The Takeaway: Penn State
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 11, 2008 9:30 AM CST
in Football
61 comments
Sure, IOWA JUST BEAT PENN STATE, 24-23. But how much do we really know? What was really important about BEATING PENN STATE? What does it all mean, Basil? The Takeaway has the answer.
This was not a fluke. It was an upset, eight whole points, but it wasn't a fluke. A "fluke" would be where kicks were missed, passes were dropped in the end zone, or other wildly improbable, directly-scoreboard-influencing strokes of bad luck befell a certain team (and quit fucking whining, BSD, this is a penalty every single time). That didn't happen. Penn State caught a case of the Iowas and couldn't do much in the red zone, and Iowa did the most they could with their limited forays into Penn State territory. They earned the win, fair and square.
That earning, by the way, came in the trenches. Adrian Clayborn might have had the best stats on the line, but there isn't a single member of that defensive line who didn't come up huge, even against the best offensive line they've faced all year. Penn State was effective on the ground, and Iowa almost gave up their first 100-yard rusher of the year (is that a more impressive streak than Greene's 100-yard mark? Discuss).
Paging Dr. Awesome, you're wan--what? Shonn Greene could be a doctor some day. You don't know.
Meanwhile, PSU DT Jared Odrick was a monster. "Five tackles and a sack" doesn't adequately describe the nightmarish havoc he wrought on Iowa's ground game. Yes, Greene got his 100 yards, but he needed damned near all of the 28 carries to get them; his longest run was his first TD of the game from 14 yards out. That Iowa matched up as well as Penn State did is an awesome testament to the quality of the lines this year.
Stanzi is the Manzi. It was thought that Iowa would need to play a perfect game to beat Penn State, since Penn State never beats themselves. And Stanzi certainly wasn't perfect; his turnovers led to 10 easy PSU points. But damned if he doesn't have ice water in his veins when it matters. The week prior, he guided Iowa to 15 fourth-quarter points to tie the Illinois game. Now, it's two more scoring drives in the final frame, this time against a solid PSU defense.
Would it be nice if Iowa averaged more than 11 points in the first three quarters of their six close games (ISU, Pitt, just Northwestern, MSU, Illinois, PSU)? Erm, yes. But although he exhibits a typical inconsistency for a first-year starter, when he plays with a sense of urgency, the Iowa offense rolls, and that is why Iowa still hasn't really been outplayed yet this season.
It's time to give the defensive secondary a lot of credit. Yes, we have complained endlessly about The Human Torched, Brett Greenwood, and it would ring false if he were actually very good (he's not). Further, just looking at the most basic of stats, Iowa gives up nearly 192 yards per game through the air, which is a pedestrian 42nd best in the nation. So why bring it up?
Oh, them.
Because of the vaunted/dreaded Bend But Don't Break defense, Iowa's pass efficiency defense is much better. The Hawkeyes have given up just six touchdowns through the air all season long, while picking off 17 passes. The result is an anemic 98.46 passer rating for opponents on the season, good for 9th best in I-A. Oh, just for comparison's sake, Jake Christensen's rating last year was 116.9.
Sure, there's room for improvement. For example, despite the fact that nearly every one of their opponents has been playing from far behind for most of the second half, USC has given up two passing touchdowns this year. That is not a typo. They give up a paltry 128 yards per game through the air. But USC has far superior athletes, plus they let FS Taylor Mays have a loaded pistol on the field, and usually all he has to do is point it at a quarterback and he throws the ball away. Usually. (RIP Jake Locker)
The point is, save one moment of total horror against Illinois, nobody has gotten behind the Hawkeyes secondary this season; considering the fact that the team is better set up to stop the run (again, no 100-yard rushers all year, and none looming), it's safe to say this defense's yearlong performance, just like last Saturday's, has been fucking awesome.
Cheers to you, boys.
(Photo credits: Stanzi celebrating, John Schultz/QC Times; Greene TD, Andrea Melendez/The Register; Stanzi passing, Matthew Holst/IC Press-Citizen; AJ Edds and Broderick Binns, Chris Donahue/HawkeyeSports.com; Murray celebrating, Chris Donahue/HawkeyeSports.com)
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Viva Viagra
It doesn’t help that between these posts and the ScotHawk video I’m kept in a constant state of arousal. I feel like I need one of those disclaimers you see in the Viagra commercials. It’s been three days since this win and it may be time for me to seek medical attention.
Columbus Hawkeye - Not letting his superlatives run away with him since 1983
by ColumbusHawkeye on Nov 11, 2008 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Vaunted backs.
