About the Todd Lickliter Resignation Rumors
We had sort of hoped to ignore the "Todd Lickliter is resigning" rumors that had started today. Up until a little while ago, the only source of all this was one post on some random message board, where even the poster himself avows no ability to verify the reliability of the rumors. That's not worth mentioning, plain and simple.
Things changed around tipoff today. At that point, KCJJ started tweeting oddly specific rumors that Lickliter was going to announce his resignation very, very soon. Here's what they reported:
Sources tell KCJJ that Todd Lickliter will step down as Iowa head basketball coach following the 2009-2010 season
Inside sources close to the situation tell KCJJ that two threatened player defections lead to Todd Lickliter...
Inside sources tell KCJJ that UI will likely officially cite "health reasons" for Lickliter's resignation
That's so wonderfully juicy that it couldn't possibly be true--especially since KCJJ has no reliability as a source of breaking Hawkeye news. Ask yourself this: does that sound like the type of thing that A) actually happens and B) if so, would find its way to some lightweight sports station first? Doesn't it sound more like the slightly unhinged fantasy of a message board Hawkeye fan being fed to unwitting sports radio jocks?
Sure enough, as soon as the game ended, Lickliter and the Iowa administration went on the offensive, disavowing the rumors completely.
Phil Haddy (Iowa sports information director) calls the KCJJ report on Lickliter "completely false."
As for the idea of resignation, Lickliter didn't exactly sound like a man on his way out. From Marc Morehouse:
"I have no idea. I just take care of me, so . . . That's not on me, that's on Gary Barta." -- Todd Lickliter in the Iowa radio postgame.
Obviously, things can change day to day, and nobody with their own endgame plans for their job want to be scooped before they're ready to announce. Even if Lickliter wanted to leave, he wouldn't do it right now, if for no other reason than to show some respect to his players; they didn't play today like they already knew Lickliter was gone.
But eh. All that is speculation and imagination. For now, all we've got to work with are two rumors with very suspect origins and two forceful denials. That isn't much of a story--well, wait, that shouldn't be much of a story. If ESPN thinks otherwise, though, we may as well address it to the best of our ability too. And until we get some better information, the best we can say is that these rumors as they stand don't pass the smell test at all. We are probably in for an interesting week, though.
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144 comments
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Comments
It makes no sense for him to resign
unless he really has serious health issues. Which it does not seem he does. Also, I will not be surprised to see as many as two players leave. Cougill and Brommer seem like good candidates for that. But Lickliter has a football contact…a $600K buyout. He has 4 1/2 years left on that sucker. That is $3 million if you include some of his other earnings he would be due. That is huge money. I don’t see a donor buying this firing. I don’t see Barta firing him…it would make Barta vulnerable. I don’t see Lickliter leaving with his repuation in tatters and leaving $3 million on the table after just having bought a new house (I think) in Iowa City, with his son in the middle of his college career.
I am not a fan of the dude, and want things to change, but this rumor is silly. The only remotely digestible way I could see this happening is if Iowa came to an agreement with him…maybe pay him $1.5 million over 5 years or something. But whatever they do will see the light of day because we are not a private university. One last thought, you don’t do this without having someone specific in mind…there is no one out there.
Again, It all looks silly to me.
I could see Lickliter firing some staff though.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
this rumor = not silly
Kirk Ferentz stepping down to coach Kirkwood’s girls softball team = silly.
Once-successful midmajor coach jumps to a power conference. Fails miserably. After historically bad year, rumor comes out that he just might not be the head coach next year.
That is not silly. That is just how the world works. I have no idea if the rumor is true, but if it were “fall on your ass laughing cause it’s so unbelievable” … we wouldn’t be here right now, talking about it.
everloyal
it looks silly to me…was the quote. Scott Doc believes there is something afoot. What, he does not know. He is much closer to this than I will ever be. But I am not paid to comment as I see things. That’s all.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
The wild card are transfers
if three guys leave…then Barta has a serious issue on his hands. He has a coach who cannot fill out a roster. I can see two guys going…I can’t see three.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
I wonder
if one of the threatened player defections was this guy.
But yes, it makes no sense for him to step down unless he truly has given up or the health issues are far, far greater than we’ve been led to believe. If that’s the case, he shouldn’t have been on the court since his surgery.
We’ll find out in the next couple of days about the players, I would wager.
It never gets to be easy
Still
If I were Barta, I would look at the positive reaction so many fans had toward the false news of Licliters following and then reflect if that attitude is going to sell seats in Carver next year.
I don’t know if Lickliter leaves or not, but it is clear that the majority of the fan base is against him and that is really going to hamstring any ability he has to rebuild the team.
I think it makes more sense for him to step down than you think. If he is getting pressure from the players to leave I think it is something he just might have to consider. That being said, i don’t think that is happenign right now and I think he is our coach for next season.
About this:
If I were Barta, I would look at the positive reaction so many fans had toward the false news of Licliters following and then reflect if that attitude is going to sell seats in Carver next year.
What random fans think isn’t Barta’s primary concern. What the big money thinks is Barta’s primary concern, and I’m certain he’s been keeping track of their sentiments the entire way.
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
There is an old rule of thumb that you do not fire a coach unless
you have your next guy lined up. Of course that rule is broken all the time. I can’t imagine who Barta would think is his next guy. The cost to the university would be huge if Lickliter was fired. If he resigns, then the question is how much was he gifted to do that. I don’t see it happening for $1 million. I’ll say that.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
Yeah
Unless Barta has the replacement all lined up, this is already a debacle. To allow these leaks, rumors and endless speculation leads me to believe that Barta is not running a tight ship.
That's just the intertubes for ya...
…I could start an internet rumor that has Obama losing the Presidency and being replaced by Miss Piggy by the end of the day.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 8:10 AM CST up reply actions
Sean Hannity already beat you to it.
Sorry. I will now end my political mentionings.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure if you're referring to idiots on the other blogs...
…but I’m in Iowa City and I can tell you the reaction has been a BIG “Whaaaat?”
It doesn’t make sense. Fans are not “against” Lick, though things are trending in that direction. Mostly it’s been “give it time.” If next year starts badly I think most people will be against him, but this season he got a pass from most in the eastern Iowa area.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 11, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
What part of Iowa City?
Everyone I have been talking too here was pratically shitting themselves when they heard the news. Everyone I have talked too has practically been singing since that happened?
I am in Iowa City and the “Whaat” you are reffering to certainly hasn’t been what I have been hearing.
Maybe it’s just the people I have talked to, but I didn’t hear anything other than “bout damn time” when the rumor hit. And before you say these people aren’t “Fans” I will just say most of them are season ticket holders. Maybe we are a minority but I would say it is more than a trend.
Plenty of fans most definitely are against him
I hear people bitching about his system and what he’s done to the program at every single game.
FWIW
Up until a little while ago, the only source of all this was one post on some random message board, where even the poster himself avows no ability to verify the reliability of the rumors.
While the latter part of the sentence is true, the first is not.
