same opportunity as Matt Schaub unless Eli gets hurt.

by The Mexican't on Aug 17, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Considering what Painter looked like for the Colts on Sunday...

Peyton may be calling up his little bro pretty soon and begging to have his favorite clipboard-carrier back.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Chuck didn't have the strongest arm

But if a throw required a two inch window to be completed it would, much more often than any other quarterback, make it in there. He also consistently hit receivers in stride, on the correct shoulder so they didn’t have to change their momentum, enabling them to pick up extra yardage.

Stanzi isn’t that good, I don’t know who was the last guy I saw besides Chuck that could do that.

"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
–Thomas Jefferson, U. S. President (1801–1809), as quoted in Richard Templar, The Rules of Management (Prentice Hall, 2005), p. 112

by The Bacon Explosion on Aug 17, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Some of that is on the receivers too.

Long had some guys who could and did run very precise routes. It is hard to hit a guy in stride on a 15 down and out when they run it 12 yards one time and 18 yards the next. I think that DJK runs a very good route and his production shows it. If McNutt can do the same this season, Stanzi will lok much more Longesque.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

Stanzi isn’t consistently that good, but I would invite you to review the two TD passes he threw in the Arkansas State game. The first one was right on the money. The second one was even better. Also, the TD pass to Sandeman in the Orange Bowl.

by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Aug 17, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

but on a consistent basis Long could get the ball where it was at the most advantage for the receiver. Stanzi has shown flashes of this but not nearly as consistent as Long.

I also remind myself that we are comparing Stanzi to the best modern quarterback in Iowa’s history. Being compared is a complement.

 A strong argument can be made Long is the best Big Ten quarterback of the modern age. (At least when he isn’t compared to T. Pryor’s potential)

"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
–Thomas Jefferson, U. S. President (1801–1809), as quoted in Richard Templar, The Rules of Management (Prentice Hall, 2005), p. 112

by The Bacon Explosion on Aug 17, 2010 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we will learn very early if Stanzi has improved his accuracy and decision making

because the dude does not have a self-esteem issue. He is the same cat when he’s hot or cold. Chuck Long never (it seemed) gave the opposition hope. He hit every open man and even those who were not. Ricky OTOH gives me the shivers…ala MSU variety or Ark St. variety. Either way, the shivers.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you think he has far to go?

He makes some absolutely beautiful throws at times.

It seems like the biggest criticism (rightly) is that he’s too damn generous with the football. That said, most of his INTs last year came in two flavors: Indiana and lazy. The Indiana variety is situational and KOK has at least some culpability. When the offense is driving into a 25 mph wind maybe we shouldn’t throw the ball.

The lazy variety seems to have resulted in most of the STANZIBALLS. IIRC, all four of them (?) were on out routes where Stanzi didn’t step into his throw and put a softish rainbow out to the flat. A LB or CB jumped the route and had nothing between him and the endzone but miles of green. If Stanzi steps into those throws and gets them to the outside shoulder those are either short completions or dropped balls instead of points the other way.

by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Aug 17, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Stanzi gets too rushed in his head sometimes

The reason he does well on deep passes is that they require less precise footwork and timing. On timing throws he gets kind of amped up and is either overthrowing or underthrowing those passes due to his upper body and lower body not being on the same page. I think his success in the fourth quarter is almost a byproduct of fatigue. He gets synced up by then and is thinking less. Early in the game I think KOK rolls him out as a mechanism to help him get synced up as well.

Basically, if Stanzi cannot learn to slow down the game in his mind and improve on his footwork (oh, and learn when to bail out on plays…you all recall how excited we all were that Vandenberg actually threw a few balls away!) then it will be Stanzi 2009 all over again but with more open receivers but less time to throw to them.

I am going to expect Stanzi from the Orange Bowl. Outside of that interception he was controlled and reliable. He lost DJK at a key time in the game which hurt and KOK closed down the playbook at a certain point but I felt like the game was not too fast for him there and he even smartly pulled the ball down and ran with it rather than try the miracle throw at a key moment. All good stuff.

He clearly has lots of room for growth technically , although little need for growth in terms of his moxy and confidence. He does not get rattled and that makes him a rare bird. I just hope his footwork is improved and he gets some time in the pocket this year.

I think Ferentz is justifiably concerned that Ricky may try to win games rather than manage them though.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dont see him trying too hard as a problem...

