The Big 12 Is Now Undeniably Schrodinger's Cat
by RossWB on Jun 14, 2010 10:56 AM CDT
in Iowa Hawkeyes Football
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It all depends what you believe. Right, Dan Beebe?
As usual with this process, madness reigns. Consider this your open thread for the latest developments in expansion madness.
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I know it is crazy
But hearing nothing about the possibility of Texas to the Big Ten leads me to believe it is still a remote possibility. From a Texas standpoint the Big TwelvEN is still the best financial decision. Also, appealing to their Texas Pride it can be argued that their addition creates the super-conference to rival the SEC. Throw in Notre Dame as #14 and it is done.
Extreme longshot? Yes, but strange shit has been abounding in the last 10 days.
Too high? What do you mean too high?
by The Bacon Explosion on Jun 14, 2010 11:11 AM CDT reply actions
It all works
UT says “we’ll commit to a 10 menber Big 12”, then somebody else says “we’re leaving”. So it’s not a 10 member conference and UT is free to leave without looking like the bad guy, in their own minds.
History will probably say Nebraska destroyed the conference, but history will be wrong. It was Texas.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Yes, this.
Texas wants to avoid being painted as the bad guy in this process. Nebraska was the first scapegoat and now Texas A&M’s flirtations with the SEC have given it a new scapegoat. If A&M goes to the SEC and the B12 dissolves, it won’t be Texas’ fault, you see… they did everything they could, but those no-good Aggies just didn’t care enough.
On the other hand, they also genuinely do probably want to stay in the B12 if at all possible. Shocking that not everyone else is comfortable with having it be Texas and the Eleven Nine Dwarves, though.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
It's weird, this Texas pride thing...
…because usually the villain is the one standing on the sidelines, rolling in a bed of money, and saying “I don’t care about anything… look at all of this money!”
At least that’s the way it’s done at USC.
I guess I don’t see what’s wrong with blowing up the Big 12, or being known as the school that caused it. Hell, I’d take pride in blowing up the Big12- – I’m pretty sure Delaney does.
Honestly, everyone should be pointing the finger at Bebee. It was his ineptitude that lead down this path (from years ago). He should have done surgery on Texas a long time ago. He should have either demanded more equal revenue sharing or that Texas leave. Taking the hit of losing Texas a few years back would have hurt (find a suitable replacement and move on), but not as much as the conference imploding has. It was easy to not challenge Texas, but it wasn’t the right thing to do financially, and now not challenging Texas is shaping up to be a disaster. “Easy” isn’t a business model (ask Delaney, who has worked damn hard at remaining quiet).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 14, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see Dan Beebe hoping HE goes to the PAC-10
but Texas, not so much. I can understand why the Longhorns would not want to go. It is a marriage made in Vegas, at 3 a.m., after much Jagermeister. The sex might be good during the honeymoon romp right after they walk down the aisle, but in the morning no one is going to respect anyone.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
by StoopsMyAss on Jun 14, 2010 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
A quick thought here
If I’m ISU and the other expansion rejects, do I want Texas coming back to the conference? The rejects think they’re getting bent over regarding revenue discrepancies now, just wait till UT tells them they’ll only come back as long as they can have their own network in addition to more of the conference revenue.
I know it’s a giant roll of the dice if you have to find a new conference, which may or may not be a BCS conference, but I can’t see UT slinking back to the Big 12 and agreeing to change the revenue structure that has been a huge benefit to them or the rejects agreeing to keep it as status quo
"I know you're from Middle America, and sometimes you feel like you're representing more than just a school or a conference, maybe an entire group of American citizens out there."
by Twin Cities Hawk on Jun 14, 2010 11:31 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Well...