Yeah
Like zaph said – click through the link in the OP and read through the first few pages. There’s a lot of info in there from other posters that I didn’t hear originally.
There’s a pretty long thread on Jon Miller’s site too.
Lickliter's craptastic record @ Iowa:
2008 (13-19); 2009 (15-17); 2010 (10-22).
I think we’re stuck w/ Lick for at least 1 more year.
Firing Barta & Lick could be a package deal.
this place smells like feet. i’ll bring a can of lysol next week.
by pfac51 on Mar 11, 2010 4:57 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Obviously firing everyone is the best solution here.
Firing is winning, after all.
by The Mexican't on Mar 11, 2010 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
I thought punting was winning
And this is why I’ll never be a coach
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Mar 11, 2010 10:09 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, firing and Barta and Lick = INSTAwins.
Again, a big look before you jump. Are we wanting to go into another rebuilding project? While going through a rebuilding project?
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
From the Gazoo
"You don't become a Hawkeye fan, You're born with Black and Gold in your veins." - Me
I like Fullers comment
They’re not blind to the situation, it’s got to rough on all of them, but if the players are committed to staying, I feel better
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Mar 11, 2010 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
I say see ya cully
He’s undersized and will never be anything more then average. I don’t see one player on this roster that is All Big11. Be honest does anyone here believe we have capable players? How many would start or get good minutes from one of the top tier big ten teams? I love the Hawks but this is team and half the players on it are seriously D2 quality. Its time for a change and if Cully wants to leave see ya. Can the program at this point really get any worse?
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 11, 2010 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
I have eyes
And thats what i see. Gatens and Fuller would be the only two. I’m a realist. What makes you correct? I’m hoping that i’m wrong but we have zero size and no athletes. Just the facts which i’m sad to say is the team that i love.
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 11, 2010 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
Calling yourself a "realist"
does not make your assessment any more accurate. Neither does saying “Just the facts”.
Iowa is on the brink of a Big 10 title, but I’m a realist. That’s just the facts. See? I have eyes too, and that’s what I see.
In all honesty though, no one is going to confuse our roster for the Dream Team. And I am concerned about the program, just like all other fans. But saying the team and half the players are D2 quality is a stretch, keep in mind this team didn’t even finish last in the conference.
I do have more rhymes than Jamaica got mangos.
by LuebkeSwims! on Mar 11, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions
No
You should have responded with “your mom”.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 11, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
How about
Your mom goes to college
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 12, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
That's foolish
You think having the few players that ARE Big11 caliber (whether they’d be starters or not is debatable) leave is a good thing? Should we just put out more Lil Johns?
I never said that
I said how many would play big minutes for a top tier Big Ten school? Those two are by far and away the best we have going. Sorry if i stated it that way, not what i meant by any means.
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 11, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
You're right...
…most top tier Big Ten schools don’t start freshmen, because they don’t have to.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
Gotta agree on the Cully hate.
A couple of Kingsbury range threes (and great numbers today, admittedly) don’t make up for his out of control play and plethora of turn-overs.
by KenOKeefeIfuckinghateyou on Mar 11, 2010 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
re: cully
yes, he’s a true f’n freshman….and there are true fuckin’ freshman playing all over the country. His problem is not that he’s a freshman, it’s that he’s not…..good.
What the hell is your standard for true freshman?
John Wall? Because that’s not realistic for Iowa.
Cully has been fine for a true freshman (a true freshman a year removed from a fucking broken back, no less) suddenly thrust into the role of starting point guard on a bad team. There’s every reason to expect that he’s going to get better.
I expect Iowa's freshman to play at a John Wall/OJ Mayo type level...I also smoke crack.
What a stupid statement/post Ken. The kid is 18 years old.
A Voice From Kinnick - A Hawkeye Blog
Wow.
Nobody calls it keef anymore.
Or was that a Keno Davis reference?
(Just kidding.)
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
Expecting John Wall? No..
…but expecting better than 35% from the floor, 62% from the line and an assist/TO barely above 1.
Just by comparison
Dean Oliver shot 37% and had a 1.8 A/T ratio as a freshman
Jeff Horner shot 33% percent with a 1.8 A/T ratio as a freshman
Throwing out free throw % his stats are comparable down the line to both Oliver and Horner. And both had way better supporting casts. Norse said it best a couple post up. He’s not going to be NBA-type player. But everything I have seen out of him say’s he will end up being a solid D-1 point guard.
I have never been so disappointed in Iowa BBall but one of the few bright spots that I seen this year, when I was able to watch, was Cully. I hope that he is back no matter what the circumstances
I admit...
that we should not expect big things from Payne in his true frosh season. He is at least serviceable right now, and Iowa doesn’t have a ton of point guard prospects fighting to become Hawkeyes right now.
On the other hand, if you are an undersized, white point guard who is not a huge scoring threat, then you had better shoot free throws better. He has a lower % than Jarryd Cole this year. I mean, Payne even missed more FTs than Cole. Even Brommer is shooting 11% better (in percentage) than Payne.
I don’t necessarily want Lick gone yet. But, if we have to lose Payne to get a coach who can win, then I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, the free throw shooting is unfortunate.
It’s also hardly a prime determinant of future success or a reason to cut ties with the kid. If it’s below 75% next season, it’s truly reason for concern.
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
What exactly are you expecting of him?
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Mar 11, 2010 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
Silly.
Not all freshman are awesome. Calipari’s players are the exception, not the rule. There’s this thing called “player development” and it’s in effect for most schools in college basketball.
"Based on my estimates, it appears that Stanzi shall transcend the ages." - Cairo
by ReadingRambler on Mar 11, 2010 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, and what Calipari level player would want to go to a school wandering in the wilderness?
First you get some wins, then you get the recruits, then you build the program.
/Scarface’d
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
Definitely my favorite fan critique
“He’s not any good.” Really? He was given a scholarship just to fill a hole? To expect every single D1 athlete to play at the level of a professional is outrageous. These are 18-22 year old kids and an awful lot is expected out of them.
by The Mexican't on Mar 11, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
true story
we don’t get ‘one and done’ players. in a perfect world freshmen don’t NEED to play.
right direction, we are headed
//yoda’d
Gotta get up to get down
Exactly
I’d much rather see Payne struggle in a 10-22 season, but gain valuable playing experience and know the things he has to work on before next season.
I’ll take that over a guy who just wants to come in for 1 year, think he is the best thing to ever happen to the program, and bail for the NBA
by HeroPatriotStanzi on Mar 12, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Have you played basketball with 18 year olds?
And have you played with 22 year olds?
Big difference, and the change comes from them playing when they are 19-21 years old. That’s how it works.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
Glen Worley
would like a word with you.
Somebody above posted DeanO’s and Horner’s frosh numbers. If you look at subsequent years, not a huge move in the numbers.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/iowa/jeff-horner
You can call Cully a bright spot on a really bad team, but I wouldn’t expect big changes from what you’ve seen this year. Ideally, he’d be your back up PG – playing the role of J Lick
I agree
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 12, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
i definitely got way better as i played more. look how i increased my fouls. i was guaranteed 3 a night with the potential for 7.
by Glen Worley on Mar 12, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would agree with that...