His interceptions haven’t come like Favre where he puts the game on his shoulder and tries to do too much… they are more a result of telegraphing a play before it happens… Stanzi doesn’t seem to have that kind of ego where he needs to be the guy who wins the game…

Last year was his first full year as a starter. If he just stops staring down receivers, he will eliminate 2-3 of his pick sixes…

He should make reads faster, make decisions better, and the coaches should play call to take advantage of his abilities better. His mechanics also should improve, but thats less sure. If he stays healthy, it is very probable that he will be an improved player.

If he improves, and gets luckier that his mistakes don’t turn into points, we are looking at a SIGNIFICANT positive change from last year. Again, just his pick sixes/ fumble TD made our defense about 2.4 points a game worse and our offense over 1 point a game worse.

by BornaHawk on Aug 17, 2010 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

It seems almost funny that Bill Snyder

was Chuck Long’s OC because the dude had almost abandoned the pass at KSU. But yes, Snyder is a brilliant mind.

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

"has" abandoned

that is…

"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.

by StoopsMyAss on Aug 17, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Meh

I kind of think you’re overreacting here. Brian’s post basically restates what Dr. Saturday and TeamSpeed kills says, adds in Brian’s bad starter math (hey, at least you guys have some starters on defense, MICH has some turnstiles), and contains a poorly worded opinion by Brian that Iowa isn’t likely to be “lucky” to win those close games in 2010.

The “lucky team” analysis Mathlete did is fucking stupid and useless. Rag that all you want. But I think you’re taking a flippant Cook comment and making it into a Pete Fiutak-level disaster is somewhat unfounded.

Any Michigan fan would trade Iowa’s last two seasons for ours, and the MICH defense for the IOWA defense straight up, so I wouldn’t take this as some attack.

by ShockFX on Aug 17, 2010 1:02 PM CDT reply actions  

Why

is that “lucky team” analysis stupid and useless?

by edr247 on Aug 17, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

From http://mgoblog.com/diaries/luckiest-teams-2009-updated-michigan-2008

To try and answer these questions, I took my team PPG values for the full 2009 season and then "re-played" the regular season schedule to see how the season would play out if the teams played at that consistent level and the fluky plays were eliminated. All first half plays and any in the second half with the game within 2 touchdowns were included. Interceptions are included, fumbles are not. Standard special teams plays are included, punt blocks, on-sides kicks etc. are not.

He defines fluky in weird ways. Besides, most of his analyses just throw out things he can’t account for or define, which means he ends up basically giving the results of how a team did vs the expectations prior to the game. This results is Michigan being below inflated (because they are MICH) expectations, and teams like NW being above expectations that are low because no one cares about jNU.

It’s just bad, though diligent, use of stats to reinforce the echo Michigan fans want to hear that the team was just unlucky, not that it was bad. Luck can change quickly, bad takes time.

by ShockFX on Aug 17, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

What about the MSU game?

My best guess is that we are somehow considered lucky even though our final drive of that game was a text book final drive to closeout an opponent.

However…MSU’s scoring drive included a hook-and-ladder and completely busted coverage.

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

How is a busted coverage luck? In a sense, it’s lucky it happened on that play, but having more or less busted coverages isn’t a function of luck, it’s back to coaching and the players and so forth, affected as well by what play the offense just happens to be running.

That last minute score over MSU was awesome. If MICH is gonna suck, watching that game with both PSU fans (rooting for MSU) and MSU fans (rooting for MSU) after watching PSU smoke MICH, made my night a bit brighter.

I cheer for Iowa when they aren’t playing MICH.

by ShockFX on Aug 17, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

A team has a rate at which it has busted coverage. A good team might have a busted coverage situation on 5% of passing plays defended. That’s really good, but you can’t control when that 5% rears its ugly head.

If one of those busted coverages happens in the first quarter against a bad team that you end up crushing by 40, then that’s good luck. Especially so since you wouldn’t expect a good team to have blown coverage against a bad team. If one of them happens on a game-winning drive by the other team, then that’s bad luck.

Humans are fallible creatures, and you can never get that percentage to zero in any particular situation. At some point it’s going to happen late in the fourth quarter, and there’s nothing you can do about that other than driving your percentage lower to keep the space between the instances large.

