"Who me?" Reimagining Iowa's Football Identity
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 28, 2010 5:00 PM CDT
in Iowa Hawkeyes Football
325 comments
A hunter was searching for the tracks of a Lion. He asked a man felling oaks in the forest if he had seen any marks of the Lion's footsteps or knew where his lair might be. "I will," said the man, "at once show you the Lion himself!" The Hunter, turning very pale and chattering with his teeth, replied, "No, thank you. I did not ask that; it is his tracks only that I am in search of, not the Lion himself."
- Aesop
If you haven't noticed as of yet, opinion is in the air and so it must be time for the annual running of the polls. I'm betting that most Hawkeye fans are, per usual, bracing themselves for the slights and snubbery that typically accompany these preseason prognostications. You know these fans, right? Perhaps you're one of them...so in the habit of seeing their beloved football team undervalued if not entirely disregarded by media and rankings experts are these folks that if praise and accolades emerged instead they would channel Sir John Falstaff of Shakespeare's Henry IV -- "I see the trick in it!" For too many fans, Iowa football is not about reaching the highest heights, it is merely about overachieving.
"Is there any objective truth? Or must we finally accept that at bottom, in the end, philosophically speaking, there is no "real" or "objective" or "absolute" or "foundational" or "fact of the matter" or "right answer" truth about anything, that even our most confident convictions about what happened in the past or what the universe is made of or who we are or what is beautiful or who is wicked are just our convictions, just conventions, just ideology, just badges of power, just the rules of the language games we choose to play, just the product of our irrepressible disposition to deceive ourselves that we have discovered out there in some external, objective, timeless, mind-independent world what we have actually invented ourselves, out of instinct, imagination and culture?"
- Ronald Dworkin
Most people these days, if you get down to the nubs of it, are post-modernists...to the hilt. They cackle astutely at the notion of an absolute truth. Yet, the moment these preseason polls are released they unwittingly engage in the most violent form of hypocrisy. "Give me a fucking break!" is blurted as spittle drips down the side of computer screens the moment it is read that the Hawkeyes have been ranked behind Wisconsin by the Big Ten media or rated no better than 15th in the land by Dennis Dodd or the Associate Press or Sagarin or fill-in-the-blank. Or "Oh fuck" quietly crosses the lips as realization of a Top 5 national ranking sinks in to the cranial vault, knowing that with such praise hubris will most certainly run through the team like measles at a sleep away camp and unavoidably turn Ball State into Boise State.
Iowans pride themselves on their humility. It is their cultural ace in the hole in a society increasingly run amok with self-aggrandizing. But it is also, like any cultural attribute, limiting.
"What kills a skunk is the publicity it gives itself."
- Abraham Lincoln
"Too many people overvalue what they are not and undervalue what they are."
- Malcolm S. Forbes
It is our ability to rationalize that allows us to smoke and drink while training for a 5K road race and to believe our bosses are vigilantly keeping a steady insightful watch over our daily contributions to the company without us ever having to remind them, and it certainly explains how we can convince ourselves that justice will be served come BCS invitation time. Of course, it should not comes as a newsflash that college football is a beauty contest wrapped inside an empty boast. The best team notion is a fiction. The National Championship is a con, an advertisement that could not possibly fulfill its promise. As long as there's not a playoff, for a team to find the BCS Promised Land it must seduce the media folks and the public into buying into their badness, not their goodness. No one wants to see David and Goliath in a national championship game. No one ever has. I think we learned that last year, and the year before that and the year before that. The little engine that could is nothing more than an interesting item in the margins of the National Championship narrative. If you want to be relevant in this sport you need to be the David or a David, with full face paint and an anything goes public relations office. College football is dramaturgy, theater, and like a Jerry Bruckheimer film, it's not really going to matter that once it's over you're gonna be scratching your head at all the plot holes. College football is nothing approaching science...statistics, schmatistics. They merely serve the plot and if they don't, are ignored or debunked. No bowl executive gives two shits about a team's arithmetical ascendancy.
If Iowa is going to play for the national championship in your lifetime they'll need to channel Gordon Gekko, not Gordon Lightfoot. Iowa is going to have to express outrage when they are slighted from here on out, act as if they have been raped and robbed the moment a poll is published. Iowa needs to assert itself as the best of the best whenever asked. Iowa is going to have to unfilter the DJK's and not cringe at the Adrian Clayborn swagger (intended or not). Fade to black the typically restrained awe shucks and were just happy to be here nonsense. Because, frankly, the public and media believe if you're just happy to be here, then maybe you shouldn't fucking be here.
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."
- F. Scott Fitzgerald
For the 2010 season the Iowa Hawkeyes are the most underrated team in college football...and the most overrated team in college football. This statement is inarguably true and that just might be the problem. Lack of a fully developed identity is a classic growing pain. Teenagers, for example, look like adults yet act like children. It confuses them and everyone else. To me it seems that the Hawkeyes have finally settled on who they want to be when they grow up, they're finally emerging from their adolescent phase, the time when the teenager works on his adult game. Proving to everyone you're a big boy is not magic, it's attitude. If Iowa wants to sit at the bar and not be carded anymore it might help if they just start acting like they belong.
If you are a fan who wants this program to seriously sidle up next to Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Alabama, Florida, and Ohio State then brace yourself for the pressure...embrace the outrageous expectations, create it for Christ's sake. Because if you cannot stand the white hot heat of the public's trust that you will deliver each and every Saturday then you have no business complaining about the poll slights or that you always have to sweat it out come bowl season. This is a big boy business and only big boys need apply. And the best part is, it doesn't matter whether you are convinced that Iowa is the best team in the land. It only matters whether Iowa has convinced everyone else that they're entitled to prove they're the best team in the land. And if all this "Look at me!" stuff makes you squeamish, then fine...but know this, the guy performing in the center ring under the Big Top wearing dockers and a t-shirt...is the real clown.
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What is this "gravity" we speak of?
But merely a conviction in our minds!
Now, excuse me while I levitate…
[thud]
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
I don't understand.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 29, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a Fairfield thing
you wouldn’t understand.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Have you heard of...
…“What’s the sound of one hand clapping?”
A koan is a story, statement, etc. which can’t be understood by rational thought but rather through intuition.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
What’s the sound of one hand clapping?
Just go to a football game in Evanston for that answer. Oh wait, you said one hand, not one fan.
Okay, no I meant my statement to be understood rationally.
Albeit sarcastically. But there you go with intentions.
I was responding to SMA’s provocative comments on post-modernism. I’m personally 100% in disagreement with the “no such thing as objective truth” line of thinking. Hence the gravity reference. And I’m a fan of Bart Simpson’s answer to the “one hand clapping” question.
I think the ideas expressed by Dworkin above are a defensive reaction to living in a society where people with authority lie to us all the time. I’m not well-read in postmodernist theory. I know more about the natural sciences and the history of our understanding of them. In my opinion it is not possible to deny the existence of objective reality without erasing the entire history of science.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 29, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I liked your post and understood what you meant...
…I was just amusing myself (and trying to add to it in my own way).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, to be pedantic
Your last line should read: “erasing the entire history of physics.” Outside of the physics, all other sciences are just statistical “happenings” that are the natural result of physics. And since it is statistics, finding correlation is very possible, but cause and effect tends to be seriously blurred. And without cause and effect, objective reality is impossible.
This is why a-hole chemical engineers like me believe that it is impossible to truly understand science without having an in-depth knowledge of physics.
Eu-mans are made... of star stuff...
/Carl Sagan’d
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 30, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Billions and billions...
"Kittens give Morbo gas."
by Bucketochicken on Jul 30, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I approve of your pedantic tendencies.
Even if society may shun you for it.
I fully agree that physics is as pivotal in the overall world of science as you say. And it provides some of the best examples of where I think postmodernism goes wrong. I haven’t read any postmodernist theory. (More often that not I find the prose impenetrable.) I do remember some liberal arts acquaintances of mine back in my gradual* school days who were into postmodernism and am operating by the understanding I got from them of its key ideas (post-industrialism or “post-Fordism” and the thing about objective reality).
Many postmodernists apparently found inspiration in the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and were basically applying it in their disciplines in an “everything is uncertain” way, much like a lot of people think that Einstein’s theory of relativity means that “everything is relative.” When I explained that the magnitude of the uncertainty indicated by Heisenberg was only mathematically significant at the scale of an electron and essentially vanishes for anything visible to the naked eye, they were a little disappointed.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 30, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
so does this mean you're not going to be doing "top ten reasons Iowa will lose to.." this fall?
Are not-so-subtle jabs and self-deprecation allowed in this bright new dawn? Or will all 10 reasons be “fuck you, We’re Iowa!”?
Keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, for uh, domestic, you know, within the city - that aint legal either, Dude.
by AcrimoniousAngerererer on Jul 28, 2010 5:55 PM CDT reply actions
No, I wrote Top Ten Reasons Iowa Will Lose
as a big fuck you to those who had the audacity to question our supremacy. Tongue in cheek. Ironic. Sarcastic. All tools used to cover up my seething hatred for anyone who questioned it. That, and I was superstitious once we won that first game.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
If Iowa is going to play for the national championship in your lifetime they’ll need to channel Gordon Gekko, not Gordon Lightfoot.
Actually, we might have to channel both at the same time. It will probably sound something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzVn3LZpnZ8
Perhaps this is a job for FreekBass?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
I assume you were joking...
…but that tool may enbody, in bass playing, what SMA is talking about. He has to know he looks like a total douche, but he owns it, like he belongs there anyway.
We may not have natural swagger right now, but we have to own it anyway. One thing I’ve noticed about the USCs of this nation… when they lose they act like they’re STILL the top team in the land, which is why after they lose a second time the national media STILL has them possibly playing in the mNC.
I don’t like what SMA is saying, but I think on a lot of levels he’s right. Plus, I’ve only had one cup of coffee and those block quotes made my head explode. [Time to make another cup.]
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
That's also because
teams like USC back it up by beating the other big kids on a regular basis. Other than PSU, Iowa has a pretty miserable track record against the elites. Heck, our biggest problems in the Big Ten are from Bloomington & Evanston.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
@ Eyeheart
I was just trying to be funny, and since that comment was about music, I just picked the dumbest/funniest example of music I could think of. But you make an interesting point.
Regarding USC, the reason they are perceived as a “top team in the land” is, in my opinion, only related to their attitude in a minor way. They have a lot of history that helps them, and they have a pretty decent TV market. Finally, the “eastern” media has only so much time to pay attention to football out west, so USC is often their choice. And, in fairness, it is more fun to watch/write about/talk about USC than it is to do the same about Oregon, Oregon St, Cal, Boise, or Utah. And I say this as a certified USC-hater.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but USC has already put in their time...
…complaining about not being included and strutting like they deserve it. If I understood SMA correctly, that’s a big part of what he’s talking about. Yes, the winning is the number one thing, and they do that, but I was saying that in years when the winning isn’t there, or they lose to one of the bigs, they have the cache and attitude to still act like they deserve it. I think that’s what Stoops was talking about… “acting like you belong.”
Last year, if we had beat OSU at the Shoe we still wouldn’t have been in mNC contention. If USC had our schedule, scores, and record (with the imagined win over OSU) they would have been in the mNC picture. They probably would have lost out on that game due to the two undefeateds, but they would have been in the discussion beased on previous years’ performance. It’s an attitude thing that rubs off on the medias attitude about them.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions
But you have to be a "sexy" or productive program first...
then add the attitude. USC has big history, and then they add the swagger.
I hate to say it, but Iowa does not have the history, yet.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that's what this post is about...
…we have 30 years of playing at or just below the level of the “Sexy” teams. I thinks Stoops is saying it’s time to stop hoping we can play with the bigs, and it’s time to start “knowing” we can play with the bigs.
What do you think was going through DJK’s mind right before he took OSU to the house on that kick return? I’m willing to bet he expected he could do it (not that he 100% was going to, but that he knew he could).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Ahh.
I failed to consider the Tony Robbins power principles while reading this post.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
But we can't know it . . .
Until we see it.
We win a couple of those Rose Bowls in the 80s? Probably have it.
We don’t shit our pants against a great USC team in 2002? Probably have it.
We find a way to beat OSU in overtime and go to the Rose Bowl and demolish Oregon? We probably have it.
Really, until we can beat Ohio State or notch a BCS bowl win against a more legitimate “name” program than Georgia Tech (who is at or below Iowa in the national reputation pecking order) we can’t swagger because we haven’t earned it.
To semi-paraphrase philosopher/songwriter Kid Rock “It’s only braggin’ till you back it up”
I see your point (and if I'm honest I completely agree- - that's where my heart is at, but I want to agree with Stoops)...
…but please, don’t ever reference Kid Rock again (even if you’re ironically calling him a philosopher, the guy was in Joe Dirt essentially as himself).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
but we have not been playing at “sexy” level for 30 years. If you look at W’s, were are at about #25 to #30. Bottom line is, for every Michigan 85 we have 5 2002 Orange Bowls.
Running around saying Iowa is an elite program isn’t going to help if they don’t back it up on the field. It just makes people laugh.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
No, I agree (see above reply to Torbee)...