…in fact I was saying to my folks earlier in the year that I’d much rather have a future NBAer out there with Cully as the backup. I agree, but this isn’t that team. Maybe next year he’ll play 6th man, but this year he was the best we had, and I’d say he did well considering he was in Illinois’ High School State Tournament this time last year (Or was his back broken at that point in time?).
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Yea, we produce future NBAers left and right
It would be nice. But, fact of the matter is we don’t get those types of players. Your guys expectations are pretty fuckin’ lofty.
We don't have to have guys...
who are going to have long successful careers in the NBA. We just need guys that can have long successful careers in the Big Ten. Dean Oliver, Jeff Horner, Andre Woolridge are pretty good examples.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
better than Cully Payne is not lofty.
by KenOKeefeIfuckinghateyou on Mar 12, 2010 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
I was afraid
that this was too good to be true…I was all about giving the guy a chance but its time for a change….say what you will about Alford, (I didn’t like him either, not many of the other coaches did either) but at least we won, could pack the house, and make the tournament, not to mention look at where he has New Mexico this year, I am just saying…
The fact is that Lick’s style of basketball will NOT put butts in the seats unless we are winning consistently nobody wants to come see an un-athletic team get ran off of the court while scoring 40 points doing it.
What is with the revisionist history on name redacted?
I was all about giving the guy a chance but its time for a change….say what you will about Alford, (I didn’t like him either, not many of the other coaches did either) but at least we won, could pack the house, and make the tournament, not to mention look at where he has New Mexico this year, I am just saying…
He won one stinking NCAA game in 8 years, attendance was already sliding when he left, and where he has UNM is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.
Back on topic, something more is going on here. It has to be. Iowa doesn’t fire a coach after three years. The true future of this team is two freshmen (Payne, May), two sophomores (Fuller, Gatens), and the incoming class. Bad as things have been, Lickliter has earned the right to at least develop that core for one more year and see if progress is being made. My (admittedly uninformed) speculation is that (1) there truly is a health issue related to what happened earlier requiring a leave of absence of several months or more, and Lickliter hasn’t built the capital to take such a leave and is begrudgingly resigning, or (2) One or more of the core players mentioned above said “he goes or I go” and Barta, knowing the program can’t take the PR hit of more high-profile defections, sat him down and a buyout was quietly negotiated, maybe with “health reasons” being used as pretext.
It won’t be an outright firing. I guarantee it. It will be a “resignation”, and we may never know how voluntary it was, or, it will be Todd Lickliter leading the Hawkeyes in 2010-2011. I actually slightly favor the latter, but all the tea leaves are pointing towards the former.
by DonnyDonovan on Mar 11, 2010 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
And what revisionist history are you referring to?
There is no revising history here man, you cannot even begin to compare the state of the Iowa program to under that certain coach. You can’t compare attendance, you can’t compare performance….any of it.
Also if you arent showing progress by the end of the third year what the hell are you doing? Secondly, defection is a serious issue when it comes to players, it means the players know the program isn’t going where it needs to go and there is little respect for the coach, alot of coaches deal with this but not to the extent Lick has. Something is not right with the program….he just hasn’t been able to hack it on the big stage thus far and that is the truth. I am not trying to just bash on him but come on…
Sadly, you're not joking
and you are trying to bash Lickliter. It’s justified, I understand. But don’t think that (name redacted) was the good ol’ days.
We haven’t been packing the house since 2002.
He didn’t break .500 in the conference schedule until 2005.
His winning percentage was much better, and he got us to the postseason, absolutely, but he also had arguably better players in his first few years. The defections have been brutal, especially considering that Lickliter’s system relies on knowledge and experience.
Let me put it another way. Our facilities are substandard right now. We are a losing program with a questionable fan base. We are not going to get a hot coaching hire without throwing massive cash at him. We are not going to get 5* recruits unless a coach brings them with him.
We are, simply stated, in a bad place right now. Firing Lickliter, if it involves losing the current players or incoming freshman, is simply a way to stay in this bad place for another 3 years.
We need to see if there is improvement next year.
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Mar 11, 2010 10:42 PM CST up reply actions
good points...
Agreed we didn’t pack the house after 02 every game but we could pack it for the big games. Look I am not defending name reacted here by any means…but our program was more well respected then and generally speaking there was an excitement to big games not the expecting to be blown out part. Lickliters system sucks for big ten play if we shoot the lights out on a given night sure we can be competitive but at some point some focus to going inside and better rebounding have to be emphasized. I guess I just don’t see remarkable improvement on the horizon.
by BsblHawk on Mar 12, 2010 9:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah...
…but just try to wrap your head around the fact that with all of the things going wrong- – supposedly unathletic guys, “bad” system, “bad” coach, NO POST PLAYER, etc., etc., etc.- – we took OSU down to the wire, we took MSU down to the wire, we were hanging with Texas for a while, we played Purdue close, etc., etc., etc.
How do you explain that?
This system takes time, and yes it’s ugly during the building. I think the biggest problem is a lack of a big man. As the Gazoo noted, everything was fine until Cy Tate (post player) went down. This year our big man went down before the season.
I’m being optimistic here, but I think next year we really make the jump. It seemed like Lick was forcing the issue this year because there were times that he made the youngsters use the system when we really should have been pushing tempo. But that may pay dividends in later years. Why not make the guys learn the system during a lost year like this? We weren’t competing for a title or even an NCAA berth, but during the tournament game yesterday (when we WERE playing for the NCAAs) Cully was allowed to work more freely and you saw what happened. I guess I just see a half full glass right now.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Wait, what?
This year our big man went down before the season.
Who, Archie? You cannot possibly believe that.
Our “bigs” were always going to primarily be Cole, Fuller, and Brommer . Archie was always described as something of a project big man. Barring injuries, it seems very unlikely that he was going to play more than 10-15 minutes a game. Would he have been valuable to have? Sure. But comparing him to Cyrus Tate is absurd.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
I was unaware that Archie was a project...
…but I never intended to compare him to Tate.
My only point was that this type of ball requires collapsing the defenseeither by giving the ball to someone on the post, or by driving. The driving wasn’t there this year (or was inconsistent to say the least) and our only bigs either couldn’t catch a pass (Cole) or fouled out in record time. Fuller was good at times, but we couldn’t rely on him as a “post presence.”
My real point is that the 30 seconds of panic 5 seconds of fear gameplan will go away with personnel that can make the system work, and I look forward to seeing what that looks like if/when it happens.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Okay...
My only point was that this type of ball requires collapsing the defenseeither by giving the ball to someone on the post, or by driving. The driving wasn’t there this year (or was inconsistent to say the least) and our only bigs either couldn’t catch a pass (Cole) or fouled out in record time. Fuller was good at times, but we couldn’t rely on him as a "post presence."
