70-64: Well, Damn It

by Adam Jacobi on Dec 2, 2009 1:05 AM CST in Basketball Comment 28 comments

In some ways, it was Iowa's most admirable game to date: They jumped out to an 8-1 lead, kept their shots falling at a reasonable pace for most of the night, and hustled for at least 80% of the loose balls. And yet it still wasn't enough, not even at home against a team that may not end up being very good this season.

The final was 70-64, a score that's appropriately close in respects to how the game went. Though the Hokies had a moderate lead for most of the second half, Iowa was in striking distance for most and even led for a short while, at 54-53. That didn't last very long.

Iowa's struggles came in two main areas: first was the usual late-first-half power outage, this one manifested in a glacial 15-2 run by the Hokies that turned a 20-15 Iowa lead into a 30-22 Hokie advantage. The second was more discouraging, just because it was as familiar as it was endemic: the talent just isn't there.

Cully Payne just isn't athletic enough to overcome his total lack of experience on either side of the ball. Anthony Tucker and Devan Bawinkel really can't contribute much on defense. Matt Gatens doesn't make points appear out of nowhere. Jarryd Cole is still just plain frightening on offense. And other newbies like Brennan Cougill and Eric May are still adjusting to the pace of the collegiate game--an adjustment that most major conference teams would let them go through on the bench. No such luxury at Iowa when almost nobody sticks around for their senior season.

And yet, it took the proverbial dagger from Dorenzo Hudson--a roughly 700-foot three pointer as the shot clock expired--late in the game to effectively bury the Hawkeyes. It's not as if the Hokies were sure to lose without the shot--it turned a 4-point game into a 7-point game with under 90 seconds to play--but it made the comeback impossible. The fish was probably staying in the barrel; it was just a matter of shooting it.

So it goes, so it goes. At the very least, Iowa played well enough to beat about 10 of the teams on its schedule this season. Small consolation, to be sure, but we were pondering the implications of a 5-win season just last week. That's probably not going to happen. Oh, 4-14 in the BXI (or worse) might happen and would definitely suck, but I'd take 4-14 over 0-18, y'know?

All that said, this team's young enough that they really ought to show significant improvement over the course of the season. If it's not evident that they're learning anything about The System... then what's the point?

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Kudos for staying up late, Oops.

It’s hard to find much fault with the Hawks tonight. The turnover ratio (11 in 62 or so possessions) wasn’t horrible. They shot 45% from 2 and 44% from 3. Put those together, and it’s about as well as you can reasonably hope them to play.

But they couldn’t match up athletically enough to prevent VT’s extra offensive rebounds or to force enough turnovers on defense. What’s troubling is that if the Hawks can’t match up athletically with a team that probably won’t even make the NIT, where do you go to find wins this year in the Big Ten? They only get to play Indiana at Carver one time.

The Year of Numb rolls along. I don’t expect a different result on Saturday.

by Cattlefeeder on Dec 2, 2009 3:37 AM CST reply actions

I see some problems and some hope

I am seeing the potential of the Lickball and while I would enjoy it more if there were more chance of winning, I do see a system there that could produce victories with the right talent and chemistry. The problem is our talent level is not very high outside of spot up shooters, and thus our chemistry is not very good.

We lack athleticism for sure, and we lack muscle, and we lack strong ball skills. Of those three, two can be improved with time and effort and coaching. BUt it is clear that if we are going to win games again we need to recruit more athletic players.

The Lickball seems to need a healthy balance of guys who can hit open shots and a couple of guys (at least) who can really dribble the ball, pass it well when needed, but most importantly make a move with the ball in their hands. We do not have any players who can make shots off the dribble right now. We are all spot up shooters. Those kind of players carry a certain attitude that we are in over supply of…we need a slithery, take it to the hole guy with just some skills. It is killing me watch Gatens try to find a role on this team too.

While Lickball can tolerate more spot up guys than other systems could or ever would, we suffer from having too many. Cully Payne, God bless his itty bitty heart, is being exposed by teams who now know that his dribble into the heart of the defense is pure peacock—he is not going to take it all the way to the hole, so everyone is ignoring his moves in deep and he does not collapse the defense. We need a guy who can seriously collpase a defense as Jake did last year. We also coould use a legitimate post player…an Acie Earl type.

I think 9 wins would be fantastic to be honest. I can’t find them right now but maybe they will improve to the point where we can find them. Northwestern is going to bury us…I watched them play and that, my friends, is the team I wish Iowa was now.

"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz

by StoopsMyAss on Dec 2, 2009 8:16 AM CST up reply actions

Weep.

Northwestern is going to bury us…I watched them play and that, my friends, is the team I wish Iowa was now.

At no point in my life did I ever think I would be envious of Northwestern basketball.

>sigh<

by RossWB on Dec 2, 2009 8:45 AM CST up reply actions

I watched that game too

They looked tough, in all honesty. We’ll probably lose at least one to them.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Dec 2, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

I don't think a single Iowa player

would start for them.

"I think it's safe to say our concerns are many." -- Kirk Ferentz

by StoopsMyAss on Dec 2, 2009 11:48 AM CST up reply actions

Gatens would...