…but people laugh anyway.
I think the biggest thing is stopping the “we’re gonna lose an early season game we shouldn’t” meme among our fanbase, and all of those other negative tendencies that come up.
We started to see some of it last season when Ricky went down. There were a few fans who were like “great, now we’re gonna get blown out in the Shoe” but there seemed to be far more who thought and said “hey, we’ve just might have a chance.” We as fans NEED to think that way, so our team can start to think that way. The OSU game shouldn’t be dreaded every year- – we CAN compete with them most years, and maybe a simple attitude adjustment can start to turn that into an expectation.
I don’t put a ton of stock into the visualization before actualization thing, but there very well could be something to it (I think that’s part of the “swagger” of 86 PSU that someone else mentioned).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Spend a few minutes listening to
this guy…but only a few!
Or, if you have more time, read up on neuro-linguistic programming. It is a tool that can be useful but like any tool it has severe limitation. A hammer is best at driving nails but people use it for all kinds of things that it’s not designed very well to do.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I couldn't agree with you more, Eye
We do need to have that positive attitude. But again, how can we have it when that hasn’t been the history of our brand? I guarantee you all the Hawk fans would love to think “we’re gonna roll our non-conference slate and all the mediocre teams (such as jNW) on our B10 slate; we just need to worry about the big boys,” but that isn’t what we have been shown. If we had something to base it on, I’m sure that is how 90% of the fan base would feel, but we haven’t. Granted, maybe I’m an overly optimistic Iowa fan, because I really do believe we should only lose 2 games at most this year. But you can’t blame the populace for thinking the way they do.
No, I know...
…part of the reason I’m writing this stuff is because I’m trying to talk myself out of my own superstitions as a fan.
Last year, when Stanzi went down, a pall fell over the stadium (like everyone felt it was all too familiar… it was like you could hear all of the internet posters writing “we’re fucked” and it wasn’t even halftime yet). Since that day I’ve wondered if we fans had taken a different approach and went fucking crazy for Vandenberg, or just took the energy up a notch or something… would the team have played differently and thus would the outcome have changed?
We’ll never know the answer, but after a season like that, I hate having that nagging question.
I want to believe (but I’m the same as every other Hawk fan, so it’ll take some convincing). What do the Hawks have to do to convince us? Maybe we need to figure that out first before we talk about the rest.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
It is nice to think that the posative energy of the fans
could raise the level of an athletes play but the reality is that Vandy came into that game with zero prior game experience and probably little to no practice reps during the preceding week. I think the entire planet could have joined hands in some cosmic good luck Vandy chorus and the kid still would have stepped in behind the center and promptly crapped his pants. The awesome take from the whole situation is how quickly Vandy elevated his game once he was the primary guy.
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
But maybe the linemen would have fed off of it...
…or any other number of scenarios that don’t involve the kid behind Center. I know that logically you’re most likely right, but that’s the kind of fan I am (and I think I’m typical that way). I wonder about these things and they bug me for a long time. I just want to see us get over the hump and I’m willing to what-if and change the way I do things even if it may only help a little.
[In high school basketball I never used to take a shit before gametime— even if it was a 7 pm Tuesday game— because we seemed to win when I didn’t. I was a sixth man who rarely saw the floor. That’s the crazy, possibly bullshit world I live in.]
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair
there aren’t many teams that can switch to the no-experience backup QB and pull out a win. It’ll suck the wind out of any crowd.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Oklahoma
post-Bradford
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 30, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't follow.
Landry Jones stepped in to replace Bradford in the BYU game… which Oklahoma lost, in part because Jones couldn’t do enough to move the offense and score. He also stepped into replace an injured Bradford in the Texas game… which Oklahoma also wound up losing.
Obviously, Oklahoma did win with Jones, but only when he had the advantage of more prep time.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
What do they need to do?
One. Fucking. Rose Bowl. WIN.
When I was in undergrad (1989-1993) I chose not to go to Pasadena after the 1990 season, because, Hey, Iowa goes every five years or so and I’d surely be in better financial shape the next time. (they’d been in 82, 85 and now 90, so it made sense to me).
And that was 20 fucking years ago! I’m still waiting.
I went to both Orange Bowls in person, and enjoyed the experience (last year’s much more, obviously). But still, I know it is still nothing like the absolute joy and tingling I’d feel in Pasadena.
Until Iowa goes to and wins the RB, I’m just not going to feel like the fan of a truly elite, kick-ass Big 10 team. Because elite, kick-ass Big 10 teams WIN THE FREAKING ROSE BOWL from time to time.
I'll go too, and I'll dress up as Evy so no one on the team will dare to lose that game.
But what do you think we have to do to keep last summer’s downturn from happening. I mean I.C. was HYPED about the season, and then Hampton went down in practice and it was like “Whelp, there goes the entire season” across this half of the state. It was pathetic.
I’m just glad they turned it around so it didn’t feed that kind of thinking.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
If we're going to play for a MNC
we need to adjust the style of play just a bit. KF is playing the pro game, where his job is to win and nothing else matters. But that’s not the case here, winning is key, but we also need PR. Which is to say, we need to beat the teams we’re supposed to beat, and beat them soundly. We need to play these non-conference games and destroy the MAC-rifices. Run up the score. Make the voters who are not watching the games look at the box score and cringe for our opponents.
We just don’t do that.
It never gets to be easy
I'm not sure Iowa needs to run up the score if they can go undefeated against teams like a presumably undefeated OSU.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 28, 2010 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I know what you're saying
but the last second win against UNI and a close game against Arkansas State last year seriously hurt the perception of Iowa. Undefeated is great and makes everything easier, but if there are any losses, those close games hurt the media perception of the team
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Jul 28, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Not disagreeing.
But if they beat a previously undefeated Ohio State team, I’d also assume they were good enough to not be in a close game against Ball Akron State or the like.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 28, 2010 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
At the same time
We got more traction and respect for the narrow loss to OSU than we did from the rest of our victories.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
swagger counts
What the score is at the end is less important than how you carry yourself over the season. Ohio State didn’t excuse itself after all of the close games in 2002. LSU didn’t excuse their two losses on their way to BCS Bowl berth.
So what if you have struggled against Ohio State and Northwestern? You assume Iowa will win and get incensed when no one else does the same.
Case in point: the 1986 Miami team is the gold standard of swagger. What’s lost is that Penn State had tons of swagger too-but in a different way. The team, coach, and fans carried themselves in a way that made the Hurricanes eat a bag of decks.
Iowa needs to develop its own swagger to develop a national following.
by Cairo on Jul 28, 2010 10:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Swagger counts in the media, but it can also make you look like a complete douche.
Yes, swagger is important to get ESPN to give you run, and it is important to attract the attention of a lot of teenage recruits.
However, swagger is not Iowa. Iowa is about the farmer who is willing to work a 12 hour day (or longer during planting and harvesting seasons). Iowa is about the employee who is willing to be on-time and productive. Iowa is about getting 3-star recruits who will work hard under Chris Doyle’s watch all the time for 3 years in order to be all-big ten by junior year. Iowa is about the high school all-around athlete who will walk on and be happy in getting in on special teams hits for his career.
Finally, it would be rather absurd for Iowa to develop much swagger. We have simply not performed to earn that type of supreme confidence. We are 1-4 in BCS games since 1980. Our current coach is 5-3 in all bowl games, has won 56% of his conference games, and 60% of his D-I games. Under our current coach, we don’t even have a winning record against the in-state “rival” that has been through 3 coaches in 5 years and who we ridicule. It would be retarded for us to run around and act as though we will dominate every game before we step onto the field.
You know who has giant amounts of swagger? Miami FL, Ohio State, USC, Florida. Yes, those teams have had eras of excellence, but I also hate them all like I hate poison. If you have swagger, the chances go up that you will do a retarded dance before the game like OSU, or increase the chance that you will start a fight before the game like Miami FL. It will probably increase the chance that your coach will be a complete cheater like USC’s, or a complete egomaniac like Florida’s.
Like Cairo said above, Iowa needs a confidence but not an arrogance. While Tony Dungy may be a bit over-rated, the term “quiet strength” really fits Ferentz and Iowa as well. We won’t be flashy just for the sake of appearances, we won’t talk a bunch of crap to get referenced in a Lil’ Wayne album (Kiffin), and we won’t ignore morality to pry recruits away from the programs that will give those kids a bag of cash.
Yes, I hope Iowa keeps making it to and winning BCS games. Yes, I think this year is a chance for Iowa to do something huge. But, if my team has to act like a bunch of punks and be hated by 70% of America, I’m not sure it will be worth it. I would rather love America (and have it love me) than leave it.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
NFL decides it on the field
so Dungy and the Colts can do whatever they want. That is the issue. Once college football goes to a true playoff all this becomes moot.
This is such a cultural issue. There are people who will never blow their own horn at work. Ever. They find it unseemly. They put their nose down and do their job, and do it very well. Yet they also complain when the guy who does blow his horn gets the promotion. Gotta make choices in this world, then live with them.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
There are lots of teams with swagger that are still respectful.
Utah has swagger, for example. Stanford does. JoePa has had swagger for 40 years—it’s only in the last ten years that his age makes him look like a griping old man. If the same things were being said by a man half his age he’d be a model of swagger. Still, he keeps his team in line.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with everything that you say, and it’s one of the least important things you need. It could, however, be the difference between being selected #3 in the AP Poll and #2. If you want to compete at the national championship level, you need to bring everything you can muster.
Boise and TCU
proved that crushing your opponent and winning with dominance are not enough. Aubusrn has proved it too. You can occasionally get lucky and back your way into a NC game, but in most years you have to elbow your fucking way in. Iowa has not been in this position in 25 years. It is a short learning curve. And sure, we could lose two games and make it moot. But if this season is a one loss participant season, Iowa will have to seriously muscle its way up to have any chance. We don’t set the world on fire when it comes to “selection.”
Understand that I think we are a very deserving team but if we don’t blow our own horn, who will? The conference? The coaches of the teams we have played?
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Auburn is the one program...
that actually got shut out of the title game while being undefeated. While I have respect for TCU and Boise, their schedules are just obviously going to keep them out of the title game unless they are very clearly ahead of the other contenders.
With the schedule Iowa will play, they will most likely have to go undefeated, and have a few big wins (by 15 or 20 points or more) along the way. Even a loss to the best teams on our schedule (Arizona? PSU? Wisconsin? Ohio St?) would probably either be enough of a “sign of weakness” to the media/polls, or a game that keeps one of those teams ahead of us in our own conference (Wisky, OSU).
Also, I think if Iowa were tied with other programs toward the end of the year, it is a matter of us not recently having been in that company before that hurts us, not our swagger. We have not had a year with less than 2 non-wins (losses and ties) since 1960. We have not impressed in the biggest bowl games.
I think Iowa will need to earn what we get by succeeding for multiple seasons on the field. Other big programs have had to do the same. We will have to be/stay in contention for the Big Ten title, consistently make BCS bowls, and maybe even win a couple in a row to get the momentum that would allow us a shot at the national title. If we develop swagger, but we don’t do those other things, then we look like idiots.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
If this is true...
While I have respect for TCU and Boise, their schedules are just obviously going to keep them out of the title game unless they are very clearly ahead of the other contenders.
Then let’s have an honest system where they are NOT even considered. LEt’s openly say they are not eligible. Otherwise, it is like a rigged game. No one likes that.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
They can get into the national title game...
but most of the other contenders will have to have 2 or 3 very bad losses or losses to very weak teams.
Like I said, it would take a very perfect storm.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Which is the problem.
And is why SMA is calling it a “rigged system.” For an undefeated team to take a back seat to a 2 loss team something’s wrong. If an undefeated TCU or Boise can’t get in over a 2 loss team (or an average-to-good 1 loss team), then we may as well tell them that they’ll never be good enough.
by The Mexican't on Jul 29, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not that dire
as long as they are either the only undefeated team, or there is only one other they will probably get in. As long as there are 2 undefeated BCS squads, they’re not getting in though. Nor should they. It’s a hell of a lot harder to get through a BCS sched than a Boise State sched…. and that includes once they start MWC play.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
I'm still not worrying about the mNC...
… just give me the Rose (I’ll worry about mNC if were, like 6-0).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
We had an identity
We were the “bullies of the Big 10” It probably wasn’t a national identity but it was nationally known that Iowa was a tough team. It was also nationally known that we didn’t lose at home. We had the second or third longest home winning streak. By ’05 we had the national cachet to make the big run. Of course, we promptly crapped all over it and flushed it. We even became overconfident and underachieving “fat cats”.
Before we can talk about how screwed we are, we need to have sustained, not just three years but sustained, success. We also need to kill the King, which is Ohio State. We did that in our last good three-year run, which helped set us up as a national power. Didn’t even matter that it wasn’t a good OSU team we beat, we still beat them. to a pulp no less. Until we do that again, we’re just fooling ourselves. Big attitude and not backing it up is more damaging than “aw shucks” is self-limiting.