Team Speed Kills -- SBNation's SEC Blog
If you're so inclined, follow me @Year2

by Year2 on Aug 17, 2010 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, say a lockdown corner has busted coverage...

…against an inferior team when that team is 80 yards away from scoring. You said that’s unlucky because it isn’t supposed to happen. But say, instead of it being 80 yards away from a score, that exact same play (as in, my first hypothetical never happened) happens on the 10 yard line, and the inferior team scores a touchdown.
Is that more unlucky? Is it equally unlucky with a worse outcome? I don’t understand how you extract and compare and quantify luck.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 20, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

I thought this when I went back to the source. Basically, he discounts the kind of clutch special teams and defense plays that are crucial to the game. How can he determine if a fumble was a giveaway or a strip?

To use some Iowa examples – Was Clayborn lucky against PSU? No, he pwnd an undersized blocker and did his thing. No luck against UNI, just a line drive kicker and some linemen/linebackers with some hops.

Luck is made by Chris Doyle.

by PackerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure if you read much sabremetrics

But the entire concept of clutch (at least in baseball) is in dispute. http://saberlibrary.com/misc/clutch/

To discuss your examples, Clayborn was lucky against PSU. Or rather Iowa was. The PSU coaches made the choice to put a 209 lb safety in their punt protection. If they put a 240 lb or fb at that same position instead, Clayborn may not get through. And after the block, the ball bounced just right and Clayborn picked it up clean.

Against UNI, Iowa was lucky they blocked the kick. Sure there was some skill involved, but 19 times out of 20 when UNI lines up for a winning FG, they don’t block that kick (or the next one). UNI had a bunch of other kicks that day that they didn’t block. BUT, Iowa was unlucky in that they didn’t recover that kick, or that when UNI did recover it there was still 1 second left.

by StevenDS on Aug 17, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Didn't Alabama block 2 fgs

against Tennessee and get praised for their grit and unwillingness to lose?

I guess the difference is that it was Terrance Cody and he could eat Eric Mangino.

by HawKCP on Aug 17, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

yep

which was stupid. They got pretty lucky, just like Iowa.

by The Final Gun on Aug 17, 2010 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be fair to Brian

3/11 is “about half” of half the defense.

I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.

by HoyaGoon on Aug 17, 2010 1:15 PM CDT reply actions  

I've heard so much "luck" talk

that seems to completely gloss over that 1) we lost our starting tailback before the season started, to be replaced by two guys with no experience, 2) We lose the cornerstone of our offensive line for several weeks, and whether he ever fully recovered during the regular season is debatable., and we had an RS freshman in for him, too; 3) We lose our starting QB for the last 2 3/4 games of the season.

Blocking 2 FGs can be called luck, but more accurately it is blowing up the opposing team’s special teams line twice in a row, the second time after a lack of knowledge by a player who was not adequately coached on a rule. The Indiana game had bad calls and a lucky bounce, but that fourth quarter wasn’t the product of a bunch of guys getting by on their luck. And we went conservative with about five left to go in the game. Once again, the whole luck concept is bolstered by all the INTs, which were frankly the product of a bad decision to toss deep balls into a 20 mph wind.

These are the games everyone points to as luck. Nobody ascribes luck to winning at PSU, at Wisconsin, at MSU. Further, does anybody not affiliated with jNW truly believe that, up 10-0 after one quarter and the way we were playing, we would have lost that game if Stanzi didn’t go down? I would never assume beating OSU, but without BAD luck, that game was at least at 50-50 proposition.

There are legitimate reasons to suggest that Iowa could do exactly as MGoBlog and Team Speed project they might. O-line is one example. But the whole luck angle, and the mathematical black hole left above, ring hollow to me. It has been said, in various forms, many times—in the life of every successful football team there are great decisions, awful decisions, and a few breaks, but none of that matters unless your team outperforms an opponent the other 80-90% of the time. Luck is nothing unless you capitalilze. Last year, this team did. What it hopefully learned from last year is what could drive them to meet the expectations this year.

A fella steps out for a two pound burrito and all hell breaks loose.

by Mr. Grizz on Aug 17, 2010 1:51 PM CDT reply actions  

I think a lot of people say Iowa is due for a regression every year.

Don't celebration when you score goal

by Big Boutros on Aug 17, 2010 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

All this math makes my head hurt

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Aug 17, 2010 2:38 PM CDT reply actions  

A few other points

As readers of Football Outsiders know, here are various indicia of “luck” that you can apply to football.