I can’t see UT slinking back to the Big 12 and agreeing to change the revenue structure that has been a huge benefit to them
This I believe.
or the rejects agreeing to keep it as status quo
This I doubt. What leverage do they have? Do they really want to throw away the familiar ties of rivalries and common opponents and a status quo that hasn’t been all that bad for some of them (ISU gets beaten like a drum, sure, but they make more in the B12 than they would in pretty much any other conceivable scenario) for an uncertain future in, what, the Mountain West? The Big East? Someplace worse?
I don’t think the rejects will be crazy about continuing to get fucked over by Texas, but I also think they’re a bit stuck. Whatever faults the Big 12 has (and they are many), it’s still better than life in the MWC (way less money, no guaranteed BCS bid, worse bowl tie-ins) or Big East (ditto, aside from having a BCS bid).
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
At the same time, if Pollard's a gambler
The MWC might not be so bad. With the current 10 teams and their own network, it’s conceivable that AQ status and better revenue is in the near future. It’s possible that the bottom teams in the BigXII’s revenue hierarchy might actually make more evenly splitting a smaller pie. Plus, Pollard could say that it was the addition of ISU and others gave the MWC their AQ status.
by PackerHawk on Jun 14, 2010 12:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
But Pollard's not a gambler
He’s just a whiner who will search high and low to find a way to blame Iowa/the Big Ten for all of ISU’s misfortune.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
This whole Texas committing to stick around in a 10 team conference...
…is simply a stabalizer for the weekend. [I think this was accurately covered up above. Someone (aTm?) will bolt leaving less than 10 teams and an easy out for Tex who doesn’t plan to stick around anyway.]
After friday everyone was buzzing and asking a bajillion questions: speculating, guessing, bullshitting. And everyone KNEW what was going on (at least they all said they had inside sources). But it’s hard to do serious business in an ever-changing climate (I learned that tidbit from, I believe, a MasterCard commercial or something… maybe UPS, whatever).
So Tex comes out and says, “No, we’re sticking so long as we have 9 teams to play.” That stabilizes things because reporters have something to print, pundits have fake insider info to hawk to the public, making it look like they have a clue (which is why insiders have at least two or three detailed versions of what is happening… imagine the range of speculation if this nugget hadn’t been squeezed out). The public stops their heads from spinning long enough that “rational” businessmen can conduct meetings and actually figure this all out. Without all of the questions.
Meeting are still going on. Conferences are still talking. They just had to get the narrative on to something else (Nebraska ‘esploded the conference!) so they could focus without the dogs sniffing around their collective crotch. I think they’re all meeting and multiple moves will be announced together (whenever the decisions are made). All of the commishes just have to work out who, where, when, etc first.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 14, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Spot on, there
I really truly doubt that this money has placated Texas all that much. If not this expansion cycle, the school will be looking for more money (and don’t forget academic prestige; the Big XII doesn’t really have that. If UT can ditch OU and OSU in favor of Baylor and Stanford, would our friends in academia hurdle mountains for that kind of association?) in another few years, perhaps even next year, although I doubt that. Commissioner Beebe, in spite of his past incompetence, may yet have found his testes somewhere on the vast plains of Tejas, and may even make a stand (late, but perhaps not too late) against their profiteering. Of course, that’s an enormous, Texas-sized (no pun helluva pun intended) if.
For now, though, you are completely right. No way UT changes their mind that fast. They got sick of every meeting of officials in the conference being scrutinized a hundred times over by every blogger this side of the Pope Alexander’s Line of Demarcation (the first geographical feature that pooped into mind. Them Portuguese got themselves cheated.)
The Gram stain is useful in classifying bacteria because....it gives me another reason to hate biology?
And what is Missouri's mind set going into all this?
It’s all starting to look like a REALLY bad soap opera.
Who's leg do I have to hump to get a drink around here?-Brian
They're sitting at home, eating the entire tub of ice cream and crying their eyes out.