I agree that the team and fanbase often overdo the “aw shucks” thing. However, bottom line, we haven’t earned back our briefly-held identity just yet. I agree with you from the perspective that we should be mad if we aren’t at least in the top 15. You have to be there to have any shot at the NC most years, even if you run the table, unless you are a decades-long name brand team, which we aren’t. This team has done enough and has enough returning to expect some respect from the national media. If somebody wants to put us top 10, I agree, we should embrace it.
Still, image only matters if you have the bona fides, like blasting UNI instead of blocking consecutive field goals to escape your home field with a victory. To me, that’s what this year is about. That and killing the King.
A fella steps out for a two pound burrito and all hell breaks loose.
There are teams from BCS conferences
that once the first polls are released will basically be out of the National Championship picture. Just like that. That is how much of a beauty contest college football has become and that is how early the narrative begins.
If you look at wrestling, Iowa could have the awe shucks identity, which they don’t, because they can win it on the mat. Of course, they have a much more assertive attitude than that, to the point where everyone cheers against them at the national meet.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Totally agreed
that a BCS team, if not at least top 15, may have no shot. Polls have become a little more fluid over the last 5 years, but you’re right. The argument could be whether top 15 is enough. Five years ago, I would have said top ten, and I’ll give you top 10 if you want to get to the game with one loss. It should be noted, however, that in 2002 if OSU loses to Purdue rather than pulls it out at the end, Iowa, with no ranking or barely top 25, would have been in the NC game. Depends on the year.
Wrestling is an entirely different matter, because we are the Texas, USC, OSU…hell, the Yankees, of the wrestling world.
A fella steps out for a two pound burrito and all hell breaks loose.
This.
I agree. I was making arguments up above that I didn’t completely agree in (just for the sake of a thread, and the thought), but this is it. I much prefer being the underdog.
Maybe we just need to identify ourselves as the Top Underdog. We recognise that it’s not automatic that we’re mentioned in the same breath as USC and Florida and aOSU, but we also recognise that most years we CAN (not necessarily should on it’s own merit, but can because of the hard work we put in) be right there with them.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, Okie State may still have more overall wrestling titles
but you get the idea.
A fella steps out for a two pound burrito and all hell breaks loose.
Yeah, and by that logic Indiana won a wrestling title too...so did UNI for that matter
How about how many in the last 35 years…
Iowa – 23
Okie State – 7
As an issue of semantics...
Iowa has more titles as Hawkeyes than Oklahoma State has as Cowboys.
Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian
For the record...
Fuck the BCS. I hope Boise runs the table and gets screwed again and we can reveal the BCS for the ponzi scheme it is. There is no logical reason for a non-playoff to exist. It creates no upsets. It creates no drama. It creates no cool pairings of teams who will never play each other. I hate the BCS.
In heaven there is no beer. This isn't heaven, it's Iowa.
Forget the BCS
I just want Boise to be exposed for the fraud they are.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
Agreed
Besides, I like bowls. “Capital One Bowl” has so much more ring to it than “Round three of the NCAA DI-A playoffs”.
And they have been (kinda). I guess all the BCS nihilists didn’t watch the Fiesta Bowl last year. It looked like a goddamned high school football game.
Me gustan los estados unidos.
Did Boise look like crap when...
it was beating the likes of Oklahoma in 2006, or Oregon last year?
No, Boise is not ready to play for the national title. But let’s give them the credit they deserve: they are close to top ten team most years, and they can beat nearly anyone on a given day. Even if they do play on smurf turf.
And, having a playoff system could still incorporate the bowls.
National Title Game
Rose Bowl and Orange Bowl
Sugar Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, CapOne Bowl, Cotton Bowl
Etc, etc.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Boise St. is Exhibit A
of my argument. Undefeated, yet not even a chance to play for it all. Instead, it was Texas…a team that got a sketchy ruling in its final game which allowed it to go undefeated.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Spare us the Boise crap
If they played a Big Ten schedule every year they would have never made it to a BCS game. Hayden Fry talked about how we could get good players at the top of the depth chart, but could never get the depth needed to survive a Big Ten slate. I’d imagine that a lot of other teams who didn’t make it to a BCS game could have also beat Oklahoma in 2006, and Ohio State’s smashing of Oregon proved they were just a media fantasy.
Most teams
get sketchy calls along the way Alabama did, so did Iowa. That’s the nature of the beast.
Boise St gets hurt by strenght of schedule. They know it, so does everybody else. Also, they don’t have the size or depth to survive a BCS schedule undefeated. They seem blind that that though.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
The point is....
college football is a sport that provides for an ending of the year where several teams can beat everyone on their schedule and not sniff the NC game. In fact, it is possible one could not play in a BCS game. The system is NOT based on play on the field. It is a drama where play on the field is only but a part of the machinations that lead to participation in the NC game.
You guys are merely supporting the flaws of the current system. Which is fine. Just don’t bitch when Iowa gets screwed out of the NC game or the Fiesta Bowl or the Cap One Bowl.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I think many of us would like to see a playoff (probably not larger than 8 or 16 teams).
I don’t necessarily support the flaws of the current system. But, until those flaws change, I think we should want to try to breakthrough with as much dignity as possible.
For instance, Ohio State is considered by most to be the most consistently “excellent” program in our conference. Yet, because of the way they do it (slightly dubious recruiting, annoying arrogance of their fans, a bunch of punks who dance/fight their way onto the field and play slightly dirty at times once on that field), I absolutely hate them. I don’t want “my” program, who (I’m sorry, ISU fans) pretty much symbolizes my home state to the rest of the country for at least 5 or 6 months out of the year, to look and act like that.
And those actions and appearances are the negative aspects of what has been termed “swagger.”
So, Stoops, I don’t completely disagree with your statements/theories/ideas/facts. It is a blueprint that has been followed in the past and will be used in the present and future. I’m just not sure the ends justify the means for the Hawkeyes.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think we should want to try to breakthrough with as much dignity as possible.
This makes you a very good person and a terrible AD. I will assume you qualify as someone who sees the big picture and accepts Iowa’s fate as part of the flawed system. No complaints. I am just not one of those people obviously. I believe the system forces those who want to be on top to do things that might not sit well with them. This is true in more than just football.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
And I believe...
that your actions speak louder than your words. If you start doing “things that might not sit well”, well, ask Pete Carroll how that worked out.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
I understand the position which believes the ends justify the means,
however, I believe, and I believe the coaching staff does as well, that the means are the end. Especially re Coach Ferentz’s comments on how it would be OK to be Auburn, i.e., undefeated. I understand and agree that the system forces people to do things that may not sit well. Ferentz may rather the team play and act what he believes to be the ‘right way’ whether or not that leads to BCS measured success. He and the team are using a different measuring system since they believe the current one is dysfunctional.
by Off Either Tackle on Jul 29, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Bingo...Ferentz never whines about the rankings, the bowl selections and the ends
and he keeps his job because the admin shares his values but some fans do not. Some fans are pissed at the rankings, the ends feel like they got ripped off. This is a love letter to those fans.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
We can be pissed about the rankings
all we want. But at the end of the year, we have still gotten to the “right” bowl games based on our records and the final rankings weren’t too far off.
KF may have said last year that 13-0 with a Rose Bowl win is OK with him, but lets say five years from now we’ve won a couple BCS games and been kicking all kinds of ass, and maybe gotten hosed on a 12-0 season and THEN we’ll see if he says that.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Excellent point...
OETackle.
Stoops, I must politely ask you a question. Your answer will help me understand your overall viewpoint better.
Would you prefer Iowa continued on at its current rate (making a BCS bowl once every 5 years, and having to have the perfect storm to even have a shot at the national title) in a 100% clean manner in terms of recruting.
Or, would you prefer Iowa make a BCS bowl every other year, and have a legit shot at a national title once every 5 years, but with a very sketchy record in terms of recruiting violations?
I know you never mentioned dirty recruiting above, but I would like to hear your choice, nonetheless.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm in this to win a National Championship
We should have done that in 1985. We can do it now. It is possible. We don’t have to break rules. We don’t have to bend core values to the point of breaking. We DO have to bend some though. Humility and modesty are important and selling points. But we need to be like the wrestling team and have some serious “Fuck you” in our step. Not Ferentz…he like any CEO, he can be above the fray and should be. But not allowing DJK to ever speak with the media is a bit extreme.
Understand that last year when we were undefeated most people on this site and among the fan base did not believe what they were seeing. The only people that I think really truly believed they were perfect, were the players. They believed the outcomes. Once the fanbase, the meta-messages that emanate from the program start acting as though we are not lucky to be there, but are in fact all that and more, we have arrived.
It can be done tastefully but it cannot be done quietly.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Thank you for the explanation.
I now better understand exactly what you are writing about.
Let me make one more slightly sarcastic point, and then hopefully I will stop my constant arguing.
It says something to me that, last year, Iowa finally got some respect (SI regional cover) and promptly lost to jNW.
Iowa just does better when we are under the radar. Maybe someday we will triumph when the spotlight is hot, but it hasn’t really happened in the few chances that we have had (except for the 2010 Orange Bowl).
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Many people share this point of view
my argument is that we can either stay at that level, below the corn rows and accept that as our ceiling or grow into a greater role, with greater expectations which will require some changes in how we perceive ourselves and how we ask others to perceive us.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I understand your point Chazz,
But it’s kind of an apple to oranges arguement. In my opinion being ranked or respected highly has nothing to do with who or when you lose. I might be misunderstanding what you are saying, but being on the cover of SI and losing to jNW had no correlation to each other. Style of play, talent and match-ups have more to do with wins and losses than anything else. IMO. On any given saturday Iowa could have won or loss to just about any team in the country last year. I dont believe that being “under the radar” has anything to do with anything other than with the media. Your opponent knows what and who you are long before you play. Especially when you’re playing each other every year in conference games.I say play and WIN your games and the rest will take care of itself. You are a nationally recognized team in one of the best football conferences in the country. A Boise State scenario is a mute point.
Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian
You may be correct.
But, in my mind, swagger is also a bit related to things like mind-games and intimidation.
Certainly, our lack of long-term success against Ohio State is not just about talent, style of play, and matchups, right? We should have stolen a win or two during the John Cooper era, right?
Penn State was, up until 1995 or 2000, pretty similar in terms of quality, yet we now have a pretty good record against them. For some reason, we are not intimidated by them.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
I would be inclined to agree with you
except that our recent history, by and large, says otherwise. As Chazz said, we simply have played better when little is expected of us. I would say this is coincidence, except that after a few times, it becomes a trend. I will throw out the 03 Rose Bowl, because that USC team was flat-out loaded, but pretty much any year we have been saddled with high expectations, we have failed to meet them. And to go back to Stoops’ original point of the article, until we have met them consistently, we have not earned this swagger of which he speaks.
I think swagger might have played a role there too
Just from the standpoint that when Iowa got to Miami, they didn’t seem to be working as hard as USC, and were rather enjoying Miami (as any college-age guy would if he’s given license to do so). That’s a problem that will never recur under Kirk Ferentz. However, I think the issue one runs into when giving players license to have “swagger”, so to speak, is that work ethic and the like can be damaged. As the program adapts to its new national image, problems will probably decrease, especially with older players.
The best way, in my opinion, to avoid this issue is to be very subtle and strict while giving players license to speak freely (ie, let DJK know what he can and cannot say, but let him talk) and to do the majority of the “legwork” with the fanbase.
Me gustan los estados unidos.
This may have lead directly to the aw shucks-iness of KF...
…it’s like he remembers this and tells all of his teams “Don’t ever believe that you’re the best, because you will always have to work harder than the best just to be at their level.”
I guess my version sounds kind of negative, but I don’t think that’s how he says/means it. I hope you get my drift though. It’s like, until the season is OVER they can never accept where they are ranked because it would change right after you run the kickoff of the Orange Bowl back for a touchdown.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe it's because the flipside is...
…that when expectations are high, many of the fans say “there’s no way they’ll live up to that.”
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Boise St would never survive a playoff
Sure they can beat any national power on a given day, but they stand no chance of doing it three weeks in a row.
That's just bullshit
If you replayed that Boise Oklahoma game another 100 times you wouldn’t get that result. That will literally never happen again.
And if Boise State played Oregon at the end of the year instead of the first game they would get torched. Boise always has the home field advantage and they always mentally prepare themselves for their “big games.” Teams that play them fail to.
When Boise plays in the MWC, they will lose 3 games every year. Simple as that.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time.
Boise is not week in and week out the team that most other top ten teams are…but no one, and I mean no one, has figured out how the BCS system works better them. They are like a blueprint for how to break through. I dislike the fanbase and yet admire them all the same.
That blue turf is my EXACT POINT.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
You’re intelligently arguing about the BCS
I just want to bitch about Boise State. Here’s a simple way to fix the BCS: make SOS a huge part of the equation. If SOS were a big part, Boise State wouldn’t even make the Top 10.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
You cannot fix a house without plumbing or heating
it needs to be torn to the ground and rebuilt. Otherwise, everything is an awkward band aid and a cop out. I don’t like soffits that lower the ceiling to 6 1/2 feet and I don’t like the BCS…at all.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I'm ready for the BCS to go as well
and it probably will after its present term, because by then we will have four or five superconferences with title games, and probably a small playoff hosted by the major bowls.