We’ve played vaunted RBs all year (Pitt, MSU, WI, PSU), and perhaps even against PSU, after nine games, our guy was discussed as the second-best back on the field.
However, all year our guy out-runs their guy. We shut down their guy, Shonn gets it done. He also has mastered the Jim Brown art of getting up slow. All the great ones do.
It’s a great win in a year that coulda-been. We need to crush a couple of teams to end the year, and we will be the best four-loss team in the country, and deserve a bowl against a two-loss major or one-loss mid-major.
With this kind of total control of the running game, all year, I can’t believe we won’t improve our ability to recruit more studs at RB, OL, DL, LB. No one will ever replace King or Greene, though. We get to celebrate them forever.
Footnote: someone got the memo on benching Shonn for a series. Jewel’s time begins next year, please.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
by Bellanca on Nov 11, 2008 10:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think
That if we had more depth on the line we would have had a much better shot at winning. Poor Odrick and his boys were really gassed on that last drive.
Maybe it would have helped a little if we’d called our FREAKING TIMEOUTS. Grrr.
by ReadingRambler on Nov 11, 2008 10:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The PI call
It’s pretty close, actually. The defender has a right to make a play on the ball, and he has position on the receiver. It looks worse live than it does on the replay. That tends to get called anyway, but I think by the letter of the rules it’s legal.
by SpartanDan on Nov 11, 2008 10:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
But no one cares to mention
The absolutely bullshit roughing the punter call that almost cost us a chance at the game. Since when is it roughing when the punter moves so that he kicks the defender.
by shada's revenge on Nov 11, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looked to me like "running into the kicker"
Which, if I remember right, would have been short of a first down. No way was it roughing, but it looked to me like the punter didn’t move into the contact, he just acted like he got shot once contact was made.
by SpartanDan on Nov 11, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that's probably the right call
Any time there’s contact and the kicker falls over, whether it’s “soccer style” or legit, you pretty much have to throw the flag. I think the 15-yarder was because the ref wasn’t in position to see how incidental the contact was. Sandeman was hardly trying to hit the punter.
Oh well, moot point.
AKA Shadow
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 11, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From a strict interpretation of the rule, it's close.
The way it happened, it gets called every single time.
AKA Shadow
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 11, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
Which is annoying, because it means that the defense is getting flagged for being run over.
by SpartanDan on Nov 11, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're a jerk, Spartan Dan!
(Nobody’s going to get the reference in my headline.)
Scirotto was hardly “run over.” They both jumped for the ball, Stross had better positioning (i.e. was between the ball and the defender, not the other way around), and contact came well before the ball arrived. That, in practice, is an easy flag. I don’t think Scirotto intentionally interfered, no, but were the jerseys reversed and no flag was thrown, PSU fans would be howling mad if no flag were thrown.
(and I see hawk6894 has made a similar point)
AKA Shadow
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 11, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure if the roles were reversed
most of the Penn State fans would have been fine with Greenwood leaping right over top of Derrick Williams’ back without a flag being thrown
by hawk6894 on Nov 11, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever. We lost the game.
HOWEVA, Iowa’s guard and center were tackling Mo Evans on that play. No flag. No matter the teams, I don’t think Big Ten refs like to call holding.
by ReadingRambler on Nov 11, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No parade raining, but...
we did actually give up a 100 yard rusher this year. The vaulted tailback of the Maine Bears, Jhamal Fluellen, had 104 on 21 carriers. However, I believe the point stands, that the D’s ability to hold the string of rushers it has faced since to under 100 is pretty amazing.
by three and out the kok story on Nov 11, 2008 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You do realize you’re trying to tell a Penn State fan to not bitch about the refs, right? You might as well be trying to convince him not to breathe.
by sullivti on Nov 11, 2008 12:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
As far as the refs go...
There were enough missed calls or questionable calls on both sides to probably even out. Lets not for get the fumble in the endzone that got brought out to the 1 yard line….magically.
by Argulor on Nov 11, 2008 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The PI call was not marginal; Scirotto went through his back. BSD posters are also unreasonably (in my view) fixated on non-holding calls on Iowa’s winning drive, although ignoring what at worst was a safety on the first PSU series, although Iowa came up with the ball in the end zone, saying, oh well, you scored, no harm. The replay official looked at that for all of 2 seconds. Still kills me. The majority of BSD posters are getting pretty philosophical about this game, considering. Not sure if the roles were reversed we’d be doing the same, although as Iowans our expectations are always hopelessly low below the surface. At the end of the day, all PSU had to do was catch a few balls and keep running that dumbass end around, and they win. They didn’t, and Iowa earned an improbable victory while I covered my eyes waiting for the soul killing mistake. Need to move on, beat Purdue and Minny.
by txhawkeye on Nov 11, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
They freaking tackled Evans!