… and I say that as a Northwestern fan.

by Chadnudj on Dec 2, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions

But they couldn’t match up athletically enough to prevent VT’s extra offensive rebounds or to force enough turnovers on defense. What’s troubling is that if the Hawks can’t match up athletically with a team that probably won’t even make the NIT, where do you go to find wins this year in the Big Ten? They only get to play Indiana at Carver one time.

There are a few things that were still poor tonight — rebounding and defense, in particular — so if those areas get shored up (a big “if” given past failings, I grant you), we could be more competitive. But, really, our best hope for winning games in the B10 is to ugly things up something fierce. I’m thinking of that MSU win from a few years ago that was like 43-39. We’ll need some help from the other side, like them shooting Iowa-against-Duquesne-level bad.

The Year of Numb rolls along. I don’t expect a different result on Saturday.

My first thought was, “But it’s Prairie View A&M! If we play like tonight, we should be OK.” Then I looked at their schedule, saw that they have a relatively close away loss to Cincinnati and considered the likelihood of Iowa playing this well two games in a row… and gulped a little. So yeah.

Iowa Hoops ‘09-’10: Where Sweating Games Against Prairie View A&M Happens.

by RossWB on Dec 2, 2009 8:33 AM CST up reply actions

I’m thinking of that MSU win from a few years ago that was like 43-39.

Penn State – 38
Illinois – 33
Best game ever. Enough said.

Suck it, Illinois.

"I don't know. I don't know. [waves hand dismissively] First, you'd have to tell me what a 'BCS' is. I don't know."

by ReadingRambler on Dec 2, 2009 10:37 AM CST up reply actions

See, I like this team

I like Cully Payne. He’s a true frosh, and as OPS said, he should be learning the ropes on the bench. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have that luxury. Ditto with Cougill, who I was least impressed with. He lacks any sort of athleticism (which would improve dramatically if he would slim down and then bulk back up, which will come with time), and I question his decision-making.

That being said, this team can grow into something resembling respectability next season. Add a year of B10 play for the freshmen, another year of recruits who are B10-caliber, and I like where Lickball has the potential to go. The players aren’t there….yet….but I think they’ll get there. How quickly we forget that Hair Gel Steve left the cupboard awfully bare.

by imadirtyoldman on Dec 2, 2009 8:21 AM CST reply actions

I tolerate Cougill...

and if we keep him inside, learning to rebound and get in the way of drives to the basket, he might be serviceable by the end of this year or the middle of next year. However, if we are turning him into the great white Sam Perkins by teaching him to shoot threes, then I think we are in trouble.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Dec 2, 2009 11:37 PM CST up reply actions

By the measuring stick that was proposed recently on here...

…(Are we getting better every couple weeks?) I like where we seem to be heading. We did look much better last night than we did two weeks ago, and two weeks ago we looked “better” than we did in our season opening loss.
[By the end of the season we should be beating North Carolina, right? Oh, by the end of the season North Carolina will be too scared to play us? Well, shit.]
All joking aside, we seem to be headed in the right direction, and I’m appreciating the effort. We still have a long road ahead, but if the team can continue this learning curve we can still be successful in the forseeable future (as in next year- – which is sooner than anyone expected after the opener). The big thing is not taking regressive steps.

by Eyeheartfreedumb on Dec 2, 2009 8:33 AM CST reply actions

yeah,

I was the “every couple of weeks” guy. Do they look better? Yeah, in spots, which I would expect. Is there hope? not this year but I’ll keep looking for progress.

I’d like to see more evidence of Lick as a teacher – god knows he’s not a super-recruiter or media magnet. I don’t see fundamentals significantly improved (Gatens go left, maybe?).

I don’t see attendance being good at all, going hand in hand with losses piling up. Will the administration be able to weather the financial hit? Will enough progress be shown? It’s tough to start over again.

Side note: not new, but Lick is just awful with the media. Something about calling the problems with transition defense “a good lesson” just struck me wrong.

by hdhawk on Dec 2, 2009 9:05 AM CST up reply actions

The financial hit

is irrelevant right now. Well, not irrelevant, but there isn’t anybody they could bring in right now that would fill that place until the team gets better

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Dec 2, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions

Sorry if I wasn't clear

Attendance is something to be watched as the season progresses. I agree that replacing someone mid-season (if that’s what you are implying) would have no effect on financials (attendance) this season. It would also be monumentally stupid from a P.R. standpoint (and lots of others).

I would argue, though, that poor attendance this season, imparting a financial burden on the athletic department, would weigh into the decision to retain Lick for another year. I think progress needs to be shown, enough to give some level of “hope” for the following year. Don’t ask me for specifics on what progress or hope means because I don’t think there are any; only that the worse the financial hit for this season, the more focus on the decision to retain at year end, and if retained, the more pressure on the following season.