That’s fair enough, but no way was Archie going to be that guy and I wasn’t sure who else you could be referring to when you said “this year our big man went down before the season.”
My real point is that the 30 seconds of panic 5 seconds of fear gameplan will go away with personnel that can make the system work, and I look forward to seeing what that looks like if/when it happens.
I’d like to see that too, but given the near-constant transfer rumors, I don’t know if we’ll ever see that (especially now with the Lickliter Era circling the drain).
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
Just watched the Gazette video with Hlas and Morehouse
Sounds like they sense that it’s going to happen. “Something’s afoot.” I think Dochterman wrote it, and Hlas said it. Morehouse was more adamant about it needing to happen. Absolutely nothing concrete, they admit, but that was clearly the tone of the conversation. Who knows, but sometimes it seems these things can generate their own momentum.
I saw it too
and it was surprisingly compelling. Hlas is a voice of reason and he believes the money is there to wash this away. He also believes Barta is calling the family of the recruits and current player families. It strikes me that they have crunched the numbers maybe and think they can buy a new life here.
I find that amazing and have to admit, if those who really call these shots are not convinced that Lickliter WILL turn the program into an upper tier Big Ten program that can compete for the title, then you really have a responsibility to fire him. I would never in a thousand years believe Barta would do this without pressure from above and from the deep pockets that fund Iowa athletics.
If this does end for Lickliter in the next week, I’ll be blown away and impressed (because I don’t think Lickliter is a long term answer and that is really evident in everything I have written in the past month) but I don’t think it will be pretty. I don’t think he will go softly into that good night. He’ll take all his money and make it clear he was dealt a soft hand and deserved more time and support.
I read Doc’s transcript of Lickliter’s answers in the post game about his fate and he did not sound like he was going to Barta’s house for dinner.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
It feels a little weird
to think that Iowa is a program that has these kinds of issues. I assume this happens a lot more than I imagine, but seeing something like this, if it does happen the way you describe it, seems something more likely to happen in the Big 12 or SEC. It’s amazing the power boosters can wield.
by The Nihilist on Mar 11, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Lickliter should be pissed.
You’ve got a small town program where the AD could walk out, put his arm around his head coach, look at the cameras, and say, “In regard to the rumors, shut up.” And I think everyone who has ever had a political, weaselly boss would say, “I can respect that.” It wouldn’t matter whether or not they thought TL was going to succeed (I don’t see how he can, but seriously, how the hell would I know). At least we’d see the AD taking responsibility for his hiring decision and supporting his coach. At least we (and the players) would see some loyalty and defiance.
What I see is an AD who is torturing his coach with ambiguity because he doesn’t want to buy out a 7 year deal. Well, tough. He offered seven years and a deal is a deal. He can fire TL but he’ll have to buy him out. TL has absolutely no reason whatsoever to resign and take a haircut on the last four years. Snyder did this to Zorn last fall, but Zorn wouldn’t play along. These coaches don’t get too many big money deals. This is TL’s.
At some level, TL probably feels that he has given SUI everything he’s got, and that includes a scary health event and the meanies at WHO picking on Junior. If they want to dump him, they should, but they owe him his money. The guy needs a vacation anyway, so if he’s going to get an enforced vacation, Barta should pay for it.
As I note below, I don’t think the money is a problem in any way. First of all, once you sign a guy to a deal like that, in your head to have to write off the entire sum; otherwise you get stuck making decisions based on sunk cost, which is economically stupid. (Money contractually committed or spent is gone, hence not marginal to any future decision.) Second, thanks to Ferentz, they have the cash and won’t notice it this year. Third, mbb is generating deficits vs. the expected norm (12-14000 in a rebuilding year) thanks to the attendance collapse, so trying to save, say, $1mm by running the risk of 4500-person attendance figures next year is idiotic.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
Agreed.
However, I find this comment (as would the players, I’m sure) to be rather ironic: “What I see is an AD who is torturing his coach with ambiguity…”
But yeah, blablahblah, TL gets another year. Plus, I mean, come on - his name is Todd. We can’t hate on him too much…
"Do a flip!" - Bender B. Rodriguez
by Bucketochicken on Mar 12, 2010 7:50 AM CST up reply actions
Odd quote
“I have no idea. I just take care of me, so . . . That’s not on me, that’s on Gary Barta.” — Todd Lickliter in the Iowa radio postgame.
Is that even really a denial? That sounds like Lick had a meeting with Barta and was told that there was a lot of pressure to can him but Barta promised to push back. And I can see a scenario where some boosters agree to pay the buyout very quietly after it all blows over and nobody is looking.
If they’re going to can him, now is the time to do it. Get into the new coach hunt before everybody else.
In 100 years, we'll all be dead.
It really does remind me of the end of the "name redacted" situation....
And I’m paraphrasing here—
Barta: “Improve this team next year or you’re gone”
Name Redacted: “Alrighty, well, see ya later. There’s a job opening in New Mexico.”
by Kinnick Stadium is my Graceland on Mar 11, 2010 8:05 PM CST reply actions
50 year-old men do not walk away from $2.4mm, just because they're good guys or something. Doesn't, won't, will never, happen.
So if they want to fire him, they’re going to have to pay up. I don’t think paying up is a big deal. Figure: $2.5mm. What did they make last year, and what do they plan to make this year, with Iowa football? How much more will they lose on men’s basketball next year?
Also, just watching this team, which is dysfunctional, we have no idea if they can play or not. I have never seen such a dispirited, plodding group; who has? I do suspect that UNI would love to have most of the guys on this team (maybe not a certain 5’8" roly-poly walkon guard). UNI can play basketball well enough for me.
Anyway, I think the decision is automatic if you have two more lettermen (not named JL) transferring this year. It’s politics, but it’s the good kind of politics: the politics of arithmetic. (It was not the politics of arithmetic with Alford.) Arithmetic: can we afford to average 4500 attendance? Nope.
There’s a lot of risk here, though. What if you fire the coach, two guys leave, and 1-2 of your recruits say, “Anywhere but Iowa.” That’s an IU, Tom Crean situation.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
Barta, I believe, is awkwardly researching this...
There’s a lot of risk here, though. What if you fire the coach, two guys leave, and 1-2 of your recruits say, "Anywhere but Iowa." That’s an IU, Tom Crean situation.
It is now being reported that he had a players meeting (w/o Lickliter and I am assuming his son in the room) to guage their committment. That probably didn’t sit well with TL. Barta has a real dilemma on his hands and his future is about not fucking it up. I think Lickliter should go, but I don’t think they will do it. They do not want a Crean situation and I doubt we would get a Tom Crean to clean it up. Let TL go one more year and you a) save money; b) get a full roster finally; c) maybe turn the corner; d) get your ducks in a row at midseason for a new coach if it does not work out.