But I think it’s also fair to say that it’s the lack of a playoff, not simply the BCS, which causes inequities. In the pre-BCS system, we would have been shut out of the NC game if we had run the table last year. We were not getting in ahead of Texas or ’Bama under any scenario short of a playoff. Is that fair? No. Should it surprise anybody? No, considering the ways in which we won and how we were just returning from self-imposed oblivion.
I don’t recall who was ahead of them in ‘08, but if Penn State ran the table in ’08, I don’t believe they got in under any scenario—the teams ahead of them, I think, won out. And they are a brand-name program, with some amount of swagger, and an offensive scheme with it’s own gimmicky name.
No amount of swagger gets you there some years, while, as I mentioned above, in 2002, even a bad ranking wouldn’t have mattered.
Boise is still a “mid-major”. If we have a great year and run the table, and its undefeated Boise or us vs,, say, Texas, we will go. Boise, through winning and beating BCS teams when it has had the chance, has earned its way to play the NC game if there aren’t two undefeateds , or a one-loss SEC team, due to the crush the media has for the conference.
Hayden got attention because 1) Iowa was the only team not named Ohio State or Michigan to go to a Rose Bowl in over a decade, and 2) Hayden successfully reintroduced a balanced offense to Big 10 football, including the forward pass, something only Purdue had seemed to hang on to. It was all set up for 1985 because in 1984, Chuck Long was the most accurate passer in the country, and he was coming back, Lloyds policy and all.
In 2005, coming off the epic finish in the Cap One Bowl and a shared Big 10 title, we had sophomore sensation Drew Tate coming back. CBS Sportsline magazine had us in its preseason top 5. I still have the magazine sitting around somewhere.
This year, we have Stanzi back, who is at least known on a national basis. We have Clayborn back, who is definitely known. Will it be 1985 or 2005, or better? That’s up to the team.
Memories are short. We tried the publicity campaign last year, through the SID’s office. It was a weak attempt, but a first step towards blowing our own horn. If we play dominating football, I don’t think it’s beyond Ferentz to talk about this team getting the opportunity to play for the NC. However, right or wrong, he won’t make that pitch until the Minnesota game is over.
A fella steps out for a two pound burrito and all hell breaks loose.
I disagree with this determination for Boise State to be "exposed."
Boise State is only doing what they’re supposed to be doing. They win all their games and at the end of the season they shrug their shoulders and ask the nation, “Would someone out there please try to beat us?”
Oklahoma was going to beat them by 50. Book it. Mark it. Nuff said. Why? Because fuck you, that’s why! We’re Oklahoma! TCU was going to beat them. Why? Because fuck you, Boise is overrated! Look at all that superior southern talent that TCU has! Now Boise has legitimately earned the right to say FTW, can any of you beat us?
Now they’re traveling 3000 miles to play Virginia Tech, and there’s a lot fewer people saying “VT is gonna pwn ur punk asses!” And a lot more people realizing that Boise is walking the talk and could win this game, too.
If you’re going to crown a true national champion, then somebody has to beat Boise State. We can either start hating Boise because they’re good enough to be another team in the Hawkeyes’ path to the promised land. Or we can realize that there’s no such thing as a “national champion” in college football until there’s a playoff — call bullshit on the BCS when the moment arises — and then still root for our team to win all their games.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 29, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you missed the genesis of a lot of the Boise hate.
Which has to do with many of their fans being gigantic assholes. This was particularly evident last December when it looked like we’d be playing them in the Fiesta Bowl.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Yeah, I rooted for them against Oklahoma...
…and then their fans shit all over any nice thoughts I had about them as a kindred spirit program. I still like their band members though.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm totally not high enough to read this post.
I’m also missing a copy of The Republic as well as a glass of merlot.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
Two things
One, your statement that most people don’t believe in absolute truth, and, following from that morality, is nearly right. Nearly. I think that the split on an “issue” like that (not really an issue, but it defines politics and worldviews throughout the nation, and the planet) is much more even than common knowledge would let on. The idea of a transcendent power or authority (I’m straying awfully close to religion here) is vital to the theory of absolute truth, and absolutism follows almost directly from a belief in a transcendent, omnipotent higher power. I’m channeling mostly Chesterton and Voegelin here, with a very topical knowledge of philosophy, so if I’m stepping on toes or getting anything wrong, my apologies. So anyway.
Iowa almost certainly needs to change its brand, but not necessarily to the Terrell Owens-Miami U stereotype that we all think of from major “swagger” schools. Personally, I’d rather just keep the quiet, complacent-seeming image while laying the biggest beatdown possible on any team that Iowa can (here’s looking at you, E. Illinois/ISU/Kent State/Michigan/Minnesota). There are others on the list, and those aren’t necessarily at the top, but I think the football team is more than capable of dominating all of those schools if both sides of the ball play to their potential.
Again, if I broke the BHGP rulez in the first paragraph /enters begging mode/ please, don’t hurt me!
Me gustan los estados unidos.
I wish I had read this before I made my comment above...
that was entitled “Swagger counts in the media…”
Good job, Hkobb.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but I think it was Plato or Socrates that once said...
…“Fuck the omnipotent BCS.”
To everyone still paying attention and talking about swagger:
Go back a few days on here and re-watch the AC hit on Tater-tot. Watch after Tate gets up.
Go back and watch that punt from the Orange Bowl.
Clayborn stands there flexing, looking like he wants another piece of Tate. He’s saying “That was me. Remember me.”
Clayborn stands there telling that punter “I was this close, and next time I’ll be closer.”
THAT is the kind of swagger that should define Iowa this year.
It’s not cocky, but it’s based on results.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Totally true
A little bit of “Watch the fuck out, the only thing between you and me (or me and the endzone, as the case may be) is your sorry ass” won’t hurt. I’m merely saying that Coach Ferentz would rightly keep it reigned in, partially because the Corridor area won’t tolerate a ton of garbage like some larger cities might. I agree somewhat with SMA in that regard. Iowa will neither win nor be invited to a national championship unless they (the university and the fanbase, not necessarily the players off the field) start having a more “gung-ho, kick ass and take names” attitude, for lack of better way to describe my mindset. Of course, I’m still young enough to have a decent amount of testosterone going, so that’s my outlook about everything. You should see me when I drive (not really me).
Me gustan los estados unidos.
I guarantee the Hawks have swagger
they just don’t outwardly show it. They go into every game fully expecting to win. They just don’t feel the need to tell everyone. And to be honest, what is the point of telling everyone? I love having the understated confidence of “I know I’m better than you, and I’m going to prove it by the end of the day.” A lot of times when you see people barking before/during games, to be honest, it’s because they feel like they have to. Because they feel like that’s the only way they can compete. It sounds cliche, but it’s true. They have to convince themselves that they are better than you, and convince you. Not by their play, of course, but by their talk. Which, frankly, is annoying as shit. I would much rather we keep going about our business the way we have. Because if we do, and we take care of business every week, we WILL be in the NC game. An undefeated team from the Big 10 is not getting shut out of the NC game, regardless of where they start in the rankings (unless an SEC team & Texas or USC go undefeated, in which case I don’t think it would matter where we started or how much swagger we have). I know this was very long winded, and really just ties in with Chazz’s post from earlier, but I think it is worth noting.
On a separate note, I think to say that the current setup doesn’t result in a true national champion is overstating a playoff setup. Unless you want to talk something like a 4-team playoff, it does nothing to determine who the best team is for the entire season, but rather for that 4-5 week period following. Yes, you have to earn your way there, but once there, the best team often times does not win. I would go a little further into it, but I’m too damn tired at the moment. In any event, go Hawks, I love this damn site, and keep up the good work fellas.
An undefeated team has been left on the cutting room floor
in each of the past I don’t know how many years. That never happens in any other NCAA sport. Not one. Not in Pro football. Not in high school football. Nowhere. It is a ludicrous system that allows for it and we have lived with it for so long we find ourselves making all kinds of hairbrained excuses for why it is acceptable or not the end of the world. Well, yes, it is not the end of the world.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
I never said
undefeated teams don’t get left out. I said a Big 10 team wouldn’t (as long as OSU ison their shedule). Unless, as previously stated, there is an SEC team undefeated along with Texas, USC, or Oklahoma. I’m not saying the system is perfect, but once you introduce a playoff, you essentially are saying “meh” to the regular season, not to mention, in no way does a playoff give us a “true” national champion. Do you really think Butler was one of the 2 best teams in the country this past basketball season? Hell no, and neither was Duke. But they won the games when they truly had to. Hell, they didn’t even have to win their conferences. And before we get into the “but that’s basketball, it’s not the same thing” argument – I’m aware, but it illustrates the point. And if you want football-based arguments, I’ve got those too.
I also think having the bowl system in place to have a reward for lower-tier teams is great. Without it, what are approximately 80 teams throughout the country playing for? You think the Sun Belt would be included in any playoff system? I don’t give a damn if Florida Atlantic wins every game by 40 points, they’re not getting a sniff, playoff or no. But at least they know they will still get a post-season game this way, and a chance to play a decent team.
A plauoff allows Iowa to be the humble pie team that
lets it’s play on the field do all its talking.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
My point is based on selection
if you want to get selected you have to put on your make-up and be a clown.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Or
You have to put your nose to the grindstone, win all your games, and let the clowns step on each others’ oversized feet and fall out of the way.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chazz...that is 1950.
I’m sorry to say, but it just is. I love that value system and I grew up with that. But…no, not any longer. College football is closer to the Academy Awards than it is to the NCAA basketball tournament.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Good
Because, as a result, people pay attention to college football throughout the entire season, instead of tuning-in for the first time in late February, over hyping traditional powers and whoever is hot for the last 1.5 weeks, being obsessive about the first round of games and then not paying attention again.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
People watch the regular season in the NFL
this isn’t basketball…which plays on weeknights.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
People will stop watching college football?
Because there will be a few extra games at the end of the season that will provide a more reliable and fair “national championship?”
Oh, yes thank god! Now we don’t have to watch Iowa play Penn State this year. It will all be sorted out in January and nothing else matters! I mean, the only REASON that we even WANT to beat Penn State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan, and the rest is because it might just lead to a national championship! What a load off my shoulders. I’ll be back some time in December…
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 29, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
If that's directed at me, I think you're missing the point
I never once said that we suddenly wouldn’t want to win games. But in the grand scheme of things, it greatly reduces the overall importance of the regular season. Think about, for instance, the Florida-Alabama SEC title game last year. Outside of those fan bases, no one really would have given a shit, because they would have both been playoff bound. And that’s just the first game that popped into my head. I’m sure there are many more. On the micro (read: individual fanbase) level, you’re right, it won’t matter whether there’s a playoff or not. But in the larger picture, it does.
doubtful
any playoff will probably be composed of only conference champs.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
You think so?
You really think the E$$$$$-EEEEE-CCCCC is going to be ok with them saying “yea, I know you had one team that only lost in the conference title game, but yea, we’re gonna take this 3-loss Pac-10 champ instead.” Not to mention, if it’s an 8-team playoff, what 8 conferences do they use?
The FCS has a great playoff model that I believe could be implemented to FBS.
I’m sure there would have to be some tweeks to it though.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Jul 30, 2010 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I agree with "great"
And that is my point. It really does reduce the importance of the regular season. Last year or 2 years ago, 4 or 5 teams from one conference got in. Does the 4th place team in a conference really deserve a shot at being called “National Champion”? I think not.
With 8 teams
you take the champ from each BCS conference and 2 “at large”. Since I’m sure they’d like to get congress off their ass for a change, you guarantee at least one of those to a non-BCS team, maybe both.
Realistically, this won’t happen for a long, long time. We’re far more likely to get a +1 deal from the BCS winners. Frankly, I’m OK with that. I love listening to everybody bitch and moan.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
The regular season does this as well
I still think you’re overlooking the cache the B10 has overall. Yes, if we were in Boise’s shoes, we would have every right to be worried that we would get passed over, even if we went undefeated. Because we play in, arguably, the 2nd or 3rd best conference in the country, we are largely going to get the benefit of the doubt. We can still be the humble pie team, just as we were last year, and have been every year under Ferentz. We go out, do our jobs, and THEN, if we truly do get screwed, we can bitch about it later. But to be honest, it’s all speculation at this point, because when have we ever been screwed over for bowl selections or anything else? Hell, we’ve gotten in ahead of other teams, because of us and the rest of the passionate fanbase. Again, I understand the premise of your argument, but up to this point it has been moot, because there hasn’t been a situation where we’ve gotten screwed.
That's because of the bowls we've been vying for.
Did you hear the national media talking about the Hawks last year when we were still undefeated? People literally said “I hate the Hawks.” Cowhead or somebody said, heading into the jNW game that they hoped we lost, and when we did more than one airhead said “good.”