All that said, you could see a spike in attendance if a “name” coach were brought in for next season, a “pop” in attendance could happen. Sellouts, not likely, but maybe a spike. It happened when Alford arrived. And please, I don’t want to get into the Alford era, as it was a train ride we all lived through. I bring it up because it’s a relevant example that happened at Iowa. I would also not want a “name” coach just to solve attendance problems – that’s not what I’m suggesting.

by hdhawk on Dec 2, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions

And...

we couldn’t get a name coach right now unless we paid $8 million a year and promised not to fire him for 6 years. I can’t think of any name coach that would leave their current job to come here now.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Dec 2, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions

These Sally's

need to put down their purses and learn how to foul. They have given up way too many 3-point plays already. If your going to foul, foul.

Where the heck does Gatens go during the game? Seriously, I watched almost the whole thing and he’s invisible.

by salparadise23 on Dec 2, 2009 8:55 AM CST reply actions

No kidding. I didn't hear his name called once in the intermitent viewings my wife allowed.

by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Dec 2, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions

Basically just chilling in a corner the entire game, like half the fucking team

I’ve ranted about this before, but I really think this system is a bad fit for his game. He’s strong as hell, can handle the ball resonably well, is a great passer, and one of the best free throw shooters in the country. There is no reason for him to be standing out by the three point line all game instead of trying to drive to the basket to either create contact and get to the line, or get the defense to collapse on him so he can hit an open shooter. He can shoot, but using him exclusively as a spot up shooter is a waste. Especially since he’s incredibly timid and deferential to teammates, and often refuses to shoot unless he’s left completely wide open. Which of course never happens because of shitty spacing, no one who’s willing to drive, no interior presecne, and no one who knows how to set an even halfway decent screen (which, along with the complete lack of boxing out, is probably the thing that bugs me the most about this team. Neither of those things are hard to do, they just require a little fucking effort).

by NorseHawk on Dec 2, 2009 11:11 AM CST up reply actions

I am REALLY trying to watch this basketball team but....

I honestly cannot remember a time when we have seemed so far behind in the talent department compared to the teams we play. We are slow. We are small. We play a horrible Dick Bennet-esque style of basketball (mostly because we have to).
I’m in my late 30’s. I have lived through some decent Iowa Basketball teams (and was at the University during the HORRIBLE Chris Street tragedy)
I have never seen us look SO MUCH smaller and less talented than our opponents.
I know Alfraud left the cupboard bare. I’m not calling for Lick’s immediate dismissal BUT I do know this is THE WORST Iowa basketball I have ever witnessed. There is absolutely no point to this post other than to express my displeasure without giving any constructive solutions.
PS. Remember how Dr. T. would win one tournament game every year? Those were the days.

by HawkeyePapyrus on Dec 2, 2009 9:02 AM CST reply actions

Maybe I'm in the minority

But I’m not seeing the improvement everyone is speaking of. Sure, the score was closer especially considering this was an ACC opponent, but without the early three’s this game looks a lot like the Duquesne game. Stagnant offense seems to be this team’s main objective with the hope of hitting a 3 with less than 10 on the shot clock. Painful and unrewarding to watch.

The defense is mystery as is the sporadic hustle. The margin for this team is razor thin with style that they play. When solid D and hustle are lacking, they just don’t have enough opportunities to score. I don’t want to wonk numbers, but it appears that while the final score may be close, the game I watched last night seemed to be one-sided (outside a the two offensive spurts).

by Pubes in Pink Urinals on Dec 2, 2009 9:10 AM CST via mobile reply actions

Basically the only difference is that our threes were falling tonight

We actually probably got slight better looks against UT-SA and Duquense, but nothing was falling. I don’t know if tonight was so much an improvement as it was an regression to the mean.

by NorseHawk on Dec 2, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions

Is it the really long shorts deceiving me...

…or do Cully Payne and Brennan Cougill have the shortest arms you’ve ever seen on legitimate basketball player?

People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. --Bruce Bartlett

by tyger1147 on Dec 2, 2009 9:15 AM CST reply actions

Maybe Mr. Binns

can loan his arms out?

by salparadise23 on Dec 2, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions

It is true...

when they wear oxford shirts or cardigan sweaters, they require assistance to button them.

I’m just kidding. They might have slightly short arms, but I haven’t noticed. However, you will probably not see them do that “Wingspan” poster like Michael Jordan did.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Dec 2, 2009 11:42 PM CST up reply actions

The biggest win this year

will be if the team keeps playing and doesn’t quit. Last night was definitely better. There are flashes of offense. The lack of defense is just maddening, though.

by ChompSmirkWIN on Dec 2, 2009 11:52 AM CST reply actions

Yep...

we will be fortunate if we have no transfers, and nobody gets benched for life for severely pissing off the coaches or arguing with them.

I fear that Tucker might do something like that, though.

I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. I felt I owed it to them.

-- Judge Smails

by WaterlooChazz on Dec 2, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions

Improvement?

There may have been a little. There was some decent ball movement at times. And at least last night there appeared to be a concerted effort to dump the ball inside. Cole was 4-7, but I nearly threw my back out watching some of his wonky post moves. And I noticed we got a total of 7 rbs from Cole and Bag o’ Donuts. Jeebus. That can’t bode well for Big10 play.

by Bizryter on Dec 2, 2009 5:13 PM CST reply actions