In addition to the criteria mentioned on this thread, there are others that aren’t mentioned. Some of them are:

- Injuries. Each team can expect to have a certain number of injuries, and games missed by starters. “Luck” related to injuries varies from team to team, year to year. In 2009, Iowa’s defense was very lucky (assuming you don’t count Bernstein their starters only missed about 5 games total) while their offense was very unlucky (they lost Hampton and Brinson for the whole season, Bulaga, Dace, Stanzi, Robinson and Moeaki, Wegher, etc. all missed some games).

Pop quiz: Which unit performed better on the season, Iowa’s offense or defense? And when Iowa’s offense was generally totally healthy in the Orange Bowl, how did they do?

Also, in 2008 Iowa was really “lucky” regarding injuries. Hardly anyone of importance missed any time (arrgh Shonn Greene 4th quarter v. jNW arrgh). That is never mentioned about the 2008 team. They were “lucky” with injuries.

- Recovery of fumbles. Not fumbling is a skill. Causing fumbles is a skill. Recovering fumbles is totally random. In Iowa’s losses to MSU and Northwestern in 2008, there were something like 7 fumbles total, and all 7 were recovered by MSU and NW. In 2008 Iowa was unlucky regarding the recovery of fumbles all season. I think the 2009 team was about average. But what would have happened if Evan Royster’s fumble went out of bounds @ PSU instead of being recovered by Klug? etc.

The thing is, determining “luck” in any given year, while a worthwhile endeavor, is a totally unrefined that lots of people attempt, imperfectly. Anyone who thinks they have figured out a perfect

by StevenDS on Aug 17, 2010 3:42 PM CDT reply actions  

continuing...

Anyone who thinks they have figured out a perfect algorithm is foolish, but there are many imperfect algorithms out there that do in fact tell part of the story.

by StevenDS on Aug 17, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

"People can come up with statistic to prove anything...

Fourty percent of all people know that."

Homer Simpson

Excuse me for my bellicosity. And spelling. Bellicosity and spelling.

by Blackheartnopants on Aug 17, 2010 4:03 PM CDT reply actions  

This is why I love BHGP

"There is nothing better than being American. If you don't love it, leave it. U.S.A. #1"- Ricky Stanzi, America's Quarterback

by Gookin on Aug 17, 2010 4:50 PM CDT reply actions  

All this football handicapping science is cool but

can we get back to what is really important – Wegher’s personal life.

the trailer hitch scrotum was my idea

by Kluginator on Aug 17, 2010 5:07 PM CDT reply actions  

I heard he had a sex change operation.

He’s worried about losing carries on the football team and wants to lead the field hockey team to glory.

"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"

by RossWB on Aug 17, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Isn't he from South Dakota?

Going, going, going, going, going, going, going, going.... Alright, I'll stop for now.

by EnergizerHawk on Aug 17, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude

Shut the fuck up Donnie

"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
–Thomas Jefferson, U. S. President (1801–1809), as quoted in Richard Templar, The Rules of Management (Prentice Hall, 2005), p. 112

by The Bacon Explosion on Aug 17, 2010 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fail

Trying to be funny, didn’t work out

"I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
–Thomas Jefferson, U. S. President (1801–1809), as quoted in Richard Templar, The Rules of Management (Prentice Hall, 2005), p. 112

by The Bacon Explosion on Aug 18, 2010 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought it was funny.

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 18, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure he was trying to tell you to...

…“mark it a zero”— at least he didn’t threaten you with a world of pain.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 20, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

This thread is crazy. Good show, chaps.

Iowa will win games this year because they are good.

What is the point in even discussing “luck”? People must just be bored.

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here"

by ReadingRambler on Aug 17, 2010 7:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Luck is when your opponent turns their back and you kick them into the ballsack from behind rendering them stagnant, like Michigan’s offense.

Perhaps my best years are gone. When there was a chance of happiness. But I wouldn't want them back. Not with the fire in me now. No, I wouldn't want them back.

by jebushchrist on Aug 17, 2010 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not at all

Luck is what you do at night with your wife when the kids are asleep and…wait, what are we talking about here?

"The possibility of physical and mental collapse is now very real. No sympathy for the Devil, keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride!" HST

by Dip-Shit on Aug 18, 2010 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

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