Granted, they see themselves as the guard to the elite (which is simply self-aggrandizement- – and hey, whatever makes them feel special so they can look in the mirror). We’re gonna have to do something to break through in their eyes if we want more than a simple BCS game. I don’t care if they ever like us, or if we impress them, but we have to clear their expectations at least.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Hayden Fry knew about swagger
He took a perennial loser and did an extreme makeover. The Ferentz version of Iowa is a bit different than the original Fry concept. For a time in the mid-80’s he had the whole country buying the Iowa swagger.
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
Good point but
I am suggesting that if players display some swagger it is not something that should be tamped down. I am not suggesting we be a bunch of thugs, that is an overreaction to the notion of swagger. The Iowa wrestling team has swagger IMO. But the greater point I am trying to make is this, Iowa is on the threshold of being a team that the entire country can accept as a National Championship game participant. If we try to curtsey our way in there we will not make it. Because at the end of the year there will always be three or four teams to choose from. The chosen teams will always act is if they absolutely deserve to be there and will be outraged if they are not. In a beauty contest you have to be pretty, but you have to act as if you are the prettiest. It can be done tastefully.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
And Iowa wrestling...
earned the right to display that swagger.
When we started to do it obviously and outwardly (by wearing an roman numeral X on our singlets), and then failed to live up to it, we looked a bit like idiots.
I worship Gable as much as any other Hawk fan. But too much swagger can set you up to look like a bit like an idiot. Just ask Michael Irvin.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Clowns often look foolish...it's part of the trade off.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Iowa wrestling makes for a poor comparison
because they have achieved such a high level of domination over such a long period of time that they become a true outlier. I would argue that other teams hate Iowa wrestling and cheer their loses not so much because of the swagger (most people would agree that has been earned) but because they win so regularly that others (even casual observers want to see someone else get a chance. The wrestling community is all a giggle at the upcoming season because Iowa is ranked 8th in the preseason polls. Nobody really thinks they will finish that low but everyone can now entertain the possibility that their team could win it all rather than discussing who will come in second this year behind Iowa.
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
Also, wrestling really needs some flagship programs.
When your sport is slowly dying at the Division I level, you need some strong programs at the top to get some attention.
Football is probably not at risk of dying, as they are televised much more.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions
When did Iowa start to find their (goddamn I'm sick of this word) "swagger" in wrestling?
I honestly don’t know, but it could be telling. Was it when Gable (who has always had it) arrived? Was it after the second, third, fourth NC? Did we have it in the Big Ten before we took it national? Was it when a certain wrestler or wrestlers arrived?
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I can read that some folks here do not have it in them
to sit in the front of the class and raise their hands and say, “Pick me!” Instead you want to sit in the middle or the back and be selected over all those in the front based on some kind of belief in an objective, fairly applied system. Those days are so long fucking gone it is not even funny (in fact they never really existed, we just believed they did and now we know in our minds they don’t). This is a cluttered world we live in. You cannot sit back and expect everyone to wade through the muck to the bottom of the barrel to choose you. This isn’t Coyote Ugly. That’s a fairy tale. That’s a hollywood movie. That’s fiction.
Penn State still has the attitude, as does Notre Dame and Miami, that if they are anywhere near the top they demand to be picked. Deserve has nothing to do with it really. You deserve what you don’t ask for…
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 8:32 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think there are still times when you can...
still be selected by being quietly excellent. For instance, if I sit in the back of that class, and never say “pick me”, but I get all A’s in every class, and I take and get a 35 on the ACT, I will most likely be able to choose what college I want to go to and get my education paid for.
No, college football is not like that. However, no matter how much swagger Iowa could/will develop, if we don’t win ’em all, I think we will almost always be passed over for a seemingly equal SEC team, or USC (three years from now), or the hottest Big 12 team.
Now, if we are undefeated or are the Big 10 champs with only one loss, and we start getting passed over by teams with more losses or obviously inferior schedules (Boise, TCU, Utah) for a spot in the national title game, then maybe I will agree with your arguments on swagger making a difference. But, since we are Iowa, and since we don’t have the track record, it just seems a bit whiny to be concerned about those issues until they happen.
Again, I’m only disagreeing with you about the methods, not the facts.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Debates are healthy
my feelings are never hurt when we’re discussing the arguments.
Your use of the term whiny is a good and revealing one. Humble, modest people would sooner die than whine. But saying you are the only team in the state — and saying it sincerely — is not whining. It is drawing attention to yourself though.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Part of the confusion
may come from people thinking you advocate Iowa becoming Thug U to get attention. Having read all you comments, I don’t think that’s what you meant. You’re talking about advocating and adverstising. I’m fine with that.
I wouldn’t want to see Bloodpunch running around talking about how we are an elite program and how dare they shut us out because we aren’t. The performance on the field and in the TV ratings makes that a joke.
The only way Iowa gets to the MNC game is to be undefeated, beating 2 out of the big three (OSU, PSU, UM again eventually), pounding the hell out of a couple of lesser teams AND not going up against two other undefeateds with names like Florida or Texas. That’s the only way and no amount of “Pick Me” is going to change that. If we can win close to 100 games over the next decade, that equation may change, but I don’t see that happening. Bottom line is we’re a low-population state that will always have recruiting issues that hurt our depth.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
At one time...
our TV ratings weren’t bad, at least on ESPN. That might have been all the way back in 2002.
I can’t vouch for our ratings on national TV (ABC), but we seem to get increasingly more and more games, especially Saturday evening games. So that has to be a good sign, right?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
It is
but remember who we are playing on Saturday Night. OSU and Penn State. The Orange Bowl ratings weren’t all that hot. (That’s also a reflection on Georgia Tech) I’d like to blame it on a little bowl game burn-out…. except that the Fiesta bowl with Boise & TCU pulled more viewers.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
In fairness...
TCU and Boise were ranked in the top 6 in the BCS, and Iowa/GT were 9 and 10.
Did the Fiesta Bowl have a better date also? Is Monday, Jan. 4th better than Tuesday Jan. 5th? I don’t know?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
They were
but it’s not like they have the built in fan bases of the big schools. TCU can’t even fill their own stadium. Ever.There was probably some curiostiy factor since we spent all year hearing about them, but they were rarely on TV.
The Bowl Contracts have flexibility built into the pick process because the bowls don’t want to get stuck with a shitty draw. If Team X can’t sell tickets and attract eyeballs, they’re going to get jumped. Iowa has been the jumper in the past, and I really, really don’t want them to be the jumpee. Especially if a BCS game is on the line.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
No ESPN hyped the hell out of that game as curiosity of the year...
…and the best part of that game turned out to be the photo to the right.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Iowa is almost double the size of Nebraska
and West Virginia and nearly the size of Oklahoma. If your mindset is you are only as good as your resources then you will never make it to the top. Someone always has a few more built in advantages than you in life.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Good Points
Nebraska’s reputation was built before most of the country took football as seriously as it does now, Oklahoma has a direct pipeline into Texas and West Virginia is in the Big East and are 2-0 in BCS games, while we’re 1-1,
I may overstate the recruiting issues, coming out of 2004 KF put together a strong class, then 05, 06 & 07 happened and it was back to average. 4 & 5 stars want to go to hot shit schools so they can win. For Iowa to attract them, and continue to attract them even if we have a few down years, will take 10 – 20 years of really strong results.
Plus, lets not forget that we have a coaching change coming up sooner thatn I’d like to think. KF probably leaves after 2015. AND Nebraska joins the party in 2011 and we’ll likely be in the same division as them.
I’m not trying to make excuses, just trying to take a realistic look at the challenges that face the program.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
I think you just need...
roughly 3 or 4 years of excellence (we had a bowl win in ‘01, the excellent ’02 season, 10 wins and a bowl win in ’03, and 10 more wins and the New Year’s Heave/The Catch in ‘04) to get big recruits’ attention.
Also, a vacuum in their home state helps (Zook’s first year at Illinois was 2005, and we just happened to get some of our best recruits from Illinois that year).
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions
To get their attention
that’s fine. To KEEP their attention is going to take a lot of victories, with at least holding our own against the elites. After 02, 03 & 04, some hot recruits were looking at Iowa City, after 05, 06 & 07, they weren’t, KF had to go out and sort of “rebuild” the reputation. This season will be a big part of that.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
I think the rationale is that once you get their attention then
you can get the 4 & 5 star recruits that will help you continue for the next 20 years. It would be pretty impossible to have consistent top 10 team for 15-20 years without consistent top quality recruits.
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
I don't think there is only one way to arrive at the Promised Land
Highly rated recruits is the most obvious way. Iowa’s on-the-field performance these days is almost enough. I believe this year will be better than last year. They might lose one game or even two but I believe those who take the time to watch will walk away with great respect and convinced of our value. That just is not enough to ensure your place in the upper tier. You need to bang the drum. This is a cluttered mess this BCS. You always need to remind people you’re out there. Sad but true.
Boise State may ruffle your feathers, and read any post I have ever made on their on the field performance. But they have the blue turf and run the trick plays and win the highlight games and presto, they’ve gone from being a junior college (some 20 years ago)in the middle of fucking nowhere to near elite football status. They still play at midnight way down the TV dial and YET…they will get at least one #1 preseason football poll vote. That is….jaw dropping.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
But it's the success that has put them there
They could be doing all those things you mentioned (and really, they have been for quite some time), but if they don’t go undefeated, it means dick. I understand your point, SMA, but every time you mention a team or situation, the bottom line is, it all ties back to one thing: that team is, or has been, extremely successful. The hype means jack shit without substance.
I believe the reverse is true
the substance is limited without the hype. I think a McDonalds hamburger is about the most god awful thing I have ever tasted. More people eat them than any other mass produced restaurant item in existence.
Read Neil Postman’s Amusing Ourselves to Death. It is a bit dated but a quick read and points out the death of reason and substance due to a culture that now prefers images to words.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
See USC's week to week ranking last year
read Pete Carroll’s quotes from week to week. He basically said USC was much better than the results and would soon show up, while Ferentz often says Iowa’s results are better than the team’s actual ability. The media plays that shit on an endless loop.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Carrol
had a decade of ass kicking to build benefit of the doubt.
But I’ll agree that KF shouldn’t say that stuff.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Ferentz does not have winning a NC or even playing in that game
at the top of his priority list. He is unique as an elite coach that way. I think he did think that way after 2005 and then when it all blew up in his face he said, NEVER AGAIN. He is now do process oriented it isn’t even funny. And of course, that is how pro coaches are because they have a playoff.
If there were no longer a BCS Ferentz’s model would be perfect.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Process leads to performance
Performance goals are great, obviously they give you something to shoot for. But they also oftentimes lead you to look past the short-term. In fact I have no problem with them being process-oriented. Take care of the little things in front of you before worrying about the big things down the road.
Everyone talking about USC...
please do not forget that USC had several decades of history before they were worshipped by ESPN and the other media institutions.
They had 7 or 9 (a couple are debated) national titles before 1980. They had 4 Heisman winners before 1982.
Again, the substance usually precedes the swagger.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with what you are saying....
To a point USC’s media coverage seems to be national, while Iowa’s media is regional at best. What you are saying about substance has made USC’s and Carrols message of the team playing below expectations sound better than the regional message of Ferentz saying they played over there ability. Sometimes the Aw shucks, were just humble little Iowa schtick can and does come back to bite him in the ass.
Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian
But we're talking about football
I understand what you’re getting at, in fact it’s something I have to fight in my profession, but I just thought of a great example to illustrate my point. Texas Tech. Under Mike Leach, they were about as much flash as you could have. Record breaking passers year after year, a coach as cocky and confident as they come, and where did it get them? Nowhere. Hell, they didn’t even make a BCS bowl with 1 loss. Why? Because, other than that one year, they didn’t have a track record of success. And back to the McDonald’s analogy, you’re ignoring the real reason it’s successful-convenience.
Convenience...
…this is also VERY true.
The national media is LAZY. They don’t want to go out of their way to convince everyone that Iowa is the #1 team in the land when everyone is used to a handfull of teams passing the title around (Iowa not being one of them).
If it fits nicely into a soundbite or meme, then they’ll roll with it, but if not it’s just too much work. They already don’t have enough time to sell all the things they are supposed to sell for others, they aren’t going to waste their resources trying to sell their own opinions (which could get them fired).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
They hired Holtz for Notre Dame.
They hired May for USC.
They hired Palmer for Florida.
They still have Herbie for Ohio State.
They carefully study Oklahoma, Texas, Florida State, Miami, and the SEC every year.
They’ve got it figured out so that they’re ready to talk about the teams that are supposed to be relevant. If anybody else starts knocking on the door, they get all fidgety and whiny. “We dont WAAANNNT Iowa to be good. We want USCEEEEE!”
Meanwhile, the reorganization of the game via the principles of sports marketing research increases.
They sure as hell don’t want Boise in their mNC game, but if the Broncos go undefeated again, they just might be the loss leader that the BCS is willing to take in order to pretend they’re not a country club and that their system isn’t biased in favor the same small group of teams every year.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 29, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait...they hired May for USC?
