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In Defense of the Manzi

Stanzi-matthew-holst-icpc_medium
Who you callin' unproven?

Earlier this week, Matt Hinton a/k/a Dr. Saturday wrote another of his typically interesting posts on the dearth of quarterback talent in the SEC and nationwide.  In it, he placed BCS starting quarterbacks into four categories: Proven, Viable, New, and Not Viable.  The Big Ten breakdown:

Proven - Darryl Clark, Juice Williams, Terrelle Pryor
Viable - Dick Stanzi, Adam Weber, Dustin Sherer
New - The MSU quarterback shuffle, Mike Kafka, Tate Forcier, Joey Elliott
Not Viable - The Ben Chappell Experience

Hinton knew he was going to catch some heat:

"Not viable" here is reserved for returning starters who were so bad it's inconceivable that they could ever lead a successful offense (see specific assignments for each category here; Ricky Stanzi fans, my e-mail is on the sidebar).

I don't need no stinking email.  I gots me a blog, mothafucka. 

Let's go to the blind taste test.  For your consideration, five Big Ten quarterbacks:

Player Starts Record Rating Yards YPA TD INT
A 10 8-2 146.50 1311 7.95 12 4
B 7 4-3 120.67 1389 7.27 6 5
C 12 5-7 138.09 3173 8.33 22 16
D 11 8-3 134.85 1956 7.70 14 9
E 13 7-6 126.93 2761 6.73 15 8


Two of those quarterbacks are "proven," and the other three are "viable".  Can you sort it out?  Yeah, me neither.

I understand Dr. S's need to put together a rating system for the post he was writing, but it's awfully goddamn arbitrary when Player A (Terrelle Pryor) throws for just 131 yards per start, puts up a nearly-identical record as a starter (with a far more talented supporting cast by Rivals/Scout standards, which we all know is gospel), shows no significant advantage in any other category, and still gets a higher ranking than Player D (The Manzi).  Even if you throw in rushing yards (which is a little skewed because, you know, these are quarterbacks and they get sacked and stuff) and calculate total offensive output, Stanzi actually outgained Pryor by 34 yards last season (and did this, which Pryor didn't).  The only thing Stanzi doesn't have over Pryor is OMG HE'S TERRELLE PRYOR.

Pryor-vette_medium
STANZI CAN'T WEAR WHITE AFTER LABOR DAY WHAT

That's to say nothing of the fact that Player B (Dustin Sherer) was lumped in with Stanzi and Adam Weber (Player E), despite the fact that he has all of 7 career starts, is behind Stanzi and Weber in every meaningful statistic, and is on a team that limped through the second half of the season, squeaking by a demoralized Minnesota and cupcake Cal Poly at home before being disemboweled by Florida State in the Champs Sports Bowl.*  If there's a separation to be made, it's between Sherer and the rest of the pack, not between Stanzi and Pryor.

I'm not saying Stanzi is "proven" or that Pryor is "viable"; those are arbitrary terms with plain English definitions that may or may not apply to each player.  I'm saying that any distinction between the two - or between Stanzi and Weber, for that matter - is skewed by something other than numbers (in fact, with two full years of relatively consistent performance that is arguably better than both Stanzi and Pryor, Adam Weber might have an even stronger case for "proven" status).  If the classification is based on statistical performance, those three belong together, whatever the label might be.

* -- I'm not going to quibble about Player C, Juice Williams, even though we all know that Juice Throws = Illini FAIL, because Juice truly is a proven commodity at this point.

Get it?  Juice?  Commodity?  Well, Mortimer & Randolph approve.

1 recs  |  Comment 15 comments |

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This is why I hope The Manzi throws for 250+ yards in an Iowa “upset” of Ohio State.

DO YOU HAVE PRIDE, DANNY?

by ReadingRambler on Jul 2, 2009 11:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

for the Trading Places reference.

by Bama Hawkeye on Jul 2, 2009 11:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Trading Places

I just told Graham that, in almost three years of blogging, I’m pretty sure that’s my first reference to Trading Places. And that’s a shame, because Juice has been quarterbacking Illinois that entire time.

storminspank: "Or we could join you can take our pants off."

by Hawkeye State on Jul 2, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh

very well done

by grahamfiller10 on Jul 6, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nail hit on the head

Juice and Clark are likely head of all other Big Ten QBs, but right after them are Stanzi and Weber. After them it’s a huge drop.

BTW – I picked out Stanzi from the list, do I win an awesome prize? Like maybe an access pass to Brewster’s Twit Page?

by storminspank on Jul 2, 2009 11:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Juice?

Zook’s probably just waiting for Clarence Beeks to show up and give him a playbook that’ll show how to make Juice look like a competent passer.

by WhiteSpeedReceiver on Jul 2, 2009 11:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ray-Bans? Check.

White suit and matching shoes from Burlington Coat Factory? Check.
Rag top Vette? Check.
Slight buffalo-stancing against the Vette? Check.
Complete and total douchebag? Check.

Somewhere, the “Real Men of Genius” guys are formulating a song to this picture…

by Twin Cities Hawk on Jul 2, 2009 12:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Like you were posing next to your own Corvette at 17.

Err, the Corvette of someone you know…

I got more rhymes than Wade Lookingbill's got dunks

by Oops Pow Surprise on Jul 2, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This seems to be Love TP Week

which, like, I don’t get. How, again, is Pryor “proven”? Was he proven when he fumbled the game away against Penn State? Or when he handed the ball off to Wells 40 times a game? Or when he was replaced at the end of the season in the bowl game by a guy who was unproven vs. USC? I’m confused.

Order your copy of "We Are Penn State" The offseason is long. So is this magazine.

by Kevin HD on Jul 2, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

statgeek checking in

no sack data in college so I’ll have to go with AY/A instead of my favorite (ANY/A), but it’s still good stuff. (

Yards-INTs*45+TDs*10)/Attempts

Basically how many yards a QB was good for per pass.

A 7.59
B 6.40
C 7.01
D 6.66
E 6.22

That's big talk for a little guy,
but I'm walkin' without reply.
-Lil Wayne "Mr. Postman"

by shake n bake on Jul 2, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Juice

Juice Williams as proven…

Where can I find my Stanzi is the Manzi t-shirt?

by TeamBrands on Jul 2, 2009 10:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Query

I don’t care about the list because it’s July and he’s desperate. And he likes a running quarterback. Fine.

However, I don’t think Pryor would start for Iowa. Seriously. Do you?

Pryor has the ugliest throwing arm and throws some of the ugliest balls in college football. Since the single wing uh, spread is so in vogue, the run-first QBs get the noise. Anyway, I predict 20 TDs and 2500 yards for the Manzi this year.

Mr. Boh Knows ...

by Bellanca on Jul 4, 2009 9:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

this is his experience

"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State." - Chris Carter

by xozte on Jul 6, 2009 12:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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