Bellanca is right though, 3,250 for an Indiana game next year on a perfectly beautiful day is going to send people in the AD office into a frenzy. I think TL has lost trust of the fans—-the player defections followed by losing basketball. But your next move better be fucking rock solid, if you make one.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
But doesn't your reasoning
assume a significant jump in attendance with the new coach? A bump big enough to cover not only the increased salary of a new coach, but also Lick’s buyout. While Barta (I hope) already considered Lick’s contract money spent, he probably wasn’t budgetting on paying a coach and the buyout. There is simply no way I can see attendance increasing (or not continuing fall) next year even if there is a new hire. Even assuming everyone stays the program is at least two years away from sniffing an NCCA bid.
So the money crunch can only be avoided by paying the new coach less than you paying Lick. Obviously, this drastically reducing the pool of available candidates. If I am a coach with any options (and have no connection to Iowa), the only thing drawing me to Iowa is dollar signs. If Iowa doesn’t offer the money, they are going to have catch lightning in a bottle on coach nobody is looking at. Nothing good comes from this. In most scenarios, this coach will fail and the program’s downslide will continue. If my some chance he is successful, he will likely bolt to a bigger school.
Unless a booster is paying the buyout or pulling the money unless there is a change, financially, I think there is a strong argument to be made that it makes sense to wait a year or two and see what happens.
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Ah...
…sanity. How I’ve missed you.
by Eyeheartfreedumb on Mar 12, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
Iowa Athletics
turns a profit. A very big profit. They have the money.
In 100 years, we'll all be dead.
So...
I don’t think Lick gets fired or forced to resign within the next 11 months. Yet, who on earth do you get to fill the job right now?
Ben Jacobson of UNI? Gary Close of Wisconsin? Rob Jeter of UW-Milwaukee?
I have yet to hear anyone throw out some compelling names for the job. I know few of us could predict Lickliter getting the job three years ago, but I am really having trouble thinking of anyone somewhat big (and hopefully, entering their coaching prime) who would take this job right now.
So, Barta gives Lick one more year, and if he doesn’t get to .500 and get to the NIT, we go in search of some respectable young prospective coach. Or, just hire Wayne Morgan. LOL
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
Names
There aren’t any names that would want this. Jacobsen rules the roost there and if he makes the tourney every 4 years he’ll never go.
Dana Altman has proven he likes Creighton or is afraid of southerners.
What’s his ass at Wichita State would be interesting.
Keno Davis? That’d be my preference
I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid.
- Terry Bradshaw
by thegunslinger12 on Mar 12, 2010 10:21 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Likely Candidate
UTEP’s Tony Barbee. The guy can recruit, plays up tempo style and was at Wyoming together with Barta. Barbee was an assistant at Memphis under Coach Cal for 6 years. He is young at 38 and African American.
Basically, he is the anti Lickliter. I am sold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Barbee
"You taught me a lesson, I was going to give someone the benefit of doubt, and I almost did, then something said, no don't, don't, its not for you, its not my thing" Larry David,
More on Tony Barbee
http://www.gotigersgo.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/barbee_tony00.html
http://utepathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/barbee_tony00.html
If Barta already has this guy locked up, Bravo.
"You taught me a lesson, I was going to give someone the benefit of doubt, and I almost did, then something said, no don't, don't, its not for you, its not my thing" Larry David,
Hmmm
Up tempo, from the midwest, can recruit. I’m sold also, Bellanca and/or SMA please provide your feelings?
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 12, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
My kneejerk reaction to this
is that Barta’s ass is on the line. I think he knows it, his job is in the balance. I think he has been furiously trying to assess what would happen if he kept Lickliter and what would happen if he dumped him. He is also probably trying to see what, if anything, is out there as a replacement. I don’t think he is looking at this like he did the Lickliter search. I think this is and would be a very different process.
First, I think he needs to make a decision about Lickliter. Maybe he has already done that. Then, if that decision is to fire him regardless of who is out there or might come to Iowa, that probably means a search that would look like a “process” to curry trust with fans/admin and show that he did his due diligence in looking for the best possible replacement he could find.
But, If he is only willing to cut Lickliter loose if he knows he can get a very “special” hire…then I don’t think Tony Barbee is that hire. Barbee might make it through a more traditional search, maybe. A backroom hire would be someone who would not want to participate in an “open” search, someone big-ish, someone like Bruce Pearl (who might be in a bit of trouble in Tenn). I am not suggesting Pearl would come here, just that he is the type of name that might not be possible to get wwith a more traditional process.
I think in the next few days we will know where Barta’s head is at. If he candidly states that Lickliter needs to get his shit together, that is good news for Lickliter. If he says zippo, then I think Lick’s days are numbered. I don’t expect Barta to say we “are on track” or “we are just around the corner” and other fluffy, unconvincing blather. That is the reason Iowa fans are not showing up now. They don’t buy the direction of the program.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
by StoopsMyAss on Mar 12, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
See, I disagree.
Barta held firm on Ferentz instead of making a kneejerk reaction, and he’s reaping the benefits now. He got Alford out of town without paying his buyout, and he replaced him with the COTY. That hasn’t worked, since the player base basically fell apart, but is that seriously enough to endanger Barta’s job? Especially since CHA is decidedly substandard and Barta’s moving ahead on renovations?
If Iowa’s the sort of place that even cans ADs for a stretch of three years in basketball like this, I really can’t imagine why a good basketball coach would want to coach here. I mean that. This job would be like being the only guy on the football field without pads.
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
by Adam Jacobi on Mar 12, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I see your point...but it's not just me saying that Barta has not proven himself to be a difference maker
As for Ferentz, that would have required huge balls and I don’t think most football writers would have understood that. I certainly would not have. In the balance in the sense that he cannot afford to be the guy that killed Iowa basketball. As of now until Iowa begins showing progress, that who he is.
Do you, or anyone, know how important he was to Iowa getting a BCS game? I would like to know that. That would be a very important feather in his cap if he made the difference there.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
by StoopsMyAss on Mar 12, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Well, but what AD can you say that about?
Name one AD who inherited a coach and was instrumental in getting that coach’s team to a BCS game. Does that mean that the AD’s track record is to be judged entirely independently of that football team? That’s sort of the gist I’m getting from your statements.
As for whether Barta will “kill Iowa basketball,” you’re far too smart to need to resort to such rhetorical histrionics. Further, turning the program from a hostile basketball territory to an out-and-out three year chopping block doesn’t seem like quite the positive step you’re assuming it’ll be.
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
No, I'm saying
if Barta has proven to be additive in football that is a huge feather. Another is getting Brands. But if Barta is not particularly additive in football that needs to be factored in as well.
I think we can agree that Iowa basketball is one of the greatest resources the university owns. It is. And now, right now, it is potentially to a point where next year there are 7,000 – 8,000 tickets sold per game (maybe) and that’s after reducing ticket costs while also dedicating funds/resources to the sport?
I would think that it is far from histrionic to point out that the program just achieved record futility records. We have a track record of transfers that until it stops is at the very least a perception issue. We have a track record of losses and the end of this season saw massive blowouts with guys playing hard all the way through—no quit. Going forward we are being asked by the coach to believe that he has THE four guys who along with four 3-star recruits are going to improve and be much better next year and the year after. Well, a lot people — smart people — don’t buy it, are not buying it and will not buy it.