It seems like your other examples (Holtz, Palmer and Herbstreit) are pretty closely tied to the schools you mentioned. What is the tie between May and USC? I seem to remember that he played at Pitt back in the Marino days…
by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Jul 30, 2010 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
He's talking about coverage...
…May has his dick permanently lodged in USC. I didn’t understand at first either, because Palmer went to USC, but the last couple years he’s been stroking the Tebow wood pretty hard (being a former QB and all).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 30, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Jesse Palmer went to Florida.
Before becoming The Bachelor and a crappy back-up QB for the Giants, and then moving onto ESPN.
Carson Palmer went to USC and is still collecting NFL paychecks.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Holy shit!
I need to pay more attention.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 2, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Wait...
…I’m talking about paying attention to the bachelor. Delete that post please.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Aug 2, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Sad but true.
(And at least some of it applies to football.)
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
If not for Knute Rockne
Notre Dame is Illinois Bennedictine. If not for Ara Parseghian, they are too removed to be relevant. The Miami pirate ship sailed for nearly two decades, at least two NCs and more 10-win seasons than I can remember. Joe Paterno has been HC at Penn State since you and I were watching “The Banana Splits” on Saturday mornings in our jammies at home. He also has at least 2 NCs.
We have done none of this. You’re right , some folks don’t have it in them to make big noise about Iowa. But, is that because of their personality or because this program’s history doesn’t back it up? Even so, as mentioned above, it wouldn’t have mattered for PSU in ‘08. Miami and ND are has-beens but, to paraphrase William Shatner, has-been means you once were, and may be again. The closest we have to that is Evy in the 50’s (too long ago) and Hayden, who lost every Rose Bowl. Coffee is for closers.
To perhaps further dissect your point, it’s not simply that midwesterners are too humble. Midwesterners hate phonies. There are schools which perrenially talk big at the beginning of the year, then inevitably get crushed, which have become caricatures of themselves. (Cal, Tennessee) The name-brand teams are not phonies—at some recently memorable point in time, they delivered, consistently. If we have a good year, and get to and win another BCS bowl, then we have something to talk about.
A fella steps out for a two pound burrito and all hell breaks loose.
Midwesterners do hate phonies
and so did Holden Caulfield and he never grew up and ended up in an insane asylum. I’m only slightly joking. The world is not always pure and objective. Don’t be afriad of some clown make-up every once in a while.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
So are you saying...
that my unhealthy obsession with ducks and the fact that I “just want to talk” with ladies of the night, are bad things?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
no, no, no
yes
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
If you would like to combine the two things,
there is this private and very discrete club I could introduce you to. There is nothing sweeterr than the smell of rendered duck fat and old ho’s in the morning.
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
That has to be in Okaboji
somewhere…
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Holden Caulfield
was probably the biggest phony of all.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Concur, what a sissy.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
So what you're saying is...
That Iowa needsto be a little of the “Homie The Clown” from “In Living Colour”? Cracking heads with a nickel filled sock, and not pandering to the kiddies.
Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian
Hi there
Avid BHGP reader, rare commenter here.
Stoops, I understand your point and think you are doing an admirable job of defending what you believe in. What I’m hearing though is an argument that I have a hard time agreeing with. That’s the thing about debates though, it’s almost impossible to sway someone’s opinion in the other direction and then keep it there.
I just have a hard time with the notion that, to paraphrase, the football world is a beauty pageant and you have to brag yourself to the top. A team has to change its morals and principals in order to get to the top. Why? Why does someone with the aww shucks attitude, we do it for the love of the game, we work hard, etc. have to change?
Iowa made it to a BCS bowl last year when a team with swagger (and I know you don’t mean Miami swagger), the same record as us last year, and with an excellent traveling fan base could have been picked over us. All I’m trying to say is, I don’t agree with the concept that the world is becoming more slimy, we need to become more slimy too.
Why can’t Iowa be a successful team without that attitude and show the rest of the athletic world that it can be done without all the show boating? Why follow the heard? Why not be the leader of the pack?
That is all for my ramble.
There is nothing worse than a sports fan with zero sense of humor.
2009 Iowa was the beneficiary of computer love.
Last year the human polls didn’t love us much but the computers were warm for our form. As long as the computers continue to play a major roll in the selection process then teams, like Iowa that lack marketing luster but shine objectively on the field, will have a decent BCS shot. Unfortunately, the humans make the BCS rules and if the computers keeping making unsexy choices then the humans will change the formula. Just a thought
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
If the bCS brass has it's way
Computers would not be included. That is merely a small concession to keep the BCS floating.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Stupid question but who are the BCS brass?
Are we talking media types who run the TV’s, NCAA/University presidents/ADs or local bowl bigwigs?
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
The actual BCS leadership
these guys and this guy
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Aww shucks...
There is nothing worse than a sports fan with zero sense of humor.
by stanzipants on Jul 29, 2010 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
We don't have to change...
…but we will need a perfect set of events to take place if we ever want the accolades that we may (probably) deserve.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm still not convinced of this
Hell, in 2002 we had the world in the palm of our hand…except for some game that apparently took place back in September against a team in red and yellow (or so I’ve been told). Hell, we had Trev (regardless of what you think of him) singing our praises, saying we were the best team in the country. That was only a few years after 1-10. Point being, take care of business, everything else will likely take care of itself.
And that was the first time since 1985, and the second time since 1958.
(Or so it would seem.)
I want to re-itterate that I like our current identity too, I’m just discussing other options.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
however
in 02 we beat teams like akron 57-21, utah state 48-7, michigan st. 44-16, 8th ranked michigan 34-9, and northwestern 62-10. And we still weren’t ranked till they were 6-0. last year we didn’t have any blowouts expecally against ranked teams we rarely even beat non ranked teams by more than 1 score. blowouts get you media attention. however in a big ten thats defenatly improving if you can beat ohio st, wisconson, penn st, michigan, and now nebraska or make it through that schedule with one loss you’ve got a great chance at a national championship. had we gone undefeated last year we would have been tough to pass up for a NC with our big ten schedule alone and the same will be true this year except the expectations will be higher and the media attention will be much greater can they step up? all i know is with ohio st, penn st, and wisconson all at home this year iowa citys gonna explode come football season
See...
Here’s my thing SMA. You want us to channel our Gordon Gekko and go against what we are. You’re right in saying that Iowans are modest and polite. But isn’t that who we are? Personally I enjoy being the underdog because I fear the top. I saw 2005. I witnessed firsthand what the hype did to us. I was in Ames for that shitshow. I don’t want to see it again.
It’s tough to explain. You’re wanting Iowa to have a fuck you attitude. But teams that don’t put up big numbers on the scoreboard don’t give off that image. When I think fuck you I think about coaches who aren’t afraid to run up the score because they have a point to prove. They are saying that they are on a different level than the teams they play. But that isn’t Iowa. That isn’t Ferentz. How can we convey that attitude when we win every game by 7 points? Ferentz will never bitch about us getting screwed. He’ll never complain like Mike Leach or Brian Kelly. He keeps it on the field.
So how is the fanbase supposed to convey that attitude when their team is squeaking out wins every week? How is the fanbase supposed to have that National Title or Bust attitude when they needed a last second field goal to beat Northwestern on the road? (That’s just a hypothetical) And maybe 2005 is at the back of everyone’s minds this year. I know it’s at the back of mine. Despite how the fanbase acts we can’t control how the players play or how the games turn out.
Our lack of sexiness and our margin of victory may always doom us, even if we go undefeated.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
On a related note...
while swagger may get the recruits’ attention, doesn’t Ferentz’s way get the respect of many high school coaches, parents, and colleagues?
If you are a parent or HS coach who is thinking beyond the next two years for your student, don’t you tend to think positively about Ferentz?
Does Iowa have Norm Parker, or Eric Campbell, or Chris Doyle on staff if Kirk Ferentz acts like Urban Meyer? Maybe, maybe not.
I think that humility and perseverance tend to have rewards that are not immediately visible, or easily-measured, but they are rewards nonetheless.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions
What world do you live in man?!
Sure, that’s what should happen but uh…people are stupid. Sit down with Ron Zook and then sit down with Kirk Ferentz. One will be relatively serious, maybe even a little boring, but will be truthful. The other one will be energetic, loud, and lie their ass off. This isn’t’ about humility or respect. Very few parents are going to walk out of a meeting with Kirk and say: Jeez, he’s a stand up guy and I want my son to play for him.
They’re going to say: OH YEAH YOU’RE STARTING NEXT YEAR AND YOUR ASS IS GONNA BE ON THE BIG SCREEN.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
Like I said...
if you are a parent or coach that cares about more than the next two years for your kid.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
and I think there are some out there who do.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
We are talking, of course about Seantrel's dad, right?
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
Obviously Seantrel's dad cares deeply about...
moral principles. Isn’t USC the capitol of morality? That’s why the song girls wear long-sleave sweaters.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Obviously
It’s also why they said that the sweatervest was boring.
I’m sure it’s true, he was boring. I believe he explained the system, what he’d need to do, hard work, studying, etc, etc. Kiffin threw sunshine and smiles his way. Kiffin was fun. Which one did he go for?
For a guy like Seantrel, this should be a business decision, what school and coach will best prepare me for a lucrative NFL profession. But for many of them, it’s not. It’s listening to the loudest recruiter with the shiniest pitch. Look at Fiedorowicz. He committed to the Zooker, with an offense that doesn’t even know that a tight end is. It wasn’t until the bottom started falling out that he switched.
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Jul 29, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh snap!
I didn’t know he was down with the Van Buren boys!
\Seinfeld’d
representing a whole group of people out there
by IPeeBlackAndGold on Jul 29, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
That's too much of a blanket generalization
There will always be parents like Sean Henderson who want to ride the coattails of their kids and achieve vicarious fame. Always have been, always will (see, eg any parent who encourages their daughter to do beauty contests). But there are a greater number of parents (and their kids) who are decent folk who want what’s best and see through the bullshit.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
But there are a greater number of parents (and their kids) who are decent folk who want what’s best and see through the bullshit.
That number is dwindling. More and more kids have a false sense of entitlement. They believe they are owed something big. They are able see that they will not get it at programs like Iowa. They have a tendency to want to believe the BS spouted by the likes of Zook and Kiffin. They want so much to get what they feel they deserve, that they can’t see through the BS.
Eh, I think you're overstating it
There will always be kids like that, but I don’t know that there are any more now than there were before. Hell, look at how many top RB recruits Carroll was able to pick up. Even if they were promised a small amount of playing time, is that really better than going somewhere they could probably be the starter? In any event, Ferentz has really built this program on the backs of lower-level recruits anyway, and I don’t see any reason it can’t continue. I’m not sure I see why we “have” to have the big-name guys. Hell, most of them that we’ve gotten have had disastrous results (see Kyle Williams, Blake Larson, JC6, etc.).
Haha
Well any time I think of big-name recruits at Iowa, he’s pretty much the first one that pops in my head.
We've also had
plenty of them work out just fine. See B. Bulaga. It’s a myth that Iowa crashes with all, or even most of, the big name recruits.
The program is built on 2 & 3 star overachievers, because that’s what they can get and they know how to develop them. They went after Seantrel for a reason. They probably watched the Reggie Bush HS highlight reels and said “wouldn’t it be great if we could land that kid”. But you also have to be realistic and not waste time on pipe dreams.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
You're right about Bulaga
But one recruit does not a trend make. Again, there is the list I mentioned above, along with such notables as Doering, Eubanks (his last 2 years at least), and Bernstine (admittedly an incomplete to this point, and has had to deal with injuries). Obviously they flame out for different reason, but we have had much better success with lower-level guys willing to work their way up. And while they did pursue Seantrel, I’m pretty sure once KF wasn’t willing to bow at his feet, that opportunity was gone, which I couldn’t be happier about.
Addendum
I also don’t see why we “have” to have the big name recruits. As I said earlier, we’ve basically built the program on the backs of unheralded guys. Sure, if we can get a 4- or 5-star that is willing to come in and earn his way, we’re happy to have him. But to state that we need to chase these guys is absurd.
You don't "need"
the 4/5 star guys. It’s possible to build a powerhouse out of ignored 2 stars. If you can just figure out who they are. Good luck with that. The highly ranked guys usually get that way because they are really fucking good. SI or ESPN looked at program success and the number of highly ranked recruits and guess what, there was pretty much a direct correlation.
To say that Iowa should stop chasing 4 or 5 star guys because we don’t really get very many and have had bad luck with a few is an absurd statement. Every program needs to land as many of those guys as it can.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
I'm not saying we shouldn't go after them
But we don’t have to make it a priority. And yes, there probably is a correlation between highly ranked recruits and success because of sheer numbers. Take a look at USC’s recruiting class this year. Literally all ranked 4 or 5 stars by Rivals. If even 40% of them pan out, that’s a damn good team. On the flip side, it really seems like the big name guys either become stars or contribute very little. Therefore, we’re better off looking for the guys who will work very hard to become above average. You can win pretty consistently when 70% of your recruits turn out above average.