Non-holding my butt! And where was the intentional grounding call on Iowa?
Let’s just agree that the refs were below-average. Both teams got plenty of favorable calls. Welcome to the Big Ten, I suppose.
by ReadingRambler on Nov 11, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I should have said holding/non-holding. Iowa says judgement calls, PSU says refs are homers, around and around. Poor reffing, both sides, its not the Pac 10 where always high comedy. Don’t leave DJK open on 3rd and forever, catch balls that bounce off your hands, don’t throw the bad int with an open receiver. Then we whine, and we’re good at that.
by txhawkeye on Nov 11, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not trying to blame this loss on the refs
My main point is that I’m getting really pissed about the crappy quality of refs in this conference. It’s not just our games. Look at that awful pylon call in the MSU-UM game a couple of weeks ago.
Or, look at Dave Witvoet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF-u6rQIfY
by ReadingRambler on Nov 11, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m in Dallas so am forced to see Big 12 refs — it’s no better. All conferences bitch and moan about this (Leach at TT went apeshit last year when they played at UT and a ref that was an Austin resident was assigned to the game = awesome), and of course you guys have the image of a highly comedic JoPa running off the field to kill the ref after OT game against Iowa a few years ago. Pissed or no, refs screw everyone. Beat MSU and shut those idiots up.
by txhawkeye on Nov 11, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You just gave me an idea.
OPS, JoePa meets Dick Honig. Get to work!
by ReadingRambler on Nov 11, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Something else brewing, thanks though
AKA Shadow
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 11, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't seen the play..
I heard the score and couldn’t bear to watch the DVR so that’s the first time i’ve seen that replay. Scirotto wasn’t making a play on the ball going for the interception and he didn’t jump through his back. The player jumped into Scirotto. Both were making a play on the ball so there shouldn’t have been Pass Interference on the play.
by psu1313 on Nov 11, 2008 1:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You can believe whatever you want about the rules
But I assure you that call gets made 10 out of 10 times, and you should be much more bent out of shape about the defense having no excuse for failing on the next three third downs. But whatever, scapegoat, right?
Bunch of fucking whiners.
AKA Shadow
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 11, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you have to be pretty ignorant to think that WAS NOT a penalty. slow motion or fast the penn state guy takes off stross’s head. stross was running the pattern. to say stross RAN into the penn state guy is ridiculous and grasping for desperation. that was an easy of a PI penalty as any to call. iowa, as team, the victims of some of the worst officiating over the years and IM LAUGHING at that as the reason penn state lost. penn state lost because of some wide open dropped balls and some very GOOD iowa d in the second half, along with the best rb in college football. and I believe they wanted it just a little more. I wish somebody, just somebody would give the iowa d some credit. for any penn state fan to whine over that PI call when the first possession is either a safey or an iowa td and the refs just conveniently move the ball back to the one was the blantant BAD call.
I have viewed that PI call over and over and ignorant is bliss if you see anything but a PI on the penn state defender. what a joke that anybody is even using that as an excuse
by kinnickcolt on Nov 11, 2008 2:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
to say stross RAN into the penn state guy is ridiculous and grasping for desperation.
Really? I’d call it “watching the film”. The defending player has just as much right to make a play on the ball as the receiver. Both are making an attempt to get the ball; Scirotto just tried to make his play a little bit further upfield. Contact is allowed if it occurs as a result of a genuine attempt at the ball.
It’s the kind of call refs make all the time – but a strict reading of the rules suggests that they shouldn’t. It looks like a much more obvious penalty at full speed than it does on the slowed-down replay, which the refs don’t have the benefit of using when making such a call.
(As for the first fumble … I was really surprised by that call too. The only thing I can possibly think of is that a PSU player recovered it, was down outside the end zone, and got hit and coughed it up again after he was down. Seems far-fetched to me, and it’s pretty much the only way that could be the right call.)
by SpartanDan on Nov 11, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
PSU player gets there before the ball does
by Bucketochicken on Nov 11, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Irrelevant
Contact before the ball arrives isn’t automatically PI if the player is making a play on the ball. Rule 7-3-8c, in part:
It is not
defensive pass interference (A.R. 7-3-8-I, IV, V, IX-XI, XIV and XV):
1. When, after the snap, opposing players immediately charge and establish
contact with opponents at a point that is within one yard beyond the
neutral zone.
2. When two or more eligible players are making a simultaneous and bona
fide attempt to reach, catch or bat the pass. Eligible players of either
team have equal rights to the ball (A.R. 7-3-8-XII).