They’re the girl who managed to get the quarterback to take them to prom, only when they went to get some more punch, they came back and found that their hotter, more famous friend had swooped in and was going home with the quarterback, leaving them holding the bag.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
I was thinking more like the slutty girl
Who has spent a lot of time flaunting her loose morals in hope of landing a date with the QB only to end up rejected and home alone because he doesn’t want to tarnish his image, or catch something.
by PackerHawk on Jun 14, 2010 12:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Something like this
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
Crazy money for all!
And by “all,” I mean Texas.
Texas stands to make between $20 mil and $25 mil per yr under a proposed new TV pkg presented by Dan Beebe, plus UT’s own network.
(per – who else? – Chip Brown)
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Of course
Dan hasn’t actually negotiated those numbers with any of the networks, but what the hell.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
I think there is money to be made with the leftover Big 12 teams
on the cable/network front. And I would argue their numbers are no worse than the numbers the Pac-10 is throwing around. If Texas joins the Pac-10 they splitting money 16 ways and I think the west coast college sports market is suspect…is there money there? Hell yes, but Texas is giving them money the same way Notre Dame will be giving the Big Ten money. The one difference is that Notre Dame needs a conference and at that point the Big Ten makes the most sense due to football.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
by StoopsMyAss on Jun 14, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
The other side to this for the Longhors is the academics. Look at the poo poo platter that are the present Big 12 teams. The academics in Austin simply can’t be happy. I know they won’t drive the train, but aligning with Cal, Stanford, USC and UCLA is a far different prospect than with Mizzou and KU as your compadres in the ivory tower. For the sake of this argument, I’m thinking about the law/medicine/business schools, and not the engineering/ag schools. Powers has to live with his faculty and he’s a Cal/Harvard guy. None of the schools in that conference are anything at all like UT, and say what you will about CU, at least there were similarities academically.
On the other hand
Arizona is arguably lower ranked than any current Big 12 school, academically.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
Did anyone watch Sound Off last night?
What a bunch of whiners.
by Pain in the Sash on Jun 14, 2010 11:57 AM CDT reply actions
was it as bad
as Keeler’s article in the DMR? with everything that has gone down, all he could focus on were the Hawkeye fans who find humor in ISU’s predicament.
boo hoo Sean
by KentuckyThunderPussy on Jun 14, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
yep.
that was about it. how nebraska was more concerned with money than the iowa-iowa st game was about my favorite argument. Fales kept on talking about how this would destroy the iowa-iowa st rivalry and people would be more concerned with Nebraska-Iowa. And how Nebraska can’t be rivals with the Big 10 because they don’t share borders and no one will want to travel to Lincoln. I will tell you that there are about 11 teams that are licking their chops at playing Nebraska every year.
by Pain in the Sash on Jun 14, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, Big Ten teams would like a trip to Nebraska...
in the first few years. However, I just looked at it, and Iowa City is 5 hours from Lincoln. Minneapolis is 7 hours from Lincoln. Madison, Evanston, and Champaign are 8 to 9 hours away. Compare that to 2.5 to 7 hours that Lincoln is from the Kansas schools, Ames, Mizzou, or the Oklahoma schools.
Then again, if NU is good, they don’t seem to have problems filling their stadium.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Jun 14, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Teams in the Big Ten that travel well
will not have a problem going to NU. They may have a problem getting tickets however. Teams that don’t have much of a fan base won’t go to NU. Distance really isn’t much of a concern for teams and fans. I don’t know how well they travel but i’m assuming huskers travel well too. And besides, who wants to go to games in Champbana or Bloomington anyways?
by Pain in the Sash on Jun 14, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Nebraska fans travel well, and will do so in droves to bowls. Very Iowa-like in that regard (same bleak weather in winter, warm weather very inviting, etc).
Yeah, Hlas pointed that out in an article this weekend.
It’s one of the downsides to Nebraska joining up — we’ve been able to jump some teams in the past to get to better bowls, but it’s unlikely that we’ll be able to do that to Nebraska.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
It's weird
But Hlas has seemed rather down on the Nebraska to the Big Ten development. Nothing specific, just that his tone seems underwhelmed/slightly hostile to the idea.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
As a Mas Casa fan myself...