Which leads to the second problem, in addition to not winning the guy employs a style of basketball that many people do not like to watch. That isn’t changing. I have not heard Lickliter say he has seen the light and wants to change his style. If Barta sits back and botches this — and Belanca painted the perfect scenario where Barta dumps Lickliter in such a way where the players he recruited don’t come and some current players leave and we curl back to even worse personnel issues — that is killing a lucrative, vibrant cultural artifact of the University. Maybe not forever, but for a while. Unless suddenly Iowa is able to recruit 5 star players who are able to change an entire program in their freshman year.
I completely agree that Iowa is not a place for head chopping but some people are acting as if we are coming off some sort of spree of head chopping. But to fire a coach who has achieved as little as Lickliter has achieved is not exactly edgy, couragous stuff. At schools far less oreinted toward athletics this could occur.
Again, Alford was not fired. Bowlsby was not fired. Only Zalesky was fired. And I do not think any potential coach would look at Iowa as a risky place to work if this were to end for some reason with Lickliter being let go. I mean, come on.
So, okay, uncle. Barta is not on the chopping block, okay. That can be classified as an overstatement on my part. His job performance is on the line though. He is in territory that often turns up the heat on an AD. And what he does here could inevitably lead to him further securing his position or weakening it. How he operates over the next few weeks and the next year will tell the tale. I believe there is great scrutiny on this basketball thing.
Adam, I am having a hard time seeing where you are on this? If you are still deciding that’s cool. But I can’t read it. And you certainly don’t need to be anywhere per se. That’s cool too. But I am just calling it how I see it.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
I think...
that Bowlsby brought in Brands.
Wikipedia says Barta became AD in August of 2006, and it says Brands came back to Iowa in spring of 2006.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
So there you go...
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
"I would think that it is far from histrionic to point out that the program just achieved record futility records."
That is true. Conjuring up the spectre of “killing Iowa basketball,” however, is ludicrous—especially when it’s totally plausible that Iowa’s back in the tournament within 3 years (even with Lickliter at the helm!).
Further, the fact that Iowa is NOT coming off a spate of head-chopping is indeed important, if only because it represents the rash, instinctive nature of firing Lickliter right now.
That’s not to say Lickliter is definitely the right man for the job; if he were indeed to resign, I wouldn’t be terribly upset. If he doesn’t want to keep coaching here after the last three years, who would blame him? It seems less desirable to have Barta drop the hammer, however—this is the most promising group of players since Lickliter showed up, and if they stick around, they really ought to be significantly successful in the conference.
Of course, if one of the core group defects again, Lickliter’s pretty much got to go. But by that very same token, if they don’t, that should reflect more positively on Lickliter’s program, right?
If you’re wondering where I stand, it’s this: barring additional significant transfers, Lickliter should not be fired for at least another year. It would create even more of a need for rebuilding than what already exists, and Iowa probably doesn’t have the luxury of just picking a brand new coach and assuming he’s better than Lickliter. Now, if Lick wanted to resign, he had his out, but he didn’t bite. Shame, kinda. But if he wants to give it another year and his team’s still behind him, I say he gets that one more year.
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
I think he does get another year
and then I listen to Hlog and Doc and think, the problems are more systemic and he’s gone. I don’t know. If he stayed it wouldn’t be a surprising outcome and might even be the best outcome.
I have a hard time digesting that buyout. That seems like a big nut. That could save him. And I guess that was the point.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
The Buyout is a HUGE nut
Unless it is completely funded by a booster, it simply isn’t worth it at this point. As I said earlier, unless you are able to pay as much or more than Lickliter is getting now, Iowa isn’t going to have any chance at a sought-after candidate. And I just don’t see Iowa spending that kind of money, especially given that nothing outside of winning a product (which is two years away regardless) is going to put asses in the chairs. Firing him now could very easily lead the BB on the path of Indiana football before Hep in which they were constantly paying so much in buyouts, their coaching options were limited.
Wait two years, finish the facility upgrade, have a smaller buyout and see where thing stand.
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
This makes sense and i’m more in line with your thoughts. I’ll stand pat another year or two and then invest in the future of the program. Unless multiple players defect(cougs and brommer would be a blessing if they left) We will see what plays out in the coming day/weeks.
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 12, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think
Barta’s ass is on the line because of a basketball coach, maybe if he was the AD of a ‘basketball school’ that’d be the case, but I don’t think it is here.
To me, this all seems drummed up by some booster, or small group of fans, or a parent who writes editorials for a northwest Iowa paper, but it just doesn’t pass mustard for me. The University of Iowa doesn’t seem like the place where coaches and people get fired all the time, people leave, but don’t get fired.
Based on what Lick started with, I think he deserves at least one more year. His cabinet was completely bare when he got here (what legitimate BXI players did he inherit? Smith, who immediately transferred, and Freeman. I don’t think anyone else. Alford on the other hand inherited BXI players/contributors like Dean-o, Duez, HotRod Thompson, Kyle Galloway and Price.) and changing a system and getting people to buy in to it takes time. If we’re having this same conversation in one year, then yes, I think he’s out, one way or another.
by Buddy Light on Mar 12, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Barta's ass
is on the line in the sense that he’s not going to get to hire 3 bball coaches. If he cans Lick, he’s failed once. So he knows he better get the next one right or he’s toast.
You're right that it could be on the line because of a basketball coach
at some point, but that’s not the situation right now. He’s on bball hire #1. And if he only gets two choices, why force yourself into that decision now unless he has a COTY, #1, Top, Shoe-In, GO BEST TRY CHAMPION!!! already lined up? Frankly, I don’t think he does. So, why go all-in now?
Why?
Um, maybe 10-22. Or worst 3 yrs in IA bball history? Or the sounds of squeaking sneakers bouncing off 10,000 empty seats?
Those could be reasons. That’s what I hope he’s asking himself, “do I go all in now”?
In fairness...
I even remember the sounds of squeaking sneakers loud and clear when I was at games with 14000+ in the stands. Carver is just that type of place.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Did you really call Rod Thompson...
a contributor? I loved the guy, and wanted him to do something. However, I would be shocked if he ever averaged 5 minutes per game and 3 points per game, even late in his career. I don’t think I can call him a “contributor” based on those numbers.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Hello cart, meet horse
If Barta already has this guy locked up, Bravo.
If Barta and the University has shown anything in the last 10-15 years it is that (assuming Lick is gone) there will be search committee and no body is “locked up” and probably has not even been approached. The only exception to that rule was Brands and unless there is ex-alumni, tearing up the coaching ranks with an expressed desire to return to IC that I am missing, I am pretty sure this is going to be a process that doesn’t sort it self out for several weeks.
On a second note, what exactly has this guy done, other than apparenty work under Coach Cal and play “up tempo” basketball. He has yet to even make the tourney. By that logic, Brewester should be a great coach, I mean he worked under Mack Brown and (originally) ran an “up-tempo” offense.