Clause 2 appears to apply here.
by SpartanDan on Nov 11, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In case you didn't notice
I’m not a Penn State fan. I’m just saying the ones who are whining about the call have a little bit of a point by the letter of the rules. (Of course, there were some dubious calls going the other way too.)
by SpartanDan on Nov 11, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus, tell your mom.
The defender went through Stross before he could go up for the ball, knocking him down. Penalty. Every time. Every single time. It wasn’t a fucking jump ball with O and D fighting for access, like the rule supports. This whole discussion is stupid. You don’t have an “equal right to the ball” if you bury the other guy first.
This was a close game and both teams had many opportunities to win. Iowa won. It’s Tuesday. Tuesday? That’s three days after the game is over. Get. Real.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
by Bellanca on Nov 11, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
From an unbiased source:
Adam Rittenberg: Anthony Scirrotto was going for the ball, but that penalty will be called 99 times out of 100. Trust me. You can’t make contact with a receiver before the ball gets there, even if the pass seems uncatchable. I understand Scirrotto was trying to be aggressive, but as a senior, he needs to be smarter in that situation. There was no way the Iowa receiver comes down with that ball. An incomplete pass creates fourth-and-15, desperation time for the Hawkeyes.
AKA Shadow
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 11, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, not every single time.
Every 99 times out of 100 times.
Christ, they fucking killed us in the first half and now are whining about a penalty with two minutes left?
In general, I have concluded that PSU fans are too classy to so bitch. Did that sound like Keith Olberman?
Mr. Boh Knows ...
by Bellanca on Nov 11, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Olbermann it did indeed sound
With which I am entirely of an approving mind.
Good night, and good luck.
by Bucketochicken on Nov 11, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're a jerk milkman dan
is it the red meat cartoon strip?
by everloyal on Nov 11, 2008 3:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Get over it. Iowa did the country a favor by knocking out PSU.
Texas Tech-Florida FTW!
"Sweet lady fate, why dost thou piss on me so?"
by bluearmadillo on Nov 11, 2008 5:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The only good thing about that game is that...
…we’d get to see JoPa cry after TTU drops 50 on Penn Shhhhtate
"Sweet lady fate, why dost thou piss on me so?"
by bluearmadillo on Nov 11, 2008 5:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, transient guy.
Bellanca was born and raised and sold popcorn in Kinnick in IC. No, you wouldn’t score 50, because nobody scores 50 on Iowa. Your AirRaid shit is fine, (and worked fine at Iowa Wesleyan in Mount Pleasant), but it won’t work inside the 20. Iowa: yielded 5 red zone TDs in 10 games. Also, with the game on the line, we tackle people like Crabtree, instead of bumping them so they can run into the end zone.
But thanks for stopping by!
Mr. Boh Knows ...
by Bellanca on Nov 11, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, read my last post.
I meant score 50 on Penn State.* Also, born and raised in Iowa; attended Grant Wood Elementary and Southeast Jr. High, and attended games at Kinnick and Carver when Hayden and C. Vivian were still there. One of my fondest memories of childhood was 12-10 v. Michigan in ’85. Got to meet B.J. Armstrong and C. Vivian. Great town, great times, even though I was only 13.
- - see also, hyperbole and jest. Seriously, they’d only put up 40 on PSU.
"Sweet lady fate, why dost thou piss on me so?"
by bluearmadillo on Nov 11, 2008 6:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, has anyone discussed that bogus PI call at the end....
…..absolutely to fucking death yet??
Wow, in a game with a kajillion big plays I can’t believe this is the dominant theme of the thread. Just my 2 pesos worth:
If you go over the back of a receiver and make contact before the ball arrives, it WILL be called a PI penalty 100/100 times, end of story, fini, lights out and go to bed.
Is it fair? Probably not. But hell, HALF of PI calls in ‘modern’ football look as bogus as collagen lips. But in practice, what happened to Stross on that play WILL be called PI every damn time if the ref is even remotely paying attention.
It’s the same with the punter-roughness penalty. Touch the guy with his leg in the air=15 yards. That’s the way it is. Iowa fans should accept our punter penalty, and PSU fans should accept their PI penalty.
Because both are called that way EVERY FUCKING TIME SO GET OVER IT ALREADY.
If it's not too much trouble, search your soul--and then ask yourself if maybe I might have a point.
by The Director on Nov 11, 2008 7:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm just glad Stanzi is letting his hair grow out again.
Is long hair old school? Dunno, but the buzz cut this summer was hideous and made him look like a dork.
For his next trick, we will go an entire game without a) a timeout because of not getting the play in; b) a fumbled snap.