I think Hlas may have been expecting more dominoes to fall because of the Big Ten’s first addition (ie: Pac 16, ND and some other school to Big Ten + ∞)
The Gram stain is useful in classifying bacteria because....it gives me another reason to hate biology?
People seem to be forgetting
that if the Big 12 were to disappear like a fart in the wind, that a new and larger Mountain West would likely get an automatic BCS bid… correct? with all these scenarios being tossed around like salad, some are referring to other lesser conferences as they are now, instead of how they potentially will be. or something.
by KentuckyThunderPussy on Jun 14, 2010 12:32 PM CDT reply actions
True.
But that won’t happen overnight.
And there’s no guarantee they’ll just inherit the Big 12’s bowl tie-ins. Nor will they just inherit the Big 12’s TV deals, which, bad as they are, still dwarf what the MWC has. Long-term, it may pay off, but in the short term there could be some lean years.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
If MWC gets BCS status...
…then they probably will just inherit the bowl tie-ins.
There will be empty bowl games just looking for someone to come to them, and there will be a new BCS conference that will be in need of some BCS level bowls.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Jun 14, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Short-term, maybe.
But as soon as those bowls can renegotiate their contracts, they’ll be looking to conferences with bigger and better fanbases than what the MWC can offer.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
TtT now tweeting that A&M reupping for BXII (10)
so ISU has some hope i guess.
Can teams start laying down for the Braves, so Bobby Cox can go out in normal fashion.... losing in the NLCS?
er that should be FtT
Can teams start laying down for the Braves, so Bobby Cox can go out in normal fashion.... losing in the NLCS?
If anyone wants some good reading
go to the Facebook group “Save the Cyclones”. One of my favorite snippets. “Money: The only reason Iowa beats us at football.”
by Pain in the Sash on Jun 14, 2010 12:42 PM CDT reply actions
There's a similar page I've seen.
It’s the Facebook group for the Nation of Guatemala and shares the sentiment “Money: The only reason the U.S. beats us at life.”
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Jun 14, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
and the only reason Chuck Liddell can kick my ass is because he has bigger muscles.
Facts sometimes have a strange and bizarre power that makes their inherent truth seem unbelievable. - Werner Herzog
About that...
If you can eat a punch or two, you might not be in such bad shape against Liddell these days..
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
apparently losing 5 of 6
and getting knocked out 3 times will get you more or less fired
by Pain in the Sash on Jun 14, 2010 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone looked at Bowl tie-ins?
Any opportunity for B10 to swap / inherit / thieve a good bowl game from the BXII? I would guess their contracts allow some renegotiation if the conference materially changes (cough, cough, or disappears)
I’ve always been partial to the Holiday, myself — good Fry era memories there. Maybe get rid of the Chammps and have some extra CA presence?
Anyone else given it any thought? (note: my thoughts were confined to the time it took me to type this post).
Now that it looks like the BigXII is saved
I don’t think the BigTen will scavenge a bowl tie-in. But I can’t imagine the Big XII keeping all of their bowl tie-ins indefinitely with two less teams. At the very least they might have difficulties consistently filling all of their bowl contracts.
By the same logic, though
Wouldn’t the Big X+∞ need an extra bowl tie-in or two? I’m thinking Iowa 2007, the year of bowlessness, in which Iowa didn’t go to a bowl game, despite their eligibility at a 6-6 record. I think there could be a few 6-6 teams, and perhaps a 7-5 team, that gets passed up on because all Big Ten bowls are full. No bowl committee would like to get some PoS MAC team rather than a middle-of-the-pack Big X+∞ team. Of course, last year the Big XI didn’t fill its bowl slots (read: Pizza Bowl), so there are definitely two sides to this issue.
The Gram stain is useful in classifying bacteria because....it gives me another reason to hate biology?
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