If Shonn Greene is not invited...
by CUNKNNK on Dec 10, 2008 4:42 PM CST
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PrintIf Shonn Greene is not invited to at least go to New York and watch a Big XII QB win the award, I consider it a personal insult.
That would be about as dumb as:
Ahhhh...South Carolina...you make it so easy on us.
But seriously, anybody got any leaked information? The suspense is killing me. I know he won't win, but I firmly believe it is an injustice if he doesn't get invited.
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Hold the mass suicide, this might be a good thing...
Would this have been a honor? Yes.
Did he deserved to be invited? Probably.
Did he have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning? Not even.
And now…
1. he doesn’t have to deal with the distractions and missed practice time, associated with traveling to New York for an award he isn’t going to win;
2. he might be extra pissed off come January 1; and
3. he is at least one football related reason (however, small) to come back next year.
by three and out the kok story on Dec 10, 2008 5:49 PM CST reply actions
Jim Rome just said...
"If they can invite up to 6, then they should. It is a tribute to each player. It is great for a program to get that national attention, thus great for recruiting.
He also made the point that to say, ‘He wasn’t going to win it anyway’ is not a valid arguement…afterall, 2 of the 3 they did invite aren’t going to win it either."
I know you could choose to argue that and say then they should just invite the whole world etc. My point, and Jim Rome’s point was just that they are allowed to invite 6 (I thought it was 5) and they should. The player and the team deserve the exposure.
Go Hawks!
Relying on Rome?
About all I agree with is the tribute to the player aspect. The rest is uninformed hyperbole.
Sorry, I just can’t believe that many people are sitting around actually watching the show. And even if they were, less than 10 minutes are spent on each player. It may likely have been worse in Greene’s case because he was such an underdog. The national attention and positives for recruiting come in form of the hype leading upto the selection of the finalists: being featured on Sportscenter every other day and in all the Heisman montages on CBS, ABC, etc. Greene was almost (if not completely) left out of the picture on those, so any last minute publicity, would be minimal at best.
Also, there is a huge distinction between the 2 non-winners and Greene, in that everyone knows that Greene wasn’t going to win it. The same cannot be said for the other two attending the ceremony.
I’m not saying that Green did deserve an invite or that it wouldn’t have been a good thing. My point is simply its not the end of the world and if adds a little chip on Greene or the team’s shoulder all the better.
by three and out the kok story on Dec 11, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
Now the Around the Horn Guys...
Same arguments really. They called Shonn Greene, “that kid from Iowa that ran for 100 yards each game”.
That people, is the problem. Due to the BTN or whatever and the overall lack of exposure…they don’t even know his name. Crazy.
Go Hawks!
ESPN
Does ESPN still do a show with all of the award winners getting their awards at once, including Heisman? Because then Greene and Ferentz are still going to New York.
by YouCanPutYourEddsInIt on Dec 10, 2008 7:17 PM CST reply actions
I don't think so..
I think the Doak is tonight or next thursday and the Heisman is separate deal on Saturday so it would have been an extra, essentially pointless trip.
by three and out the kok story on Dec 11, 2008 7:12 AM CST up reply actions
Iowa and the Heisman have been--let's be honest--pretty fortunate.
I was at Iowa during Chuck Long’s monster season and I never thought he had a chance to get as close in the voting as he did. Bo Jackson was a monster. Everyone knew he was not only the best athlete in the world, the best pro prospect, he was clearly the best college player. He got hurt at the end of the season (before the Alabama game) and it allowed Chuck to sneak in there. Brad was a shock too frankly. I mean Carson Palmer was a stud in college and it showed in the Orange Bowl. I got no complaints on this one, as this award is a curse, and a media construction. Except, when Bo and Carson won it that is.
"I want to rush for 1,000 or 1,500 yards, whichever comes first."
- George Rogers, one-time South Carolina RB
It's a travesty
But it usually is. The Heisman, as we all know, is a joke of an award. You don’t get campaigns for any of the other awards, they are (at least more closely) determined by play on the field. But this one, it’s created by media relations and the world wide leader back in September. Sure, the order of the names change, but we all know how hard it is for someone who is off the radar in that first game to make any real noise, and that’s assuming that the team is doing well. Jesus himself could be playing for Memphis and it wouldn’t matter. They have 6 losses.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again now, the Heisman fix is simple if not easy; you have all of these other awards given out of best QB/RB/TE/K/LB/etc. Those are your contestants. Not 3 QBs. The best player in the game has to be the best player at their position. Unfortunately, this wouldn’t help since most voters have no concept of the value of non-stat driven position. They would actually have to watch game and evaluate the worth of the player to their team, so it’s not going to happen. But I can dream.