Also, feel free to check out CFN's recruiting rankings revisited
Admittedly, a shitty, shitty site, but every year they go back 4 or 5 years and re-rank the classes according to what they actually accomplished. Iowa has pretty consistently made the list the 2nd time around. KF and crew have done a pretty good job of targeting the guys they want and getting them.
The biggest benefit to highly rated recruits:depth
2 and 3 star recruits are great, they just take time to develop. They are seldom able to contribute immediately, meaning that while the team on the field is talented, injuries can quickly change that. Whereas teams with a backlog of high rated recruits can plug and play, as 4 and 5 star recruits are given those scores because they are believed to have the talent level to contribute immediately, without needing s few years in the system to develop.
I love that Iowa can field great teams with 2, 3, and a few 4 star recruits, but until we can regularly fill out our rosters with 4 and 5 star recruits, the physicality of the BXI season will ensure that Iowa cannot consistently be a powerhouse team.
I'm not sure I agree entirely
You’re making the assumptions that the 4 and 5 star ratings are accurate. Which gets to the heart of my argument, really. Simply assuming that because we get highly rated guys equals success is in no way true (ask whatever Illini fans are left). The ratings are completely subjective (hell just look at the difference from service to service). There are plenty of times that the highly rated guys take just as long to develop as the lower rated guys (and sometimes longer).
I guess the basic premise of my argument is this: Everyone seems to think that by winning more, we can get “better” recruits (as judged by stars earned). However, my counter to that would be, if we GOT to that point without them, why do we need them in order to stay there? The answer is, we don’t. I think probably the bigger misconception comes in the form of thinking that we have to go after certain guys simply because they are rated highly. As I said earlier, KF and the staff have earned our trust in terms of their scouting abilities. No, not all of them have panned out, but no one can say all of theirs have.
I didn't say they never produce early
I’m just saying it doesn’t guarantee anything. What was Hampton rated coming out? Sandeman? Reisner? Lowe? Hyde? The list goes on. My point is, KF get the guys they think fit well, and if they need to be plugged in a little earlier than expected, the coaches put them in if they feel the need.
Higher stars don't mean better
It only means more likely to contribute sooner. The stars ratings are not about potential. They are specifically about how much the player is likely to contribute immediately, without having to spend a few years in development. As with any subjective rating system, accuracy is clearly an issue.
That’s where depth comes into play. When the talented “3 star” upperclassman gets injured, if his backup is is 4 or 5 star recruit, he should be able to fill in with little drop off. However, if the backup is another 2 or 3 star recruit who hasn’t had the time to develop his talent in the system yet, there likely will be a noticeable drop in performance.
The emphasis here is that the higher star ratings are not necessarily rated higher based on their talent, more in their ability to use that talent immediately. Ferentz has a knack for being able to spot talented players whose talent may not be immediately apparent to many others, or whose talent may just need a lot of development within the system.
Wow, apparently I have no idea what the rating system means then
I have always been under the impression that it is completely based on talent. It is expected that those guys will be better players, and the 2 and 3 stars are not expected to end up being as good, because they supposedly are not as talented.
It's not entirely wrong
The talent level they use to rate the players can only be based on recent and past performances. It is notoriously difficult to gauge a player’s potential. So the scouts assume that, given the players current skill level, he is likely to develop into a pro player, so he gets 5 stars, or given his current skill level, he would fit perfectly in the MAC, so he gets 2 stars. That’s not to say that the 2 star player can’t develop into a pro level player, it’s just that at his current skill level, he is not likely to contribute immediately on a top tier program. Conversely, 5 star players are no lock for the first round in the draft, as they may have already peaked in their development. So the star rating system does indicate how good a player is… at the moment. But it is a poor indicator of how good he might become. Kirk seems to have a knack for being able to spot the players who are likely to develop into good players, even if they aren’t as skilled as many others currently.
I'm well aware of all that
and it illustrates my point perfectly. People bag on the draft being a crapshoot, but what about trying to rate 18 year olds? Next to impossible. Ergo, why I really don’t give a damn how many stars our next recruiting class nets, and why I never have, and never will, pay any attention to recruiting, recruiting rankings, or anything else recruiting-related. If KF deems them worth pursuing, I’m inclined to believe it.
And of course 2 and 3 stars CAN become NFLers
But they’re not expected to, hence why they are rated as such. In the same way that an undrafted player CAN become a Pro Bowler, they obviously aren’t expected to, otherwise they would have been drafted. The rating system is very much a reflection of what is expected of said players, whether in the present or 4 years down the road.
Also
The stars are closely tied into the quality of the teams recruiting them, which turns into something of a self-fulfilling (though not necessarily incorrect) prophecy; i.e., if Ohio State offers a 2-star recruit, then they’re probably not actually only a 2-star talent.
Ceci n'est pas un blogue.
by Adam Jacobi on Jul 30, 2010 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
How many high school 2 and 3 stars should actually be 3, 4, and 5 stars if they'd had a coach who was worth a shit?
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
This is along the lines of what I'm saying
KF and staff target kids they think will work out, ratings be damned. And I’ll trust their judgement until proven otherwise. Obviously they do target some of the higher-rated kids and are unsuccessful in getting them. But I’m not going to fret about it. Recruiting well is all well and good, but development is the key.
by Brock8144 on Jul 29, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kids these days....
Every generation in the entire history of human-kind has thought the next had a sense of entitlement and wanted it easy. I’m sure millenia ago some elderly caveman (i.e. 25) was sitting there thinking “Look at young Thor there. What a brat, doesn’t want to work hard an carry things himself so he made this ‘wheel’ thing to do all the work. Insufferable kids, no respect for their elders and the tradition of dying by age 30.”
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Jaime?
How do I reeeech theeez keeedz!?
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you for your honesty
Personally I enjoy being the underdog because I fear the top.
See my very first block quote by Aesop. Many, many people share you POV. There is nothing worng with it either, if you are true to it.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't necessarily fear the top
But I do if we are seemingly arbitrarily placed there. If we earn our way there, the view is glorious. If it’s built on a foundation of sticks, I’m scared shitless.
That's all I'm saying
If we earn it, I’m all about it. But if it’s arbitrary (eg: pre-season polls) I want nothing to do with it.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
Yeah but this isn't a hill or tower or anything (I'd be scared too--I don't like heights)...
…the BCS is way more political (which is rarely between the two best choices).
My apologies if that was over the line, that’s all I’ll say about politics.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way
Who the hell quotes Aesop and F. Scott Fitzgerald on a sports blog? I graduated from Iowa with a major in English and Poli Sci. Did you graduate with a major in Snobbish Literature/Philosophy? Because I might want to enroll in the graduate program for that. You know, not really doing anything for a few years but just really taking the time to find myself.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
Aesop is read by children
That’s snobbish literature. F. Scott Fitzgerald is high school reading. Just sayin…
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess we went to different schools
I read Where the Wild Things Are as a kid and Tender is the Night in college. We read Dickens in high school. I never understood why. It’s not like I could comprehend anything they said.
And why does everyone like Merle Haggard. What’s wrong with George Jones?
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
There is nothing wrong with George Jones.
But he is not as good as Haggard or Waylon.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I really don't like Willie.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
There is nothing wrong with any of the original Highwaymen...
…except maybe Kristopherson when he dueted with Streisand.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't get me wrong, Willie is ok, I'm just not really a fan.
Kristofferson…eh.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Pancho and Lefty is the best non Flatt and Scruggs song ever performed.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Aesop is snobbish if your used to Dr. Seuss
Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian
I think someone should start quoting Merle Haggard and Terrell Owens to fix things.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I could quote Dennis Dodd and Pat Forde
and no longer be snobbish…but then I would be stupid.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, you should go with Merle Haggard and perhaps Emile Zola.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I’ll be rollin’ with the flow, goin’ where Alfred Dreyfus goes….
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
That's OK Bopper,
you can have my seat on the plane.
- Waylon Jennings
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
One could argue that our margin of victory stays where it does...
…because our coaches concede that we aren’t “there” yet. It’s what your coach does when he acknowledges that he realizes our team could be on the other side of the beatdown in a couple years. USC can run up the score because even when they are bad few teams can give them a mudhole stomping.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
This makes
the whole 55-0 thing even funnier.
Norm: Hey Kirk, we’ve really got ‘em on the ropes here. What say we just kick the shit out’ve ‘em? It’s not like we’re gonna get pay back from the goofers.
Kirk: Sure, why not. This should be fun.
KOK: I dunno fellas, that’s not real sportsmanlike…..
Norm: Shut up, Ken.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Yeah, I thought about the double-nickel when I wrote that...
….it was like we just couldn’t keep ourselves out of the endzone short of taking a knee once we got the first down (which would actually be more humiliating).
That game was like the first time I played my mom at NCAA 2010. By the end you almost feel bad for scoring but you just try to keep the clock running.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you are the first...
person I’ve heard of that played NCAA football with his/her mother.
And, if memory serves, we had second-stringers in for the 4th quarter for 55-0.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think they were in for the whole fourth quarter.
But for most of it, yes. I recall thinking that we could have cracked 60 if Jake could have connected with Chaney on one deep pass.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Okay, I've only "shown" 2010 to my mom (the Hawks to be specific and it blew her mind)...
…but I used to play video games against my folks when I was coming up, and it was as boring and one sided as you’d imagine.
(I’m an only child and Atari was really designed to be two player, so… but my mom dug Duck Hunt, mainly so she could shoot the dog when he laughed at her- – I better stop talking about my mom before Rambler shows up like Snyder on One Day At A Time.)
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 30, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I think my parents bought me the original Nintendo...
so that I would QUIT bothering them.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 30, 2010 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I think if we come out and piss pound our way throught the non-con schedule winning by double digits in them all....
KF is going to let KOK have free reign in Big XI, i.e. 2002.
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
by BStylin Hawkye on Jul 29, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Ohio State and Notre Dame fans
travel the carefree highways because they have been there and done that. It may not have been in the recent past but come sundown they can point to those undefeated seasons and national championship trophies that their predecessors earned and say “that is us.” Now if you could read my mind, you know I’m just saying it would be easier for us timid Lightfootesque fans to start expecting it after the team has achieved it at least once. But that may just be a summertime dream.
I really don’t have much of an argument to make but it was fun listening to Gordon again after many years. Thanks for bringing up his name.
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
Maybe we should point to the Grantland Rice Trophy?
That we won after the 1958 season. Which is as “legitimate” of an mNC as any that have come before or since. A lot of the Brand Name programs are still counting trophies from long before then.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 29, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually, we do
Iowa claims exactly 1 national title, and it is from the 1958 season.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
The university claims it, but oooooo so quietly.
Most people credit LSU with the ‘58 championship based on the final AP poll and don’t even think about Iowa. What percentage of football fans (and of football “experts”) know that the AP and UPI went for decades without even bothering to conduct their polls one last time after the bowl games? You mention the Football Writers Association of America (NAMBLA FWAA) to people and you get either blank stares or “that’s not a recognized national championship.”
If Iowa wants people to really think of the Hawkeyes as a mNC participating kind of team, we should be doing things like having Ricky, Adrian, DJK, et. al. posing with the Grantland Rice Trophy and saying, “I hope we can win ANOTHER national championship for Iowa this year!” LSU fans would get pissed, which you can look at as either a reason NOT to do it or a reason TO do it.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 30, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
All true
And while the FWAA title is not as prestigious (famous in all accuracy) as the AP/UPI, it is still considered one of the “legitimate” title organizations. And Iowa is certainly not alone in counting this as a legit title, how do you think USC and Alabama got to all the ones they claim?
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I'm cool with giving LSU fans yet another reason to be angry at Iowa.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 30, 2010 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Essentially this seems to be turning into a chicken-or-the-egg argument
SMA, for the most part, seems to be arguing that the teams at (or perceived to be so) got there via their swagger (however it may be displayed or carried), and followed that with enough success to stay there. Myself and others seem to feel that those teams got there via sustained success over a period of years, and once reaching that level, have developed the swagger consistent with said level. There’s generally no way to settle these types of arguments, so I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
I'm saying Iowa is bascially there on the field
they are not there in the perception department. If we wait for everyone else to define us we will not like the outcome.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure what your definition of there is then
I love the Hawks as much as anybody, but what level of sustained success has put us “there.” As has been previously stated, anytime we have had some short-term measure of success, we end up crapping the bed. We will start this year ranked in the top 15 (maybe right where we should be, maybe a little low), and if we take care of business, we will finish higher. But unless we finish 12-0 and get shafted because we aren’t “sexy” enough, all that will mean nothing. We draw enough to leapfrog some people to get to a BCS game. Happened last year. We will start high enough to make it to the NC game, should we earn our way there by winning. I’m really not sure how much more you want.
I guess I missed the rule that said only teams with records of sustained success
need apply for the NC picture. You just whittled college football down to 12 teams, maybe fewer. Not very American or better yet, not very democratic. I don’t think Ricky would approve. It is, however, very much in line with how Ivy League schools think.
Remember, I am saying the current system does not compute this statement:
…should we earn our way there by winning
If not for computers, it is conceivable that Iowa would have been playing the Outback Bowl last year.