On a final point, if Lick was the anti-Alford and this guy is the anti-Lick, isn’t he just Alford.
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Point taken
I like up tempo, i like someone who can recruit and i like the fact he learned under Coach Cal. I think a younger coach who is from the mid-west and has recruited nationally is a risk worth taking at this point given the state of the program. Bring in a fun style of BB and keep pulling recruits like the incoming class and it won’t be long before we matter again. We brought in someone with all the accolades and where has that gotten us? The upgrades/facilities being put in place should help with the recruiting also.
i don't wife em...i one night em
by smokinthereiff on Mar 12, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
But recruitting is only half the battle
And for Iowa, I think it needs to be the smaller half of the equation.
Iowa never has (and likely never will) be able to attract 4-5* star kids. Even if they upgrade facilities, Iowa simply isn’t a destination that top college prospects want to go. So any coach is going to have to be able to make “average” talent “good.” If Lick is gone, I would prefer someone with a proven ability to coach and win.
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
someone with a proven ability to coach and win..
Wouldn’t you say Lick fell into that category befotre he came here?
Ding ding ding
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
by Adam Jacobi on Mar 12, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I agree completely
However, I would always say the same thing could be said about Alford before he was hired and Dr. Tom before that.
Further, when Lick was hired, I would be hard pressed that anyone here didn’t think it was a good move at the time. Unfortunately, to date, it hasn’t worked out. However, that doesn’t mean that the model doesn’t work and isn’t appropriate.
I acknowledge that recruiting is fundamentally important and without it a coach is doomed. That being said, since Iowa is unlikely to get 4*/5* stars in the near term, they need someone who can coach.
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
Ok, we agree we need
someone who can coach. We’ve had guys come in who were sucessful before they got here, and successful after they left. But couldn’t get it done here.
So is “here” the problem?
I think it depends on what you mean by "successful"
For Iowa BB, I define success as consitently in upper-half of the B11, making the tournament 3 out of 4 years and then making it out the first weekend 1 of those 3 years.
I think that has been (and can continue to be) a very realistic, fair and obtainable goal. I am sure that some will say that is selling the program short and anything less than a final four isn’t good enough. I happen to not be one of those people.
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
For Iowa,
the Final Four is a “if everything comes together” situation. We should probably not count on it happening more than once every 15 or 20 years at best. Three and Out, you are right when you say that the people who expect us to be in the final four once every 5 years are giant morons.
Of course, I agree that it would be a good goal for Iowa to be competitive in conference. I don’t get too hung up on the “never won a reg-season title since 1979” thing. But we should be in the top 4 to 7 of the B11 every year, and it would be nice to be a threat for the top about once every 3 to 5 years.
That is why the Lick situation is so dicey. If he is every going to get Iowa back in the top half, and maybe the top 3 of the Big Ten, it is probably going to be in the next 2 or 3 years. If only I could invent a Hot Tub time machine and go forward about 3 years.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
I would rather see what Lick can do in the next two years...
than have to hire some Calipari-spawned weasel in training.
I would rather watch a starting squad of Cougill, Bawinkel, Lil John, Brommer, and the fictional Nick Neari, represent Iowa than see our program start recruiting the likes of Derrick Rose and Joey Dorsey to stop by the arena between trips to the strip club.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Skills are fine.
“Skillz that make millz” are not.
Basically, I don’t want thugs on my team (be they white, black, or purple). Calipari has shown that he doesn’t get it done unless he has players with pretty questionable character (Rose, Wagner, Camby, etc.) Iowa football tried a little of this for two years, and then realized it was more trouble than it is worth.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think Iowa football purposely recruited players with questionable character
It just turned out that they were wrong on a few guys. “Bonecrusher” was weeded out pretty quick, and I don’t think anyone had any clue what Dominique Douglas and CBI were capable of. To say that the football team’s issues were a result of recruiting “thugs” is crazy. Ferentz knows he can succeed without getting highly regarded prospects, I don’t see any reason to believe that he’d ignore the character of an individual just for a shot at more wins.
by The Mexican't on Mar 12, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
You mean Ferentz didn't just up and say, "let's recruit people who'll get arrested a lot"?
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
Of course Ferentz didn't say that.
But, we brought in DougEFresh, the BoneCrusher, CedEverson, Abe Satterfield, James Cleveland, Arvell Nelson, and whichever Prater it was. Eventually, you just have to say “screw it, let’s recruit that Karl Klug guy, instead.”
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
So are you saying that you knew all those kids had terrible character during their first year on campus?
Ferentz recruited players he thought were good players and people. To point out that the kids were “thugs” in hindsight is absurd. Ferentz didn’t stray from his usual recruiting strategy. These guys just made giant mistakes.
Now, in the case of “Bonecrusher” (I’m sorry, I can’t remember his real name), you could have made your point…if we were Purdue. Had he started at another school, been kicked off the team for stealing from his teammates and then ended up at Iowa, then your argument holds a little water. As it is, there’s no way that Ferentz thought these kids were dumb enough to do the things that got them ejected.
by The Mexican't on Mar 12, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
You got me...
I didn’t know these dudes would do what they did. But a lot of them did some pretty bad stuff, and some of them did it repeatedly.
Bonecrusher is Kyle Williams. He was a touted recruit who left Iowa pretty quickly and played a year for Purdue. Then, he did some really awful stuff. Check out the link below.
http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2007/06/bonecrusher-kyl.html
Yes, I know it is tough to predict the future when you are talking about kids aged 17 to 23. However, it really seems like we had a huge rash of issues around 2007 and 2008. And lately, the troubles have been less severe, and more about drunk stupidity. Something tells me it wasn’t all a coincidence. I don’t necessarily blame Ferentz, but he is where the buck eventually stops.
Of course, you are absolutely free to have your own opinion.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 13, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
The hell you say.
I am pretty sure I saw the following:
February 1, 2005
To: Football Recruiting Staff
From: K. Ferentz
Re: Life is too good
I have had three consecutive finishes in the top ten. Outside of a few minor incidentis, there have been no major disciplinary issues among my players. And, oh yeah, I am making more coin than I will ever spend. Life is just too damn good.
So I think we need a change of pace to liven things up around here. I think this can best be accomplished by thugging up the rooster a little bit. However, we cannot be obvious about this. You are going to have to do a little extra research. We need these recruits to have the skills we normally seek and appear to have the necessary character references. However, we must know that the recruit really has no desire to better himself either on the field or in the classroom. We should only need a few guys to plant some seeds to cause a crap load of trouble. Ideally, I think we should shoot for consecutive years of top five in the Fulmer Cup and at least one state-funded investigation into the program.
Let’s go get it done.
Go Hawks!
Kirk Ferentz
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
Well, there is the proof. I didn't think it existed.
But what exactly does it mean to be “thugging up the rooster”?
Also, when did Iowa football catch the dreaded disease “minor incidentis”?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
Wow you caught me
I don’t really proof my comments at work.