We do that, we win by 30.
Mr. Boh Knows ...
by Bellanca on Nov 11, 2008 7:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
yeah it sucks michigan state poster that iowa did what you wanted to do and now its all for naught. beat an undefeated penn state, run onto the field, be in the spotlight EXCEPT little ole iowa ruined it for you. thats what you are really trying to say on your post. the PI call is just an excuse for the above statement.
by kinnickcolt on Nov 12, 2008 4:47 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nothing degrades a fanbase more than whining about the officiating after a loss. Don’t bother debating them. The whining sounds louder and degrades them more when they are standing alone.
Yes, it applies to the Hawk fanbase when our folks complain about the zebras. There are lots of opportunities in every game to make a difference that don’t involve officiating.
by hdhawk on Nov 12, 2008 7:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
After the 2006 Outback Bowl loss against Florida, I was proud to be an Iowa fan and proud that we bitched about the refs. Why? Because the head of the referee office said that they had never received so many phone calls after a game about bad calls. I’m proud that our fan base is that passionate, savy, and not fair weather.
Seriously, who takes the time to find out the phone number to some main referee office and actually calls them and tells them that there were bad calls? We do.
by Duez I say on Nov 12, 2008 7:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I knew that game was coming
and one might say that game is the exception that proves the rule – but I won’t.
I acknowledge the belief-defying flags thrown against the Hawks that day. I could probably list them all from memory right now. You might say that seeking out officiating office phone numbers shows passion for your team; you might also say that it sniffs of desperation for validation post-loss.
Step back and look at it from an outsider perspective – look at PSU complainers right now. Complaining doesn’t change the scoreboard or the history books. Those who complain look like whiners. And those who are listening to it are patiently tapping their toes, waiting for the ranting to end, feeling embarassed for the whiner as they look more and more like a four year old.
I can’t say I’ve never complained about officiating and won’t ever again. I do think, however, it makes a fanbase look bad. We might agree to disagree.
by hdhawk on Nov 12, 2008 7:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see you're point
But I will say it’s worse when you complain about it to the other fans (PSU right now) rather than discussing with your own fans
by Duez I say on Nov 12, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I absolutely agree
with you that there’s a difference when complaining within “the family”. I think there’s a line in there, too, somewhere between officiating as part of a bullet point list of team / coaching mistakes and “we always get robbed” sort of thinking. That I can’t define. Heck, during a game, I can be really unhappy with the calls I see- it’s only when the emotion is removed over time that perspective can (sometimes) be found.
Also, to your point, some of the fury gets escalated when discussions get out of the family – like “can you believe what they are saying over at ……”. Then let the taunting and debating begin.
/ignores bsd link in main article
/changes mind, reads link to bsd post, notes that Iowa still went 46 more yards in 12 plays after the PI call in question
by hdhawk on Nov 12, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
northwestern
so tell me why when Northwestern beat Iowa by 5 it was a fluke but now when iowa BARELY beats PSU the better team one….thats rediculous nu should have beat iowa by 2 TDS an if clarke doesnt throw that pick iowas 5-5…absolutely bull shit
by nuwildcats on Nov 12, 2008 7:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Easy
Because it was just Northwestern – which by definition makes it a fluke.
Furthermore, I don’t believe you go to/went to Northwestern.
by Bucketochicken on Nov 12, 2008 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
northwestern
ya that my be a little hard being that i am 15…..and then y has northwestern beaten iowa 3 of the last 4 times and 2 straight times and should have beaten iowa last year
by nuwildcats on Nov 12, 2008 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Go back to LTP, junior
Nobody cares about just Northwestern here.
AKA Shadow
by Oops Pow Surprise on Nov 12, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't "a little hard" for Doogie Howser, M.D.
Wait, that didn’t come out right.
Oops Pow Surprise: "I'm stuck writing at the Titty Barn."
by Hawkeye State on Nov 12, 2008 11:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
northwestern
2 straight times in kinnick**
by nuwildcats on Nov 12, 2008 8:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You're like the little engine that could, aren't you?
Just all full of grit and determination. Except for the fact that you’re full of Greenwood. But that’s ok, it’s just Northwestern.
I ate the blue ones ... they taste like burning.
by HoyaGoon on Nov 12, 2008 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For gods sake
Northwestern? @ MI (L) and home v. IL (75% IL fans, 25% NW fans = L) left, then they and their tens of fans can take their 7-5 record to Detroit or wherever Motor City Bowl is played. They’re upset Iowa is mostly just embarassed about losing to NW. It sucks, but there it is.
by txhawkeye on Nov 13, 2008 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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