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
by StoopsMyAss on Jul 29, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't say only those 12 or so teams need apply
But they have earned the benefit of the doubt. If you want to make the argument that we have planted ourselves as the 3rd best program in the conference (behind OSU & Michigan, if only for another year or 2), I won’t argue with you. But what does that “entitle” us to? And, yes, perhaps we were teetering on the brink of the Outback last year. But let’s not forget we lost 2 games last year. It’s not as though we were undefeated or a 1-loss team. I think once you’ve moved down to 2 losses, you’ve lost the right to bitch. Besides, I don’t see how we end up in the Outback below Penn Schtaaaate.
Another reason to love computers?
Besides /insert pornography joke here/.
Me gustan los estados unidos.
Advocating a devil (not THE Devil, mind you)...
…maybe it’s as simple as “you develop the swagger as you build and sustain success”- – maybe it waxes and wanes. Even USC didn’t get better, better, better, better. They’d be damn good for a few years and then have an off year where UCLA or Washington or somebody would take the conference. Same thing with how Michigan and aOSU used to do.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
If you have to win your conference every year...
to be considered an excellent football program, then God-help-us-all.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Good point.
As an example, USC tied for the Pac-10 championship in 2002 and ended up in the Orange Bowl because they lost the head-to-head with the other co-champion. The other co-champion was Washington State, who ended up playing Oklahoma in the Rose Bowl.
To me, this is a great case study for SMA’s argument. USC and Wassu tie for the conference championship in 2002. Eight years later USC is still an annual contender to win a MNC (albeit not this year or next year because of NCAA penalties) and Washington State is arguably the worst program in D-IA.
What is the difference between USC’s trajectory and Wassu’s trajectory from that point that caused such a dramatic change in their results less than a decade later? Obviously at least some of it is the change in coaches in Pullman v. the continuity in Los Angeles over the same time period. Some of it is probably USC’s willingness to play fast-and-loose with NCAA rules. But it seems like there’s something more, some reason why the Cougars couldn’t replace Price with another top-notch coach.
by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Jul 30, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Different trajectories
In a sense, Wassu had pretty much reached the pinnacle of its expectations, it is/was not a program built to sustain such lofty results. USC, on the other hand, had been down for a number of years and 2002 marked the point were it basically returned to its historic norm.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
I hate to say it...
but I think Iowa is a bit closer to a Wash S. than a USC. USC is one of the top 10 programs in the history of college football (and I hate that they are).
WSU is a program where things have to go their way to win a conference title once in a while.
Now, maybe Iowa is taking the steps more toward the upper echelon. We do have a nicer stadium than WSU, we have a higher spot in a better conference, and our athletic department will give our football team what they need to succeed. But, like WSU, we have a smaller recruiting base.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 30, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I strongly disagree.
I think Iowa is a bit closer to a Wash S. than a USC. USC is one of the top 10 programs in the history of college football (and I hate that they are).
I think USC is probably top five all-time. But Iowa is in the top 25, Washington State is not and Iowa and Washington State are heading in drastically different directions right now.
I recognize that your point is more qualitative than quantitative, describing Washington State as a program where “things have to go their way to win a conference title” dramatically undersells how bad the Wassu program is. Washington State has two Pac-10 titles since 1980. Iowa has five Big Ten titles over the same time period.
Even in 1999 when Iowa was 1-10 they were two years removed from a bowl game (the 1997 Sun Bowl) and two years away from another one (the 2001 Alamo Bowl). Washington State hasn’t been to a bowl game since 2003 and has precisely two Pac-10 titles since . They’ve won eight games in the last three seasons. Combined. Iowa hasn’t had a streak that bad since the Bob Commings era.
If your point is that Iowa is still very different from USC, I agree. But Iowa is more different from Washington State and the gap between Iowa and USC is closing with every ten-win season and every January bowl game.
by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Aug 2, 2010 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Not to stray too far from the topic but
Ferentz has a national rep as an Offensive line guru, so why does it seem more often than not that the only missing piece for an NC run is an inconsistent OL?
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
Bad luck on timing this year
Bulaga went pro, other guys graduated. It happens. To have a shot at greatness this year, KF will have earn that “OL guru” title.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Still straying further from the topic
How is it that OSU and Florida and USC and Alabama can keep their 5 star recruits for the full 4 years and at Iowa they head for the NFL as soon as they can. It seems that kids like Adrian Clayborn are the exception at Iowa. If all the early departed had stuck around last year…. well I no use in crying about spilled milk over the dam or as Hayden Fry so frequently said, "For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, ‘It might have been’."
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
In fact the only other guys I can think of that left early
are DC, Loveseat, and Spievey in the Ferentz era.
Bulaga
my gut tells me his thyroid condition had him feeling his mortality and he decided to get that NFL money while he knew he could. He may also have a big pile of hospital bills that need to be paid.
Spievey has a kid on the way.
And the other schools have guys leave early, too. We’re not alone there.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Don't forget
This year saw a number of kids leave early because everyone is afraid of what the next collective-bargaining agreement will look like – it is generally assumed that rookie salaries and bonuses are coming way down.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Regarding the O Line...
It is probably difficult for any program to have 7 guys (2 tackles, 1 backup, 2 guards, a center, and a backup that can play G or C), who are good and pretty experienced, and healthy for the majority of a year.
I think, with Ferentz (and probably Reese Morgan), you have to give them credit because they take guys like Bruce Nelson, Robert Gallery, Rob Bruggeman, and many more and develop them from nearly unknown to all-big ten performers.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair...
Nelson and Gallery happened with Philbin as the OL coach. I had some real concerns with Morgan initially because it didn’t seem like the talent developed under him all that well. To me, the difference between Philbin and Morgan is the difference between Steinbach and Mike Jones. Both were heralded as all-state O-linemen in Illinois, both were highly-regarded recruits. Both played well at Iowa, but Steinbach was (and is) at a different level than Jones.
Of course, there can be a lot more reasons for that, but it just seems like Philbin got more out of his guys than Morgan does. That also seems to be the difference between the offensive output in the early aughts as opposed to the last five years or so. That said, it appears that Morgan is getting better as a coach, the linemen are improving accordingly and that has a lot to do with our success over the last couple years.
by Abbas_Cincinnatus on Jul 30, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Excellent comment, Cincinnatus.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 30, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
The thing is
Your sample size of “Kids at Iowa who were four- and five-star recruits” is pretty small. That said, Iowa loses about the same proportion to the NFL every year as most other teams do, if not fewer.
Me gustan los estados unidos.
I think partly because he doesn't keep his best linemen here for 4-5 years, and the ones that develop here take 4-5 years to get to NFL level.
He’s (we’re) a victim of his success in that area.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
There are still interesting points being made.
And it hasn’t turned into a completely repetitive circle jerk.
I closed the Binns thread because it was the same bullshit we talk about over and over and over and over and over re: college athletes and drinking.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Also, we try really hard to not close threads around here.
We may be dictators, but none of us particularly want to stifle conversation (unless it’s the sort of brain dead drivel you can find on one of any number of Hawkeye message boards). But Ttat particular topic is one I find REALLY wearisome, though I’m sure we’ll also have cause to discuss it yet again at some point in the next year.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
I salute you.
I feel this thread has made some interesting points and sidenotes, and I appreciate the fact that you are allowing it.
Keep up the good work.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, this isn't Stampede Blue,
Not trying to knock the site,I actually enjoy a good number of their post and Shake is pretty funny, but that seems to be the only SBN site that I visit, that regularly shuts down threads, I’m glad the moderaters here have less of a trigger finger when things get a little off topic, because what the hell are we supposed to talk about, its the offseason.
Tigers love pepper... they hate cinnamon.
by White Lightning on Jul 29, 2010 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
PFFT.
Rambler, I think this is a challenge from Ross and Co. Where’s McCann’t? We can shut this shit down tomorrow.
by The Mexican't on Jul 29, 2010 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
We may not even need McCann't.
I need one person to keep me going. Just one. I can get this thread to 1000 comments by myself, but it’s not as fun.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
No you can't
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Really?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 30, 2010 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions
The one thing this thread is missing is a gratuitous mole rat photo.
If you feel like singing along, don't.
James Taylor
I'm OK with that.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 29, 2010 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Has a thousand been reached since wrestling nationals?
Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian
So...
You’re a nice dictator?
In all seriousness, though, I do like the way BHGP is run. Whenever I get mad at the management/authors, I click my way over to a lot of other teams’ blogs and realize how well-written and handled the Pants really are. So, to Messrs. Jacobi, WB, HS, SMA, Christ, and Mustache Ride your accolades are well-deserved.
Oh, and my cousin (also a Hawkeye fan) reads the Iowa Rivals and Iowa Scout message boards all the time. Total crap, almost as bad as the ESPN comments section. /puke/
Me gustan los estados unidos.
I'm outta here...
…but I’ll close by saying
We deserve as much as any of those bullshit Clown programs that SMA is talking about, so long as we show as a team what all the fans know the team is capable of.
That and: Fuck You We’re Iowa
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 29, 2010 4:12 PM CDT reply actions
Three Options
1. Playoffs.
2. Prioritize the BCS championship game and all that comes with it. Suck it up and recognize that what SMA is saying is the (objective) truth about the BCS system. Pimp your brand. Jettison the “aw shucks” principles, which are a liability in the BCS game.
3. Take the advice of Bo Schembechler, circa 1968:
If there are any Big Ten teams that shoot for a national championship, they’re damn fools…You play to win the Big Ten championship, and if you win it and go to the Rose Bowl and win it, then you’ve had a great season. If they choose to vote you number one, then you’re the national champion. But a national champion is a mythical national champion, and I think you guys ought to know that. It’s mythical.
Even with the “national championship games” that are played these days, the essence of these words are still true. And Big Ten championships are still won on the field.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
Bo is right, but do it the JoePa way.
Undefeated season. We never worried about MNCs or bowl bids, and although Joe strictly forbade discussing the big game with Alabama in three weeks if we still had to play 1-4 Rutgers and 0-5 Temple, an undefeated season was always the main priority in the back of everyone’s mind. If you do that, the rest will take care of itself, and if the Man doesnn’t give you his big pat on the back, who cares about his opinion (Joe made rings for the ‘73 team that got robbed, and said "It’s unanimous, we think we’re number one.")?
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 29, 2010 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions
All you can do is take care of your own
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Jul 29, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Ferentz has taken an entirely NFL coaching approach
he is not even shooting to win a certain number of games. He is so process oriented that he is looking to win the next practice. Maybe just the next calisthenics session to start practice. I love the word calistenics. It’s so 60’s groovy.
Rambler…I know your still iiving off that National Championship. Don’t lie. Tell these people how sweet that is. A little soul to the devil and we Hawkeyes could have that maybe (he said looking over his shoulder).
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Penn State's tradition is great and I love it.
I’d love for Iowa to go undefeated, because Iowa deserves it. Personally, though, I get the most enjoyment from watching the 1987 Fiesta Bowl – our greatest moment – and when you take all of the circumstances from that game into account, I don’t think anything could top it.
But, yes, it is nice.
Friend of the Pants since 2009.
by ReadingRambler on Jul 30, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Good points about going undefeated.
It is very difficult to do in the Big Ten, of course. Iowa last did it in the 1920’s.
0. Go to a bowl game.
1. Win the Big Ten.
2. Win the Rose Bowl (or wherever the suits send you)
3. Go undefeated.
"In case you can't tell, I'm being sarcastic!" - Homer Simpson
by EastLosRandy on Jul 31, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you not remember 2002?
Pretty sure we went undefeated in the Big Ten that year.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
Maybe he meant...
going undefeated overall while playing a big ten schedule?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jul 31, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Cool anecdote
About the ‘73 team, I’d never heard that one, good story!
Me gustan los estados unidos.
I just wasn't made for these times...
…because THAT is exactly where my head is at. That’s what I’ve been saying since the clock ticked 0 in the Orange Bowl. I don’t care about the mNC. If we go, I’ll care. If we have a shot to go, I’ll be as excited as all hell, but it’s so far out of the team’s controll that I don’t sweat it.
I just want to see the Hawks beat aOSU and all other visitors, and if we win the away games we are expected to win I’ll be more than happy.
Rose Bowl bound is a heck of a consolation prize.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jul 30, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm aboard the Hawk championship train
Fuck the traditional weird Iowa fan superstition. Or whatever it is.
seriously?
It would be nice for a-nother Big Ten team to win that thing
"I wish you luck with a capital 'F'" - The Real Elvis.
Iowa "Swagger" is...
-Lighting up the upback, stopping on a dime and just staring at the punter
-7 got 6
-Throwing 5 interceptions and still managing over 300 pass yards
-One man shutting down an entire half of the field
-28 points in one quarter
-Back-to-back blocked field goals
-A true freshman’s first start going to OT against a national power
-A blocked punt returned for a TD
-Outrunning one of the best running backs in the nation to the sideline and dragging him down behind the LOS
Last year we had swagger. It was Iowa swagger. The team has swagger. Its calm, collected and no loud. And it gets the job done.
In heaven there is no beer. This isn't heaven, it's Iowa.
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