I shall accept my banishment with dignity
Ankles! We don't need no stinking ankles!
by three and out the kok story on Mar 12, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Your post was funny and creative.
I just thought I would poke some fun at the grammar.
Like I said above, it may not be Ferentz’s fault, and I certainly hope there was no conscious effort to push the envelope in terms of taking less-behaved recruits. But that stretch in 2007-2008 just stands out so much (for horrible reasons) in my mind. Then again, I suppose if I looked at the well-behaved dudes who were/are around from that time, I might not feel the same.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 13, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
I wish I could agree with you about Jacobson...
but, when UNI football is rolling, it rules the roost. Also, Jacobson is making just under $300k per year at UNI, and I would think Iowa would have to pay him around $1.5 million per year to pry him from Cedar Falls.
While everyone involved with UNI loves Jacobson now, that could be a completely different scenario if he failed to make the NCAA or NIT for a 3 or 4 years in a row.
As I have been looking at this Lickliter situation yesterday and today, part of me thinks that either Barta is an idiot in terms of public relations, or he already has made up his mind to can Lick and has selected Lick’s replacement. I can think of few other candidates that stand out as much as Jacobson has.
Also, regarding Altman: I saw his team play twice in person this year. It appears to me that the players are not quite responding to him like you would expect. I kind of wonder if the players figure: “He quit on us once (for Arkansas), so we will do what we want.” If Altman realizes this, and is as smart as many people believe, then perhaps he might be willing to start over in Iowa City. Now, add in the fact that you have UNI and Wichita St near you and they are rolling, and you have Bradley, Illinois State, Missouri St, all very competitive or getting there, then you have to wonder if Altman is looking for a new gig.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
Don’t know if Lickliter is staying or going. However, Barta can’t sell the mid-major coach twice. If he hires from UNI or Creighton equivalency, there is no fucking way fans come back in a meaningful way next year. This thing is a clusterfuck and Barta is in a tight spot. If I was betting, my money would go (with reasonable odds, not straight up) that Lickliter has another year to get next year’s freshman to Iowa City. That’s not what I want, but since when does my opinion matter to the Iowa AD? Easy question.
"Barta can’t sell the mid-major coach twice"
He sure as shit can if Iowa starts winning.
I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks
Mid-major coaches.
You know who were once mid-major coaches?
Lute Olsen (Long Beach State), Thad Matta (Butler), Tubby Smith (Tulsa), Bruce Pearl (UW-Milwaukee), Keno Davis (Drake), Bill Self (Tulsa, Oral Roberts), Bruce Weber (Southern Illinois), Bo Ryan (UW-Milwaukee), Ben Howland (Northern Arizona), Billy Donovan (Marshall), Matt Painter (Southern Illinois).
Unless you want to pay some name coach about $6 million per year, you will not be able to get Roy Williams or John Wooden or anybody who has been consistently good at the major level. Established coaches usually fall into two categories: legends who will stay where they are (Boeheim, Calhoun, Izzo), or guys who aren’t that great and have one foot out the door (I call them Alfords).
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
C’mon. My point was more about the doldrums the program is in and the shitty attendance than the “guy”. If Lick goes and Barta hires Jacobsen, for instance, do you seriously believe there will magically be 12,000+ there next year? Maybe late if they’re winning and entertaining, but presumptively, that will take more time. I’m too lazy to research this, but how long did it take any of the above mentioned guys to put a competitive team on the floor of their big timey schools? Less than 3 years in most cases, I’m guessing. And for the record, Keno is 12-19 this year, 4-14 in conf, 2nd from last.
Good points...
about how long it takes these guys to get things rolling at their new school, and about Keno.
I guess what I’m trying to say is: plenty of good (or even great) coaches come from mid-major schools.
And if Iowa hired Jacobson, and he managed to keep the guys we have and the new recruits, I think you would see attendance at Iowa games next year would start out between 7000 and 10000, and would probably go up to 12k 13k within the year. I think Jacobson would (and Lick might) have next year’s team competitive, and probably at least.500 or a little better.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 12, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
All of this assumes this is merely a matter
of talent and system coming together. But what if, just if, there are deeper systemic problems that are now becoming more obvious to Barta. Say, for example, that Barta sees that Lickliter does not have a real recruiting network established after three years or he doesn’t teach certain fundamental aspects of the game or he really just does not get along with players or even spend meaningful time with them. What if Lickliter was asked to evaluate his staff and he told Barta my staff is just fine (ala David Cutcliff at Mississippi) or Lickliter told Barta that when asked if he could be a more positive presence in selling the team he said, “That ain’t my job, that’s your job” and on and on.
I would hope Barta is evaluating everything down to the color of the towels. Because when a team sets a record for futility and closes out the season playing its asses off and still gets blistered in all but two of the final seven losses (after the team has been in the system a full season in other words) and season ticket holders have more or less decided that a 45 minute drive on I-80 is not worth the hassel, then you better lift every rock and frankly….if I were running the show, everything should be open to change.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
Sadly...
I tend to be mildly-impressed or at least OK with Lick’s assistants. I am definitely not so impressed by Lick’s demeanor or his recent comments.
I don’t necessarily think UNI or ISU have way better “recruiting networks.” They seem to get a guy or two every year from the same places (UNI from Minnesota, and ISU from Chicagoland.) Maybe that is a network, but I’m not sure of that.
One thing I do wonder about in regards to a recruiting network: the Hawkeyes used to have a coaching clinic once or twice per year where high school coaches could come and hob-nob with Tom Davis, have lunch, and feel like they were a part of the coaching fraternity. Does Iowa (or anyone else) do that anymore?
Also, does anyone notice if Lick and or the staff are out watching many Iowa high school games? Or do they just tend to do their recruit from the AAU camps, and occasionally from St. Louis, Chicago, and Detroit?
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 13, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
The word out there is that
Lickliter has almost no inroads with AAU and that’s his problem. Hlog and maybe Doc said he felt that was not the route to go and it has hurt him. Not my area of expertise as I don’t follow it that closely but they said Lick botched the AAU connections and is either now trying to rebuild or just has made that fatal error.
"I’m sick of following my dreams. I’m just going to ask them where they’re going and hook up with them later." M.H.
I've heard that he's made much more of an effort with the AAU folks over the last year or so.
Which has paid off to some extent with this recruiting class.
Obviously he wasn’t doing much with them at the start of his tenure and it hurt us dearly over the past few years.
"I want to be a cowboy. I don't want to be a panda. Pandas are boring, stupid and boring. Bad panda!"
I just heard the other day about that
The good AAU teams out of Iowa haven’t heard anything from the Iowa program, and they have some pretty good recruits coming up the next couple years from the sound of it.
It's not that I'm lazy, Bob, it's that I just don't care
should read "do their recruting..."
that phrase really looks bad the way I had it at first.
I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.
-- Judge Smails
by WaterlooChazz on Mar 13, 2010 8:42 PM CST up reply actions

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