Damn straight
John Heisman himself was an offensive linesman. If he played today, even if he was the greatest OL ever, he’d never get a shred of consideration for the award they named after him.
It’s supposed to be “Most Outstanding Player”. I have some pretty serious doubts that the most outstanding player is always on a top-five team, and almost always a QB (rarely an RB, pretty much never anything else).
It's not a travesty
Bradford, McCoy, and Tebow are all phenomenal players who deserve to be there. It’s sad that Greene isn’t going to get to go, but you can’t really argue with the guys in front of him. He’s going to win the Doak, and that’s fine.
I wasn't clear
I didn’t mean to imply that all three of them aren’t great players, they are. But that only 3 players of the same position are the only ones considered doesn’t sit well with me.
by chitownhawkeye on Dec 10, 2008 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
And for the record
This crap about handing out the awards before the bowl games should stop too. Why eliminate the biggest game from the collective stats used to determine the best player?
by chitownhawkeye on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
They aren't the only ones considered
They’re just the ones who got the most votes, and they all had seasons that warranted that. I’m sure guys like Greene and Crabtree got their votes, just not quite as many.
I don't believe that
not really. BSD told us that A.Q. Shipley won the Rimington Trophy for the outstanding center. I think we can all agree that without a quality center, both the passing and running game will suffer, but I don’t believe for a second that he received any votes for Heisman. If I’m wrong, please tell me. It’s not a position that is heisman worthy, so it doesn’t get consideration. Is he a more “outstanding” player than Bradford, McCoy, or Tebow? I don’t know. I’m just saying that I don’t believe the voters do either.
by chitownhawkeye on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
Obviously, they don't consider non-skill players
Not really, anyway. Orlando Pace got a decent number of votes his senior year, and Andre Smith might get a couple this year, but lineman and other positions where the players don’t get the ball a lot aren’t going to win the award, unfortunately.
There are some decent reasons for that though. Those positions are a lot harder to judge from the outside, particularly since most of the people are writing about one team in particular and can’t watch all the games. There aren’t any significant statistics available to use to judge them, which obviously makes things a lot harder.
That’s different than saying they only reward quarterbacks though. Plenty of running backs have won the award in the past, it’s just that there are a bunch of QBs this year are having incredible seasons. With the rise of all these spread variants, it’s a much more QB-centric sport now.
"Those positions are a lot harder to judge from the outside"
And yet, at some point, they are judged for the award that they can win. That’s not a decent reason. That’s laziness. That’s saying, it’s hard to quantify the effect a lineman has for a team, but it’s easy to quantify it for a QB (or RB or WR), so we’ll just stick with the ones that are easy. It’s hard to compare the positions, because you can’t use statistics, but the people who are voting are supposed to be able to do this. I don’t care that it’s difficult, if they aren’t capable of making that analysis, then maybe they shouldn’t be voting.
by chitownhawkeye on Dec 11, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
Makes me feel better...
That Harrell wasn’t invited either. Most “experts” had him in front of Greene also, plus it wasn’t guaranteed that he would even be the fifth invitee if there was one. I am just as disappointed as everyone else because I believe he deserved it, but none of the other guys played against any team that played any semblance of defense I mean put up ridiculous numbers against Swiss Cheese de- damn it, I mean against Girl Scout Troop 110- Sorry let’s try this again. Bradford, Tebow, and McCoy played amazing all year, and one of them deserves the Heisman. I do wonder if Greene would have put up numbers like them though if he had played against the same defenses?
by shada's revenge on Dec 10, 2008 9:34 PM CST reply actions
I guess so...
Time to move on I guess. I understand, but it’s stupid to me. I thought they had to pick 5 to go. I think of it as an honor to be invited as a top 5. I guess really, they will release the final ballot totals, and he will still be top 5 anyway. I just like the added exposure and prestige with being an official Heisman Finalist. Y’know? I understand he wasn’t gonna win, and it would be a wasted trip anyway, but it still would have been cool to me as a fan. On to the Doak I guess/hope.
Go Hawks!
On Around the Horn...
Kevin Blackistone just mentioned Shonn as “the kid from Iowa that rushed for 100 yards every game”. Sadly this is why he isn’t going to be there. Just not enough of a household name for even a sportwriter to remember.
Ha. I was just typing that same thing up above.
This absolutely gets me so outraged! I give up.
Go Hawks!
Maybe this works out about the same.
Now he still gets the Doak, and he has actually gotten a fair amount of press for NOT getting invited when he deserved it (not as much as Harrell, but some anyway).
It might not be much less press and recognition for not being there as it would have been for having been invited and finished 5th.
Looking on the bright side. Y’know?
Go Hawks!
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